| Author | Message | ||
     Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2050 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Given the recent news and anecdotal observations it seems to me monogamous relationships are the exception not the rule. Sex before marriage has been pretty much dismissed -- even among many Christians. What would you think of a 30 year virgin, who is waiting for marriage to have sex? Then remain faithful the entire marriage. (He'd probably end up marrying someone who sleeps around on him and then takes half his stuff in a divorce) Is adultery next? I know many of you women have been propositioned by married men. Is monogamy unrealistic, impossible, unnatural, overrated? Or is monogamy the foundation of a civilized society or stable community? Is the dearth of monogamous relationships a signal of the decline of civilization, or do the "rules" need to be revised? Should people continue to extoll the virtues of monogamy and live the lie of "public monogamy" while getting busy in secret? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14405 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Gee, Troy. What woman would could say she rejects monogamy without incriminating herself?? Someone like me I guess because I'm old and widowed. I'll simply say that I don't think monogamy is inherently imprinted on the human brain. Whereas it may have originally been a stronger impulse for the female of the species for purposes of survival, in the process of evolving, women became more self-sufficient and open to interacting with the multiple partners that she was able to lure with her wiles. In a marriage, adultery can be a crime of opportunity. If all the conditions are right and the attraction is there, then yielding to temptation offers a chance to experience the variety which is indeed the spice of life. Isn't Life meant to be lived to its fullest? Maybe being true to one's vows involves not being true to one's self. The same with cheating in a relationship. Where does commitment end and self-fulfillment begin? It's rare for a person to be involved with someone who is the embodiment of everything one desires in a mate. You only go around once in life and if the opportunity to become intimate with another person who attracts you presents itself, well - who is to say you shouldn't go for it? The bottom line with women, however, is that the excitment and thrill of an affair have to be worth the risks involved. If getting busted means a disruption of a life that involves children and stablility, then I think most of us would play it safe. It's not a reverence for monogamy that inhibits, it's a fear of getting caught. Not to mention dealing with a guilty-conscious. IMO. Now, it's time for all the long-suffering martyrs, and good Christian sisters to check in. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2052 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique some would argue that living life to it's fullest would imply a deeply spiritual, physical and monogamous relationship. Sleeping around too much limits the depth and quality of one's relationship. Do you think any of those "long-suffering martyrs, and good Christian" could be men? If the spouse was cool with the other's infidelity that would get rid of guilt, getting caught and the disruption to the family. Many people have just this relationship. The "cheating" spouse is usually obligated to show some discretion and not throw their extra marital affairs in the other one's face -- don't bring home any kids, diseases, or drama from the other person. Of course this is a slippery slope. If you allow someone to have an affair with the above rules you know there will be a baby along with all the requisite baby momma drama. Maybe it is better just to make monogamy the standard and save everyone the headache. If you want to sleep around don't get married or at least get a good disguise. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8392 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
"What would you think of a 30 year virgin, who is waiting for marriage to have sex? Then remain faithful the entire marriage. (He'd probably end up marrying someone who sleeps around on him and then takes half his stuff in a divorce)" (I would think much of such a person. However, in this society he would be ground up like hamburger. He woul probably wind up getting screwed over, yes he would. Nowadays I would advise a 30 year old virgin to lie about it. Nobody would know anyway--he should get another virgin. If his partner comments on his lack of technique he should say he only had sex with his farm animals before) "Is monogamy unrealistic, impossible, unnatural, overrated? Or is monogamy the foundation of a civilized society or stable community?" (Monogamy is best. But this is a corrupt, degenerate society. If you are monogamous, you better do it just for your ownself, because your partner likely won't be. Look at it this way, if you are monogamous and the other person is a ho you can slime them during the divorce) Should people continue to extoll the virtues of monogamy and live the lie of "public monogamy" while getting busy in secret? "People should do what their partner expects of them. In addition to the emotional problems screwing around has, there is the problem of unwanted pregnancy and STDs--yeah, them saintly women will get knocked up in a New York minnit to force a brothers hand--well, all things fair in love and war anyway, huh? I think we ought to also look at this in another light. Somebody screwing around is cheating--why look at it like this. As some sort of game with points--oh you had a hoochie so I should have a back door man-- People marry for the wrong reasons. Romantic love. Sex. This is bullshit. You marry so your children will come in with a patrimony and you can combine resources. Americans need to grow up) | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8393 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: |
"The bottom line with women, however, is that the excitment and thrill of an affair have to be worth the risks involved. If getting busted means a disruption of a life that involves children and stablility, then I think most of us would play it safe." I think that the thrill of doing something forbidden is most of it. After all, if it is just sex, you can masturbate. Or you can go to a professional. I think that adultery is a form of weakness, especially when carried to extremes. I know most women almost expect a man to sleep around outside marriage--what they object to is him doing more than having sex with the "other woman"--rarely will a woman just sleep with a man--she wants all that other stuff too. Communication (ugh! I'll wash your funky drawers but please don't ask me to communicate) Time spent. All that bull. That's when they get upset--when the broad starts calling the house and talking about it outside-- Men need to understand there is a difference--generally men look on sex as an end in itself and women look on it as a means to an end... | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10446 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, Virgin Man: A Cautionary Tale: I know a woman who married a virgin. Dude was nearly 30 when they married. He was a smart, productive, law abiding man. An engineer of some sort. Earn so much dough they were able to live comfortably sans her having to work. And because he was raised NECKDEEP in the chuhch-thing he was on some pretty strict anti-promiscuity kick. Being herself a preacher kid, she thought the LAWD had sent to her the PERFECT man. Well, what she didn't know until sometime AFTER they had married was dude had been supplementing his his late-stage virginity via a porn-laden masturbation addiction that he apparently could NOT kick even after he started getting the real thing. Often he couldn't even get an erection sans porn. And often he could ejaculate only while jerking it to porn. Of course, she felt offended, ashamed, neglected and abandoned by his extreme predilection for self-gratification. So the sex problem morphed and expanded to assorted other problems. And they divorced within 5 years. Men may have all KINDS of problems and issues that women should consider, including matters concerning fidelity. But I also believe a woman should think long, hard and DEEP about marrying an adult virgin. Because chances are he's got some issues that may prove as to be as problematic as ANY his wife is inclined to encounter. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10447 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Monogamy is not impossible. But I believe it is for most MEN unnatural in MANY cases unrealistic. The pursuit of sexual gratification is a part of the basic predator urge of males. It is inextricably linked to the will to pass our seed on. To perpetuate ourselves, our species. And there’s something about that first time a woman smiles at you. Laughs at your dumb jokes. Touches you. Those first moments when she disrobes. And sighs and rolls her eyes back as you enter her that can be everybit as addictive as ANY drink or drunk a man may ever consume... | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2054 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
ABM, it would be interesting to know what homegirl in your cautionary "tail" looked like and what her "skill" level was. Perhaps the masturbation was better... Chris, so you would have a lot of respect for a 30 year old virgin. Interesting. The problem with lying about it though is that it perpetuates the idea that being a virgin is peculiar or bad. When we were kids there were two types of brothers; (1) the ones that lied saying they had sex and (2) those that were actually having it -- and even those cats probably exaggerated. Today I imagine more children are having sex earlier than they were when I was going up. I bet if more children had the guts to admit that they were not actually having sex being a 13 year old male virgin would not carry so much of a stigma. Faithful husbands will soon carry that stigma... looked upon with curiosity, ridicule and scorn -- a relic of some anachronistic, puritanical era. Seems having a mistress is a sign of wealth and power. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8398 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chris, so you would have a lot of respect for a 30 year old virgin. Interesting. The problem with lying about it though is that it perpetuates the idea that being a virgin is peculiar or bad. (60 years ago it would not have been bad. In this overcharged, sexually heated, perverted, demented and corrupt society it is bad--just like being a pacifist President. Git wit de times, bro!) AFTER they had married was dude had been supplementing his his late-stage virginity via a porn-laden masturbation addiction that he apparently could NOT kick even after he started getting the real thing. "There are many who would say that in spirit, he as no virgin. Jesus is one. You commit adultery the minute you look upon a woman with lust in your heart. It's just like all these idiots who do not think a handjob or a blowjob is sex. But, when you have a disgusting, perverted, corrupt society like this one, it is par for the course." | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10448 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, Some mutual friends of ours who attended college with her and another homey of mine who 'tapped that' have said things about her that would suggest chick could make the cut of a good pornflick. So I don't think her skillset was the issue. Unless, of course, what she could do SCARED the hell out of her ex. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10449 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy: "Seems having a mistress is a sign of wealth and power." Well, I would modify that to say "...having SEVERAL MISTRESSES is a sign of wealth and power." Because, hell, any broke nugga with a little game can slick up on him ONE sidepv$$y. But usually takes some dough and leverage to get and keep SEVERAL different ho's going. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8401 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Those first moments when she disrobes. And sighs and rolls her eyes back as you enter her that can be everybit as addictive as ANY drink or drunk a man may ever consume..." At first I thought you weren't the real ABM--I thought it might be Kola having some fun.. But it IS you. Young man, you are obsessed with sex! | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10450 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chris: "Young man, you are obsessed with sex!" Why you say that like it's a BAD thing, bruh? | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2489 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oooooh boy ABM, you're pissing off some folks up in here. You do know that some folks can't handle the truth *lol* | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2490 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
I wasn't even going to touch this post. But I am sitting back and reading... and laughing... and shaking my head. Nope, I won't touch this subject. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14408 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Any time a man leaves the disrobing to a woman instead of peeling off her clothes himself, he loses points as a playa. Any time her eyes are rolling up in her head instead of looking deeply into his as she meets his lips, the guy's a boner not a lover. Double-dealing men do not choose. They are chosen by women who decide to give them a shot. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14410 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chrishayden is really a prude. All of this giving lectures about Jesus and referring to this society as corrupt and perverted. Society is now sexually-liberated and has come a long ways from the stifling era of puritannical victorianism. Women, for one thing, have been allowed to embrace a healthy affinity for sex. Divorce has lost its stigma and homosexuality is no longer swept under the rug. There is less hypocrisy except when it comes to religion. Anything that can be deemed perverted has not just come about. It has always been around but was not discussed or publicized. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10451 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey: "Nope, I won't touch this subject." As the young foks say: Don't be SKURD! HAHAHAHAHA!!! But really, though. Getting too old to be BS'g, Boss. We're MEN. We know WTF the REAL deal is. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2056 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I can't tell you how many books I've recieved about relationships in the past few months. There are the books from the ex-playa's perspective, the fatherly advise perspective, the Harper/Harvey celebrity prespective and the female perspective -- including Karrine Steffans!. One of the books from the female's perspective is J.J. Smith's Why I Love Men: The Joys of Dating In this book J.J. says "Monogamy is Unnatural for Men". She does not say that she condones cheating men, but she recognizes that so many men, who are actually happy with their wives, still cheat on them. And as a result the situation needs to be discussed. I've heard compelling agurements from folks sugesting that a happy life can be obtained by; (1) enjoying as much of the variety and volume of women they can obtain, and (2) going for that deep spiritual and monogamous relationship. Seems to me if depends upon the person whether option (1) or (2) is best. Your proclivity one way or the other is probably determined at birth. The happiest people will most likely be the ones who are naturally inclined and better able to achieve option (2); because it is most aligned with our societial mores. Though "2 types" are in the minority (sorta like college graduates). "1 Types" like Tigers Woods constantly have to fight "society" to be their natural selves. Tiger, despite his billions he is less happy than some "working stiff" happily married and faithful for the last 20 years... [Editor's Note: Smith is an advertiser which is one reason I read the book out of all the ones one the subject I've recieved. But this is not the reason I rasied the subject here.] [Side Bar: Seems the Tiger Woods scandal could not have been orchestrated at a better time for books on this subject.] | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2492 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Tiger, despite his billions he is less happy than some "working stiff" happily married and faithful for the last 20 years..." That is a statement that you can not qualify as true. First and foremost, although Tiger is now facing humiliation, it appears as if that statement was refering to before his present crisis. Lets say we're talking post "scank breaks" that statement still can not be qualified as true. How can anyone else remotely know what makes him happy. Moreso, happiness is a fleeting emotion. Are we talking about a piece of mind or happiness? Who's standards are we using? Here's another one that makes no sense and could be proven wrong..... "Your proclivity one way or the other is probably determined at birth". That's nothing but an ugly rationalization. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3758 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Re: Woods: If breaking news stories are to be believed, it appears he may (soon) be facing more than "humiliation." He may soon be tied to every ill short of being the true mastermind behind 9/11. [Side Bar: Seems the Tiger Woods scandal could not have been orchestrated at a better time for books on this subject.] True, Troy. And likely publishers are rooting in their trash bins for the books they got a month or two on the subject and will rush to publish these, too. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8407 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
How can anyone else remotely know what makes him happy. "If the Negro was happy, he wouldn't be ducking and dodging and getting run out of his own golf tournaments. He would be grinning like hell in all the papers and tabloids. Sometimes you argue just for the purpose of arguing. That' allright. You are an honery old cuss like me. I hereby make it my mission to heal you. Lay your hands on your computer and say "HEAL! HEAL!" No charge, man. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8408 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Chrishayden is really a prude. All of this giving lectures about Jesus and referring to this society as corrupt and perverted." (I am. But I'm not proud of it. In fact, I sometimes agonize about it for hours with hoochie mamas and skanks--especially after making love. I do not avoid women, by the way. They sense my power and are attracted. But I do deny them my essense. And do not let them pollute my precious bodily fluids) | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10452 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, You appear to be presenting a bit of a false dichotomy. For MOST men, the issue is NOT as simple as the (1) or (2) you present. Most men who cheat will NOT do so as rabidly as you describe. Conversely, they likely will struggle to exclusively achieve and maintain some deep, spiritual monogamous coupling. If anything, most of us will wrestle with some blending of both of those and the relative proportions of that blend will often change over time and circumstances. The existence of monogamy is really not the issue as much as the APPEARANCE of such. As long as we can all delude ourselves and each other into believing that is how we should and must live, and as long as we can sufficiently obfuscate the truth of what we are doing from each others - many of whom prefer NOT to such - our current manifestation of societal order and decorum will prevail. But when we decided to very openly and perhaps even legally live OTHERWISE (e.g., polygamy, polyandry, etc.), then we truly will be compelled to develop very DIFFERENT laws and familial and societal structures and mores. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2057 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey you are right I don't "know" Tiger's state of mind, but based upon the stories that I'm subjected to every time I turn on the radio Tiger is under stree, perhaps depressed, and was very anxious about his marriage dissolving and having his young children send off to northern Europe. Peace of mind and happiness go hand in hand. I'm using the individual's own standard of happiness. Carey, again, what makes people happy varies from person to person. This is so obvious that it does not need proof. While our tastes are developed over a life time of experiences, I'm suggesting that a portion of our proclivities, and what makes us happy, is determined genetically. Anyone who has raised more than one child knows this from experience. Similarly this observation requires little proof just a little common sense. So I do not think it is a rationalization to believe that some people who be very happy with multiple partners. But in our society that happiness would be thrawted. Because of our public standard (in contrast with our private behavior). | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2058 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Abm, I think the dichotomy as presented is valid, in the sense that you are either monogamous or not. It is a binary position. Sure there are degrees of faithfulness. But again either your are faithful or you are not. Describing it as a "blending of both" is a euphemism for being unfaithful. Again I assert that in our effort to "delude" ourselves with the "appearance" of monogamy we foster our own unhappiness. A Tiger Woods would have no problem, and be much happier in a society that accepted his "unfaithfulness" or one which it was normal (Mormon, Islamic, Branch Davidian, etc). | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10453 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, I agree one either is or isn't monogamous. But I don't believe that because one is or has cheated, he or she has or would do so at Tiger-level. Nor do I believe because one does not cheat, he or she has or will necessarily achieve some greater spiritual connection with his or her spouse. And I am not attempting to euphemize infidelity. Rather, I am trying to provide a earnest and accurate description of what happens in most situations. I don't know whether or how happy Tiger is. But although he may be very troubled now, I suspect he will come to appreciate getting a divorce and being able to have sex with whomever he choses sans the spectre of a disapproving wife and venal divorce attorneys. I think as bleaks as things may seem right now, Tiger might come to realize that what happened three Fridays ago was the BEST thing to happen to him. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2493 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chris: "If the Negro was happy, he wouldn't be ducking and dodging and getting run out of his own golf tournaments. He would be grinning like hell in all the papers and tabloids. Sometimes you argue just for the purpose of arguing" Chris, sometimes you speak before you think. That' allright. You are an honery old cuss like me. Again, you failed to read my post or you missed the point. Did you read my question? Are we talking about before the Scandal or after the scandal... get it? Also, do you understand that happiness is a fleeting emotion. NO ONE... NO ONE is happy all the time. Tell me that you understand that before you "argue just to argue". Also, some individuals love conflict. Who's to say that Tiger does not. You can assume many thing but you error when you state it as a fact. I am not saying this applies to Tiger but they say there's no bad publicity The point I am making is that nobody can speak for another persons happiness. Now Chris, can we work from there? Hell, if I am to believe NTSF, I would think you're not happy when you spend all you money on 5 dollar crack ho's. But only YOU can tell us the real story :-) | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2494 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy Wrote: "While our tastes are developed over a life time of experiences, I'm suggesting that a portion of our proclivities, and what makes us happy, is determined genetically. Anyone who has raised more than one child knows this from experience. Similarly this observation requires little proof just a little common sense" Troy, even though you conceded a bit by saying "a PORTION of our proclivities", in your example of raising children, you're not talking about GENETICS. You're leaning more towards role models and environment. If you're not careful, you might turn into one of the white scientists that said black folks evolved from Apes so their potential to learn is limited. "Carey, again, what makes people happy varies from person to person. This is so obvious that it does not need proof" DUH da DUH, that was my point! If you are going to speak on Tiger's "happiness", YOU have NO proof to support your words. Troy: "So I do not think it is a rationalization to believe that some people who be very happy with multiple partners" Troy, again you've skipped over the rope. I was saying you rationalized a behavior under "a genitic problem". As if to say certain people have no choice over the matter. That's mess, Troy, and you know it. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14411 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Good grief. After trying to distill the gist from the verbal maze of convoluted ideas contained in all of the foregoing posts in which female input was conspicuously absent, I've come to the conclusion that the reason men are not monogamous is because they can't even focus on a single train of thought, much less a single choice of a woman. In our feeble efforts to relate to each other, human beings are left with the task of finding ways to communicate, and language is the best we can do. Words, however, are inadequate when it comes to capturing reality. Reality exists independent of expression. What we all instinctively know is that sex is sustenance and that one man's meal is another one's appetizer. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2495 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
I missed this... ABM wrote: "I don't know whether or how happy Tiger is. But although he may be very troubled now, I suspect he will come to appreciate getting a divorce and being able to have sex with whomever he choses sans the spectre of a disapproving wife and venal divorce attorneys. I think as bleaks as things may seem right now, Tiger might come to realize that what happened three Fridays ago was the BEST thing to happen" BAM! There it is! Troy implied that Tiger was not happy before the scandal, and will not be happy after the scandal leaves the front page. His assessment was rooted in his "own" perceptions of happiness. That's why I said Troy errored in his original statements. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10454 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, Again, I don't know what specifically would make Tiger happy. But I suspect that his finally being able to OPENLY and HONESTLY live as he chose to will make him happier, even if he (via divorce) takes a sizeable hit to his investment portfolio. I think the question with Tiger is whether and/or how soon will he come to grips with his no longer being the perfect, near-omnipotent iconic figure he once was. If he can deal with that, he can potentially be a happier, more spiritually content person. But if he can't reconcile that, then I really FEAR for him... | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2498 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
ABM, I agree. A subtext of that is, rather or not Tiger even saw himself as all the things you mentioned. Yes, he was projected as such, but only he knows what's in the core of the man. If his happiness was rooted in his "image", I agree, he could have problems finding a comfortable place in life. Hell, Tiger knew is dick was hungry for a variety of scanks, so now he can say "oh happy day, the wicked witch is dead". Micheal Jackson had a song the went "she's outta my life". But you know what, there's a victim in this whole debacle that few are talking about. The black women still can't get paid. I am writing a post about that. It's going to center around the blows the black women has taken as a result of Tiger's "crime". Magic Johnson will be in that post, as well as Tiger. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14414 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Few are talking about", my eye. That's all black women are talking about, gloating because Tiger and his preference for white women got what he deserved. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10455 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, I don't really see any sort of "crime" Tiger has perpetrated against Black women. He was simply living as he chose to live, perhaps how he was raised to live. And he is certainly not the first and only Black(ish) celebrity who avoid mixing genitalia and genes with other Black(ish) foks. There are plenty of his famed peers, male and female, who act and live in kind. So I think it is unfair to uniquely single him out as such. Still, I am sure I will enjoy your take on things. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2500 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oh my dear Cynique, you walked over dollars to get to the shiny pennies. I was not talking about black women gloating. That's kindergarden shit. See, many WERE talking about that mess you mentioned, but few were talking about....? Besides, whatever THEY were talking about, it wouldn't be told in the same voice. So my question to you is.... AND? Yeah ABM, I too didn't see it as a crime and that's why I put it in quotation marks. Mistakenly so or inappropriately so, but I agree with your take. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2234 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
[quote]Men may have all KINDS of problems and issues that women should consider, including matters concerning fidelity. But I also believe a woman should think long, hard and DEEP about marrying an adult virgin. Because chances are he's got some issues that may prove as to be as problematic as ANY his wife is inclined to encounter.[/quote] If every woman felt this way then he'll stay a virgin until he's 40 There are men who are virgins at 30 because they were not successful at dating as other men. I don't think they s hould be frowned upon or avoided. Somebody needs to give them a chance. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14415 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Whatever the case, Carey, as usual you presume to speak on behalf of, or for black women. My question is: Who needs YOU? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2235 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
Yeah well what does black women have to do wtih Tiger? His mother was Asian. How come no one is asking why he doesn't date Asian women?? | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2061 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
No one is asking about Asian women Brownbeauty123, because Tiger is Black (society's definition not mine). ABM I agree Tiger may well be happier post divorce, as he'll be able to indulge his sexual appetite without reservation. Considering he has more money than he or his progeny need, he is well suited for the task. One might consider his position enviable. He may lament the absence of his children, but I suspect, given the time he devoted to other women, the kiddies were not a high priority in his life. Carey, you seem to be more interested in catching something wrong in what I wrote rather catching the understanding of what I said. One last time: Tigers propensity for happiness and his inclination not to be monogamous is based upon the personality traits he was born with as well as the environmental factors that impacted him. Also, the more in line one's personality is with societial norms and standards the easier it is for them to be happy. This goes for physical characterists, intelligence, as well. The tall, blonde, good looking, smart white man that works out and is well educated has it much easier here in the US of A than a short, unattractive, Black woman with a lower than average IQ that went to a poorly run school and who eats too much and smokes. That is not to say the sister can't be happier than the white guy but it is not very likely (everything else being equal). Now this is hypothetical, but do you see my point? Finally you can not prove this wrong any more than I can prove it to be accurate. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2501 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Carey, you seem to be more interested in catching something wrong in what I wrote rather catching the understanding of what I said" Okay Troy, we'll let that rest right there. That's you thoughts, and I disagree with them, yet I can't argue against your feelings. We've pretty much beat this to death. You and Cynique have worn me out. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3759 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
There is research that suggests that most people need some level of material things and societal accomplishments to rate themselves as "happy." But after a certain point, piling on more money, "stuff," and achievements does little to make people rate themselves as happy/happier. Carey, in your piece I hope you link to specific instances of Black women "gloating" about the Woods affair. I have not seen much evidence of that. So, do folks think he should go on Oprah? What do you think she should ask him? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2236 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
"No one is asking about Asian women Brownbeauty123, because Tiger is Black (society's definition not mine)." That's no excuse. His racial heritage is openly known to the world. He looks Asian too. We are quite aware that he has an Asian mother. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2062 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Brownbeauty123, reality does not change the fact that Tiger, is percieved as Black. Perception is everything is the shallow society we live in. To paraphase Chris Hayden <i>"Negroes been in this country 400 years and still don't know how it works..."</> As an aside. I recently posted a interview wih Soledad Obrien (http://bit.ly/5ILVCm) . Soledad who is also of mixed heritage. But unlike a large percentage of American Negros she is seemingly embraced by all her "groups". She has recieved awards like: The NAACP’s President’s Award, The Hispanic Heritage Vision Award, Top 100 Irish Americans” by Irish American Magazine. Soledad is Black when she is doing the CNN Blacks in America Special; and can also be recognized as one of the top 100 Irish Americans?! Only in America kiddies, only in America. Brownbeauty don't hold your breath waiting around for chinese people to start complaining, like Black people, about Tiger not choosing a chinese woman. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10457 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
BB123: "...what does black women have to do wtih Tiger? His mother was Asian. How come no one is asking why he doesn't date Asian women??" Asian Americans have NOT had to debate and assert their identity (and HUMANITY) to the breadth, degree and complexity that African Americans have. Hell, until just recently, the LAW would enforce such classification (e.g., colored, negro, black, African American, etc.) upon us REGARDLESS of how we might have thought and felt about such. And we have only recently begun to seriously question and challenge the "one-drop rule". Since Asian’s don’t have our unique history and place in this nation, they are not likely to respond to matters concerning race and color as we are. I do, however, believe were Tiger less African in color, features and physique, there would likely be more energy behind the point you make. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10458 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
BB123: "There are men who are virgins at 30 because they were not successful at dating as other men. I don't think they s hould be frowned upon or avoided. Somebody needs to give them a chance." I maintain a woman should be quite skeptical of coupling with a +30 year old virgin man. Because these days it is too dayam EASY for a man who has ANY sort of game and resources to get laid for a growna$sed (BLACK) man have to go +10 years of his adult life without him getting some pv$$y. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14418 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
I obviously have a different take on Tiger Woods than most others do. As previously mentioned, I was not a rabid fan of his because I didn't like his arrogant demeanor either in victory or defeat. And as far as perceiving him to be black, I have never done so. To me, Tiger is exactly what he says he is and he can get away with his self-titled label because of who he is, and how he looks. His Oriental heritage is quite evident in his large almond shaped eyes. He is not dark-skinned and his hair is almost straight and the native American blood he makes claim to is manifested in his high checkbones. The only black looking thing about him are his thick lips. He is, in a word, "exotic" looking. I'm inclined to think that most white Americans do not think of him as an African-American. He has universal appeal and has transcended race, establishing his own brand wherein he is simply identified by the one-word moniker "Tiger". I also take exception to the assertion that the one drop rule still prevails in the year 2009. In my experience, people of both races have no problem with calling bi-racial people "mixed" as opposed to "black". As for women shunning a 30-year-old virgin, theoretically, there is no reason to do this any more than a man should shun a 30-year-old female virgin. Some people are ideal enough to want to save themself for the right one and are virgins by choice and in the interval may be satisfied with self-gratification. And there's something to be said for hooking up with a person who is not a carrier of STDs. Who is to establish the rules where such matters are concerned???? When it comes to lovers there is no guarantee that practice makes perfect. Some oafs never impress in the bed no matter how experienced they are. A desireable lover can be about having naturally good instincts and a 30-year-old male virgin could be mature enough to familiarize himself with what he is supposed to do when he does "take the plunge". Women should follow their own intuition when it comes to appraising a man. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2063 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
While I don't think a 30+ year old virgin should be "shunned", I do think addtional scrutiny or "skepticism" is warranted in today's day and age. Of course there is a double standard for 30 year old virgin men vs women. Of course whites folks think of tiger as Black -- espeically when something like this happens. You saw how fast OJ became Black | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14423 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I disagree about how white people perceive Tiger. If they really considered Tiger black, they wouldn't be so disappointed in his behavior. They would've expected that type of ghetto behavior from him. I still maintain that Whites don't think of Tiger in terms of race, preferring to accept what he considered himself to be. Which is not black. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14424 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
BTW, nobody every disputed OJ's racial make-up. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10461 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy: "Of course there is a double standard for 30 year old virgin men vs women." Honestly, I would probably avoid a +30 year old virgin woman at least as much as I think a mature woman should avoid a +30 year old virgin man. What growna$sed (BLACK) man would want to endure THAT experience (i.e., Debating with a chick about why she should give it up, then having to put up with her confusing sex with love and becoming heartbroken about such) AGAIN? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14425 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
You men need to go somehwere and sit down. YOU cannot speak for how a woman should view a 30-year-old virgin. Especially where religious women are concerned. YOU cannot speak about the attitude of a 30 year old virgin especially if she has decided to volutarily give up her chastity for reasons other than to ensure marriage. You are basing your assertions on how men think which is decidely different from they way woman view things. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3787 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Brownbeauty don't hold your breath waiting around for chinese people to start complaining, like Black people, about Tiger not choosing a chinese woman." Sorry, but Tiger Woods mother is Thai -not Chinese. Actually, she was born and rasied in Thailand with a Thai, Chinese and Dutch genetic mix. There would be no reason for the Chinese to claim him as their own. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2064 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ntfs_encryption, Thai, Chinese what is the difference? Seriously as far as Americans are concerned the differences are the same as a Nigerian compared to a Kenyian, a New Yorker Black, Haitian or a Brother the Mississippi Delta -- none! The same rule applies: Don't hold your breath for Thai women to complain... ABM would you be equally concerned about a son who was a virgin at 30 or a daughter? Cynique, OJ prior to the murders was "accepted" by white society. He was not viewed as "Black". Like Mike, MJ, or Tiger, OJ, in a way trancended race. But as soon as OJ cut that white girls's head off -- America quickly remebered they were dealing with a niqqer. | ||
| Nafisa_goma Veteran Poster Username: Nafisa_goma Post Number: 368 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, Africans don't have sculpted high cheekbones? I would say they do far moreso than Native Americans. Show me a Black African (not counting pudgy overweight ones) who doesn't have high cheekbones. I see this credit constantly being given to Indian blood when in fact angular cheekbones are as synonymous with black looks as full lips and a large nose. When people like Oprah or Monique slim down, you immediately see the famous African cheekbones, not Indian. Sorry to but in, but it's commonly noted amongst Yemenese (my country), Palestinians and Egyptians that they got their high cheekbones from Nubian ancestry. I expect you'll all be claiming that I'm really "Kola" so I won't even bother coming back for a round of denials. I am not. Happy Holidays  | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14431 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
We've discussed this before "Kola". Africans like you really are resentful of the revered place Native Americans now occupy in the spectrum of this country, and how both white and black people never seem to have a promblem laying claim to their "Indian" heritage. Asians also have high cheekbones, incidentally. | ||
| Moonsigns AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Moonsigns Post Number: 2087 Registered: 07-2004 Rating: |
Within a marriage, it's completely undiplomatic - and hazardous to the faithful partner's health - for a cheating spouse to think they can have their cake & eat it too. As much as human beings try to deny it (especially men), The Divine has clearly differentiated us from "animals". So, if people want to f*ck like unrestrained street animals, rather than behave like emotional & logical human beings, they should never get married. Plain & simple. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10467 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, I would be more concerned about a +30 year old virgin SON than I would be about +30 year old daughter. Because I think the implications of a MAN not getting any that late into is his life are more serious than are those of a similarly situated woman. Still, were I single, I likely would avoid a +30 year old woman like I would trying to catch the Swine Flu. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10468 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Moonsigns, If monogamy truly is and should be the dealbreaker of marriage, upwards of 75% of men should NEVER marry... | ||
| Moonsigns AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Moonsigns Post Number: 2090 Registered: 07-2004 Rating: N/A |
Abm, I have to agree; however, I'd say the numbers are closer to 50%. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2066 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Moonsigns, naturally, because of the nature of the data we will never know the true figures. However I would tend to agree with ABM's numbers. I think the out of wedlock births, the low marriage rates and the high divorce rate suggest the percentage is much higher than 50%. I think monogamy is something that has to be worked at really hard. It is like staying shape or getting an advanced degree -- it is not natural and most people never achieve it; or even try. I think, a deep and spirtually relationship is rarely achieved outside of a monogamous relationship. But again most men are not going to invest the effort -- assuming they even believe ths to be true. Unfortunately our society promotes behavior that is the exact opposite of what is good for us -- especially for Black folks. Sexual promiscuity is that the top of this list. We (Black men in particular) are constantly presented with images that appeal to our baser instincts. Even the behavior of women support our promiscuity. What percentage of women out there would sleep with a marriage man given the chance. Tiger found at least 14. Is there any doubt that he could have found many, many more? The VAST majority of men are ill prepared for marriage (willingness to be monogamous is at top of the list). We, not just Black folks, but most of America, have a long way to go... | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2067 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
 I've included this image beause I'm going to link this conversation to facebook and twitter. As part of the upgrade you'll be able to use your facebook account to log into the news discussion boards (if can get that feature to work). I also performining ongoing experiements to see how Twitter, Facebook and even myspace (does anyone still use that) can impact traffic to AALBC.com. Peace, Troy | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10472 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Troy, I view a man being monogamous to be akin to a man being a recovering alcoholic: Although he may avoid drinking for years and years, he is only ONE moment of weakness away from being a DRUNK all over again. And I wager MOST men are suspect of either the possibility and/or the value of attempting to achieve your (alleged) “deep and spiritual” connection with women to the extend that such would require their remaining faithful. Rather, most men who do not cheat likely are trying to avoid the hazards that come with such (e.g., heartbreak, divorce, pregnancy, STD’s, etc.). Or they are (for assorted reasons) especially INEPT at wooing sidebooty. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2074 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
ABM, Deep, and I hear you. Lets forget "most" dudes for a minute. Does this mean that you (personally) do not think there is some higher "spiritual", and more desireable, connection that can be developed with a woman through a monogamous relationship? Is that "deeper" relationship worht striving for, or is it just a pipe dream? I liken monogamy to physical fitness. Most people are out of shape. Most people don't have the time, inclination, desire, dedication to obtain physical fitness. Our culture makes it easier to stay out of shape, super sized portions, sedentary jobs, obesity becoming the "norm"). Since most people are out of shape they don't even know what it feels like to be fit; and therefore don't know what they are missing. Perhaps they don't even believe fitness is even possible or a worthy goal. Even the prospect of a premature death is a sufficent insentive to strive for fitness. I think the few men that are faithful really have found something great in their relationships that few of us will never achieve or really understand. I don't think they are faithful because they are trying to avoid a negative (heartbreak, divorce, pregnancy, STD’s, etc). Perhaps they are faithful because they are pursuing a positive -- a beautiful, deeply spirtual connection with a womam whom they share a mutally loving relationship. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 865 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Troy, your mention of Twitter in this thread made me think to Tweet you that I'm in the DMV until Monday, so maybe we can connect. However, I saw that you are accessing Twitter via web, and I thought my tweet might get lost in your stream, which I imagine is huge. Have you checked out TweetDeck or similar apps to make Twitter more manageable? | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10473 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, I am sure the women enjoyed your last post. It certainly feeds into much of the FANTASY many of them have about what they desire of us men, especially those of us who marry. But I am generally more REALISTIC (and perhaps a tad cynical) about what men generally are inclined think, want and do with respect to matters concerning sex. Our society is but a reflection of who and we we ALL truly want and are. So if MOST of us are cheating it is because it is that is MOST of us (for whatever reasons) WANT to do and we have not sought and/or found sufficient justification for US doing otherwise. Personally, I have been married for two decades now. I love and respect my wife. And I believe she and I are as 'spiritually bonded' as most foks are incline to have become over the time we have been together. But I probably would STILL do other chicks if the HAZARDS of doing such were not so cost-prohibitive. And, frankly, I don't in ANY meaningful way associate my desire to do so with my love for my wife. I am NOT attempting to justify or rationalize infidelity. I do not think that just because one feels a certain way means that he (or she) must DO as he (she) feels. Again, it is all for me just mostly an innate, INVOLUNTARY (and perhaps on some level PREDATORY) urge. A hunger that is never fully sated or a thirst that is never fully quenched. And let me add that MANY wives also cheat on their husbands. Some studies suggest that greater than FIFTY percent of married women will at some point engage in an extramarital affair. Women are not necessarily anymore apt to be willing to pursue and capable of achieving this glorious state of monogamous spiritual bliss you allude to. So it's interesting to me how the issue of the cheating husband is so often discussed in absentia of the rather high statistical probability that he's flukin' some other man's WIFE. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14443 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Why does this repetitive litany of rationales about straying spouses just keep going on and on and on???? I don't think there was one post on this thread that disputed the claim that people are polygamous by nature. People cheat on their mates and people who don't cheat on their mates may want to but don't. So what else is new?? | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2522 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
LOL @ "I am sure the women enjoyed your last post. It certainly feeds into much of the FANTASY many of them have about what they desire of us men, especially those of us who marry" ABM, I was thinking the same way! Troy could write a best seller with that spill. TD Jakes ain't got nothing on him. All that spiritual connection mess is for dreamers or, as you mentioned, guys that can't catch a chick in a female penitentary. I am not promoting infidelity, statistics tells that story, I am suggesting that your reasons, imo, are closer to the truth. If it wasn't for the stop signs, many men would rumble in the bush, regardless of their so called search for a lasting bliss or deep spiritual connection... IMO. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3762 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
I think monogamy is something that has to be worked at really hard. It is like staying shape or getting an advanced degree -- it is not natural and most people never achieve it; or even try. Well, I've accomplished 2 of the three. Should I be proud of myself? ;-) | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2524 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Lets see Yvettep, you have several degrees and you were the last winner of The Biggest Loser, right? *LOL* | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2076 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, which two are we talking about ;-) ******** Cynique, I raised the question because I've seen so many new books on the subject recently -- it is apparently an increasingly hot issue. Perhaps, after years of watching more of our children go to jail and fewer into college, the pendulum is swinging the other way? People really want to do the right thing in their relationships and families but they really do not know how. Cynique, I raised the question because I've seen so many new books on the subject recently -- it is apparently an increasingly hot issue. Perhaps, after years of watching more of our children go to jail and fewer into college, the pendulum is swinging the other way? People really want to do the right thing in their relationships and families but they really do not know how. In other cultures having a mistress is no big deal. The whole idea of a politician have a mistress being newsworthy is preposterous, the attitude is "So What?". These happen to be cultures where the women have less power than men. So the men indulge in there more baser instincts with impunity. The best the wife can hope for is that than man shows some semblance of discretion. This same is true here in America, we are just more hypocritical in our actions versus our words -- but that is text book American culture. Almost everyone says infidelity is bad but at the same time they rationalize the behavior and negate any benefits of being monogamous. Cynique perhaps we are polygamous by nature. Maybe this whole idea of marriage being a legally binding monogamous relationship between 1 man and 1 woman is too constricting, unnatural and antiquated. If we made it legal for a man to have 10 wives do you think he would not step out on them too? Maybe the rules of a marriage should be up to the individuals involved. People can choose whether or not they will be monogamous. They could also decide sexes and number of people in the “marriage”. ******* ABM, yeah you are coming across as a little cynical. ABM, Carey, do you believe that if we eliminated ALL of the negative consequences of infidelity that the rate of infidelity would go to 100%? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2238 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
ABM, I hope your wife doesn't read this post. I'd feel so sorry for her you make me not ever want to get married. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14448 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, at least you had something different to say on the subject, Troy, but ABM just keeps pounding home the same idea, just keeps talking about the subject as if he's trying to convince himself of something. OK, guy. We get it. No male is a one-woman man; at any given time under the right circumstances a dude will screw a woman other than his mate. Yada, yada, yada. BTW, Troy, I am not defending polegamy. In a perfect world, people would mate for life with their soul mates, never straying from the fold. But.. it's complicated. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2078 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, sure it is complicated and increasingly difficult. It just seemed to me the vast majority of our people have given up on the idea marriage (let alone monogamy). Brownbeauty123's post is what I fear most, and is unfortunately becoming typical. BB I would not give up on marriage. I would enjoy the experience of looking that perfect someone and choose wisely. (As an aside: I bet ABM has a terrific marriage his honestly, sense of humor, obvious intelligence, ability to communicate is indicative of that) I also think the spate of books on the subject is of Black relationships is a good thing. Sure some of the authors and publishers are trying to capitalize on the TD Jakes/Steve Harvey successes. But I sense an increasing urgency to do something about the disastrous state of our relationships and families. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2526 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
I am curious Ms. Beauty, what did ABM say that would make you sorry for his wife? I think he is merely being open and honest, and that my dear, is the core of a good relationship. I don't think there was anything he said that he wouldn't repeat to his wife. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I think he is voicing a view that many fake jakes are to phony to champion. But, don't let the chatter of the men (or women) move you off your spot. However, be forwarned that "marriage" in and of itself is not the key. Marriage is just a flimsy contract that is frequently broken. A good union of 2 individuals is the key. Odds are that if and when you do get married, it will end in divorce. Yet more importantly, divorce is not the end of the world. If one individual in a relationship is dependent on the other for their happiness, they could be in trouble. Troy: "ABM, Carey, do you believe that if we eliminated ALL of the negative consequences of infidelity that the rate of infidelity would go to 100%?" Okay Troy, I'll bite on that one. The answer is NO. But what does that say? I do not believe anyone said that was the only reason why some men do not stray. If you are trying to bring your TD Jakes back on the floor, it's your thang, run with it. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3764 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
No comment, y'all. lol Seriously, tho: marriage is a lot of fun. And a lot of work. I was one of those (perhaps few) women who always said I would never marry because I was sure I would never find a man who would support me through my ambitions. I am glad that I changed my mind when I met my spouse. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2528 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Okay ABM & Yvettep, the floor is open, do yawls thang :-) http://popup.lala.com/popup/576742270492383435 Troy, you and Cynique can join in. You know you want to. Chris, don't get mad at Troy. Sit back and watch a real playah... WOOF! | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 866 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Yvette wrote: Seriously, tho: marriage is a lot of fun. And a lot of work. Agreed. The 2nd time around, I'm looking forward to the fun, lol. Y, from our conversations online and off over the years, I've gotten a sense of your marriage that makes me say, "I want one like that." Silly string and all, lol. Maybe because of the silly string... ;-) I always wanted to get married, and so I did, way too early (for me). After my divorce, I decided that marrying again was not a given, but rather an option. As for the monogamy issue, I don't know if any generalizations, for women or men, hold. In my head, I can grasp the "humans are polygamous by nature" proposition, but like Cynique said, the ideal would seem to be sticking with one person for life. That's what feels right to me, for me. Strokes for folks, though. A few years back, I met a guy who seemed like a great fit for me in so many ways. But he believed in open marriage/relationships, and so things didn't work out for us. I still had/have a tremendous degree of respect for him; I don't see his preference as a flaw, and I appreciated his honesty. FTR, his first marriage ended in divorce, and they were both into the "open" thing, so so much for the theory that openness somehow guarantees successful marriage. In other news...it looks like I'm going to get to meet The Man, The Legend...Troy Johnson! *swoon* lol | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10474 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
BB123, My wife is aware of my thoughts of the subject. She and I (and married and single family & friends) have on LOTS of occasions had quite CANDID discussions about marital fidelity. And although she may be discomforted by some of what I have expressed here, she appreciates knowing what I REALLY think and feel. Because it is when people LIE about and HIDE the TRUTH of what is going on with them from each other (and themselves) the DEVIL in them can most effectively STRIKE. My wife and I are GOOD parents, business associates, citizens and (most of all) FRIENDS. We are GOOD counsel to each other. Her birth family and friends are now my family and friends and mine are hers. And we make fun of and laugh at and with each other all the time. My wife and I have a lot MORE invested in each other than where and how we use our genitalia. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10475 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, You ain’t NEVAH lied about the marketability of what Troy has been dealing here. I’ll bet all that "spiritual connection" spiel set some cQQchies to quivering so much some women who read it will want to give him 'some', even though, of course, he’s MARRIED. Hahahahaha!!! But, seriously, I agree marriage is only as good or bad as the quality of the UNION there in. And the style and quality of sex between them is only a PART of the deal. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10476 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, I believe if all the negatives consequences of extramarital sex were somehow wished away, infidelity would be so pervasive there would be little use for the reference to the term. Thanks for the compliments. And although my wife and I do not have the ‘perfect’ marriage (largely because NEITHER of us are ourselves ‘perfect’), we have done pretty well together. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3766 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
FK, ixne on the silly put-tay! lol I try not to talk too much about my marriage on line for many reasons. But in general, yes, it is equal parts mundane and wonderful, like many good marriages. Before I got married I would have assumed that those two things cancel each other out, that "real" marriages have a lot of drama to them--both amazingly good drama and heartbreaking, cry your eyes out drama. But I don't think that kind of heat and extremes can sustain a relationship for long. If folks want to get, be and stay married those kinds of unrealistic (e.g., Cornell West) attitudes about marriage have to change. And I also think no one should get married, ever, before 28 years old or so, preferably 30. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3767 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hey, FK, tell Troy "hey" for me! | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 868 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Yvette: Wait, it was silly putty, not silly string? Rawr! lolol Fingers crossed on connecting with Troy. He's a busy dude. ;-) | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3768 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Oops! Make that string-ay. But we ended up not using it. lol | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14452 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
During my 30-year tenure at the post office, I came across a broad spectrum of men, many of whom I became a confidante of. In spite of what is being claimed here, you might be surprised at the ones who were just lookin for a good woman they could hook up and settle down with. There were so many times when they would point out a chick to me who they claimed had offered them "some" but who they wouldn't screw on a bet. The females that I bonded with, similarly were lookin for a good man to be true to, their reason for fidelity being that one black man wasn't that much different from another one so they were willing to stick with the bird in the bush if he had job. Sorry, guys. Generalizing about this subject is a slippery slope but I think that love is the great equalizer. Once you fall in love with a person, it's easier to stick with them. My husband and I had a very comfortable marriage and were great buddies. His jobs were always ones where he had a lot of people contact, and white women, in particular, seemed to just love him because he was a good lookin, charming guy who I, incidentally, didn't hesitate to accuse of being a jive-ass con man but, wonder of wonder, he said he wasn't attracted to white women, and he would always find some little thing about others that he didn't like, crazy things like, her nose had a pock mark on it, or that her fingers looked like boiled shrimp. He described one women as somebody who looked like an oriental idol, and ridiculed another one because she had "calico" lips. He didn't like skinny legs or big feet or large butts, and claimed he was attracted to me because he liked my over bite, and - my dimples. He was a sucker for dimples. I liked him because, among other things, he never ceased to make me laugh; he was a great mimic and could recite dialogue word-for-word from his favorite old movies. I don't know if he ever cheated on me and I always figured that what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me. I did from time to time lust after other men - in my heart. We were married for 50 years, during which time we had a good ol time bangin 5 children into existence. I miss him a lot and if I seem irritable and impatient, it's because - a little of the sunshine went out of my life when he died. See ya soon, babe... | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 869 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, your man and your marriage sound wonderful. Grounded, and wonderful. In my face-to-face life, I've only personally known of 1 or 2 examples of marital success/longevity, and none up-close-and-personal, so I seek them out wherever I can find them. :-) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14456 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
It was a great ride, FK, and left with my fond memories, I never appreciated more how much my marriage enriched my life. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10477 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep: "I was one of those (perhaps few) women who always said I would never marry because I was sure I would never find a man who would support me through my ambitions. I am glad that I changed my mind when I met my spouse." Perhaps that is a more COMMON refrain of women than you know. My own wife has on at least a dozen occassions over the years expressed the exact SAME sentiment. Maybe it is the qualities (and quality) of woman HERSELF which largely determines whether she's able to find the man you describe. The bait you use determines the kind of fish you catch. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2239 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
[quote]I am curious Ms. Beauty, what did ABM say that would make you sorry for his wife? [/quote] No matter how good of a wife you are, your husband still would sleep with another woman. That's hurtful [quote] My wife and I are GOOD parents, business associates, citizens and (most of all) FRIENDS. We are GOOD counsel to each other. Her birth family and friends are now my family and friends and mine are hers. And we make fun of and laugh at and with each other all the time. My wife and I have a lot MORE invested in each other than where and how we use our genitalia.[/quote] All that isn't good enough if you would still want to be with another woman if given the opportunity. It wouldn't matter to me at all | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10478 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
BB123, My desire for other women has about as much to do with my wife as does her desire to overspend during the holidays have to do with me. NOTHING. So why should either of us be emotionally 'hurt' by such? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2240 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
ABM, I find it hard to believe that a woman especially your wife would not be hurt by hearing that from her husband. Unless you don't love each other anymore. Overspending during the Holidays is not the same as knowing your husband would bang another chick if given the opportunity I'm not so sure about marriage anymore. When I go out I see a lot of married men, especially older ones with wandering eyes.. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10480 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
BB123, I compared the desire to overspend and cheat because, again, NEITHER necessarily have anything to do with one's spouse. They are INNER cravings or desires, of sorts. And as I said before, just because one has desire to do something does not mean that one should and must DO such. Just because I might fancy another woman, does NOT mean I SHOULD pursue and screw her. Just like just because my wife gets her jollies off prowling Bloomingdales and Neiman Marcus does NOT mean she SHOULD max-out our credit cards. The only MATERIAL difference between me and a lot of other married men is I don't feel a need to LIE about and HIDE my sexual desire, especially when any SANE adult woman should already KNOW the truth about what is going on within MOST men, married or not. You sound like a child, one who still has A LOT of learning and maturing to do. Here's hoping you get the instruction and guidance you need. Or that you bless yourself (and some poor man) by AVOIDING marrying altogether. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14457 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
You're on point Brown Beauty. It's one thing to admit your predisposition to infidelity but quite another to try and justify this with a lot of specious arguments. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 870 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
ABM, I find it hard to believe that a woman especially your wife would not be hurt by hearing that from her husband. Unless you don't love each other anymore. BB123, you might be surprised at what love can sustain. In the immortal words of Sade: Love is stronger than pride. (Though I am in no way offering any commentary on ABM, his wife, or their marriage, as I am in no position to do so; just commenting generally.) Do you make a distinction between someone finding a person who is not their spouse desirable (i.e., bang-able), and someone acting on that desire? Some marriages can actually survive a wandering eye...as long as the desire isn't acted upon. Others would consider the wandering eye a deal-breaker. I have a happily married male mentor who told me that he develops crushes on women who are not his wife all the time. Sometimes these crushes are intellectual; often they are carnal, lol. His wife knows, and she just writes him off as pathetic, lol. He loves women and the company of women, but he knows what boundaries to observe to respect his marriage and honor his wife's expectations. I believe that marriage can be sustained and honored as long as the two people agree on where the boundaries lie. Others take the Cyniquian view: " I don't know if he ever cheated on me and I always figured that what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me." One last thing: Marriage is not a panacea. Some marriages actually survive infidelity; some people have had to include that in the "...for worse" part of keeping their vows. I'm not suggesting you should have no standards or expectations when it comes to a marriage mate, or that you should not express your strong desire for mutual monogamy to a potential mate. Just that disappointment and yes, hurt, in marriage, related to monogamy or any number things, is inevitable because human fallibility is inevitable. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3769 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
BB123, from the vantage point inside of a marriage, you have to look at actions in terms of their potential threat to the marriage. It may seem hard to believe, but money problems are often a bigger threat (or as big a threat) to many marriages as infidelity. Actually, the abuse of a couple's joint financial situation is a type of lack of fidelity: fiscal fidelity. Thus, hidden purchases, hidden bank accounts, gambling losses, consistent compulsive credit card purchases, and other such actions in the context of a marriage can all be seen as serious promise-breaking. So, I can see and agree w/ABM's point about making that comparison between sex outside of marriage and overspending. I think it is a fair and apt one. I do not agree that these things both have nothing or little to do with one's spouse. I think both kinds of infidelity (financial and sexual) have everything to do with one's spouse--or at least with one's commitment to the marriage. I also think that people use their power in their relationships in different ways, including in ways to hurt their spouse if they feel they are entitled to do so. Thus, some spouses may have sexual relationships with other folks, some will consistently rack up high credit card bills, some will refuse to help around the house, etc--often because these are the ways in which partners can "get back at" each other. BB123, I really do not think that the actions of the men you are talking about should discourage you from marriage. You do have to be willing to take a risk with your heart. And it may not end like a movie. But it may be quite worthwhile and meaningful for you. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 871 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
So, I can see and agree w/ABM's point about making that comparison between sex outside of marriage and overspending. I think it is a fair and apt one. I do not agree that these things both have nothing or little to do with one's spouse. I think both kinds of infidelity (financial and sexual) have everything to do with one's spouse--or at least with one's commitment to the marriage. I also think that people use their power in their relationships in different ways, including in ways to hurt their spouse if they feel they are entitled to do so. Thus, some spouses may have sexual relationships with other folks, some will consistently rack up high credit card bills, some will refuse to help around the house, etc--often because these are the ways in which partners can "get back at" each other. THIS! | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3770 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
I cross-posted w/FK. But as usual, her words are wise and on-point. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14458 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Don't get too discouraged, Brown Beauty. There are still some men out there who don't think with their penises. They may want to cheat but - they have enough will power to resist the temptation to do so should they get the chance. These are civilized men who reject their animal instincts.  | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14459 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Come on. Spare me all of this intellectualizing about infidelity and over spending being interchangeable. The difference between infidelity and over spending, is the element of betrayal! A women may forgive but will never forget that her mate cheated on her. A husband will over look his wife's shopping spree and forget about it as long as he doesn't have to pay the bill. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2530 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: "You're on point Brown Beauty. It's one thing to admit your predisposition to infidelity but quite another to try and justify this with a lot of specious arguments" She may be on point,but she's off the mark. And, you are leading her down a road of self destruction. Justification and rationalizations are different from adult reasoning. Why confuse them? Look, it's become obvious she's stuck in an perception of men and marriage that at the present time, will have her looking down a rabbit hole for all the wrong reasons. ABM hit her hard when he said "You sound like a child, one who still has A LOT of learning and maturing to do". To some people that may have been out of bounds, but, if we are talking about solutions, I say it was just what the doctor ordered. Within this discussion, ABM has always given credit to opinions/statements that voiced a valid point, yet, on the other side, that courage and/or insight, does not seem to exist. So Cynique, in telling the young lady that she's on point, why don't you also tell her where she may be missing the point? | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3771 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Well, obviously I disagree, Cynique. I was not talking about a one-time "shopping spree." I am talking about a consistent lack of regard for a couple's financial plan. This can seriously hurt a relationship--as much, or moreso than sexual infidelity. And it is a type of betrayal. This is not over intellectualizing--money issues frequently are cited as reasons why couples enter therapy and even divorce. "Money incompatibility" is a frequently cited source of marital stress. He's a saver, she's a spender...he grew up in a family that bought a new car every five years while she grew up with the notion that you should maintain and drive a paid-for car, etc. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2531 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
WOW! I am a slow typist. I see many have already done that (gave her the real deal. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14460 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I stand by the statements that I made prior to your posts, Carey. You and ABM are voicing one point of view and if you 2 are not rationalizing doggishness I don't know who is. You are actually trying to sanitize infidelity. It is what it is. A lack of self control and a surrender to selfish desire. Not all men are this weak. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14461 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, we have to agree to disagree, Yvette. I still think marriage infidelity and compulsive shopping are apples and oranges. A person who is a compulsive shopper is dyfunctional. A man who cheats on his mate is a horny ol playa who couldn't pass up some strange pussy. The ramifications are not really the same. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2532 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
I am so proud of the women of Thumper's Place. Y'all should charge a fee for all the insightful opinions. But see, many may not know that Kitty is a professional on topics directly related to this. Also, Ms. Yvettep has lived in the house with individuals that have degrees in the field of pyhcology (behavioral pattern). Not to mention her own studies. And of course, ABM has admitted that he hasn't seen a big booty that didn't make his eyes wander. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14462 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Well, Carey are you composing your response, something that will as usual take the form of a reprimand or lecture about how I don't comply with your debate rules as you kiss up to others who say what you want to hear before you proceeed to offer some half-ass argument which consists of a rebuttal to something that hasn't been claimed. I can hardly wait. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14463 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Who doesn't know about FK and Yvette's sterling credentials? I make reference to them all of the time. And who besides the people participating in this debate is reading all of this???? Actually nothing was resolved. The impact of infidelity is murky. I'm sure Brown Beauty already knows that a good man is hard to find. But the very ones who are supporting ABM and his "theories" would appear to be examples of women who have lucked out with their men when it comes to faithfulness. How about that? I think the idea that the average married man is playing around on his wife or would if they could is a misconception. With a lot of males this isn't even an option. They are content to stay true to their wives because to do otherwise is too much trouble. That's what settling down is all about. Keep looking Brown Beauty. There may be some guy out there, who is looking for his one and only. The idea that you need counselling is ridiculous. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14464 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I know ol Carey thinks I gave myself those 5 stars on that 4:33 PM post but I didn't and I am really curious as to who did. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2533 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the commentary, Cynique. "I think the idea that the average married man is playing around on his wife or would if they could is a misconception" Again Cynique, you've open your mouth, just to hear yourself talk. Well, I will give you one star because you said "I think". Although YOU may think that way, statistics and the fact that men share more honestly while in the company of other men will prove you wrong. And since I've been around thousands of them, I think you are horribly wrong. Oh, what you may view as sucking up is the courage to give others their due props. On the other hand, YOU seldom if ever admit wrong or concede a point in which you may have spoken to soon. Expalin why that is? Drop you purse, your never to old to learn. Troy should be charging you. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 872 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: |
But the very ones who are supporting ABM and his "theories" would appear to be examples of women who have lucked out with their men when it comes to faithfulness. I'm not sure if I'm included in the supporters of ABM's theories here, but I don't consider myself to be. I think the issue of what "most men" think/do is irrelevant when it comes to BrownBeauty's concerns. As long as BrownBeauty, or any woman, are on the same page with her chosen mate about what is and is not in bounds, who cares what "most men" do or would do if there were no repercussions? From there, it's a matter of both parties honoring their word, and then whether or not the marriage can withstand the strife in the even that either party's fails to do so. If the "most men" theory is causing BrownBeauty to feel discouraged in terms of her chances of finding a faithful mate, then I too would encourage her not to throw in the towel, but rather to go after what she really wants, clear-eyed about marriage in all its complexity. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 873 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Sigh.. "in the EVENT that..." | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14465 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
On my way out the door to join my kids at their party to celebrate the new decade. FK, I commend you on disconstructiong the foolishness of Carey and ABM, making them both look silly. For Carey who is always so fixated on people backing up their statements, I have this to say. What statistics say that all men will cheat on their wives if given the chance to do so???? That is the essence of what you are saying and it is a ridiculous generality. YOU cannot speak for the millions of men in America. Infidelity really is an individual choice. You need to stop declaring yourself "right", and pronouncing others "wrong". Your opinion is not the gospel. As for your boy, ABM, any man who matter-of-factly plants the seed of distrust in his wife's mind by asserting that he would cheat if all conditions were right is lacking in wisdom. Honesty is not always the best policy when it relieves a person of the responsibility for his transgressions. Furthermore a woman doesn't take a vow not to be a shopaholic, but a man does takes a vow to forsake all others. To equate these 2 is to trivalize the very serious offense of infidelity. No matter how common it is, adultery is still the ultimate violation of TRUST. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14466 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I meant to say "deconstructing" the foolishness of Carey and ABM, not "disconstructing". | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3772 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
First, happy 2010 to you all! Now: I understand what you're saying, Cynique. And I agree about the seriousness of sexual infidelity and its impact on individuals and marriages. I am not trying to "equate" the two by trivializing sexual infidelity "down to" the level of fiscal infidelity: I am trying to elevate the seriousness of fiscal infidelity up to (or nearly up to) that of sexual infidelity. This whole conversation has been framed as one of men sexually cheating and women overspending. That is not the case. I have seen irreparable harm come to marriages when men have squandered children's college funds on pie in the sky financial schemes unbeknownst to the wives. I have known men who had hidden income and the IRS ends up going after the wife even years after the two separate (usually because she is easier to find). I have seen post-divorce relationships contain a constant element of extreme strain because ex-wives and "first families" do more poorly financially than the ex-husbands and their "second families." I am by no means in favor of either type of infidelity in marriage. I also do not buy the idea that sexual infidelity should be expected because it is "natural." As humans, it is also "natural" for us to want to kill non-related humans who are a threat to our territory, food supplies, and/or reproductive opportunities. Being well socialized means we do not act on that natural propensity. Men (and women) who cannot change their "natural" propensities to have sexual encounters with other partners after voluntarily marrying are not well socialized. Or, they are using this "natural" argument as an excuse--in other words, it is not that they "can't" but that they choose not to. Which is also a personal, not evolutionary, failing. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3773 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: Who doesn't know about FK and Yvette's sterling credentials? I make reference to them all of the time. Carey, Cynique was there through most of my trials and tribulations when I was getting my degree so she really does know of my "credentials" first hand. I really wasn't speaking from some "expert" point of view. Just offering my opinions and what I remember from other expert sources. If I ever do offer expertise on this board I'll be sure to charge Troy for it! LOL | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2534 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
It's my prediction that Ohio State creams Oregon in the Rose Bowl. Oh wait... what were we talking about? That's right, the same thing we were talking about in 2009. Let me see, Cynique was talking some foolishess, and Yvettep tried to rescue her with a few words of kindness. Then Cynique poo poo-ed her words of wisdom and tried to shift the focus to some obscure argument in a vain attempt to win a small point. Kitty came out of her boycott of 2009 to jump into the fray. She too was given the evil "stop hand" by Cynique, which forced her to really bring it all in. Feeling that her words may have been misunderstood, or they may have appeared as if she was being fried in the same pot with the sinister ABM, she came back to straigten out her words. In her last post, she made it clear that she understood ABM and loud mouth Carey's words but wanted to draw a distinction between theirs and hers. In that post she made it perfectly clear how and why they differed. But ol'Cynique still missed the point and called her post "a discontruction of the foolishness of ABM and his boy Carey". After waking from her Gin & Tonic slumber, Cynique came back to correct her spelling, but she didn't come back to say she read something in Kitty's post that eluded more sensible minds. Kitty, like Yvettep, have no problem disagreeing with Cynique. Although they both know she can be so stuck in her opinion that she will never "tap out", they generally find words that speak softly yet carry a big stick. They're all friends, they're sisters of the struggles, so they don't want to hurt ol'Cynique. Besides, in the past when others have tried to rescue the south-sider she has vehemently rejected their rescue rope. So once again Yvettep has come back to give Cynique a love tap while correcting that ass. Yes, we start the new year with a few words of kindness while doing what we do in Thumper's Corner. If I can borrow a line from The Last Poets... "Niggas will lie and bullshit" *lol* | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14467 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ain't Yvette a "sweetheart"?? She and Ferocious Kitty are my "gurls"! They have so much class! Just one of the reasons why I respect the opinions that their expertise fortifies. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, when last we left those 2 dudes ABM and his faithful sidekick, Carey, they were reiterating the mantra that casts all married men as being one opportunity away from jumpin the bones of a desireable woman. We can only assume that their claims about this irrespressible male urge is what spurs all of those fathers to take advantage of their seductive step daughters, or all of those brothers to molest their provocative sisters. Maybe Carey can draw a conclusion from his bull sessions with thousands and thousands of men from every walk of life and vindicate this common situation. Ya think? No way. He's too busy trying to deflect attention from his "foolishness" by trying to discredit me. Pitiful. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14468 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Did I say "dudes"? I meant "dud"s. BTW, Carey, you and a_woman still burnin up the phone lines??? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14469 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ol Carey always believes he has things all figured out, especially when it comes to me. He could save his lame brain a lot of strain if he would just realize that people don't need him to do their thinking for them. It's obvious that he can't hardly think for himself, much less try to tell others what he has wrongly figured out. Sorry, doofus, your attempt to explain the actions of Yvette and FK, fell flat because it was so obvious how miffed and disappointed you were that they didn't fall for your suckin up and pat you on the head. Now go back to jackin off as you imagine yourself in an empty morgue about to take advantage of an opporunity to mount the cadaver of a really fine female who is lying there on a slab. Won't that be a great experience to share with all your barbershop buddies! | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2536 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Damn! Northwestern came back on Auburn. I'd better call my son so we can kick it while we watch the Rose Bowl together. Meanwhile, back at the ranch. Carey was wondering why Cynique mentioned A_womon. Carey hasn't talked to her in a couple of months, so he dismissed Cynique's hater-aid as another of her vain attempted to cover her tracks. But wait... it's snowing outside and Carey spots footprints in the snow leading to his humble abode. He peeps out his window, and low and behold, it's Cindagorilla, AKA Cynique. Oh no, she's again trying to hide under the skirts of the real Cinderallas, Kitty and Yvettep. Although she knows her big crusty feet can not fit in a size 13 slipper, she nevertheless forces the issue. She's heard saying... "these be my gurls". Carey opens the door just like he does with all the Johavah witnesses. She doesn't even offer him a prayer clothe or a copy of The Final Word. Nope, she screems out, Dude, Duds,and foolishness. Those words of wisdom fall out of her wrinkled lips. Carey started to invite her into his home until see mentioned ABM. Carey also realized that see was still a little woozie from her night of partying, and thus, didn't want her to throw-up on his new rent-a-center reclining chair. He asked her to wipe the duck butter out of her eyes and the snot from her nose so they could talk. Cynique told him to stfu, and that him and ABM, are nothing but child predators in waiting. Carey was perplexed by her lose of balance and her continued desire to swing the issue to deviate activities. Carey leaned back and looked at her as if she'd lost her freakin mind. Then he wondered who had opened the orignal post that made Cynique exhibit such bizarre behavior? My gawd, it was the evil webmaster Troy Johnson. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14473 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
What a corny comeback, Carey. And as usual you have to fall back on your paranoia about people being haters in a failed feeble attempt to imply that you are a lovable good guy completely free of the animosity and sneakiness that you do a poor job of disguising. Bad show. With all of the time you spent on it, your little fairy tale was - yes, you guessed it, a sophomoric "dud", sorely in need of proof-reading. BTW, the word is spelled "scream" not "screem", and the fact that you can't spell the simplest of words gives a clue about you, Carey. You are a careless, flawed thinker. It's lost on you that the particular mindset you espouse and defend when it comes to controlling a man's carnal desire is shared by sexual predators who, like you, consider illicit behavior as just "boys being boys", just guys doing something to be put on a par with stealing socks from a department store; no harm done as long as you aren't caught. It's all comes back to duplicitous rationalizing. Of course that's too obvious for you to grasp. Personally, I don't care what sexual escapade you and ABM indulge in. My input into this discussion is mainly inspired by your desperate attempts to ridicule and dismiss any female - or male who questions your excusing infidelity. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2537 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, you are quite right. Well, on a few things. That thing took me about 5 minutes to write, not "With all of the time you spent on it". But yes, I have to admit that I am stuck in ebonics. Yes, that little thang was sorely in need of proof reading. But, it appears you knew exactly what I was saying. But, at last, you have found something that makes you smile. Good girl! Although you may not have appreciated the humor, I can surely understand why :-) But see, once again, here you go talking nonsense. This one was a beauty. Cynique wrote: "My input into this discussion is mainly inspired by your desperate attempts to ridicule and dismiss any female - or male who questions your excusing infidelity" ahh, excuse me, splain dat to me?! Your imput was WHAT? And my attempt was to ridicule and dismiss females?! Okay, that's yours. You're either a sore loser or you take this way to seriously? Okay, I am ready, hit me with your best shot. Tell me to stfu *LOL*. I will do just that if you show me yours. But before I go, would you please check my spelling. BTW, Ohio State beat Oregon. See, you better start listening to me. I am trying to put money in your pockets and smack that ass at the same time :-( | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14474 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
What "humor" was this that I didn't appreciate, Carey? You know me. I have this thing about humor having to have an element of truth in it. Me walking barefoot through the snow to your house?? Puleeze. Impossibly far fetched and not funny. Just silly. And I haven't lost anything so why would I be a "sore loser". You really consider yourself the umpire around here, - calling the strikes and balls and declaring yourself a winner and others losers. Only problem with this is that you don't know what you're talking about cuz you can't think straight. I'll try and make this simple for you: You and your cohort continually ridiculed Troy and Brown Beauty because of their idealistic yearnings about marriage. When I told Brown Beauty she was "on point" when she reprimanded ABM for comparing his cheating on his wife with his wife overspending on clothes, that was when the second phase of my participation in this discussion began. BTW, I'm a Big 10 loyalist, so I didn't need you to tell me that OHIO STATE would beat Oregon. I don't take all of this too seriously, because it's hard to take you seriously. But be my guest, and don't stfu. Just ramble on and on and on.  | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2538 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"BTW, I'm a Big 10 loyalist, so I didn't need you to tell me that OHIO STATE would beat Oregon" My brain was leaking, my prediction was actually for a guy from California that I was arguing with @ his blog. I just threw that in over here. I told him the Pac 10 should be called USC and the other 9 losers. And USC finished 6th in their conference. He told me I was starting 2010 with a warped mind. He also said the only thing Ohio State would take back to the Big !0 is a sun tan, and memories from the Rose Bowl parade. I think I'll go back to his house and do a little gloating. Although I am from Iowa, it's gonna be Georgia Tech by +10. I may be a big 10 loyalist (most of the time), momma didn't raise a litter of fools. Iowa's football team was very lucky this year, and their basketball team sucks. See, even Duke knows that you have to have brothas on your basketball team to have any hopes of winning. Well, Iowa should change their name from the Hawkeyes to the Pale Ghosts. Iowa lures Brothas to the state with promises of moonlight hayrack rides and white girls. They honor their promise and then throw them in jail for rape -- on a white girl. Yes, our last black point guard (Pierce) wishes he'd never seen a white girl or the state of Iowa. Btw, that chick called Palin was a big hit around here. During the run for the white house, they even brought out cheer leaders from the high school... REALLY! | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2241 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"You sound like a child, one who still has A LOT of learning and maturing to do. Here's hoping you get the instruction and guidance you need. Or that you bless yourself (and some poor man) by AVOIDING marrying altogether." ABM could you please refrain from the put downs Now you did say that you would sleep with other women if you could get away with it. I don't know too many women who wouldn't feel insecure knowing this from their husband. I know that if I were married I'd want my husband to be satisfied with me in every way possible; knowing that he still loves me even though he would like to have sex with other women is just not enough for me at all. I don't care how good of a husband he is. I would want to divorce him. "Some marriages can actually survive a wandering eye...as long as the desire isn't acted upon. Others would consider the wandering eye a deal-breaker. I have a happily married male mentor who told me that he develops crushes on women who are not his wife all the time. Sometimes these crushes are intellectual; often they are carnal, lol. His wife knows, and she just writes him off as pathetic, lol. He loves women and the company of women, but he knows what boundaries to observe to respect his marriage and honor his wife's expectations. I believe that marriage can be sustained and honored as long as the two people agree on where the boundaries lie. Others take the Cyniquian view: " I don't know if he ever cheated on me and I always figured that what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me." One last thing: Marriage is not a panacea. Some marriages actually survive infidelity; some people have had to include that in the "...for worse" part of keeping their vows. I'm not suggesting you should have no standards or expectations when it comes to a marriage mate, or that you should not express your strong desire for mutual monogamy to a potential mate. Just that disappointment and yes, hurt, in marriage, related to monogamy or any number things, is inevitable because human fallibility is inevitable." If I had a husband who frequently developed crushes on other women it would just drive me incredibly insane. Nor could I turn a blind eye to his eye wandering while we are in public. I'd lose respect for him and want a divorce. When I go out and I see other men looking at other women while with their s/o, I find it quite sad IMO. I wouldn't want a spouse like that. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10482 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
All, I don’t know whether they qualifies as “crushes”. But over the years I have had ongoing minor ‘flirtations’ with other women that have evolved from discussions, laughter, mutual exchanges of goodwill, shared successes, etc. My wife is aware of what goes down and does not appear threatened by such. At least, I HOPE she is not, especially since most of those women were friends of hers BEFORE they befriended me. But having desire for other women (or men) is only an issue for ones wife (or husband) to the extent that a husband (wife) does or doesn’t ACT on that desire. We ALL have desires for things we may NEVER actually DO. Should we be condemned for ALL desires that may yield negative consequence? I NEVER ogle, pursue and/or come-on to other women. My eye does not “wander” to the extent that my wife or most other women would be discomforted by such. In fact, unless we are kin and/or friend, I wager MOST women – regardless of whether I find them to be attractive - would IN PERSON find me to be indifferent and aloof of them. Based on how I actually deal with them, I'd bet MOST women might be SURPRISED they give me a boner. I TOTALLY agree financial infidelity can be every bit as destructive as sexual infidelity. Moreover, I know several men who have been utterly destroyed by wives wouldn’t so much as even LOOK at other men. Lastly, I espouse NO “theories” of any sort. I have performed no scientific studies of marital fidelity. What I have expressed here is based on what I have heard, experienced and read. If others derive some benefit from that, GREAT. If they do not, GREAT. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10483 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
BB123, I maintain most men are going to grapple with issues of sexual fidelity, especially if they are good, strong and virile men whom other women find attractive. But I have NOT made an sort of point of declaring to my wife MY desire to bone other women. If anything, I have made general comments on the subject about what I believe men in general and under certain circumstances are inclined to think and do. But she - like MOST other women - is smart enuff to read between the lines. I am sorry if you feel insulted by my prior posting. In hindsight, rather than saying you “sound like a child”, perhaps it would have been better if I said you are being ‘naďve’, or something of the sort. I still think you have a LOT to learn about men and marriage. Men are going to have motivations and urges that no ONE woman – regardless of how wonderful she may be - can satisfy. But, ultimately, it is up to you and your future mate(s) to decide what lessons you will learn. And whatever you choose to do, I hope you find mutual happiness therein. Btw: There are things my wife say and do that have at times bugged the FLUK out of me. But the BALANCE of what we have between us much more POSITIVE than it is negative. I imagine my wife performs a similar sort of cost-benefit analysis with regards to what I say or do that bothers her. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10484 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey: “ABM has admitted that he hasn't seen a big booty that didn't make his eyes wander.” Considering the context in which you wrote that, does this mean I should be proud to be considered a ‘professional’ A$s Watcher? HAHAHAHAHA!!!! | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2539 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
ABM, only a professional would have caught that little inclusion. I mean, 1-2-3, A-B-C, yes, professionals... ALL THREE! But see, through all this debate, I think your last few posts said it all. There's nothing wrong with a wandering eye (we all do it "girls & boys") but one should not let their eye, lead them to the wrong pie :-) Yes ABM, you are the offical-professional Booty Watcher of Thumper's Corner. Take a bow! | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2243 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"There's nothing wrong with a wandering eye" Yes there is. I find it disrespectful when men do it with their S/O. And not everyone does this | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2540 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Okay Brown Chocolate, maybe we should define the words "wandering eye"? I do not believe anyone is talking about the perverted ogle. Well, at least I am not. It's safe to say that everyones eyes wander as we go through our daily lives.Be it a mall or a grocery store, it's a basic function to see where one is going. Only a blind persons eyes do not move left and right. If you are talking about a fixated stare at another persons package, I might agree with you, but to imply that men and/or women do not appreciate the beauty of another person, could be misguided. Futhermore, since my reference (in part) was directed to ABM, he had already explained his position, by the following words (and much more): ABM: My eye does not “wander” to the extent that my wife or most other women would be discomforted by such" Are we home? Can we reach some sort of agreement? Well, let me ask, if and when you find your soul mate, would it be wrong for him or you to look below another persons hair-line? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14475 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
ABM states: "Lastly, I espouse NO “theories” of any sort. I have performed no scientific studies of marital fidelity. What I have expressed here is based on what I have heard, experienced and read." Theorizing is just what you described yourself as doing, ABM. Certain speculations are called "theories" because they are not backed by concrete scientific proof, and the popular usuage of the word "theory" is defined as "a mere conjecture or guess." Your post attempting to absolve yourself, however, was a valiant exercise in damage control, if for no other reason than that, implicit in your "mea culpa", was an indication of your being a "closet lecher".  But - who cares?? I don't. It's a free country and you really don't owe anybody an explanation. Salivate on! | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10485 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey: "Yes ABM, you are the offical-professional Booty Watcher of Thumper's Corner. Take a bow! *proudlybowing* |
