| Author | Message | ||
     Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2416 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
 This is not an indictment of Harriet Tubman, nor an attempt to minimize her accomplishments. This is about the greatness of Oprah Winfrey. I said Oprah Winfrey is probably the greatest black woman that has ever walked this earth, and then challenged anyone to bring a contender. A wonderful and knowledgeable man stepped in the door with Harriet Tubman in tow. I said, nig*a please. Don't take this wrong but I said Harriet Tubman couldn't shine Oprah's shoes. Lets be real about this, 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell you 1 iota of Harriett Tubman's accomplishments. Don't believe me, ask it, try it, see how you like it? Many "might" say she's an old black slave. Some might even say she's Ozzie's wife. Some ARE going to say she was the woman that refused to give up her seat on that bus. Really, the fact that several individuals can not relate to Harriet Tubman, and knows little or nothing about her, gives a small clue to her inability to wear greatness. She may have championed a cause, and consequently, was a bone for those who wanted to champion a black person in American history, but.... Great is reserved for those that far exceed the accomplishments of others and spreads their "wealth" and "knowledge" along the way. Greatness is reserved for those that break through the glass ceiling and then puts that ceiling in the basement. Greatness is reserved for those that have the courage and wisdom to withstand attacks from the front & the back, from the rich & the poor, from BLACKS & WHITES. Great is reaching back to give back. Greatness is reaching back to a land that most blacks could call home. Some call it the motherland. Although money is not the road to happiness, it's great that Oprah has given hundreds of millions of dollars to causes that nobody else dared to attack or even mention. Great is a person that can win the approval of others in spite of their skin color. Oprah stands alone in her greatness. Although many women have done great things, those accomplishments pale in comparison to those of Oprah Winfrey. Her greatness extends beyond the boarders of America. Oprah is the GREATEST of them all. There are no challengers to her crown. Not yet anyway. ~CareyCarey | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14342 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Stop foisting your definition of greatness on others, Carey, especially since you continue to equate it with being well known. People who elevate Winfrey to a position of adulation are the gullible masses who are bedazzled by superficiality. Oprah is a fluke, - a black woman who white America let slip though. Even so, she is subjected to racism just like everybody else, and she has not made a big difference in how Blacks are treated in America. There is nothing heroic about her. She's a ego-centric TV diva who, like most rich people, gives to charity for tax purposes. Can the hyperbole and stop the fawning. It's unwarranted. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2417 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Next. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2418 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: "People who elevate Winfrey to a position of adulation are the gullible masses who are bedazzled by superficiality" "She's a ego-centric TV diva who, like most rich people, gives to charity for tax purposes" "especially since you continue to equate it with being well known" Cynique, since your above statements are groundless and stupid, and the classic example of hater dribble, I am not going to debate with you. That would be a classic example of a fools errand. I would have respected your opinion if it wasn't filled with so much negativity. A hater, like a fool, can not concede any issues, that goes against their warped opinion. An opinion, I may add, that lacks facts. But, to be fair though, I am going to post your remarks at another place. Here are some that will precede yours. They didn't all agree with me, but notice the difference in their tone. They didn't try to downplay Oprah's accomplishments. That would be foolish. If others agree with you, or disagree with me, it's my hope and belief they will do it with a little more class. Solomon said... What are you saying Carey? Is there a challenger out there lurking to take away her crown? I'd like to see that. That would be amazing if anyone could pull that one off. November 20, 2009 10:05 PM uglyblackjohn said... (Winnie) Mandella, cell dwella'? No? How about; Mary McLeod Bethune Sojourner Truth? No? They couldn't stalk her? Let me add Sarah Beedlove Walker? I'm not hatin', no. But these are just as great as the "O". November 20, 2009 11:20 PM jjbrock said... Carey I love your post and I agree 100%. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14343 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oooooh shut up, Carey. You're soooo tiresome. Just because you are a groveling disciple of Oprah de Jesus who worships at her big crusty feet, and think it's a sin to expose her for what she is, doesn't make your extravagant claims actual reality rather than sugar-coated opinions. What you have to say is not sacrosanct and I don't have to tailor my remarks to suit your approval. Who are you?? Just some fool who wants to control what others say. You continue to wallow in your self-appointed role as the arbitrator of propriety around here when all you and your self-righteous gibberish represent is "the sound and the fury on an idiot saying nothing". Oprah is not a latter day Mother Teresa. She is a flawed cultural phenomeon and "Babylon" is her venue. But that's an assement that requires too much perspective for your limited mentality to comprehend. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2420 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oh, that's good, attack me. More unsubstantial Bullsh*t. Next. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14345 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Like you didn't attack me. Blind to your own insipidness, as usual. I'm waitin on your "substantiated" response. Your idolization of Oprah is not a substitute for facts. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3733 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
We'll only know if Winfrey could be counted as among the "greatest" if people still know her name a hundred years after her death. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3734 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
BTW, at first I thought that Winfrey and Tubman had something in common in that neither had biological children. Then, I googled, tho, and found that there is some speculation that a girl Tubman portrayed as her niece was really her daughter. What a fascinating jumping off point for a historical novel--Along the lines of all these "The ____'s Daughter/Wife" books! Does anyone know if this has been written about? | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2422 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"We'll only know if Winfrey could be counted as among the "greatest" if people still know her name a hundred years after her death" Yevettep, I hear you, and that's a very interesting point. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10436 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Yvettep: "We'll only know if Winfrey could be counted as among the "greatest" if people still know her name a hundred years after her death." So then we have to wait another 60 years to determine whether Dr. Martin Luther King Jr deserves to be considered one of our "greatest" people? | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10437 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, Do you consider OPRAH to be the greatest AFRICAN AMERICAN - male or female - to have ever LIVED? Your argument APPEARS to suggest that is what you believe. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3737 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, my statement was meant to follow up on Carey's comparison. About 100 years after Tubman's death we still know her name. Can the same be said of Oprah? We will not know for a while now. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2424 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
ABM, I have to think about that one. I think I qualified my statement by say "black women". I seem to be getting the same arguments at another site. In short, although I said Oprah was the grestest, it was my hope that others would bring another contender and THEN qualify their inclusion. I've mostly been subjected to anti- Oprah and not pro so-n-so. If not Oprah, then who? One person said Ms. Tubman gave her life. Well, so has Oprah on several levels (small point). Another person said Oprah is nothing but a celebrity. That argument is simply not true. One even said that Ms. Tubman fought for slavery which touched all our lives. My response: Negroes have been free for damn near 150 years, but their minds have been locked by the images of white folks, and negores championing a tradition that's long been gone. The ballot is stronger than the gun and singing old hymns like..."we shall over come" is fodder. Oprah has influenced a million times more individuals than Ms. Tubman. And although many wish to throw Oprahs money in her face, her money and fame has been a vital influence in the election process and has allowed her to voice her views in places no other black woman has ever gone . Her voice is our voice. Again, negroes have been free, but Oprah has been instumental in changing the laws and the mindset of those that have the power to change them. None of what I've said can be disputed. It may be debatable, but the facts will remain the same. If someone can dispute a single point, they are still left with the full and document package of Oprah Winfrey. The ballot vs the bullet vs the talk. ....Changing of mindse,st that starts the path of a new beginning and real change. ...Giving the children something they can feel and believe in. Giving the children a positive roll model. ...Spending her money and time for worthy causes. Bringing our hidden treasure to the sufface to be beckons and inspiration for legions of future black children. I want others to compare Oprah in all her flavor, to someone with the same qualifications. Perceived flaws aside, I am looking for true comparisions. Many are moving on their emotions and their dislike of Oprah. I don't know AMB, I have to think about that man issue. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14349 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Who is Carey to solicit opinions about Oprah so that he can pass final judgment on them like he's some kind of a wise King Solomon. Talk about delusions of grandeur. Ridiculous. Nobody is obligated to give him an explanation as to why they don't think Oprah is a demi-god. And who really cares why he does think she's one. How can you take seriously a guy who seems totally oblivious to the fact that there are thousands of black people who do all the good positive things Carey attributes to Oprah, but who you just don't hear about because they aren't high profile. They are just hard-working dedicated people who make a difference in the lives of people of their little communities. And I question whether if you went among a bunch of kids and asked who they admired and wanted to be like, that they would all chime in "Ooooooprah Winnnnnnfrey". Her contemporaries relate to her more than children do. Oprah's "Mother Boutiful" image all seems to be a maudlin figment of Carey's imagination. Unless, of course, you are counting the "mammy" figure she represent to suburban white women. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2426 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Carey had you been in the wine cabinet when you posted this? Or did you get a prepaid visa card from Harpo productions?Oprah is simply entertainment for the doped up mass public.I love you my friend but put the wine back in the cabinet! Bigmac" (BigMacInPittsburg) Okay Big Mack Attack, don't make me pull out my knife (lol). Yes, Oprah is entertainment but so much more. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2014 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Cynique the first word that popped into my head after reading Carey's last piece was, "delusional". Carey you do realize that Oprah has zero influence on the vast majority of men. In fact you could probably find a substainial number Black men who feel she is a negative influence and is perceived as a man basher. Oprah has never been married, never rasied a family, arguably she knows less about these fundamental relationship issues, that people revere her for, than the average person. Personally, I have not seen the Oprah show in over 20 years -- seriously. I would not be caught dead picking up an O magazine. The only thing of interest to me that Oprah produces is when she picks a book authored by a Black person for her book club -- and THAT is only because I know I'll increase my revenues my making sure the book is one my site -- not because I'm particularly interested in her opinion. That is not so say that Oprah has not accomplished a great deal in the entertainment industry and as become fantastically wealthy as a result. Carey, I could easily fill a very large room with people I know personally that: Give a higher percentage of their "money and time for worthy causes" Give "children a positive roll [sic] model." They are the parents who sacrifice and work hard raising their children and serving as positive roles models just by being and doing. Carey there is nothing you've said about Oprah that is really so extraodinary that make her greater than a good parent, teacher, or Pastor. I'd even bet money that even Oprah herself would not consider herself greater than Harriet Tubman. No one in their right mind would... | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2427 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
Well Troy, you don't know how grateful I am that you showed up. Again, you seem to be missing the point. You've consistantly lingered in negativity. but in your haste to trash Oprah, you admittedly have prospered from her existance. But slow your roll, I have a post on it's way that I know YOU will find interesting. So you can keep that slow drag until another time. I'll be back. If we are speaking about right minds. I would suggest that you might learn a little something from this next post. Really, if you are looking for right, with a right mind, stay tuned. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3738 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
I think Tubman is the wrong historical figure to compare Winfrey to. A more apt comparison, IMO, is Madame C. J. Walker. In 100 years OW will still be known and lauded for her business acumen and wealth-building in a time (our time) when it was rare to see Black women as wealthy multi-media moguls. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14353 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Oh Jeeze. Is this forthcoming post going to be composed by you, Carey? If it's in the same vein as what you wrote below then I am already prepared to find a compass to navigate me through the murky seas of your logic. Classic Carey: "A few of Troy's remarks appeared to have a goal of playing to those who didn't see one of my lines "Couldn't shine her shoes" as a cliche. He knows there are several intelligent individuals that read this board with a very discerning eye. Hence, his remarks were like a slap in the face to THOSE "other" than the few that have a tendency to take a cynical approach to most comments that hit this board. Therefore, my rebuttal to his lowball approach still stands. My original post speaks for itself." WTF? What you said makes about as much sense as Chinese Arithmetic. But you seem driven to carry on in your campaign to prove how great Oprah is. Hopefully you will take into consideration that this adjective "great" has several connotations. And no matter how much you aggrandize the failed Olympic cheer leader, and the baggage the Obama campaign wanted kept out of sight, you cannot obliterate how what millions of people consider Oprah to be is a great pain in the ass. Hitler was, after all, a great dictator. Contrary to what might be thought. I don't really dislike Oprah. I like to poke fun at her. She does what she does. More power to her. But what she does, does not compare with the expertise and bravery and determination that it took for Harriet Tubman who, under the cover of night with only the moon and the stars and the direction of rivers to guide her, led slaves out of bondage to where they could breath free air | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14354 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
You are right, Yvette, and the fact that Carey chose to place Oprah Winfrey and Harriet Tubman in the same category is an example of how his thinking is always off the mark, making his propositions not proven by his conclusions. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2016 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Carey where did I "Trash" Oprah. Personally, I don't have anything against her. In many ways I'm proud of her accomplishments. You challenged folks to name a woman we thought were greater than Oprah. I can think of many, but I figured I'd mention someone that would be a "no-brainer"... ...But a brain, it seems, is indeed required. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2428 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
That's a good one Troy. I am glad you have a sense of humor. Yevettep, I hear you loud and clear. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2017 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I'm glad you have a sense of humor too Carey ;-) However I still could not be more opposed to this particular opinion of yours. Peace my Brother. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2435 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
"I'm glad you have a sense of humor too Carey ;-) " Ditto-Ditto-Ditto Troy: "However I still could not be more opposed to this particular opinion of yours" Be rest assured ( as we've all seen) that you're not the only one :-) Yet, there are those that saw the light at the end of this tunnel. Here's an example: "Freeman (Bookman), what is a hero but someone you admire for their qualities and/or accomplishments and be inspired by them? Need someone die before an individual can do this? No. Barack and Michelle Obama are currently two of the biggest heroes out there for a lot of people, and last I checked, they're alive and well. Plenty of people were considered heroes when they were alive, from the personal heroes in one's family or community, to those who made the news. I'm old enough to remember ML King being a hero to many before a bullet put him in his grave, sending thousands of broken-hearted black folks to rioting in the streets. I think you're being argumentative for the sake of winning the argument, and in this case, THAT COULDN'T BE MORE DESTRUCTIVE. By limiting or confining the definition of 'hero' to the dead and "for the next generation" to figure out, you unwittingly HELP THE OPPRESSOR lock this generation of people into the mentality of the TIME'S NOT RIGHT YET, for those kinds of changes. The time was never right to end slavery, desegregation, to vote or to put a black man in the White House. So eff living on their clock, or being dependent upon how they'll revise history in the BOOKS for the yet unborn. You can beat THOSE POINTS to death if you want, but let us know what YOU WIN and what we have to gain from this" Troy my Brother, peace be with you too. Btw, stop calling me the scarecrow, I have a piece of a brain *lol* | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10438 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Yvettep, You still have NOT answered my original question: "So then we have to wait another 60 years to determine whether Dr. Martin Luther King Jr deserves to be considered one of our "greatest" people?" Carey, Based on the criteria you appear to present, one can reasonably conclude that Oprah is the greatest African American PERSON - male or female - to have ever live. Because certainly NO other Black person has achieved the degrees of wealth, fame, power and glory that she has achieved. It's interesting how you very freely assert Oprah's dominance over the greatest of other Black WOMEN yet avoid doing such with respect to Black MEN. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2436 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
It's interesting how you very freely assert Oprah's dominance over the greatest of other Black WOMEN yet avoid doing such with respect to Black MEN.It's interesting how you very freely assert Oprah's dominance over the greatest of other Black WOMEN yet avoid doing such with respect to Black MEN" *lol* @/with ABM, you're not sucking me into that one. Yes, I freely and consciously slide away from that :-) | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10440 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey: "...you're not sucking me into that one. Yes, I freely and consciously slide away from that :-)" *evilsnicker* | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3741 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
ABM, again, my time period (100 years) was based on the initial comparisson made by Carey. He was making an assertion of someone in our time who is still living (Winfrey) to someone in another time who is still known despite being dead for about 100 years. If one were to say that, say, Rev Sharpton (or someone else living now) was one of the greatest and better than MLK and that MLK couldn't "shine his shoes," then I might very well say that I'd want to see what folks thought of Sharpton 40 years after his death (about the amount of time MLK has been deceased). For me the issue was not the specific time period (100 years), but the comparisson between two specific figures--one historical and one contemporary. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10441 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, You said "We'll only know if Winfrey could be counted as among the "greatest" if people still know her name a hundred years after her death." Then I simply asked "So then we have to wait another 60 years to determine whether Dr. Martin Luther King Jr deserves to be considered one of our "greatest" people?" Why do you CONTINUE to refuse to answer my question? Could your refusual to answer my question relate to the likely answer to my question (an emphatic "NO") invalidating your initial statement? Sometimes, the very best and most mature response is to simply CONCEDE that you may be wrong, Darling. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3742 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
I was wrong in that I made an assumption that folks knew I was riffing off of Carey's comparisson. So, I in subsequent posts I tried to explain how I came up with the figure "100 years"--that was from the amount of time Tubman has been dead, compared specifically to Oprah Winfrey. Had she been dead 5 years or 200 years I would have used those figures. My initial statement had nothing to do with MLK. It had to do specifically with those two women. I'm not refusing to answer anything. MLK simply was not relevant to my original point. I have no gripes against King nor would I fault anyone for thinking he is a great figure in world history. And of course I think that too and never said otherwise. I am trying to be "mature" in explaining to you my initial point, but you seem to want an argument. And I'm not sure why. This is what happens in on-line discussions: intentions are not clear so folks elaborate. You seem to want me to argue a point that I never was trying to make in the first place. *Shrug* | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3743 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
You are right, Yvette, and the fact that Carey chose to place Oprah Winfrey and Harriet Tubman in the same category is an example of how his thinking is always off the mark, making his propositions not proven by his conclusions. Well, Cynique, I give Mr. Carey more credit than you do.  I think this is proof that he wanted to spark a conversation. I think he was probably being a little controversial for the sake of getting folks talking and that is what he did--both here and on his blog. Or...maybe he thinks that now that she is retiring, Ms. Winfrey will be looking for a new boy-toy to fill her time and he wants to be considered for the job, so he is raining compliments on her.... LOL! | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14370 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
You are too kind, Yvette. What I happen to think is that some people have difficulty processing the idea that comparing Oprah Winfrey and Harriet Tubman is like comparing apples and oranges. Simple as that.  "Boy toy", my azz. Sugar Daddy would be more accurate, if Carey had some money which, I seriously doubt.  | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10442 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, Had you stated in your initial response to my question that you were refusing to answer it, I would have not continued to request that you do so. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2438 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
"Ms. Winfrey will be looking for a new boy-toy to fill her time and he wants to be considered for the job" "Boy toy", my azz. Sugar Daddy would be more accurate, if Carey had some money which, I seriously doubt" *lol* @ Yvettep & Cynigue. I am not touching that. I am keeping my toy were it belongs. Besides, I'm still dressed in drag :-) |
