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kola@aalbc.com
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Post Number: 245
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Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 09:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK.

boxoprah

What did yall think about it?

PLEASE SAY WHAT YOU REALLY FEEL...GOOD AND BAD
OR WHATEVER

LOL

_________________

HERE'S A REVIEW BY A BLACK WOMAN CRITIC:

____________________

Berry's performance in Their Eyes is all sizzle but little steak
BY MELANIE MCFARLAND
Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Four or five times a year, maybe, television critics encounter creations that thwart all analysis, like wine dribbling harmlessly off stain-resistant upholstery. Attempts to intellectualize their highlights and flaws don't really matter, because they are critic-proof. ADVERTISEMENT

So, what hope is there in taking on Oprah Winfrey Presents: Their Eyes Were Watching God, a 2 1/2-hour TV adaptation of Zora Neale Hurston's classic, premiering Sunday night on ABC? Oprah needs only to breathe in the direction of a book, a movie, or heck, a log, to make the masses stampede after it.

Then, it stars Halle Berry, the actress often acknowledged as one of the world's most beautiful women. Her mere presence almost always wins the day.

For the majority of viewers, it's enough to know that Oprah, having sat on the film rights to Hurston's romantic tale for eons, insisted that Janie, Their Eyes Were Watching God's heroine, was the role Berry was born to play. Berry's supposed to deliver television's sexiest kiss ever, dancing tongues and all.

Halle. Oprah. Together at last. Remember: That's 8 p.m. Sunday.

But the truth is: Their Eyes is a gorgeous view lacking the emotional punch of Hurston's opus. And the flaw is in Berry's insubstantial yet overwhelming performance.

Hurston, a prolific journalist, novelist and playwright, has had a significant renaissance during the past couple of decades, appreciation that eluded her in life. Even now, literary buffs are unearthing new works. Part of Oprah's mission in bringing Their Eyes Were Watching God to broadcast television is to raise awareness of Hurston's place in American literary history. She commissioned Pulitzer Prize winner Suzan-Lori Parks to adapt the script.

But that's not the film's selling point. This is a love story wrapped in Berry's long, flowing locks. It's first and foremost about Janie's journey toward self-realization and her embrace of her spiritual and sexual self.

The story follows Janie through three marriages, focusing in large part on her stifling second one to Joe Starks (Ruben Santiago-Hudson), the mayor and part founder of a town called Eatonville. Later, she finds the love of her life in Tea Cake (Michael Ealy), a drifter who opens up Janie to life's beauty, joyful lovemaking and lingual wrestling.

Using Berry's beauty to illustrate Janie's intense self-exploration isn't such a bad decision on director Darnell Martin's part. The romantic imagery slathered throughout Hurston's novel blooms on the screen, framing the actress in every scene, even when she's covered in dirt.

The camera loves that woman, and Martin woos her with it to the expense of virtually everyone else in the cast.

About that kiss: It'll either go down as one of TV's most sensual moments, or remind you of two slugs fighting to the death.

Whatever. Oprah said watch, and we bet her legions will heed her.


Oprah
__________________
Here's what a Critic in Denver

joan

had to say:
________________________

Winfrey's star shines on "Eyes"
By Joanne Ostrow
Denver Post TV Critic


Like it or not, Oprah Winfrey arguably has done more to promote literacy than a thousand teachers. Through her brand-name clout, she's popularized not just particular authors and book groups, but reading itself.

The businesswoman, producer, actor and talk-show icon now undertakes to educate the public about a literary favorite of her own.

Zora Neale Hurston isn't a household name, but she will be recognized by a broader public after tonight's broadcast of "Their Eyes Were Watching God," under the banner of "Oprah Winfrey Presents:" and with the above-the-title prominence of star Halle Berry.

halle

"Eyes," at 8 p.m. tonight on KMGH-Channel 7, is a beautifully rendered interpretation of Hurston's novel; it is vaguely about love and marriage but more about a woman's journey toward awareness and autonomy. It's a chick flick in the best sense.

Berry is sublime as Janie Crawford, and Ruby Dee is a powerhouse as Nanny. The sets are impeccable - Eatonville, Fla., is re-created on the Disney Ranch with additional exteriors shot in Orlando, Fla. And the sexual chemistry between Janie and Tea Cake (Michael Ealy) sears the screen. Their smoldering kiss is one for the archives.

Promoting the movie, Oprah offered beachfront property in exchange for "a kiss like that." Beyond any pretentions to educating the masses, she knows how to motivate her audience.

Hurston (1891-1960) wrote "Their Eyes Were Watching God" in 1937. The African-American novelist, folklorist, and anthropologist was dismissed by the (male) literary establishment for 30 years and remained something of an underground phenomenon until Alice Walker championed her in the 1970s. Subsequent revivals, by feminists, as well as by literary scholars, have guaranteed Hurston a respected place in the world of letters.

More important to ABC, Hurston has a respected place in the world of Oprah.

Winfrey told TV critics that, with the exception of Walker's "The Color Purple," Hurston's "Their Eyes Were Watching God" is her favorite book.

Berry said she hopes "bringing Zora Neale's work to life will be part of my legacy."

And playwright Suzan-Lori Parks, who adapted the book to the screenplay, claimed, "This is one of the things that I was born to do."

They may be talking about a mere made-for-TV movie, but their aim is much loftier. They seek nothing less than to rehabilitate the image of Zora Neale Hurston and restore her as a great figure of American literature, for a new and massive audience, using the most powerful medium of the age.

Network executives don't mind television tipping its antennas to literature, as long as there's enough lust, love and romance involved to draw a crowd. Add a marquee name like Berry's, plus hip director Darnell Martin ("Oz"), and you've got a winner.

The film's language, like the book's, takes getting used to. The 1920s Florida African-American dialect, even in its moderated form onscreen, demands close attention.

"If we're going to translate this book to the masses," Berry said, "so that everybody can sort of get the message that Zora wants to tell, you had to change the language a little bit and make it something that audiences today could really latch on to and not have to think too hard."

Purists will argue that even the best adaptations cannot convey the sustained joy of the rhythms of the written word.

Hurston wrote: "There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and thought on sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought."

Television is often lucky to dip a toe into the basin of thought, let alone plumb the deep gulf. This production approaches that reservoir of knowledge, setting the tone and hoping the viewer finds "thought untouched by words."

In the end, if we're lucky, the telecast will send fans scrambling back to the less passive experience of turning pages.





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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 09:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you notice this:
_____________________


They may be talking about a mere made-for-TV movie, but their aim is much loftier. They seek nothing less than to rehabilitate the image of Zora Neale Hurston and restore her as a great figure of American literature, for a new and massive audience, using the most powerful medium of the age.




**I think it's a noble aim, but did they succeed?


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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 09:11 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Me, personally....I enjoyed the novel a great deal when I read it--I loved the feminism in the story and I thought the writing was breathtaking and innovative.....but I'm not a big fan of the novel, which is why I'm not really commenting on the movie.

I'm a bigger fan of Zora Neale Hurston and I consider her to be the ultimate black woman writer, but I liked "Dust Tracks on a Railroad" a lot better than the novel.



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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 09:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

THIS IS A GOOD REPORT:

Quincy


Opening 'Eyes': Winfrey hopes that story of personal revelation will also reveal its author to more people
Saturday, March 5, 2005

By Tim Clodfelter

JOURNAL REPORTER

LOS ANGELES

Many years ago, Oprah Winfrey tried to buy the rights to make a film of Zora Neale Hurston's novel Their Eyes Were Watching God.

"This has been my favorite love story for as long as I've been reading," she said. "I've loved this book, love, love, love this book. Other than The Color Purple, I've never loved a book as much."

But she found she wasn't the only one interested in the story.

"I ended up in a bidding war, and the price kept going up for this book," she said. "And I couldn't believe that somebody else loved it as much as I did."

She eventually found out that the rival bidder was producer Quincy Jones.

"So I called him up and said, 'Hey, we need to do something about this,'" she said. "And so we ended up sharing, buying the rights and the ownership to the book."

Winfrey is an executive producer and Jones is a co-executive producer on the film, which will be shown from 9 to 11:30 p.m. Sunday on ABC.

Their Eyes Were Watching God tells the story of Janie Crawford, a resilient young woman seeking love and fulfillment in rural America during the 1920s. The film follows her through several marriages, personal crises and triumphs.

Halle Berry plays Janie, a role that Winfrey knew Berry was perfect for years earlier.

"Halle Berry came to do my show 12 years ago," Winfrey said. "I gave the book to (her) then. I don't know if she read it it, but I was like, 'Take this, read it, because you're Janie.' And so that's how it all started."

Berry was already familiar with the book, having read it in high school.

"I love the book as well," Berry said. "It's a fully realized character that sort of starts in one place and has this amazing journey, and ends up really discovering what life is really all about and what love is all about. And love is really about loving self first, and then all the other love from other avenues seems to trickle your way."

The film is also a way for Winfrey to familiarize modern audiences with the works of Hurston, who lived from 1891 to 1960. She was part of the Harlem Renaissance of black writers who came to prominence in the period from World War I to the 1930s. Their Eyes Were Watching God was first published in 1937.

"I hope that, first of all, it will introduce Zora Neale Hurston to a reading public that doesn't even know that she even exists," Winfrey said. "I'm hoping that ... it will elevate her to the kind of stature that she deserved while she was alive. And more important than anything, I just hope that it introduces the book to high-school kids and reading moms and a public that probably never would have heard of her."

It took years for Winfrey to decide the time was right to make the film. To avoid a conflict of interest, she never selected the book as an Oprah's Book Club selection despite being such a big fan of the book.

She finally called Berry about making the film in 2002, the day after Berry had won an Academy Award for her role in Monster's Ball.

"I thought I better get in now, because I know everybody is is going to be calling her up," Winfrey said. "And I know it's a bold move to make to say, 'Congratulations, you looked really nice at the Academy, but could you do that movie I've been talking about for 10 years?'

"And she said yes."

Winfrey hired playwright Suzan-Lori Parks to adapt Hurston's novel into a screenplay and Darnell Martin to direct the film.

The cast also includes Michael Ealy, Ruby Dee, Darnell Martin, Lorraine Toussaint and Ruben Santiago-Hudson, who recently worked with Berry on the HBO film Lackawanna Blues.

Though Berry is now a bona-fide movie star, she said she had no reluctance taking on a role in a made-for-TV film.

"I think the struggle for a woman of color to find good material is still very present, and it's a struggle that I fight every day," she said. "It's hard to find good characters to play, that really tell our story and embark on our journey in a real, full way."

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april Mojica
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Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 05:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do not want to see Halle Berry as Janie, in fact I cannot see Halle Berry as anything else again except for her self. The one who was deemed one of the most beautiful in America, who is perhaps because of her mixed racial heritage more acceptable. She is the first black woman that I know of to be a comic book heroine. She is the Revlon woman, the one who after after a respectable length of time on the Hollywood scene only gained prominence and recognition from the academy after getting grossly gritty with Billybob. This is when she sold her soul, losing her mind, appearing on the newsstand on the cover of a glossy mag oiled, and essentially naked among the ambitious video vixens, and porno chicks that all seem to be in agreement to "give them what they want" to get were they want to go. My concern with Halle was that she had already gotten the award, she did not have to compromise herself in order to get what she wanted. She already took off her clothes, slept with the white man in front of everyone, and she got her promised reward. Yet she wanted to be displayed on the common newstand meat market, maybe to sell the video. Berry used to be an actress I could respect but now she is barely distinquishable from lil kim "It's all about the Benjamins baby." She couldn't be more opposite of Janie, a heroic woman. She was an unfathomable choice. I am so tired of hollywood pretending that Halle is the only Black actress in creation. She is over done, even Billybob had her
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 06:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK

But I've met Halle Berry and me personally---I LOVE HER SO MUCH. She's genuinely sweet and she's got SPUNK.

I thought she was fabulous in "Monster's Ball" and I didn't have a problem with the movie---mainly because I was glad to see Black Men feeling so betrayed and disillusioned (which how I USUALLY feel watching their movies and music videos---that ALWAYS exclude us), so for that reason--I loved "Monster's Ball".

Black American women, because they were raped in Slavery Days, have a LOT of hang-ups about sexuality, IMO, and they also refuse to use SOME stereotypes to their advantage, IMO. They also, in general, are Victorian like Whites and do not embrace the "sensuality" of their ancestral women.

One thing you're right about though----the White Media and Hollywood uses her Bi-racial image to make Black women invisible, just as they did with Lena Horne.

I still wait for the day when a drop dead gorgeous CHOCOLATE skinned woman with the face of Nefertiti is allowed to be movie sex symbol----GOD KNOWS we have millions of black women around the world who fit that description (Although media would have you think they don't exist).



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Anonymous
 

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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 02:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I loved the movie...especially the feminism that is potrayed in it
But for some reason i lost interest in the movie after the "kissing scene".....may be coz i was watching the movie for that scene
Did any one else have the same experience?

Ani
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asherah
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 05:09 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing about Halle Berry that strikes me, is that she is considered to be the first black woman that received an Academy Award for Best Actress.

To claim such a thing, I think, is actually somewhat racist towards black women(full black women).

Halfblacks usually like to call themselves black, while in fact they are as much white as they are black. They like to deny their white heritage, because it looks more cool to be black--like, 'look what I, as a black person, have been able to achieve in this white supremacist world!'

A lot of halfblacks like to use their blackness as an excuse for the problems they encounter in life, because it were those others who stood in their way, because they were racist anyway.

But, a person like Halle Berry, is obviously to me, a 'bankable black actress', primarly because she has white features which is in our world part of the beauty standard and women who don't apply to that beauty standard don't have the chance to become famous actresses anyway.

Somebody wrote: "She looks 'white' apart from her skin tone but considers herself 'black' for the purposes of accepting Oscars."

This is exactly what I'm trying to say here.

B.t.w. I didn't see that movie where she plays Dorothy Dandridge, but already saw pictures of them resembling each other. I just saw these pics again on a site about reincarnation, that explains why it would be very plausible that Berry is the reincarnation of Dandridge.

The writer of the article says: "Several years ago when I first saw an article on her producing and starring in a film on the life of Dorothy Dandridge, my immediate intuitive reaction was that Halle was the reincarnation of Dandridge."



And I had that same feeling!

Halle Berry has also said that her life parallels Dandridge's life—"being in Hollywood, wanting to be a leading lady and feeling like a leading lady but being in an industry that has no place for us. My struggle has been very much hers, trying to carve a niche for myself as a leading lady. And, although she opened the door for me, because she was never recognized in the way that she should have been, I'm still in the exact same position she was."

(But after Oscar night 2002 that is no longer true. Dandridge, who was the first Black woman to be nominated for an academy award for her role in Carmen Jones, may have finally won her award. Sensing the "longer view of life," as Henry Ford called reincarnation, it seemed to me so very fitting and just that Halle Berry would have the distinction of being the first Black actress to actually win the Oscar. In doing so she demonstrates the encouraging and illuminating possibility reincarnation offers—it takes as long as it takes and it's never too late.http://www.johnadams.net/cases/samples/Berry-Dandridge/)

>>I think that her desire to be a leading black lady in the business, might be the reason why she(her soul) has chosen to be only halfblack with more white features(and this desire would already have been there before she incarnated as DD(if it really is her)), maybe because in her mind it was impossible for a full black to achieve that goal? By whitening herself, the desired goal became reachable.

But, what about black women then?
If every halfblack woman with white features is the beauty standard and symbol for success for black women, then that sends a clear message; that being too dark and too black-featured is not beautiful enough to achieve this great success.

I think it would be right that she calles herself the first halfblack actress to win such an award, but not the first black woman.

In my eyes, her soul refuses to admit that she sacrified a piece of herself(choosing to be born half-black instead of fullblack) in order to achieve her goal(being a succesful black leading lady).
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 06:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Ashera...you're a WHITE woman and you got it, ALTHOUGH...I can certainly understand how Black Americans would see her as FULL BLACK, because of the way they were TAUGHT on slave plantations.

It's their "Standard"---and it's TOTALLY different from Africa.

But just imagine how shocked I was (not really) when FOX SEARCHLIGHT proposed that Halle Berry play ME and that only with her could such a project be "bankable".

You're right. It DEFINITELY IS an offshoot of "racism"----but because Black Men and Yellow Women support this type of racism and PERPETUATE IT; it's difficult to change it, and almost always---Dark Black women are portrayed as merely "angry/jealous" that they are made INVISIBLE by these images.

I truly never thought of BLACK MEN as the "devil racist" until I came to America--but they dont' see it.

Your boy, SEAL, would be perfectly happy if Black Women just ceased to exist. And I'm SURE that he would LOVE YOU and you and him would get along swimmingly. But don't ever bring that piece of shit to my house for dinner.










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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 07:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As well...I don't necessarily see Halle's features as being "white". She DOES have a black look to her features.



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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 07:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All and all...my LOYALTY is to Halle, and I do support everything she does.

I always go to her movies on Opening Day, just like I do for Denzel Washington, Samuel, Will Smith and JULIA ROBERTS (who I also love).

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Yvette Perry
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 09:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Come on, y'all: If Halle were going around saying she's "Caublanasian" or some such we'd be the first to diss her. BTW, what exactly is "full black"?

As for Seal, that brother confounds me. Just truly confounds me...
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 11:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL

Yvette, I met Halle. She's DEFINITELY "black-identified" and I really like her as a person.

What is FULL BLACK?

Well....for people like me and Nyibol who come from Africa....where there is no ONE DROP RULE.....it just means that you are "visibly" one of us.

For instance, my father was a White Arab Egyptian---but unless you get in my scalp (the roots)---I look ALL BLACK, so I would be considered "black" if I wanted to.....but in Sudan, could also claim "Arab", which I would never do.

_____________________

Authentically Black--the STANDARD.

Doesn't matter what country or tribe---but there is an Aesthetic to BLACK looks, whether it's a blue black Nubian....or a light brown Ibo....or a "red clay" Oromo...or a "yam yellow" Xosha. They are all FULL BLACK or "authentic" as we say.

Many Black Americans who are "MIXED"----are also considered FULL BLACK by African standards.

Such as...India Arie, Don Cheadle, Chris Rock, Angela Bassett, Red Foxx, Gladys Knight, Aretha Franklin, Michael Jordan, Toni Morrison, T-Boz from TLC.

But NOT Halle Berry or Africa's own Thandie Newton (who is considered African, but not "black") or even "Chili" from TLC.

**Notice that Africans would consider yellow-skinned T-BOZ a "FULL BLACK"---but brown skinned "Chili" a "Mixed Black".

___________

BEFORE COLONIALISM and INVASION....

The fact remains that in Africa, as Nyibol pointed out on another thread-----long before the White and Arab men enslaved/colonized us------Black People had their OWN STANDARD of "race" (race meaning family) that was linked directly to our African colors and features, all of which come from a MOTHERSEED--the first "race"---the NILOTICS.

The Nilotics are the "parents" of..."The Negroes", which is our third race (after the "Pygmy" race).

NILOTICS are (a) Charcoal (b) very tall (c) have thin features--skinny nose, full lips, high cheekbones (d) have African Hair, but in some cases, "stick-straight" hair.

NEGROES are (a)Black Chocolate (b)muscular (c)have broad, thick features (d) *female Negro is world famous for Large, High shapely Rear-End. (E) ALWAYS have "African Hair".

To be "BLACK" or "AFRICAN"----You must be BORN FROM an indigenous "tribe" (Black Americans are the BLOOD of 150 tribes), you must have a CLAN NAME (ie. Hausa, Nilotic (Nubian or Cushite),Yoruban, Bantu), you must have
"The Proof" (African Hair, "nappy")----and your skin MUST BE visibly of the African shades, not "mixed".

CHARCOAL (the Nilotic original:peoples of the Nile River)....
Nubians, Rural Ethiopians, West Kenyans and Cushites (Dinka, Nuer, Oromo, Mandan, Shilluk).

BLUE BLACK...Congolese, Gambians, Senegalese, Ivory Coast

*BLACK CHOCOLATE (The Continental Majority)....ALL OVER THE PLACE

CHOCOLATE FUDGE....Nigerians, Ghanians

DEFINITE BROWN.....East Kenyans, the Black Egyptian cattle people

Wet Wood Brown.....Southern Africans

Peanut Butter Brown....(the Ibo people, Nigeria)

LIGHT BROWN....(Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis)

RED CLAY.....("some" OROMO people are Red, some are Charcoal)

YAM YELLOW (think Toni Morrison and Redd Foxx, the rarest) (some Xhosha and Zulu)

Black American Scholars will often try to claim that....IN AFRICA, blacks come in all colors and textures......but that's a LIE. The truth is, we have many nations in the North where invaders have created Mulatto Mixed Race populations (Moroccco, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt)-----we do not socialize or mix and they do not consider themselves "black or African"--unless they're in America or trying to borrow money from rich Black Americans.

**Yam Yellow Africans have Negro features and African hair. They are NOT mixed and can only be found in the SOUTHERN African nations like Botswana, South Africa and Namibia---but they are RARE.

In Ethiopia and Somalia (two Blue Black nations), there is a RULING CLASS of MIXED RACE dark brown clans, mostly congregated in their Capital Cities---notice Addis Ababba. These people are usually my color but with straight hair and Italian or Asiastic features---notice the Ethiopian Track Runners who recently won the Marathon (they were blue black Ethiopians with nappy hair, skinny Nilotic facial features and that is what the vast MAJORITY of Ethiopians and Somali look like, but the MEDIA always focuses on the light mixed race brown ones).

A long, long Face and a large forehead is the standard look of a NILOTIC African--especially in Ethiopia and Somalia and Eritrea and Kenya.

The Mixed Race Ethiopians and Somalis are NOT "full black" and usually don't associate with "Pure Ethiopians, Somalis"....just ask Nurudin Farah.
___________

WHY IT MATTERS....

As the World Media is now trying to capitalize on our self-hatred and ENCOURAGE us that it's "better" to breed....AWAY....from our origins and our place of "Knowing"......many Blacks, worldwide, are being Ultra-sensitive to the fact that we are being represented by a Mulatto/Mixed BUFFER RACE that doesn't really reflect "our humanity" and especially not our "total experience".

This is like going to the campus at SPELMAN and seeing a "Black Women's Conference"----only to notice that every single black woman on the panel is yellow, red and light brown (which is usually the case) with a Kinte cloth thrown over her shoulder. All my life in the U.S.---I have seen this----where "dark skinned" males are allowed to represent BLACK PEOPLE, but not dark skinned women.

MOST Black American women are still darker than a paper bag and have African hair----but in the Media, the vast majority of images of Black American women are represented by YELLOW or Light Brown women, very often Bi-racial and Mixed Race.

From Johnetta B. Cole to Julianne Mulveaux...to Halle Berry.....to news anchors like Carole Simpson....to the WIVES of most black men who "married black"......there is OVER-representation of Light Skinned women.

And that is....racist.

As the reality of "colorism" continues to be an emerging TOPIC/ISSUE and as those who have traditionally suffered the most from it---dark skinned people ("authentic" blacks)---their is a groundswell of rage and accumulated hurts, injustices that is forming an ANALYSIS of just....who IS us.....and who is not.

Complicating this analysis is the fact that some mixed people, ie. Malcolm X (my hero), Barack Obama and Julianne Mulveaux (I love her!).....are BLACKER than many "authentic" black folks....ie. Clarence Thomas, Wesley Snipes and Montel Williams.

Race and Color.....DO MATTER....because it's been proven for a thousand years now that once people become mixed with White Blood---they wish to maintain that status and usually turn against the black origins, forced to shun it in order to keep their kids from "staining" the new skin. And as well....MANY dark black Africans are also reluctant to be bastardized by the blood of the invaders.
__________________

AFRICAN AMERICANS:

For Black Americans, this is a very painful and conflicting situation----because your slave master raised you that anything touched by you...is categorized WITH you, making it possible for someone who is clearly White (Mariah Carey) to be considered "black".

However, many of these "light skinned" blacks have gone to Europe and to Africa and to Brazil and found out that they are not considered "black" in those places. And in reality---genetically---they are NOT black.

Strangely...many Black Americans WANT/DESIRE to be "represented" by White-looking people......as if to say to their former owners, "SEE--we're just as white as you are!" So they fight hard to claim Vin Diesel and Mariah Carey as THEIR stock.

___________

Lastly.....WHY I use the term "Black American".

Because when Africans use the term "African-American", people often think we're talking about IMMIGRANT Africans instead of the people already here. So I use the term "Black American" for Clarity---but I certainly DO think of Black Americans (most of them) as AFRICAN people.

MOST still look African.









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Nyibol
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I haven't yet seen this movie but I was told it was good so I'll check it out sometimes. I'll read everyone's posts later and see what you all got going here. As for now I don't have much time.... later, God bless!
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cynique
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:02 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, you continue to persist with this color barometer. But actually, in
black-American culture, hair texture also emerges as a litmus test, and it is always what brings light-skinned people into the fold. It's a standing joke among us Black Americans that hair gives away people trying to pass as something else. Vin Diesel sports a bald head because he's got "nappy" hair. And I still say that if I didn't know that Halle was mixed, I would just think that she was just a light-skinned African American; she ain't even "high" yellow. Actresses Jasmine Guy and Lonette McKee are "high" yellow. Obviously it's all about perception and you see things from a different set of eyes than "we" do. You are not "us," you are "they." Your claims may have some legitmacy but they are grounded in "your" heritage, not "our" traditions. You want us to change our mind-set, but I don't need to tell you that although "we" are African, we are also American; although we are black, we are also white because all of us are mixed. We are a new breed whose roots are in this country. I keep telling you this, but this idea is an anathema to you.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique, I've already pointed out these "nuances" in my post above.

I don't see why you're repeating what I've ALREADY said. Obviously, you didn't read my entire post. And as well...my post was in ANSWER to a QUESTION. The question being: "What is FULL BLACK?"

Nappy hair or not, VIN DIESEL is not "black". You might notice that the JEWISH people also have "nappy" hair---because they come from CUSHITES, the Charcoal "chosen" people from the Bible who were created in God's image. Black and Nappy. The first Hebrew language was "CUSHITIC"---and to this day, Cushites remain Blue black and Charcoal.

I also understand that you are AMERICAN----just as I understood my children's dad Thomas was "Belizian" (Central American) and that some of my close friends are "Somalian" and "Liberian". Within each nation is a whole UNIVERSE of differences, folkways and mores.

Still, regardless of what country you are in or the "roots" in that country, You are still part of a much bigger (and more important)...."Bloodberry"----because we are ALL part of a people who were BODILY FORCED to leave our land and our indigenous homes against our will....OR....were tortured and enslaved IN AFRICA through colonialism. Our "blackness" is our only overriding PROOF of belonging to each other and our ancestors.

And LASTLY--I most definitely REFUSE to accept your slave master's color system just because it's all "YOU" know...and especially......because the White Man's color system BREEDS us out of our own bodies which is no different than taking away our language and our names. It is PART of his evil against us. The ONE DROP color system is designed to ENCOURAGE blacks to attain "higher status" in White Supremacist Society by MURDERING the genetic humanity of BLACK PEOPLE. It's just another weapon against Authentic Black People----that kills them.

So, we must begin to challenge it.








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Connie Bradley
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It doesn't matter than semitic people have nappy hair. To Black Americans this texture of hair is traditionally associated with us. It doesn't matter what YOU refuse to accept. You are are not one of us.
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cynique
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shit! I dont know who Connie Bradley is, but I agree with the post she just wrote......
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 04:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, Cynique...I'm not ONE of you.

I'm the GODDAMNED MOTHER of you all.

That's who I am.

And regardless of what you want to Hear, Accept, Be bothered with-----MY BLACK ASS is here now-----and if you can sit around licking on your White Master's shoe heel and nodding affirmatively to his EVERY WORD.....then you will damned sure be CURSED or BELOVED (take your pick) by....MINES.

So stick THAT reality up you Black American ass and just be aware....the PAST is gaining on you.

Because MY CHILDREN will not perish, you understand?

You and your White people can die together. Take your pick. But MY CHILDREN will not perish....because my children are BLACK...and BLACK CHILDREN are TOO GOOD to perish.

You understand?

MY CHILDREN are not "ingredients" for a salad.

I love my children.








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Lily
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 05:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

Females who were "adopted" tend to have a habit of mothering others.

I understand some of your points and even agree somewhat, but you can't be our mother. I agree with Cynique on that. Technically, you are not one of us anymore than we are Sudanese. I love you, really I do. But Cynique is right about that. I totally think you are right for wanting to protect our race as "your children".

I think you both are right.



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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 05:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What does any of this have to do with Their Eyes Were Watching God?

A young woman on another board said that Michael Ealy, the actor who played Tea Cake, was not dark enough for the role and that he has blue eyes. That was her insight into the novel. She said she got that from thumper's corner. She said her mother disagreed. But she also said that it was nothing that some contact lenses and makeup wouldn't fix.

When Samuel L. Jackson recently played the voice of Jack Johnson in Unforgivable Blackness on PBS, he used a generic southern drawl which to my ear doesn't sound anything like Johnson, who was from Galveston and had almost no accent, or something resembling a certain type of New Orleans accent.

During the twenties when rural African Americana was being presented on the Broadway stage, Zora, a folklorist/anthropologist from the South, reacted to what she considered inauthenticity or a misrepresentation of African American folk culture. In the '20s and '30s the classic blues had branched off from the country blues and classic blues singers like Bessie Smith were singing in front of a piano or an orchestra, classically trained vocalists and clean-cut college choirs were singing the spirituals in concert halls or at Radio City, and the hoofers on Broadway were often fair-skinned African American men and women whose energetic style of singing and dancing revolutionized the Broadway musical. First there was the black musical theater and the music of Will Marion Cook, who Duke Ellington called his musical father, an extremely accomplished classically-trained musician and composer who was creating a new kind of African American music. Jazz culture was at its height in the '20s and incidentally there are two essays in the 1925 Survey Graphic Harlem Number (written by J.A. Rogers and Alain Locke which, as I recall, both describe African American jazz music as containing about the same percentage "African American,' in other words, neither man saw it as either a purely African American or folk music because it had other obvious influences). BTW, the same issue contains a piece by Walter White, "Color Lines," which describes skin tone prejudice of the Garveyite variety. Garvey called W.E.B. Du Bois a half-breed, etc. Zora sided with Du Bois and ridiculed Garvey. Someone brought up Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? If Spencer Tracy's character were a Klansman who didn't want his daughter marrying Sidney Poitier, Garvey would have agreed with him.

I think Kevin Boyle says in his book that in 1925 about sixty percent of African Americans still lived in the South. For her production called From Sun to Sun, Zora presented what she called authentic folklore which involved singing, dancing, and performers who had a certain appearance based on skin color. But these were not professional dancers or musicians, I think her idea was to train people to perform the musicals she had conceived, and she submitted an application for a Guggenheim which proposed an African American school of music to include drummers from Senegal, etc. That's cool, but in the '30 when the great jazz drummers included Baby Dodds, Chick Webb, Sonny Greer, et al., they were doing something completely original. And Talented Tenthers like Duke Ellington, Jimmy Lunceford, Fletcher Henderson, and Coleman Hawkins, were not apologetic about their European musical influences, many of them were college educated musicians.

So I see Tea Cake more in terms of Zora's folkloric ideals and of course, he's a romantic character. Her other two husbands were not bad men but I think they symbolize the politics of respectability and the bourgeois values that were associated with the middle-class during the era of the Harlem Renaissance and beyond.

that's my opinion.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 05:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous, I agree with you about "TeaCake".

But...

Garvey called DuBOIS a "half-Breed".....[AFTER] Dubois called him an ugly "monkey" for questioning the fact that there were no BLACKS in the original NAACP, only "octoroons", "mulattos" and one or two light brown people. Garvey was RIGHT to question him and Garvey was more true to Black People, whereas DuBois was the product of the Plantation-Thinking Black talking about "WE" and maintaining the BUFFER STATUS of "colored" people.....and much later, when DuBois went to GHANA to live (with his white-looking black wife) and wouldn't associate with the BLACKS unless it was a Photo Op and was "embarrassed" by the caravans of topless African women going to market each day---he proved GARVEY's admonitions correct.

Walter White was another elitist Octoroon who, like Oscar Micheaux, felt that the ANSWER to racism was for everyone to become "mulatto or octoroon". He was another Kiss-Ass cloaking himself in the "souls of black folk"---but every bit a part of the Blue Veins. I don't know HOW black people called D.W. Griffith a "racist" filmmaker----and then went to see the films made by Oscar Micheaux, which as a dark black woman, I find far more hateful against blacks (real blacks) than "Birth of a Nation".

JEAN TOOMER is the only mixed race person from that period, in my opinion, who TRULY loved and appreciated the Humanity of BLACK black PEOPLE...although he realized that he himself was not "black", and therefore, did not attempt to RULE OVER them, but wrote lovingly ("CANE") about their humanity, beauty and worth. In his work, the black people were actually BLACK......and that was revolutionary. He remains THE ONLY black writer Pre-1960's to write about the "physical beauty" of Dark Skinned Woman.

And then came MALCOLM X, a high yellow African KING who finally stood for ALL black people. To this day, in Sudan, the black people love...Aumo Ko ("Red Rooster"), which is what we calm MALCOLM.
All over the continent, he is called "Our Son".

Because he TRULY loved his black people.


















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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 05:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lily, I appreciated your post.

Thank you.


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cynique
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Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 12:24 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, dispense with all the hystrionics, Kola Boof. You are such a loose cannon. You are also in denial, and I don't mean that river in Egypt, although that's actually where you should be. Face it. The handwriting is on the wall. Your day is over. You ain't no more my momma than the descendants of an Indian squaw or a white plantation mistress are. I am who I am. I reject your ideology and have no qualms about doing so. plus, you aren't the only person in the world who has children. I have children, too, and grandchildren and all of your grandiose designs to make black America over in your image are not on their agenda. Sorry.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 05:26 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Face it. The handwriting is on the wall. Your day is over.

__________

Did you have your hands on your hips and PollySeeds in your mouth while uttering this bit of bile, Cynique?

You go right ahead and be as HARD HEADED as you want to be. But the fact remains, I KNOW WHAT TO DO....and your arrogant "this decade I'm African-American" ass DON'T.

And it will come out in the wash. Because the fact remains that I stand for something...and YOU...don't know how to stand.

I could give a shit about "ideology".

What about LOVE and SELF-RESPECT?

My will is that black people develop the courage and integrity to survive as THEMSELVES and don't succumb to the wandering that mothers like you produce, because the image of your slave master is the only PATTERN you know how to sew.

I have no doubt that MANY Black Americans don't like what I have to say...one bit.

But just like Martin Luther King had a dream....I, too, have a dream. And my dream is that you WAKE THE FUCK UP!

And I shall die telling your goddamned asses exactly that. Because you came out of MY BLACK ASS--I didn't come out of YOURS!

What kind of MOTHER doesn't leave a plan and an agenda for her own children???

It's the MOTHER who teaches the children how to make generations, Cynique.

It's the MOTHER who gives birth to the future and she does it ON PURPOSE and with a DESIGN.

That is why...she is the mother.

I don't know what else you expect from me. But I am not some weak, inexperienced sheep waiting for the T.V. to validate my livingroom decorations.

I know exactly what I'm doing and I'm doing it right.














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asherah
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Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 06:58 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WOW
we have some overheated discussions going on here!

Well, I agree with Lily here.

I understand Kola's anger, because I recognise myself in her way of reacting to certain issues.

But like Cynique, I don't like to feel like I am your baby, as I read you said once, that whites come out of your ass too..

This makes me feel again like how men probably used to feel in comparision with women and where for a great deal their fear for women stems from.

In a sense I understand you and your anger about this, and probably all races(except the Aboriginals, but they probably used to be 'African' too, as all continents used to be 1 continent) are a mutated race of the African race, but that happened already looong way ago.

It's something though, that racists can reflect on to bring up more respect for Africans and Blacks in general.

But when saying that everyone comes out of YOUR ass, you create a new hierarchy, that isn't justified either.

Besides, because I believe in reincarnation, the issue of who came out of who is very relative to me.

About SEAL: I did some googling to find out if he really is a racist, but when you first said about him being a hypocrite and hating his mother, I intuitively felt that he was not like that, and maybe he had a bad relationship or was even abused by his mother and disliked her for that reason.

I'm not sure of that offcourse, but apparently he has been abused by his biological father after his Nigerian mother left him behind with his father, because she went back to her country. So, maybe that's why he didn't go to her funeral?

http://famous.adoption.com/famous/seal.html

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cynique
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Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 12:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, ashera! I believe in reincarnation, too, and I'm sure I'll get it exactly right the next time around.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 12:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I didn't say SEAL was "racist"---I said he was "colorist" and an asshole, which HE IS.

And I since his father was BEATING and ABUSING his mother, I wonder just how much power she had to take her son with her back to Nigeria---and especially when the father was training the child to disrespect the mother?

And why didn't he grow up and use his fame and power to redeem his mother?

Not to mention---SEAL, too, has been accused of ABUSING (hitting) women.

______________

As for the rest of what I had to say....I'm not uttering another word.




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asherah
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Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 01:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah Cynique, I even believe that this life is my last on earth!


Kola, I never read that of SEAL abusing women..

if you have the link of an online article about it, I'd like to read it
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Nyibol
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Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 12:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*Shakes head* The same white man whom treated your ancestors like shit is the same white man you people want to be like? Kola, after all you're just one woman, and obviously there's nothing you can do about some people disagreeing with you here. Still, you've won this debate and I'm sure there's many black people out there as me who agree with you.

There's many black people out there who loves black nature and black people. We're absolutely very beautiful. But it's very sad to see that only a mixed child like you and Halle Berry see racism still exists. I'm sure you two agree on this issue. Don't you worry one bit. There's just nothing you can do about people like cynque, she's very ignorant and refuses to change and see good. Martin Luther King's dream wasn't for black people to make a full of themselves, but to actually stand up for themselves. Cynque doesn't realize that white people still don't want black people! Only a mixed child is able to see that because the mixed child finds herself treated better than a dark child.

Black people will always exist and accepted if there was more people like Kola fighting for them and not people like Cynque whom her goal is to completely errase them.
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cynique
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Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 01:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've heard all of this before, and none of it appplies to me, because I certainly know that racism exists, and I do not suck up to white people. Furthermore, unlike you and Kola, I am not on a crusade, and I speak only for myself. I don't pretend to know how all black people feel or what all white ones think because I realize the danger of making generalizations. So press on with your quest to paint the world with your brush, and lotsa luck.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 07:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Ladies,

Sorry I was gone, but they've been filming me for my documentary.

I have to lose 10 pounds and have them re-shoot everything we did this weekend, because I hate how I look in the footage.

Never thought I'd say this, but: "I have too much booty".

I'm singing better, although still nervous about all the dialect switches---and hoping people will realize that I'm a WRITER and not a professional singer or trying to be. But it's important to capture this Nilotic music.

NYIBOL...thanks for taking up for me and with such vigor.

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asherah
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 10:59 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Kola,

I just read that email I received from you(I have several emailadresses so was a bit late to read this one) to tape me for showing support for your DVD, but..I don't have a video camera, so sorry if I can't contribute.

Why do you have to lose weight?

African men love big booties, don't they? ;)

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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ashera, I already stated why:

I have to lose 10 pounds and have them re-shoot everything we did this weekend, because I hate how I look in the footage.

____________

No offense, but I'm not interested in what men think about my booty----I'm interested in what "I" think.

I have to sing a fast song at the event where I will have a lot of cleavage---add the caboose and I look like a video HO (even with the gorgeous gown). Proportion is important IMO.

I need to lose 10 pounds so that I can look more streamlined and because....the camera adds 15 to 20 pounds anyway. My problem is that my face looks better with weight---but my body looks fat and out of shape.

I'm a public figure now, so I am ALWAYS concerned with my image, and especially since people who hate me have doctored/changed around photos of me to make me look unattractive.

Obviously, if I'm committing to a full DVD documentary---then I want to look good. The director is a German white guy and he's creating his own version of "Kola Boof"---which has caused us to fight very badly, but now that I've seen footage of what he's trying to achieve with atmosphere and the flowing silk robes---I'm in agreement with his vision. I may even give in and wear one of the wigs he wants me to wear.

He sees me as a Marlene Dietrich---eccentric, glamorous and feisty.

We're shooting Kola's entrance on the "Grand Staircase" wearing a silk robe this Wednesday (the staircase is like the one from Gone W the Wind--it's at a Funeral Home in Beverly Hills).

I refused to have a "maid" and I refused to wear any jewelry (I hate jewelry ON ME and my ears are not pierced).

I walked 6 miles last night, and it won't be long before I slim down.

I was VERY skinny for most of my life, so being "voluptuous" after having kids is trying for me. I'm still not comfortable with it. I also come from a culture where women are VERY THIN. We are not "West Africans" or "Central" or "Southern Africans" who revere the Coke-bottle shape with the big ass, which is a West African trait their women made famous. Nilotic people are VERY tall and skinny with long heads and sharp features.

So that is always my vision of what I'm supposed to look like.








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wonderboy19
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had a serious problem with the movie. If you saw it, you know why it had to be written about.

Here is an article about Oprah's "Their Eyes Were Watching God."

Watchers and Witnesses: Oprah, Zora and James
by Max Gordon
March 13, 2005

Sending a television production of Their Eyes Are Watching God like this into the world is like saying to a black child, the night before her first day at an all white school: “Now, don’t worry, Baby, Mama knows everyone is going to like you for who you are. But just in case, we’re gonna lighten your hair tonight and I bought you these blue contacts. You want to be popular, don’t you?”


http://watchersandwitnesses.blogspot.com
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 01:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WonderBoy,

Thanks for posting that!!

I agreed with almost everything Max Gordon wrote---and I felt very sad about Oprah's production of the novel. It was truly awful and continued the "colorism" present in the MUSIC VIDEO world and the general "mulatto follies" that several scholars have written about.

My only "annoyance" with the REVEW was how he kept writing about the treatment of Dark Skinned black men in movies/media------and never once mentioned that Dark Skinned black WOMEN are virtually invisible and non-existant.

Unless they are shown as unattractive shrews, Maids or Prostitutes.

There is no Black-skinned female version of Taye Diggs, Wesley Snipes, Morris Chestnut, Sidney Poitier....just to name a few of the ENDLESS dark skinned black MALES that are visible in the media (MANY OF WHOM are fully responsible for the images of themselves that are crafted). The closest thing we have to a dark beauty film image is Angela Bassett, and not even she is REALLY dark in the way that natural African dark beauties are dark.

It isn't ALLOWED---and the main objections to these women being portrayed usually come from Dark Black Men.

So I hated how he whined over TeaCake being "lightskinned".... as though we aren't constantly bombarded with images of Dark Black Men paired with Mulatto women----as if that's any more "AFRICAN" than Halle Berry and Michael Ely's pairing.

And almost ALWAYS....dark black men are paired with mulatto, bi-racial and light brown women...which is why I often don't watch Black American movies.

I prefer the films of Ousmane Sembene---the Father of African cinema---who, by the way, would have done WONDERS with "Their Eyes Were Watching God". He would have done it just as Zora felt it.





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cynique
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am always amused at how noble and above reproach you "color enlightened" people are. Like if you were in power and had control, you would be different from those you excoriate. Not! You'd be guilty of the same discrimination you claim you are being subjected to. You would favor the only color you deem to be worthy, and kick anybody of a lighter hue to the curb. Self image in the name of the game when it comes to aesthetics, just like profit is the name of the game when it comes to a product. Furthermore, who can deny that success is not also about giving people what they want? Unlike the vocal minority, the average person isn't sophisticated enough to process all of the intellectual rhetoric about societal implications and manipulated images and subliminal racists messsages, blah, blah, blah. All they want is to be entertained. That's why they have flocked to see "The Diary of A Mad Black Woman," a film scripted and directed by black men who have their fingers on the pulse of their huge targeted audience. What color was the lead actress in this movie, and was the Madear chacter anything other than a shameless caricature of a strong black woman - loved and defended by her legion fans?? Sooo, instead of all of your rants, why don't you dissenters go on a crusade to bring together like-minded people and raise money and pool resources in order to form production companies to showcase the kind of images you are comfortable with. Become competitive. Do your own thing!
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Anonymous
 

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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 06:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Isn't this more about sexual stereotypes of black women and a kind of prudishness rather than color? I don't know much about Dorothy Dandridge except that she was one of the so-called sepia chanteuses descended from Billie Holiday: Lena Horne, Abbey Lincoln, Diahann Carroll, et al. By the way, what do you think of Billie Holiday? What about Lester Young? Cindy Blackman? I'm just surprised to be hearing this on an African American board, a literature board too, and by the moderator, no less.

What do you think of Salif Keita? He was born an albino which I think was considered a curse, and his father disowned him. Oh, and Zakes Mda's novel, The Madonna of Excelsior (which begins and ends with the sentence "All these things flow from the sins of our mother," describes the abusive treatment heaped upon little Popi, a light-complexioned, blue eyed girl (and there's another similarly ostracized girl, who plays as a street musician), called morwa - coloured, boesman - bushman, a hotnot girl (khoikhoi?), a misis - white woman, etc. But by the novel's end she comes into her own.

Dandridge's vocals in the movie version of Carmen Jones were overdubbed by a white opera singer Marilyn Horne (and Horne, incidentally, was considered to have more of a "black" timbral quality to her voice, though not a stylistic distinction like, for instance, Aretha's soul rendition of Puccini's Nessun Dorma). It was the sexuality she brought to the role that convinced -- I think it was Preminger -- to hire her. Diahann Carroll appeared in an ingenue role in the film but she didn't have that kind of sexuality, it wasn't about her skin tone. Isn't it a bit of a double standard to not mention that she was paired opposite Belafonte in the movie? Max Roach also had a part, although I don't remember if Abbey Lincoln. But you see, Carroll and Lincoln were similar in the fact that both were originally nightclub singers and then Lincoln met Roach and became ideologically more acceptable, while Carroll and others were viewed as accomodationist. Doesn't it matter more anyway how you come down as an individual rather than how you look? i just don't understand that.

For the Dandridge movie, Walter White (himself a blond-haired, blue-eyed African American -- like his biographer Kenneth Janken??) was asked to address potential concerns of the African American community's response to the film. His position was that he didn't want to see a mono-ethnic or all-black film in the first place, since his organization was fighting for integration at the time, 1957 or whenever, but he okayed it. I'm talking about the sexuality in the movie.

But then Mr. Breen of the Office of Production Code Administration, did not want to see any razor fights but especially open-mouth kissing, which we saw in Their Eyes Were Watching God. But isn't this same concern of the author of an earlier post on this thread?

Just to change the subject for a minute, a few years ago I was on an Internet track and field forum when some guy burst in all irate because Runner's World magazine had featured photographs of two black women athletes -- middle-distance runner Regina Jacobs, followed a few months later by sprinter Inger Miller -- either nude (although it was a side view of Regina who only weighs about 90 lbs. and you couldn't see anything) or clothed (Inger) albeit in some kind of an underskirt on but with her legs "open." Neither photo was salacious and since that time, many other Olympians including white women like high jumper Amy Acuff and another 800-meter runner Suzy Favor Hamilton have posed for SI-type calendars. In all fairness to the guy, the same issue that featured Inger also carried an ad (with a blurb by the RW editor) advertising Jon Entine's book "Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It." The point is not to argue Entine's thesis, but simply that in the guy's eyes it was a triple whammy. People on the forum considered seriously what he had to say and so it was cool. I agreed with him about the book but I just couldn't see what business of his it was if the women posed for the photos. So in the same way, the jezebel stereotype, if that's what it is, has a history and meaning for some people, however, nudity is one thing, but when it's called porno that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, plus the Gritty Bob thing, I don't know, I don't see it, and I wish you'd get off this color thing.
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ancestry
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 07:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good points anonymous:

Yet, before this conversation gets out of hand, We, methinks, can all agree that black women in general are sexualized, but differently according to complexion. We can also all agree that light skinned people are discriminated against, but different than dark skinned people. Yet, one needs to consider culture and geography-nation, continent, etc...that african americans are a minority and that in a white country light skinned women have certain advantages...in Africa, blacks are clearly the majority, and only recently have light skinned women received attention because of Western aesthetics, though I don't know to what degree Euro-American standards of beauty have actually infiltrated African culture...Another, though similar to the African American situation(sort of a black America thing) occurs in the West Indies/Caribbean and quite another in the Spanish Caribbean...These differences must be accounted for in an analysis of these issues of color and sexualized black females.
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cynique
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 11:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Both of your posts were very thought-provoking and supportive of the idea that the powers that-be-call the shots, and the skin color of the dominent culture is what influences and prevails, especially when it comes to the entertainment industry. And sexism does, indeed, figure into the equation. Hollywood has always exploited the image of the voluptuous dumb blond. Asian women are always portrayed as exotic and inscrutable, Jewish women comical and overbearing, Italian women tough and shrewish, German ones stoic and blunt, Scandiavian ones earthy and uninhibited, French ones scrawny and brooding. And, of course, all strong women are labeled bitchy. Black women are seen as embodying all of these traits, and all women, no matter what their ethnic origin are trivialized by men in high places, the latest example being how the president of Harvard publically stated that women's brains are not wired to excel in science and math. And female CEOs of Forbes-500 corporations are becoming an endangered species with a couple of them just recently being forced out and blamed for their company's losses. BTW, it used to be that in steamy foreplay scenes, much to the chagrin of feminists, the female character was always completely nude while the male one was only nude above the waist as the screen faded to black, and back in the 60s when the sepia singer-dancer Lola Falana posed nude for Playboy, in one photo, she was pictured naked straddling a big horse, a depiction causing ripples of disapproval in the black community because of the beastiality undertones of this. So, this issue really is a multi-faceted one.
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cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:05 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ahem. My spouse says that its should be FORTUNE 500, not Forbes 500. A Latina friend chided me for not mentioning that hispanic women are always portrayed as "passionate spitfires", and my son assures me that he agrees with the president of Harvard. Duh.
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Anonymous
 

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Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks, Ancestry and cynique, I read Marita Golden's book in the book café this evening, well, all except for the last ten pages which I didn't have time for. It includes an analysis of TEWWG according to her concept of colorism.

I've copied both your posts and will consider them more fully when I have the time.

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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 12:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi ANonymous,

I totally agree with Marita Golden (and Alice Walker made the same point almost 25 years ago)...about why a Negro-featured brownskinned woman with nappy hair (Zora Neale Hurston)....felt in 1937 that a "black romantic heroine" could only be believable as "attractive--desirable---beautiful"....if she were mulatto.

Of course, Marita Golden and Alice Walker are right on the money.

As novelist Kathleen Cross pointed out several months ago on these boards----White Editors---made her change a character from dark brown to light skinned in her book "SKIN DEEP", because the Editor didn't believe that a Black Man would leave a beautiful bi-racial woman to be with a "beautiful" dark brown black woman. SO the dark woman had to be made into a "light skin beauty" to appease the White Editor's belief system.

Many blacks also think this way. Just look at the images in the Music Videos that Black Men make. It's the COTTON CLUB all over again--as blacks use "colorism" the same way they conk and weave their hair. A nose job and a white wife is the new...CONK.

Josephine Baker left the U.S. for France---because a BLACK Producer told her she was "too dark" to be cast in the ROMANTIC LEAD role of "Shuffle Along". She could only play the COMEDIC part or the MAID, a Mulatto had to play the lead. So Baker left the next day for PARIS.

People always say that "White Racism" drove her from America---but they don't mention the "details". And both Baker and Langston Hughes certainly did report that wealthy, club-owning BLACK MEN in Harlem were MORE "color biased" than WHITE MEN. The same thing appears in Bessie Smith and Ethel Waters biographies. Black men preferred to present mixed women who looked like LENA HORNE as "the black woman".

So there is no doubt that Zora Hurston, writing "Their Eyes Watching God" in the 1930's could not have gotten the book published if JANIE had looked more like Zora Hurston.

THEN AGAIN....my hero, Jean Toomer published "CANE" (before Zora's book!) and his book is the ONLY BOOK that features in-depth descriptions of beautiful dark black women and their lives, romances and tragedies. In fact--MOST of the female beauties in the book were described as "dark, dusky, swooningly beautiful".

And don't forget.....Jean Toomer was an OCTOROON!!! (I love him so much).

NO ONE ELSE wrote a book with those descriptions of "black" women until the 1960's (well there was "EmmaBelle" in RAGE IN HARLEM).

But Pre-1960, the focus in BLACK NOVELS (and films) is ALWAYS on White women with black men, the beautiful angel Mulatto or the beautiful tragic mulatto.....and the FAT, Darkskinned Mammy.

James Baldwin, in the novel "GO TELL IT ON THE MOUNTAIN" broke through by writing about a Deep Chocolate woman who looked like a cross between Rita Hayworth and the Queen of Timbuktu. She only appeared for 3 pages--but she was mentioned, at last.


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Jackie
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 01:43 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Waz up Kola?
I had the opportunity to meet and converse with Marita Golden on a daily basis when I attended the Hurston/Wright Writer's week last year. She's an intelligent woman ! I love her.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 10:55 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jackie Joice!!!!!

MY GOD. I love..."you"....girlfriend wit your bad self. What have you been doing?

I have not met or spoken with Marita Golden, but she quoted some things I said in her new book.

I only found out about her as an adult---and I'm now reading her back catalog. She's really a great writer and I love her, too.

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Yvette Perry
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 12:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I did not see the TV movie of "Their Eyes." I'll take people's word about its faults. I see a bright spot, though: The book is currently 9th on the NYT paperback fiction bestseller list, 1 week on the list.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/20/books/bestseller/0320bestpaperfiction.html
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Jackie
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 06:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm an assistant to the director of The Edge Of Each Other's Battle:The Vision of Audre Lorde.(2002)
Got my own column in a gay/bilingual magazine called Caliente Flavaz based in Phoenix, AZ. Been traveling as usual and OF COURSE writing.

I'm currently reading The Biology Of Belief by Dr.Bruce Lipton and The Erroneous Zones by Dr. Wayne Dyer(both non-fiction)

As for "Their Eyes" I was bored out of my mind. Janie was not the right character for Halle Berry. Halle can act a bit high maintenance/strung and sometimes it's a turn off. The ending sucked big time. If my loved one/or lover was suffering from rabies and had a gun in his limp hand I would have tackled his ass....not blow a hole whole in his chest. And Halle could have gotten all the freakin bullets out that gun before Teacake walked back into cabin. What the hell was all that melodrama about ? The sound track was good and I always love my boy is Terrance Howard ? Terrance something. I'm wating for him to get a leading role and see how he handles it. I think he did a good job in Lackawanna Blues.
Anyhow, I've ranted enough
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Anonymous
 

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Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Kola, I had a chance to finish Marita Golden's book, just wanted to say thanks for the conversation. I'm all takled out.

Ancestry, Yes, I understand that the beauty myth is made more complicated for girls and women of color.

Terence Blanchard, a jazz trumpeter originally from New Orleans composed the music. Terrence Howard was one of the actors.
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Brotherman
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Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 07:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Personally, I thought it could have been a lot worse.

I didnt like the first half of it. This might be strange comin from a brotha, but I think that Susan Lori Parks made her first husband and Joe Starks too nice. Oh, she gets the point across that they treated Janie badly, but she felt a need to present somewhat of a balance to their relationship, which doesnt stick to the spirit of their story. Both of her husbands treating her like garbage in the book serves a symbolic purpose in showing the lack of opportunities that women had in the male power structures of lower and upperclass black america at the time. It is precicely that which makes tea-cake such a dynamic character; that he serves as a contrast to her first two husbands and a symbol of the Black Man's potential.

The other thing that bugged me was that she played up the love story too much. After the movie, I read the book again, and there is more of an erotic interplay to janie and tea-cake than I remember, but that wasnt the gist of the story. The gist was her search for her identity and her personal happiness.

And It's almost impossible to capture a great novel on cinema. The novel as an lyrical agent, something that is art within itself, is virtually impossible to capture in a cinematic form. A beautiful Hurston sentence doesnt translate on the screen as it does on the page. beneath her use of dialect, Hurston was as meticulous a craftsperson american literature has ever had when it came to structuring a story, crisp dialect and sequencing a narrative. So it would be almost impossible for Parks, a gifted writer herself, to stand up to that in her script.

But I have a hard time thinking that It could have been any better. As young writers go, Parks was as good a writer you could have got for the job. Oprah could have got a substandard writer and this could have been really atrocious. But on the whole it is OK. Not great. Not even very good. But not bad either.
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Anonymous
 

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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:11 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kola, girl.... all I got to say is YOU GO GIRL!

As a light skinned female (which I didn't learn at home, my mother never made a big deal out of it, the REST of America had an issue with it), even I can see that Black AMerica has a problem with trying to not be TOO black, lest we be less white.

The biggest insult kids in school would give to other kids was to call them an African something. "African booty scratcher". "African monkey". "African mammy."

It's funny that the lighter skinned people were never made fun of for looking less AFrican. More tragic than funny, actually.

Whether we like it or not, whether we acknowledge it or not, we ARE the children of Africa.

And we DO look like a bunch of dumbasses, because WE, the children of Africa, the kidnapped masses taken from our land against our will seem to have EVEN MORE OF A PROBLEM with US being black than even the white man does.

Tragic indeed.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 11:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice speech, "Anonymous." Kola couldn't have said it better herself... Now answer me this. How'd you get your light skin if you're a child of Africa???? But I must say, - your attitude is very "black!"
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Renata
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, Cynnique. Look at what Kola posted above regarding the differences in skin colors of non-mixed Africans.

Now, look at your own family and tell me how many different colors are within your own family.

I have one brother and one sister, and no two of us have the same skin color.

My mother has 5 grandkids, and only 2 of them have the same skin color.

When you consider that all men (black, white, brown, blondes, redheads) originated in Africa, it's not really a big mystery.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 04:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but as we know, the fact that slave descendants come in all colors, stems from the fact that white plantation owners raped and impregnanted their black female slaves. "We are all the children of Africa" is a dramatic phrase that has a nice ring to it, but it's a lot more complicated than that, having something to do with the passage of millions of years. Are you prepared to call a pale, blond, blue-eyed Swede a child of Africa? I don't think he's prepared to be called that and I don't think Africans would claim him as one of their own. Even Kola makes a distinction between the black and white races. Black Americans are the children of Africa and Europe.
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Renata
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 07:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slave ANCESTORS came in all colors, there's no reason to believe that the decendants wouldn't.

SOME Black American people are decended from Africa and Europeans, but not necessarily ALL of them. Unless ALL of the slave women were raped, there were some who only had black (and black only) children.

I don't blame you. When we grow up in a society where our grandparents and great-grandparents believed that marrying darker skinned people would "contaminate" the light skin genes (google the play "yellowman"), it's kind of hard to get people back to believing that there's nothing wrong if they DON'T have white blood.

As for the swede, what ever he's prepared for isn't an issue. Whether AFricans would claim us or not isn't an issue. I'm of African blood. Whether I like it or not, that's the fact.

I could flaunt my skin color, wear my hair as straight as possible, and tell people I'm SURE at least one grandparent or great-grandparent MUST be white, but that doesn't change the fact that none of them were.

Here in the US, the light/dark skin dilemma was used by lighter skinned people to prove, "we're not as black as you. Because of our "white" blood, we're no longer YOU. Get lost". And now American blacks are using this same line of thinking to remove ourselves as far as we can from being considered "African" and hence "black".

So, in the future there will be "multi-racial" people (American Blacks) and "Black" (African). And decades after the white man stopped caring, we're still fighting his battles and remaining divided.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatever. I'm sick of the subject and the same ol belly aching and the same old dooms day predictions. Whatever will be will be.
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:13 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This isn't some doom's day prediction. We in America are ALREADY distancing ourselves from Africa by claiming that we're more of the white man's blood than we are African.

I do find it odd that due to a SMALL PERCENTAGE of mulattoes existing in the 1940's and back, (as opposed to the MUCH LARGER percentage of full blacks) we now try to say that ALL american blacks are multi-racial.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where do you get those figures? From the almanac of Kola Boof, that well known Sudanese authority on African American history?? I question whether anybody knows what percentage of slave descendents are mixed. And you can, after all, be mixed without being a mulatto! You can have one quarter white blood instead of one half, or even one eighth. Jeeze!
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

from www.press-herald.com/echoes/2003, which was a review of a an 1880 census (from one particular area in Louisiana):

I recently had the opportunity to use the LDS CD-ROMs, and researched the population of Minden in 1880. What follows today is an Echo of Our Past, a brief demographic profile of Minden in 1880.
According to the official count, Minden in 1880 had a total population of 1,203 people.

Of that number, 576 residents, or 48 percent, were listed as being White; 502 persons, or 42 percent, were reported as Black; and 125, or just over 10 percent, were categorized as Mulatto. So in 1880, Minden, like Webster Parish had a non-white majority.

From binkleytarpley.com, an 1850 census of Davidson County, state unnamed, but due to 'Cumberland River', I'm GUESSING Kentucky:

There were two free blacks and twenty-five free mulattoes living in four households.
(BUT.....)
The majority of slaves, 880, were black, with twenty-six mulatto, and seven whose race could not be read. (Total: 882 Black, 51 mulatto)

Also, if you go to Ancestry.com, you can find some old censuses (censi?) for some areas. In 1870, in Augusta County Virgina, there were 1661 mulattos, versus 4970 full blacks. In Franklin county, Virginia, of the same year, there were 1651 full blacks, versus 754 mulato.

Also, keep in mind that NOT ALL slave women who had children had them by white men. And not all black men who had children had them with white women. I'm sure SOME of those slave FAMILIES had children between two black people, with no white people intervening. Also, at least in the south, there was a tendency of a lot of mixed people to not marry full black people.

And I'm not saying that there are NO mixed people, just that we aren't ALL mixed just because we're American.
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the above descriptions of Africans are accurate, I would say that perhaps my family is Xhosha or Zulu, I guess ....we're very yellow skinned, but with the kinkiest, nappiest hair and biggest AFROS (not "good" hair) you'd ever wish to see on anyone.

(no clip can hold my hair when it's natural)
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason mixed people and light skinned people see how racist America is is because we see how white people treat dark skinned people, and how differently they treat lighter skinned people when there are no darker skinned people around.

Light skinned people love their darker skinned family, and find it an insult when a white man will mistreat them, but will tell light skinned women "you're pretty FOR A BLACK GIRL,", "you don't act/look like OTHER black people". (trying to divide us)

Then there are some who HAVE THE F*#&ing nerve to INSIST that you MUST be half white or one quarter white, will nearly get fighting mad when you deny it, and then try to treat it like they're giving you a compliment!

I'm not stupid. The different treatment: to keep us divided as they have so far.
To insist that we're part white: they just want us and if we "agree" that we're part white, then it's "ok" for them to date us.

True story: I dated a white guy when I was 16. I told him numerous times that I WASN'T any part white and wouldn't lie and claim that I was. He told his parents I was anyway. Then he explained to me that if he DIDN'T tell his parents I was half white, he wouldn't be able to date me. I knew then it wasn't going to last.

So, the white man has one face for the darker people and a different one for the lighter people. And to me, all of this "we HAVE to be part white, because we're AMERICAN" crap is just us having low self esteem and trying to make ourselves "ok" for the white man's bed.

I have nothing against actual bi-racial people, but there's also nothing wrong with being a full-blooded black person, which I AM.

(And if you don't believe me....if you have any daughters, nieces, etc. in school, ask them how the white male teachers treat them versus other black girls with a different skin color).
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Slow Poke
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But Renata, I'm confused.

Kola is saying that Redd Foxx and Toni Morrison are "pure" blacks and that Yam Yellow people are real Africans.

Then turns around and--I'm confused!

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Slow Poke
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola's prejudiced against Mulatto, mixed and biracial people. She hates them.

Unless it's somebody who agrees with her like Malcolm X or Toni Morrison, then they're "pure" all of a sudden!

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Cynnique
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, we're are not talking about 1880. You referred to the year 1940 in your previous post, not to mention the fact that Louisiana is certainly not a good test case because of the their unique classifications, e.g. Creoles, mulattos, octoroons and quantroons, Cajuns, etc. Or do Virginia and Louisiana figures reflect the census of the entire United States in the 20th century. BTW, what are "full" blacks? And I repeat you don't have to be a half and half to be mixed. Not only that, back then, people could call themselves whatever they wanted to call themselves because nobody could actually prove differently. Nowadays, we have DNA and this is the only reliable test to determine racial make-up. And considering that slaves came from West Africa along the Ivory coast, you are fooling yourself if you think you're a Zulu. Just like what a chuckling Zulu tribal chief recently said about Oprah being mislead to feed her ego. The chances of her being a Zulu descendant are zilch because Zulus were never involved in the slave trade. So just face it, babe. Spare me all that wishful thinking. You got your light skin from a white slavemaster who impregnated a female slave who was probably mixed by the time he got around to her. If you think that after 400 years, the majority of slave descendants in America are pure West Africans you are wallowing in a Kola Boof romantic fantasy.
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No one really mentioned anything about this, but I just want to point it out. White people are not responsible for the mistreatment of dark black people today, but black people are. And I say this because mixed people like Halle are better treated than the real African decent ones. This is why Halle feels people treat her better than her fellow dark black people. An example of this is Alek Wek. Most black Americans believe she is just too dark to represent clothes in the fashion business. "Blackness" has turned against itself!
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Cynnique
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola Boof has become a caricature. She tries to enhance her credibility by taking on the identity of a bunch of characters passing themselves off as African Americans. She puts her tired old familiar repetitious gripes into their mouths and thinks she's foolin somebody. Kola is relentless and obsessed and needs to get back into therapy so she can be cured of her multiple personality disorder. Renata, indeed.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, Troy, you can delete my last post. LOL
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Renata said: "The reason mixed people and light skinned people see how racist America is is because we see how white people treat dark skinned people, and how differently they treat lighter skinned people when there are no darker skinned people around."

I say, that is the opposite. White people don't care how light one is. If they're not white, they're not equal to them. Look at how they treat hispanics and most hispanics have white skin. What I'm trying to say here is that culture matters. And also like I said in my previous post, black people are their own enemies when it comes to skin color in the present world, white people will play along with them.

A white person can tell any black girl "you don't act, look like other black girls".. In fact, several white people have told me this and I am black as the night. When they say "you act different" it didn't mean I acted better but culturewise I'm very different. And when they tell me, "you don't look like other black girls..." it usually means that I have a very dark, soft skin that most black Americans don't have. And so I tell them, "I am from Sudan".

Many of my racist experiences in America have always involved black people. Black people hate charcoal black people. In fact, I was often called "charcoal" by black kids in grade school. Today, I wonder where these children learn to hate the color black. And I'm sure white kids didn't teach them this because not a single white kid made fun of me then so they must have been taught by their parents.

Like most races, that boy's parents probably don't like dating outside of their race. Most races are like that but it has nothing to do with the skin color. It's just a cultural/moral issue most people believe in.

Again, black people are the ones mistreating each other. A black friend was putting twists on my hair and comented my scalp isn't light like everyone's mostly is.. like I care about that.. Anyway, there was other girls in the room and they just looked at me like I was weired or something.

Renata: "(And if you don't believe me....if you have any daughters, nieces, etc. in school, ask them how the white male teachers treat them versus other black girls with a different skin color)."

Me: It should be the other way around. How about black American parents ask their kids how they treat the dark skinned South Sudanese kids from Africa or the very dark skinned black Americans. So, don't blame this on the white people because I don't think they care about yellowism (there's no such word, but oh well, lol:-))) I also think white people just don't like the black man's language, but who should have to change for anyone:-). Peace out.
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Renata
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:11 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African Queen, thank you. You have made a good point. It IS a lot of Black on Black racism as well. I live in ATlanta, and we have a small Sudanese and a large Somali community.

My sister once made fun of a Sudanese, and the first thing I told her was "you're a nigger just like he is." I never heard her make fun of African people after that anymore. (Not in front of me anyway)

As a dark skinned person, you may take things said to you in a different way, and I thank you for pointing it out to me.

I perhaps take it differently, because to me, I see it as their trying to make me feel somehow "superior" to other black people, and I really don't appreciate that. It actually pisses me off. I'm not ashamed to be black, and I'm not trying to distance myself from Africa.

No one here has to believe who I am or not, my email (I'm assuming) is attached to my name if you want to check. If not, just ask for it.

But I am upset that you, Cinnique, are treating me EXACTLY like white people do: INSISTING to me that I HAVE TO BE part white, when I KNOW for a FACT that I'm not. Why would a white man CARE if I'm part white or not? When they're interested in me, it's a big deal.

And you Africanqueen, will see that that's probably a little of where this black on black racism stems from, us trying to prove ourselves to be part of the white man, hoping that will earn us his respect. These other children mistreated you because you were so obviously NOT mixed with white blood, and they were disgusted by full black blood. And I'm sad that we've come to this.

Thank God, there was no colorism in my family. Half of us didn't realize we were light skinned until we started school.

I've met a few white guys who didn't have colorism, I must admit. They dated dark skinned, light skinned, Asian, etc..... Then there were those who I HATED, who only dated bi-racial or light skinned girls, didn't have dark skinned friends, made a point of showing off his girlfriend to his white friends as "proof" that he's not prejudice, then in the same breath point out her skin color. My STUPID sister dates guys like this. Makes her feel special to be accepted by a white guy, I suppose. I point out to her that if she refused to go by his "you must be part white" crap, he would dump her before God could figure it out. (oh, yeah, this IS THE SAME sister who makes fun of dark skinned people ...isn't that just DISGUSTING!) She'll make fun of a black man, and then run off to her WHITE boyfriend who points out how NON-black she is. Must be the Black American dream!
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Renata
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And also think about it, there's reason why Halle Berry is considered a sex symbol, but women like Sheryl Lee Ralph aren't.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Renata" you come across to me as one of those light-skinned sistas who bends over backwords to show their "blackness" and who secretly think they are doing their darker skin kinsman a favor when they embrace them. Actually you are the one who is color-conscious because you keep making a big deal out of your color. When other people look at your yellow skin and conclude that you are not pure African, then you are the one who is deluded, not them. Why don't you just accept yourself for what you are, instead you trying to blame others for not deferring to your false facade. If you could ever focus on the idea that "blackness" is a state of mind, not a skin color, and quit overreacting to how you imagine white people perceive you, then you wouldn't be so conflicted.
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Renata
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You don't get it. I'm not imagining how white people perceive me, I'm noting what HAPPENS. Perceptions vs. ACTIONS are two different things.

This is a place where it's NORMAL to point out how we're part white, yet also NORMAL to make fun of darker skinned people. Just like I had to point out to my sister, she's the SAME nigger that she thinks African people are.

This is a place where white men (not all) DO date black women and make a point of telling his friends and family "well, she's not ALL black." And think that he's COMPLIMENTING her, and hope that her not being "ALL BLACK" will make her acceptable. And we run right behind him and hope he'll "compliment" the rest of us by saying none of us are all black.

I'm not doing anyone a favor to embrace them. I'm doing MYSELF a favor by being proud of who I am. How the hell am I doing dark skinned people a FAVOR by ADMITTING I'm black? That's not a favor, it's the truth.

Someone noted earlier that it seems that lighter skinned people seem to dislike white people more. There's a REASON for that. We get sick of white people who TELL us (not ask) how white we are, and expect us to kiss their ass because they noticed.

I personally don't mind dating white guys per se, but when he makes a big issue that I MUST BE half white and REFUSES to accept that I'm black, I get an issue with him. And here in Atlanta, that's a lot of men.

We DO find a huge injustice where it's NORMAL to "embrace" a white part that can't even be proven, and also NORMAL to dislike dark people who remind us how dark black people can actually get.

If you don't find the stupidity in that, I don't know how else to explain it.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 03:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, "Renata", maybe you wouldn't have to face all of the dilemmas you cite if you'd be true to your convictions and not date white men. As race- conscious as your are, going out with them makes you guilty of "sleepin with the enemy." You apparently want the option of dating white men, but you can't deal with the attitudes that come with the territory. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So get over being flattered by their attentions and give the white guys the boot because you might get knocked up by one of them and end up with an ultra mixed baby and how ever would you deal with that???? Heavens to Betsy! And, BTW, as far as the examples you state as being "normal", they may be normal to you but you certainly don't speak for everybody and you inadvertantly reveal something about yourself when you say what you say.
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Renata
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 03:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't date them anymore. I did when I was younger, until I noticed what a**holes MOST of them are.

And I wasn't at all flattered, I was FUCKING INSULTED. WHICH IS THE ENTIRE REASON I LEFT THEM THE HELL ALONE.

Why was I insulted? How dare my DEFINITE blackness be ignored, while my QUESTIONABLE whiteness be glorified just to make me "acceptable" to be seen in public with! That should be an insult to any black woman!

And what did I reveal about myself by noticing that no one finds it a SHAME to speak of people like that?

I've gone to public schools my ENTIRE education. I can say for a FACT that children DO make fun of darker skinned and it's considered NORMAL, and that's what the SHAME is. It's accepted, it's a rite of passage, and most dark skinned kids go to school KNOWING that they will be made fun of.

You have NO IDEA how upset, pissed off, and ASHAMED I was to see my BLACK sister making fun of other BLACK people.

ATTITUDES LIKE YOURS is what's contributing to this BS. For her "part white" attitude, the rest of black America is TOO BLACK for her respect. Why should she respect an African or a dark skinned person? She's NOT even African AT ALL...being born in the country, she should be considered MORE MULTI-RACIAL (read: non-black).
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Cynnique
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 03:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Preach, Kola!
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Renata
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 03:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe other people will get, because apparently you don't.

There is no problem with being half white for people who actually ARE.

But I'm NOT, and how dare someone try to whiten me up so they'll feel "better" about being with you. That is a definite insult.

To ANY man, if you can't date black women, just say so. Don't try to MAKE us white.

And by doing this, they're CONFIRMING that there's something wrong with the black....but maybe that "other" stuff will "dilute" it somehow.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 03:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I waiting for Tonya and Renata to have a conversation so I can really crack up. ROTFLOL
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 04:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Renata,

I have experienced this as you know and so is the younger siblings and cousins I have.. are experiencing this still. One day, something really bad is going to happen and then it will become a national attention and I hope it does so black people will see how disgusting they are when they make fun of black skin. I hope we all see where the real racism takes place one of these days.
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 04:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Renata,

I'm happy there's people out there like you. Your sister disgusts me though. I hope she changes her ways and realizes that we're all the same in this world. No one is better than the other. Wether, white, black light skinned or black.
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Renata
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with you Africanqueen, no one is better than any one else. That's one reason that I hate it when Black Americans try to say how we're not the same as Africans because we're considered mixed, and then turn around and berate Africans and use "black as _____" as an insult.

That's why I tell people who berate dark skinned people and Africans "you're a nigger just like they are." Basically, I mean that just as the other person is black, so are we, whatever color we are.

We are from the same place, and I would do myself and the black race a disservice if it's the BLACK part of me that I ridiculed. (And yet we glorify any other part of us)
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 12:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL, Renata, a black American kid was making fun of my little sis' color when we first arrived in the US and there was a white man there and he said to him, "no one is black" LMAO. I really meant to tell him to have better explanation but I was scared and ready to take my little siblings home.

I wish I did something to defend us, but I was new in the US... I wasn't quiet ready to die yet. I know what black Americans can do when you mess with one of them. I was more afraid of them than I was of white people and white people are suppose to be the enemy because of slavery.
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Renata
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Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I seriously wish the white guy would have told them EXACTLY what I told my sister, "you're a nigger just like she is." That would have shut him up.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 01:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Renanta", your anecdotes ring soooo false. Are you suggesting that a black person needs you to tell her that white people look upon black Americans as "niggers" or that a black person would single out an African to call a nigger rather than one of his own? That's a crock of crap and nothing more than a feeble attempt to create parables in support of Kola's contentions. Excuse me while I crack up laughing.
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Abm
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Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 03:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Africanqueen,

We African Americans have MANY problems. But you should have a care. Because were it not for the African Americans you frequently complain about, it's unlikely you'd be here to begin with. Because we more than ANYONE else are the one's who have FORCED America to be as free and open as you currently enjoy.

And were it not for US, the White foks you laud would NOT be NEARLY as friendly to you.
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:18 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well Abm, I wish I came in the sixties when white fox were mistreating black folks instead of in the 1990s where black folks would be mistreating black folks. Do you have any idea how sad it is to be made fun of by your own kind? I'd rather have a white man throw me out of his country than for a black man to get here as a slave and treat me like am different from him only because he's got a brown skin and I have charcoal. Fuck black Americans in the US who make fun of black Sudanese! I fuckin hate them fuckers... END OF STORY!

Renata,

I wish too the white man had told them, "You are a nigger just like she is." Although, I don't think he would have the guts to say nigger, lol.. White people are scared to say that.. But anyway, I did once tell someone this... but I used "black" not nigger.. and she got pissed and jumped me with the rest of her friends after school in eighth grade. A white girl was trying to help me by telling them to leave me alone.. I will never forget that.... and I shall continue to fight for the freedom of black folks with black folks. Abm, being in the United States today is more painful than death because of black people who make fun of the most darkenned black people!
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:34 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African Americans have no problems, they are plain lazy! Why should I care for anyone who sits around and makes excuses saying, "it is the white man's fault!" I am sick of excuses and black folks. Excuses me "Mr. UN..." my sponsor was not "African American"... The people who take food to refugee camps are mostly whites... The people who helped us out when we arrived in the US were white... Abm, you are only free because you learned English and was able to fight your way to freedom! Before, you were purchased from the store and I'm sorry that had to happen to you, but you're not fixing it by allowing your children to betray their own kind and hating the color black!

America is NOT FREE! America is only getting worst especially if all you do here make fun of your ancestry!
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:39 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African Queen---

what compounds it, is that ABM lives in a Northern VERY BLACK area where he is exposed to a different "set" than you are down in Texas.

If you lived in the big Northern black city where ABM lives....you probably would be more accepted.

Unfortunately, I know all too well how Black American "children" view race/color......it is shocking to an African and it mainly comes from their insecurity about their own blackness.

For instance when I came here---the Black American kids liked me because I had a skinny face and seemed "lighter" than the West African children in our neighborhoods. They would call me "Ethiopian" and would SHUN the negro-looking West African children.....calling them "monkeys", "African booty scratchers",etc.

---They LOVED "Puerto Rican" children or "Latinos".

Of course, the Africans had their prejudices, too.......but not nearly as much as the Black American children did...because of course, African children are not aggressive (all Americans are) and are not exposed to "television", "media" in their homes to the degree that AA children are--we wouldn't think of giving our opinions to adults/teachers and African "girl" children do not "SPEAK" IN PUBLIC.

So I can imagine how terrified your 10 year old sister was when the Black boys chased her for being "charcoal" and shouted that she's "too black".

And yet they came here looking like your family, 400 years ago.

But as Frederick Douglass said.....the "slave" eventually becomes the "master". And that is what we are witnessing....along with Black Americans' DENIAL of it.

ABM would be on your side if he had witnessed what actually took place. He would have kicked those boys's asses. Trust me. He just isn't exposed to what you as a "charcoal female" experience. It's not a reality from him---just hearing about it.






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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:46 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynque,

I think Renata is trying to tell these black kids that the ones they make fun of are their own kind. In her definition, she's using "nigger" which also means black. And correct me if I am wrong. In other words, we are all black people and should not kill one of us whom may be the darkest in the room. Believe it or not.. if this country was only built of black people, I would have killed myself in grade school. The black people in America today hate the color black! And so, we should try and teach our children to be proud of being black. Otherwise, one day the darkest kid is going to be tired of being made fun of and do something really bad..
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:54 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African Queen wrote:

African Americans have no problems, they are plain lazy!

KOLA:

This is NOT TRUE.

African Americans have ENORMOUS problems...stemming from the fact that they were Physically and Psychologically Abused for 400 years......their language, names and identities were stripped from them (unlike you AQ).....they were not even allowed to be raised by their mothers and fathers....for 400 years...they were HUNG, Raped, Beaten with WHIPS, spit on.....refused education

and systematically TAUGHT for 400 years that they are "NOTHING"....that they come from "NOTHING"....that their people in Africa "SOLD THEM".....that they are Monkeys, Inhuman, Jezebels, Coons and Mulattoes.

They are not LAZY...they are "traumatized"...and they feel unloved.

You came here from SUDAN....and everything was just HANDED TO YOU...FREE---because you're a new PAWN for the White People.

Please don't worship whites without realizing the truth.

And that is that you are a new NIGGER to the American white helpers. They want you to be a CHRISTIAN (which is exactly what you have become IN EXCHANGE for coming here).

And as long as you praise their Bible and Jesus like you do (dismissing your ancestors African religion and Nilotic ways in Sudan, like you have).....and as long as you are not likely to be chosen by any of their sons (or even your own men) for Pro-creation and won't be producing anymore Black "acculturated" babies.........and as long as you see them as your savior and become a good all around Mouth Piece for Apple Pie....they will be nice to you.

I totally understand your RAGE at being so rejected by AAs----because it's true----they HATE Africans and hate them because they're "black" like us.

But it's the WHITE PEOPLE's FAULT. They are the creators of this bullshit...

....and they are responsible for what is going on in SUDAN (the British put the Arabs in charge)....and it's the WHITE PEOPLE who have raped, destroyed and poisoned Africa and no matter how NICE they are to you......their race is COMMITTED to your destruction.

You know...and I know....that the White People around you BELIEVE that they are superior to you, more beautiful, more valuable and they regard you....as a PET. Their liking towards you is based on the fact that they see you as a Non-threat.

And you will see.




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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola: "African children are not aggressive (all Americans are) and are not exposed to "television", "media" in their homes to the degree that AA children are--we wouldn't think of giving our opinions to adults/teachers and African "girl" children do not "SPEAK" IN PUBLIC. "

Me: You are right about that! Folks from Africa are very quiet...

I think it's a shame a parent wouldn't do something when their child is being mistreated... but I would understand since there's not that many Africans around. Most of us are living scared all over the world... this is what I think. And well if I needed to die as a kid, I would have said something and fought or something.
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Kola
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:06 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But AfricanQueen....

...if I had not been raised by Black Americans, then I would not be "aggressive" myself

...and I would not be doing all the things that Sudanese are ASTOUNDED BY and proud of.

So we Africans must realize...that our greatest strength will come by Re-uniting with our American brothers and sisters.

MUCH of my personal power comes from being raised by them.

Mixing their culture with ours---can make you almost SuperHuman.

I'm not joking.


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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:28 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I was a Christian before I came here.. Would have been forced into Islamic and had my breasts cut off with a knife if I hadn't survived Sudan's 20 year old war..

Truth: Black folks have always been lazy.. and it all started from the black men who traded them in for guns.

I am better off pawn and accepting the right for all humanity than MUSLIM for sure. I am a slavery surviver just like the black Americans (much more worst even) and I happen to be loving myself still ain't I?

Kola: "I totally understand your RAGE at being so rejected by AAs----because it's true----they HATE Africans and hate them because they're "black" like us. But it's the WHITE PEOPLE's FAULT. They are the creators of this bullshit..."

So I understand it is the white man's fault. But how come black people don't stand up for themselves and identify their beauty instead of throwing it away? How come white people compliment Alek Wek of being a beautiful and unique black model while my black friends say, "she so ugly!"? And well, I will treat others just like they treat me and I will call anyone who calls me "ugly" the same thing.

Ok, so it's the white man's fault, then why are we followers and sellers even today?

I don't find the white Muslims equal to the Christian white men.. they HATE EACH OTHER! The war in Sudan is a religious and cultural war... and these separate white men are having the exact same war through terrorism.

I have always been the one to treat people as individuals and not really a whole. When I say "white people" or "black people" I'm usually pointing out the group who act on these things. But it's hard to say the name of the person with the mistake when a majority is acting. The man who decided I have to get a better life in the UA isn't apart of this war in Sudan and he was white and God bless him for thinking about me.
How about treating people as individuals instead of causing more hate and war?

The bible says a black man is cursed..? Could this be the reason for our destruction? I mean I happen to believe in this book and follow every word, Kola what do you think?







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Abm
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Africanqueen,

First, you should consider traveling more throughout the US. Because, as Kola alluded to, not all American Blacks think/respond the same to color differences. Yes. Those biases to some extent exist everywhere. But geography plays a large part in the degree to which these biases manifest.

And 2 of my most favorite people - one my best friend since fourth grade and the other a female cousin have skintones that are about as dark as yours.


We African Americans have many complex problems. Many of them are external. Many are psychological and even spiritual.

And, yes, we must learn to work together to cure ourselves of the harmful effects of colorism and build viable and self-supporting institutions, businesses and families.

But Black Americans can’t effect a rescue your people. Not directly. Hell, we hardly have a pot to piss in our dayam selves here.

But in the last 3 years, you had not one but 2 AFRICAN AMERICAN US Secretary of States bring the plight of your people to light of the American people. And you can bet that Sudanese backside of yours that were Colin Powell and Condelessa Rice NOT African American, had they and their backers no empathy for Africa and Blackness, the issues you decry would NOT as they are right now be amid the American consciousness and discourse.


Now. If Whites – who DO have the all the money and power - are so much more inclined to empathize and care for you than Blacks, answer me these:

Why are there no White Americans fighting/dying in the Sudan to free your people as there are in Iraq (and/or [Saereavo] 7 years ago)?

Why haven’t there been millions more African invited to live and work in US?

Why does White-controlled United States give more foreign aid (and I don’t mean those BS loans) to Israel than it does the entire continent of Africa combined?

Why has America and Europe thwarted African attempts to develop space technology?


Do not be fooled, child.

You are to Whites more a novelty or pet than you are an equal human being. The gestures made by Whites to you and your kind are akin to White foks rescuing the Blue Whale or saving the Spotted Owl.

Believe me: If and when you and Africa as a whole become a threat to the White-dominated world power structure, White people will begin to treat you more harshly that most African Americans would even dare imagine.

THAT is their way. THAT is their HISTORY.



Kola,

I am sure you know it’s inanely naïve comments like those that have been expressed by Africanqueen that cause many African Americans to be especially suspicious of the motives and indifferent towards the plights of Africans and Africa.
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with ABM. I'm all for Africa, But Africanqueen's comments were very offensive and untrue.

Tonya
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Kola
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM, I agree with you 100%.

African Queen really doesn't KNOW about "Black Americans"----all her friends are white/Mexican and her family are freshly arrived Sudanese.

But on the other hand, her attempts at connecting with Black Americans at school was met with "violence"..."disgust at her color"...which can be shocking to African people, and there are MANY published reports of extremely dark negroid Africans being BEATEN by AA teens/children for being "too black". I remember when her 10 year old sister was attacked by a gang of black TEEN boys.

It's normal for people to hate those who hate THEM.

Again, I totally disagree with AQ's comments--and I would KILL ANYONE for my Black American parents, including "Africans"---but totally relate to her bitterness.

_________

And Queen, I'm not just saying this....but in the case of ABM (God, I wish he didn't have to read this)...but anyway, in his particular case...I can promise you--he is our KING. He is not like those black boys in your town..AT ALL. He would protect us and he cares about us, genuinely. He cares about ALLLL Black people worldwide. I trust ABM with my life. So please know that I feel very hurt by you offending him. Anyone else, I can be objective. But not ABM. He is our real father and he is TRUTHFUL.











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Renata
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Africanqueen, you understood EXACTLY!

UNFORTUNATELY, those kids wouldn't have understood if you told them they were the same as you, but if SOMEONE ELSE told them, they would have believed it.
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Renata
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't say anything about Sudanese politics or racism, because I honestly don't know enough.

I'm not so sure about the bible, because I'm not Christian (I'm more agnostic). But if you read that black men were cursed, was that in the new testament or old? Just curious.
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Kola
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The bible says a black man is cursed..? Could this be the reason for our destruction? I mean I happen to believe in this book and follow every word, Kola what do you think?

No, African Queen..that's absolute bullshit..it doesn't SAY THAT, but that's how "White" people interpret it.

And that's exactly why I'm not a christian and loathe the way that African immigrants are NEUTERED by that religion.

I started my own religion...The Womb...that serves me, and Jesus Christ is a part of my religion and Mohammed and Isis and whatever else is healthy for my spirit.

And there is more than just "the black man"---there is the "black WOMAN" and "black children" as well. He is not the sole representative of blackness or Africa---and does not represent me.




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Renata
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You guys made a lot of good points. Especially, Tonya.

It reminds me of a joke a WHITE comedian said on television a couple of years ago. Keep in mind that he was FAT and UGLY. He said (and was honest, IMO):

"I've seen black men turn down beautiful black women to go out with white women I wouldn't go out with."

LOL

I sure wish I knew who he was, and I hope that where ever he, he keeps telling that one.
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Renata
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm SOOO sorry....

I thought I was posting this to another board...

How'd I get here?


...lost.....
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Abm
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

Thanks for your compliments. I doubt I am worthy of such praise. But I appreciate them nonetheless. :-)
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abm,

I agree. Not all black people are racists towards Sudanese Americans. But what I am saying here is that only black people in America so far have been hating the color of my skin. I lived in Dallas for 6 years before I was near Louisiana and I can tell you that the black folks I've been friends with hated my skin color. Of course I've also received compliments from older black folks, but the prejudice has moved on with me till today. You can't really say "map" to me because I lived in Kenya for years and experienced the same type of racism. I have travelled and know my way around the world. I don't have to live in northern America to realize anything.

Now, I don't know about Rice and Powel and what they're doing in the white house because I obviously don't pay attention to politics.. But I'm going to try and answer your questions.

Abm questions: 1. Why are there no White Americans fighting/dying in the Sudan to free your people as there are in Iraq (and/or [Saereavo] 7 years ago)?

2. Why haven’t there been millions more African invited to live and work in US?

3. Why does White-controlled United States give more foreign aid (and I don’t mean those BS loans) to Israel than it does the entire continent of Africa combined?

4. Why has America and Europe thwarted African attempts to develop space technology?

My answers:

1. Has the war in Iraq helped you solve any personal conflicts in your life?

{Essay}"Silent Cry"

I come from South Sudan, a country that has been going through a civil war for twenty-one years. The war is between the Arabs from the northern part of the country and the African tribes in the southern part of the country. The people in the north are more dominant because they have more guns and ammunition. They are the superior people whom are mistreating the southern Sudanese. I originate from the southern part of the country and believe that if I were a northerner I would still be in Sudan today. However, like many other southerners, the war caused me to leave. The war is my silent cry because the media has ignored it for so many years.

I am only two years older than the war in Sudan. I left when I was six years old. Most people cannot imagine what it would be like to walk for two months in North East Africa, sleeping in the woods, making fire, fetching water in the desert and crossing rivers using unsafe boats. I don't have to imagine this since I endured this pain. In addition, I never got the opportunity to be educated in a peaceful environment as a child. I remember having to write on dirt because there was no paper or pencil. Because of my painful experiences, it is very difficult to address how the war in Iraq has helped solve any personal conflicts in my life.

The Iraq war has only made me realize how severely the war in my country has been ignored. My cry for help is the silent cry because nobody is willing to listen no matter how loud I cry. Nobody is willing to pay any attention to the suffering, death and starvation in Sudan. While walking for two months to get to a refugee camp, I often cried knowing that nobody was listening to me. When the United States president said the reason for going to war in Iraq was to liberate its people, I became upset because more liberation is needed in Sudan. There is genocide in my country, while Iraq only lacked a democratic government. Therefore, I think I have the right to complain when the world's most powerful country makes an illegitimate decision to start a war using false reason.

Thankfully, my family and I managed to survive through the war, but I have lost many relatives. Even though I consider myself a survivor, I don't think I have escaped war for life. Just because I don't have to drink dirty water or write on dirt anymore does not mean I am no longer at war. I have many definitions for the war in my country. For one, it is the relatives I have lost and the people I have left behind to die. My dear grandmother, uncle and many cousins died shortly after I was in the United States. Secondly, the war is the racism I experienced when I immigrated to other countries. My first and most terrifying racist experience took place in Kenya, Africa. Schoolmates mistreated me because I was from Sudan. Also, schoolmates made fun of my dark skin color. Thirdly, war is the struggles I went through due to the difficulty of learning other languages and cultures in foreign countries.

I am very lucky to be alive and living in America. However, I did not grow up in my own country and this is not easy. I never got the opportunity to experience life in Sudan and this is very difficult to deal with. I have lived in America for ten years and this is the longest I have lived anywhere in a single country. Often, I have wondered what it would be like to live in Sudan, whether I would be able to cope with the country’s culture since I've adopted most of the American culture. Living as a woman in America, I'm quick to smile about all the freedom I am given but living in Sudan would be a completely different story. There are arranged marriages in south Sudan, which I hate very much. In addition, it is a very sexist country, and the Islamic religion dominates. Women in Sudan are not allowed to date men freely. Instead, men get to choose the women, and they can marry as many as they please. In the northern part of the country, women have to wear veils and dresses covering up to their ankles because these are the rules of the Islamic religion for women. I can’t imagine dressing like that because the weather in my country is always hot. In addition, women are married at a very young age so they never get the chance to get educated. Sometimes, I have feelings I’m safer in America even though I wish I lived in Sudan.
Regardless of all the freedom in America, I am still not happy because my people back home are dying. The dying is an erosion of human life called genocide. I’m only lost and hopeless in the silence of my cries. Iraq’s lack of democracy is nothing compared to the war in Sudan, yet the U.S chose to go fight in Iraq. The world’s ability to ignore this situation for so many years is terrifying. People in healthy countries tend to get comfortable in their homes worrying about how to make more money when the people in my country can’t even look forward to the next hour. For years, South Sudanese have been unspoken for and left to die a silent death. In the U.S, my cries remain unheard.
A number of Americans have asked me why I left Sudan. If only they knew that more than two million people have died because of a civil war, they would not have asked this question. First, I lived in refugee camps for years until my family decided to come to the states through the help of the United Nations (UN). Thousands of southern Sudanese aside from my family and I have left the country and refugee camps to immigrate into countries without war. I think that if the world helped stop the war there would not be so much moving taking place. Just because I moved out of Sudan and live in the best country does not mean I have escaped war for life. I am still at war because I continue to cry out for help to stop it even in the United States.

The only way I would feel war has solved any conflicts in my life would be for the war in my country to be the main news on televisions all over the world. War would only be over when my pain and tears are no longer silent but heard. Until the entire world starts crying with me, there will never be peace in my life. Everyday when I think about my war, I feel forgotten. One Sudanese refugee mentioned on American television that America is like a second heaven. Truthfully, I am a sure America feels heavenly to a Sudanese war survivor. Therefore, if America is like a second heaven then Sudan must really be a second hell. However, even though these were the man’s very words, there is no place like home. Sudan will always be my country no matter where I go, and nothing makes me sadder than watching it crumble into ashes. Presently, the war is still taking place. There may be peace agreements here and there but nobody is willing to see the torture that is really taking place in silence. Continuing into the year 2005, southern Sudanese are being forced into becoming Muslims. My people are treated like dogs, and I’m lucky I don’t have to go through this. But it doesn’t make any difference when America did not know which country needed more liberation than other.
My silent cries worsen when these things happen. Nobody likes to immigrate because of war. Seriously, I wish the U.S went to liberate the people in Sudan instead of the people in Iraq. In silence, my people and I will continue to suffer while Iraq celebrates its “freedom”. My definition of life will always be war; therefore, the war in Iraq has not solved any personal conflicts for me. The UN continues its supplying of left over dinners and clothing while I’m here crying for a new kind of help. Sudan’s civil war is twenty one years old today, and I don’t doubt there will be another twenty one years if nobody takes action and hears the crying deaths.
Finally, if the Americans cared for liberating anyone, they would have gone to Sudan. I think it would have made more sense if they kept their first reason which was to get rid of weapons of mass destruction. Sadly, this was not the case so the president made up a false reason. The US has no time to worry about the present; it only has time to worry about its future. Honestly, this war is not being fought for the people of Iraq; it is being fought for the people of the United States because it doesn’t make any sense to choose to fight for the people of Iraq over the people of Sudan. My people need more help because two million have died from my war. In my opinion, the one going through the most suffering deserves help first. However, the US did not see this and this is why I feel the war in Iraq has not solved any personal conflicts in my life.

2. Americans bring African refugees to their country because usually, that is their last option. I will tell you one thing though, they have gone and fought for an African countries before. Somalia is one that I know of from the movie and history books. As of Sudan is concern, it might be a little too late to fight for it now since there is no one to fight for anymore. And from my essay above, as you can tell.. I really have given up on help from the outside. Everyone has crossed the ocean to be living in the US, Australia, Germany, etc. Others moved to Egypt but Egyptians treat them like animals so they come to America.

3. While I lived in Kenya, most of those people did not want to leave their country to come work for the US. They love their country and want to build it while they're in it. Heck, they fought to keep it.

4. This question can compare to my first answer.

5. It is pretty dumb for us Africans to be trying to develop a space technology before we can develop here on earth. And should nobody have to stop anyone from doing what the heck they want in this world. Africans can go to space with or without the white man's permission if you asked me.

I am nobody's pet and will never be fooled by a smile.

ABM: Believe me: If and when you and Africa as a whole become a threat to the White-dominated world power structure, White people will begin to treat you more harshly that most African Americans would even dare imagine.

THAT is their way. THAT is their HISTORY.

My respond: A black man will never That is very illusional, it will never happen and you are dreaming. A black man will never become a threat to the white man. And what for? Why should my people have to be a threat to anyone to develop in the world. Are you trying to create more war than peace? I think there's already enough blowing up the buildings going around and the arab Muslim is the threat to the western part of the world NOT Africans...

AAs know better than to make fun of Africa and Africans. I have suffered just like they have. I deserve to be respected and left alone in my skin just like they need the same thing.


Kola,

Most of my friends are African, white, black and mexican combined. I am not selective of people.
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Like some black Americans, I believe that one of the ways to deal with colorism is to indentify more with Africa. I've heard ,however, that many Africans are just as prejudice as non-blacks are towards AAs. I decided not to believe that because I thought it was our way of distancing Africans. So although I understand how she feels, when I hear an African talking like AQ it makes me wonder if I was being naive . It's not that I was offended. I was actually surprised. But that's why I decided to participate on these boards, I want to learn and occasionally I want to be surprised.

I'm not going to pretend that I love ALLLL BLACK people because honestly I really don't. But I do want to become a little closer to the ones from Africa, so I'm hoping that they're not all the same.

Tonya

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Kola_boof
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African Queen--

Your words...DEEPLY insulted and offended most of the Black American people here. And that is inexcusable.

Yes you have suffered, and since you represent the "MotherSeed" of our race---you're right---the Black Americans should be overjoyed to see you and should accept you as their new friend from their real HOME.

But they don't even like themselves--because of what's been done to them---and as much as they TALK about Africa, they don't know shit about Africa. WHICH IS NOT THEIR FAULT, truly.

I'm not making excuses...I've mentioned your situation and always taken up for you....

...I'm just making it clear that I don't agree with AFRICANS (including you) trying to dismiss them as some "lazy, backwards" people. They are not.

They are US----and don't remember.


And when you BROADLY attack "Black Americans"--you're attacking my FAMILY from Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia and Washington D.C. DOZENS of Black American people who I love as dearly as though they were born right along with me in Omdurman. They are GOOOOD people, and because they had to raise me and learn so much, THOSE folks would never hurt you or disrespect you.

I am on your side. But I am also DETERMINED to forge a deep, deep, deep...abiding relationship....between African Americans and Black Africans. WE MUST join our power together. :-)

One side has the technological power and access to the media....the other side has the full blood, heritage and KNOWLEDGE about who were created as..in God's image.

I'm glad that you're stong and don't take any more shit off Black Americans. You shouldn't.

And while you may have black friends---you only posted PHOTOS of Mexicans (or claimed they were Mexicans). Your friend from Basketball who came here to TELL ME OFF...was a White Girl, who sounded dangerously close to a bossy Plantation Matron, and that's why I blasted her fucking ass---which is why it hurt me to do, because you she was your friend, but I'm MUCH OLDER than you (are you even 20 yet?) and I know a lot more about what the real picture is. These White people who befriend you---who allow you to think that Black men are CURSED by God----they see you as a MASCOT, a PET.

I only tell you these things, because I love you.





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Africanqueen
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Username: Africanqueen

Post Number: 132
Registered: 02-2005

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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL... Kola...

I am not attacking all AAs... just the ones that do this "you're too black, haha, haha... did your mama turn you like that?... etc" I talk like this about them because I love them too. As a matter of fact I listen to mostly hip hop and R&B music because these people have African talent when it comes to music. I love AAs with all of my heart, but I will not watch them make fun of my skin color either. I'm just expressing my feelings as to what has been done to me and how painful it is. I do the same thing for Arabs in Sudan whom are physically abusing because of cultural and skin color differences. Like I said before, if I could be superwoman, I would save all the southern Sudanese but I am not. If it wasn't for this war, I would have never experienced racism because skin color is not an issue in the village. When a kid is born very dark they usually create a very unique name for them, like black. Or if a child is born brown, like some of my sisters they name them brown. We don't select any color over the other. I don't think white people are better than black people, they have just been more aggressive than us through centuries and should nobody have to threat anyone to achieve leadership. I looooove all people, not just my own and nobody is ever going to change that.

The people in the picture are mostly hispanic because I presently attend college on the boarder of Mexico and Texas. Nobody has translated that verse about a black man in the bibl... my African friends from my previous college were jokingly talking about it one day, and I was just wondering. I am NOT BRAINWASHED. I see things as they appear in this world... I follow the truth not lies. I am realistic and so when the bible would say this, I look at black people in comparison to white people and find it somewhat true.

I don't attack anyone unless I've been attacked, and again... I am not refering to all AAs... Oprah is a good AA.. Martin Luther King, ABM from this site is also a very smart man and I love most of his posts. I respect him and I'm not trying to desrespect anyone.. There is certain people I would talk trash about and these are the ones who "hate black skin" do you understand what I'm trying to say?
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Kola
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Username: Kola

Post Number: 1991
Registered: 02-2005

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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But the vast majority of Brothers and Sisters on this site are Black American.

You really attacked them AND ME by saying: "Black Americans are just lazy...blaming the white man...making the excuses."

It really hurt my feelings that you said that---because I've heard a LOT of ignorant African people say that....and I happen to know HUNDREDS of Black Americans, and they are not lazy or anything else negative----they are CHAINED by the circumstances that White RULE has caused just like we are.

As Toni Morrison said: "There is no bad luck in this world..but white folks".

And one day, when you're much older, you will see WHY she wrote that.








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Africanqueen
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Username: Africanqueen

Post Number: 133
Registered: 02-2005

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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, if you read my essay "Silent Cry" you should be able to figure out how old I am. But I'll just tell you that I am 2 years older than Sudan's civil war. I am today 23 years of age. I moved to America about 10 years ago.

You know, I am everybody's friend because God knows I have been thrown around through different cultures since I was 6 years old. First, I lived in the village. And then I moved to a refugee camp in Ethiopia. And then back to the village and there we walked for 2 months to KaKuma refugee camp in Kenya, where we left to be living in Nairobi. In Nairobi I had to learn Swahili and I did. We lived there for 4 years before we arrived in the United States. So, I've spended years here, there.. etc...

So, I never really lived in one area to be used to the same people.. this is why I love everybody and get along with just about any race in the world. I treat people equally. I had to learn to get along with people whom are not my own because I'm basically alone in the world as much as I've been travelling.

I am very used to it though and now all I wana do is travel, travel, travel for the rest of my life as long as I have the money to do so.
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Africanqueen
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Username: Africanqueen

Post Number: 134
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes Kola.. black Americans make excuses all the time. I believe that they can do better than gangster nation and prostitution to make it in the world. I believe that they can do better than leading America in AIDs cases. I believe that black Americans CANNOT BE LAZY. They can be better than sitting around the house depending on Food Stamps for getting a lady pregnant that never should have been. There is black colleges in America and black Schorlarships... there is ways black people can be successful in America. But No... they fall behind and get their ladies pregnant without a dime to support the baby. I CALL BLACK PEOPLE LAZY BECAUSE I KNOW THEY ARE SMART AND THEY CAN DO BETTER THAN EMBARASSING THEMSELVES OUT IN THE STREETS. NO, IT IS NOT THE WHITE MAN'S FAULT.. All black people should be like this one homeless man who raised his son in a restaurant and became a millionaire... idk what he did but he believed that we don't have to be Michael Jordan to be successful in America! I call black people lazy because all they do is sit around the house and rap about getting fucked and hustling out in the rapping business. As a black girl, I demand my respect regardless of my background, my history. I am only one, but life isn't racism in America.. it is about working just as hard as anyone to get an education and be successful in this world.... I am not smart or anything... but I'm going after what's being thrown to my table (life) and taking advantage of it.

Black people are lazy when they imitate "white features" like the blonde hair, lightenning of the skin, etc...

Black people are lazy when they make fun of other black people and select the light skinned people to be the most beautiful. As you can see, the light people are taking over BET.

I love everybody regardless of skin color. It is all God's creation and this is what I've told anyone who made fun of me.

Martin Luther King pointed this out to the white man, so why are we hating ourselves now?

And Kola, I am not referring to all African Americans when I make these comments. It hurt me too when those kids made fun of my skin color, this situation leads on to adult life, even though it doesn't bother me anymore. But there's children out there who go to school everyday like Renata said, "knowing that they will be made fun of because they are very dark!"

My siblings are about to start school in the fall.. and I know they're strong kids and will know what to do in the situation. My 12 year old has her smart ways of talking to these kids. The other one is a bit lighter and looks like most of the AAs so they don't mess with her. Some of us are light in the family and haven't had the chance to experience racism so they too would be offended if I talk about African Americans this way.

Is a black man really that low that white people are our bad luck? This really makes us more petlike, just the way it sounds. It's like the white man basically did whatever he wanted to and the black man just let them.

I don't understand why we just want to be like the man whom is bad luck then. I don't understand why my people hate my color and want to be bad luck... I hope you get what I'm saying.
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Africanqueen
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Username: Africanqueen

Post Number: 135
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 12:04 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And I am not referring to the people on this board.. Like I said, "the people that do these things.." I know that the people on this board are not lazy and are actually doing something in this world to stay respected. But you're not doing anything for anyone when you attack white people. Remember, Martin Luther King did it through love. And like Jesus Christ, he was murdered for what was right. And he was a pastor, a Christian. He was not a white man's follower.. he believed all people should be equal.
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Abm
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Username: Abm

Post Number: 3920
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Africanqueen,

*sigh*

Africa is arguably the world’s must plentiful land mass. It has virtually every treasure, in boundless abundance, known to man. Thus, it has for +500 years been ravenously exploited and pillaged by Europe, Asia, the Middle East and America.

Do you HONESTLY believe that non-Blacks will comfortably tolerate Blacks claiming more dominion over them selves and over Africa?

If you do, then it is YOU, my dear, who is [“illusional”].

Black people are going to have to fight to develop, fight to build and fight to maintain. And our doing those will be considered PROFOUND “threats” to non-Black people.
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Africanqueen
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Post Number: 136
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, Abm,

You two obviously know more about the earth than I do... and I'm sorry for my stupid comments to you all about Africa and AAs. Just know that I do believe in my people from Africa that they can be successful and leaders in this world. Again, my apologies. I will not be commenting on this site anymore, but I'll still be reading about people's opinions. Did I ever tell you how sweet this site is? This is like my only news channel because I hardly have time to watch tv... Hey, yal have a great life and may God bless.

Abm, I'm very sorry for saying "illusional" to you. I had no idea what I was talking about. I should never say African people aren't capable of going to space either.. anything is possible and one day it will happen. But don't listen to me, I am just a refugee ok.

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Abm
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Username: Abm

Post Number: 3928
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:04 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AQ,

You should not eschew posting comments because we disagree. Dialog, inquiry and debate allow us ALL to learn. Just understand that making fairly negative comments about others will likely elicit some fairly strong, though, hopefully insightful rebuttals. If you view such in that spirit, we'll all be fine.
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Tonya
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Username: Tonya

Post Number: 77
Registered: 07-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:07 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

During my post I said:

It's not that I was offended. I was actually surprised. But that's why I decided to participate on these boards, I want to learn and occasionally I want to be surprised.

I meant that AQ. I appreciate anything you can teach me so hopefully you'll decide to stay.

Tonya

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Kola
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Post Number: 1992
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:42 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me tell you something African Queen---

You being hated and mistreated by AAs because of your color (which is #1).....and you making prejudicial comments about AAs being "lazy, hateful", etc. (which is #2) are 2 totally different issues.

On #1, we're all on your side. We think it's wrong for you to have to be treated that way, and over the last few MONTHS, we've all stated that---for over a year, I've emailed, telephoned and done everything I could to express my support for you and your sister and was totally outraged by those incidents. You know that.

But on #2---YOU were wrong and you insulted everyone here, basically inferring that Africans are "better" than these lazy Black Americans, didn't apologize and then have the fucking nerve to act like it's US who did something to you.

You're more than welcome to post here. We all love you and want to hear what you have to say---but don't try to put this on us, Nyibol.

My whole heart and soul is open to you, because you're like a baby sister.......but I am a TOTALLY different kind of Sudanese woman than you are.

I'm not a follower in any way--never have been---of religion; of men; of nice people; of assholes---I don't FOLLOW.

Because almost every single thing in this society is a fucking LIE. Everything!

And if I'm not being served and every woman is...then goddamnit, something's wrong.

I don't like this fucking society....and as much as you long to be accepted by it and try hard to fit into it...I refuse.

So that's Kola, Nyibol.

Now please don't leave the party. Get your ass down off your back and join in and have your say---but remember---most people here are NOT Africans.

Just me and you are and Renata, I think is from Uganda.





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Abm
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Username: Abm

Post Number: 3930
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:16 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

I agree all you say above. But Nyibol is very young and is still close to the pain and confusion that childhood and puberty in general (and her rearing/experiences in particular has) reaps upon you.

Plus, Nyibol is still profoundly unschooled in many facets of American (Black, White & Other) history and culture.

I think her heart and spirit are moving in the right direction. Her frequent presence here suggests as much.

We need her as much as she needs us. So please give Nyibol some time.

And be kind. :-)
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nyibol
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 03:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I really don't want to say anything else that will hurt any of you. And the best way to do that is to not say anything at all.
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Renata
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Username: Renata

Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not at all sensitive.
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