| Author | Message | ||
     Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2151 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
There's Nothing Wrong With A Little "Bump"-n-Wine, Or Is That Bump-n-Grind?  I 've seen the images of junkies on television. I watched Frank Sinatra in The Man With A Golden Arm. I saw the mug shots of Nick Nolte and Robert Downey Jr. I've witnessed the distant gaze of Keith Richards and Ozzie Osborn. Who hasn't seen Jungle Fever and watched Samuel Jackson do his crack monkey dance, so he could get a bump? Marvin Gaye asked What's Going On. We all saw his demise. Yep, they all were looking for a little bump - of something. While they were on their grind, they bumped into a mean thang, while trying to get their "bump" on! There is something wrong with a little bump-n-grind - ain't it? I've often said that I don't write much social commentary. But today I have to go there. Today I read a wonderful article on D'angelo http://soulsummer.com/ezine/feature-stories/black-pop-kool-aid-dangelos-left-right/ . Well, the article was tight. It was extremely well written, it was exciting, it was delicious, it flowed, it made me pause, it was voluptuous. Yet, it was ultimately sad. That article focused on a video shoot. The video was to accompany the release of D'angelo's CD, "Left and Right". Redman and Method Man were there, so was George Clinton. It appears Rick James should have been there. Its been reported that George Clinton was unabashedly smoking crack cocaine while standing in full view of everyone at the gathering. This is the same beloved George Clinton that some televisions and radio stations allowed to do commentary over the Micheal Jackson memorial. Like Marvin Gaye asked, What Going On? The images, journey and fate of the D'Angelo's of the world are common. All of their journeys offer a story that is not new and carry a stereotypical message. There is an outward display of self-destruction and loss of respect. Have we as a culture placed ourselves in a social caste system? Most readers stratify themselves far above the George Clinton's, Michael Jackson and D' angelo's of the world and others like them. In this system, are we not simply denying the truth that each of us has a piece of them within ourselves. Is that why we excuse all the social ills in our neighborhoods. Are we afraid of pointing a finger at ourselves. You know, ain't nothing wrong with a little bump-n-grind, err'body gotta get paid - right? Why do we quietly excuse our "Talented Tenth"? Why is their drug use only highlighted as a subplot to great stories of triumph and fame? I am reminded of the time a member of the Temptations "graduated" from a treatment center and proclaimed that he was cured. At that time, he was in a battle with a seasoned professional and had only acquired what amounted to a G.E.D. He died with his undergraduate degree firmly tucked under his arm, along with his crack pipe. Who knew Etta James had a habit? Should we say poor D'angelo and poor Michael Jackson or pour me another drink? I don't know what's going on but something just ain't right. I do feel a little guilty. Well, while I was writing this post, I was was playing D' angelo. I am just asking the questions. But aren't drugs and alcohol the ugliest scrounge in our society? Have we given up on the war on drugs? Should we just close our eyes or build a war zone like District 9? Like so many others, I have few answers and less solutions. Pour me another drink. What about you, do you have any answers? What's going on? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13988 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Being endowed with the gift of talent comes with a trade-off. The erratic temperment and egomania that go hand and hand with being a creative musician is the down side. Enormous talent and self destruction probably spring from the same matrix. If a person isn't grounded, he can become unbalanced. If he can't focus more on the external world, then he is swallowed up by his own demons. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2156 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
That seems to be true Cynique. But there are thousands of people with enormous talent that don't fall into this trap. Then again, there are thousand more that do but we just don't hear about them as frequently as we do entertainers and the such. And therein lies my problem with this issue. The majority believe the demons that D'angelo and the fellows are fighting, only happen to a small segment of society. I personally know this to be false. I've been in the company of FBI agents, CEO's of fortune 500 company, heirs to tremendous wealth and government officials that experience the same problems. But their stories are never told or if they are their told with less frequency. The dying message is, it can happen to anyone! | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8151 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
've seen the images of junkies on television (You need to see some real ones in the flesh. Better yet, you ought to get up close where you can SMELL them, their breath and their body odor and you can HEAR their babbling talk. I bet you don't wax so poetic behind dat!) This is the same beloved George Clinton that some televisions and radio stations allowed to do commentary over the Micheal Jackson memorial (George is a doper from way back before then. Once it was acid and weed. Then it got to the powder. Then pcp and freebase. And so it goes. He been busted so many times they ought to just give him a pass--) What Going On? (They're all dope addicts. They have to be. If they ain't they aren't much good. Go figure. I just heard Buddy Guy tell a story about Sonny Boy Williamson drinking a quart of whiskey and then getting up and blowing harp all night. Goes with the territory.) Why do we quietly excuse our "Talented Tenth"? Why is their drug use only highlighted as a subplot to great stories of triumph and fame? (You do a tour of ninety cities in ninety days, get back home to a call that you gotta go in the studio and do an album, spend day and night for the next several weeks in the studio until you get one, then get told you got to do another ninety cities in ninety days and say you won't do no dope. Let me tell you, the only difference between them and lots of your high powered execs and poliicians is that those people get prescriptions and meds and go dry out at time and got plenty of people to wash their ass and watch their back. Remember Howard Hughes?) But aren't drugs and alcohol the ugliest scrounge in our society? Have we given up on the war on drugs? Should we just close our eyes or build a war zone like District 9? Like so many others, I have few answers and less solutions. Pour me another drink. What about you, do you have any answers? What's going on? (There is no answer. As long as we have unnatural lifestyles we will use substances to try to make it. We point the finger at them and then drink 3 or 4 Starbucks a day. Or smoke three packs of ciggies. As for me, I'm gonna get me some of that goodtasting red stuff, sit down and listen to Junior Wells and Buddy Guy do "Hoodoo Man Blues" | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8152 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
. But there are thousands of people with enormous talent that don't fall into this trap. (They ain't doing S***. Look, you me,everybody on this list has had jobs where you could show up sick, hungover, out of it, go through the motions for 4 6 8 10 hours and it was all good. You can't just be "okay" if you are a singer or a comedian. You can't stand up in front of the crowd and say, "I ain't feeling too good so I'm gonna just lay back and you all groove to the band." You can't say "I can't make it today, I gotta split. You can't tell your manager and agent and promoter you don't feel well and can't do it. If you can breathe they are going to get you up there, or you are gonna be at McDonalds. That's easy for us to say who ain't never been up there. It is hard to go back to being a nobody. And so it goes. One of them crazy rock n roll white boys who had a great career, said it is like holding on to a live electric wire. You might hold on longer than everybody else But sooner or later you gotta let go or it kills you. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2161 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chris wrote: "But sooner or later you gotta let go or it kills you" Chris, that was the truth but the rest of your post was nothing more than rationalizations and common opinions that are frequently fueled on ignorance. My father told me never to play another mans game and this is in my wheel-house. Chris also wrote: "(You need to see some real ones in the flesh. Better yet, you ought to get up close where you can SMELL them, their breath and their body odor and you can HEAR their babbling talk" Chris, maybe you were not listening but I work with them every day. Although my written words could be considered "waxing poetically" I see all the elements of addiction on a constant basis. The central point of my post is that "dope addicts", "pill poppers/prescription (whatever)", alcoholics, drug abusers ...crack, liquor, blunts, blows, Ex, Boy, doogee, powder,shooters or snorters, they come in all colors and economic backgrounds. This week alone, I've talked to a Judge that has "a problem", I've talked to a Dentist that has "a probelm". I've talked to a school teacher that "has a problem. Chris wrote: "Let me tell you, the only difference between them and lots of your high powered execs and poliicians is that those people get prescriptions and meds and go dry out at time and got plenty of people to wash their ass and watch their back" Although that is a common opinion, it's still based on ignorance. For one thang, there's no such thang as drying out. Sitting down for a second and washing your ass ain't going to get it, regardles of who you are. What you are failing to realize or accept, is that as long as you and others "think/believe" that addicted individuals only come in certain flavors and only do it for a thin line of reasons, the beat goes on. Here's why. Who wants to be called an addict or an alcoholic as long as the sterotypical image of them are similar to the one you've painted. It paves the way for "Not me, but he". Just like other addictions, there's always rationalizations, excuses, and misinformation in regards to "why" people do what they do. People are fat because they are big boned or their parents were fat- right? No, they are usually fat because their diet is poor and they eat to much. Furthermore, they don't know why they can't stop eating. "(There is no answer. As long as we have unnatural lifestyles we will use substances to try to make it" That just plan stupid! There are thousands of "unnatural" lifestyles. And all in those lifestyle do not anesthesize themselves. Here's a key to the solution/answers. When I hear a person say they get high or drink because it makes them feel good, I asked them what was wrong with the way they WAS feeling before they took the substance. THEN, the next question is, how did they get that way(happy ,sad, mad, lonely, insecure, guilty, bored, lost, depressed, confused, tired)? Then the doors of rationalizations swings open. The answers are usually a projection away from the real problem - their mindset and their own inability to handle emotions. For the most part, a large number of people carry their childhood skills of handling emotions into adulthood. Crying and whinning and selfcenterness, turns into anger, blame, spouse abuse, drinking and drugging. We don't hear about all the people in the storm because it's not news, and it keeps people ignorant and happy, it keeps the money flowing. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13990 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
What Is your point????? Or better still, what is the argument that you are trying to disprove when it comes to addiction???? I find your comments ambiguous. Bottom line to me is that some people are better able to deal with life than others. I personally think that an individual's core personality influences whether or not they turn to drugs to fill the vacuum in their lives. We are all different and we all confront life and its demands in a different way. Some people are more prone to becoming addicted than others because some people have more will power than others or are more stable in their temperaments. And, depending on their circumstances, some people are more motivated to kick the habit than others. Drug addiction is a multi-faceted condition, and the variables are endless and certainly no cut and dried rules apply to every instance. People make their judgments on what they observe when they encounter addicts. Who is to say that one person has more insight than another when it comes to what conclusion they reach about an addict they are acquainted with? | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2162 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Some people are more prone to becoming addicted than others because some people have more will power than others or are more stable in their temperaments. And, depending on their circumstances, some people are more motivated to kick the habit than others" That's my point! Your statement is filled with endless holes. But, because it is a common opinion, the beat will go on. "Drug addiction is a multi-faceted condition, and the variables are endless and certainly no cut and dried rules apply to every instance" That statement is true "multi-faceted condition" HOWEVER.... "Who is to say that one person has more insight than another when it comes to what conclusion they reach about an addict they are acquainted with" There conclusions are their own but the central issue is what does the addict look like and how does a person know when they are in their acquaintance? Furthermore, THERE ARE cut and dried rules. That's the point many do not wish to but their arms around. Since you are not trying to hear anything that goes against your limited knowledge of "addictions", this question will certainally fly over your head. Here we go ....WHEN is a person in their addiction and how do the get out? I will tell you it's not a conscience decision. If a person gets hooked on pain medication will "will power" get them out of their addiction. Let me give you a hint to this question. Your car is damaged, can you fix it without knowing the root of the problem? What I would ask you to do is show me a statement I've made that is not true and come back and holler. Your voicing an opinion based on nothing. But here's what I've learned, a foolish person (closed minded) will convert me before I do them. Pour yourself another drink. Again, your opinion is shared by many and that's exactly why there are more people becoming addicted every day. Fools go were wisemen tread not. It's not wise to play with something that you obviously know little about. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13992 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Your line of reasoning is soooo difficult to follow, Carey. You disagree with what I say by agreeing with me. You concede that drug addiction is a multi-faceted problem and then turn around and discredit every possible aspect of it except the one you've decided is right. You seem to think that people don't know that drug addicts exist in all walks of life. You further underestimate people's intelligence if you think they don't know that drug addiction is symptomatic of a deeper problem. And are you arguing that there are no people who consciously make up their mind to kick a habit cold turkey and are able to do this because they summon up their will power? And are you disputing that if they succeed at this it's because they are better mentally-equipped to do so than another person who tries and fails because they are emotionally weaker??? Are you saying when a person's environment and situation improve that they are not more inspired to kick the habit than a person who is mired down in a situation that hasn't improved? These are the assertions which you think have holes in them. Disprove what I've witnessed. Call Miles Davis a fraud. When we argued about this before, you dismissed psychiatrists as not knowing what they're talking about. It's becoming obvious that you are hooked on the idea that you are the only one who knows the score and the reason you cling to this notion is that you don't want to accept anything that doesn't coincide with your personal experience. So, I will simply ask who designated you as an expert on this subject? Even if you are a recovering addict, all you can draw from are your own experiences. You can't speak for everybody on this subject. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2163 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"You seem to think that people don't know that drug addicts exist in all walks of life" You are close Cynique but no cigar. Yes, I agree with you on some matters, because on some points you graze the surface. But check this out. Did you notice how you reached way down and found Miles Davis. Now, are you sure he kicked his habit? Okay, for argument sake, lets say he did. At what age did he do that? Now, how many Miles Davis's do YOU know? A better question - how many people that become addicted, find their way out. What percent would you say? Take a quess. Again, I'll bet that you will not even be close. The point I am making, Cynique, you know very little about the nature of addictions but you think you do. You are not alone. Do you see my point? If everyone is so knowledgeable on the subject, why do so many people die from substance abuse? I bet you can't name me 3 people that has ever kicked a drug habit cold turkey. For argument sake, if you can name me 1, I'll name 100 that find it impossible. "You further underestimate people's intelligence if you think they don't know that drug addiction is symptomatic of a deeper problem" I am doing no such thing. I am saying a very few really know the symptoms and the problem. If that WERE NOT the case, we wouldn't have the epidemic we have today. Most people that become addicted die from their decease. That's a fact! Believe me Cynique, that's a fact. So, if we have all these smart and strong willed individuals, what's the problem? Let me leave you with this bit of wisdom and insight. If you were about to go into surgery, and were administered a drug to put you to sleep, do you think you could resist it's affects. I am done Cynique, I am not surprised at your comments. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2164 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Wait ...I forgot. Cynique wrote: "all you can draw from are your own experiences" Of all the things you've said, you could never be more wrong on that one. The begging question is how many addicts/alcoholics/drug and alcohol abusers, do you know? Of that number, how many have you talked to that has conquered their demon. You don't have to answer those questions. I have a good idea. Just file those questions under food for thought. How many books have you read on the subject? But I'll tell you what. I've been "around" thousands of individuals that experience some type of addiction problem. Haven't you been listening? I would tell you more but I don't think you're trying to listen. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2165 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Psssst, Cynique, come over hear, I don't want too many people hearing this. You know what I like about you? Now, I am not going to say this too many times because I don't want people thinking I am going soft. I like the fact that you don't go run and hide. I like the fact that you don't need others to mount your attack. You try to bring them in sometimes but you basically don't do the white girl cry (most of the time). I don't know why we've continued to argue for the last 8 or so years, but at least you're still here. I have to give you props on this last argument. It appears you pulled out a book or two. Some of this next paragraph of yours, appears to come straight out of a how to book. And I am not saying it's bad. Most of it is on point. "And are you arguing that there are NO PEOPLE WHO CONCIOUSLY MAKE UP THEIR MIND to kick a habit cold turkey and are able to do this because they summon up their will power? And are you disputing that if they succeed at this it's because they are better MENTALY-EQUIPPED to do so than another person who tries and fails because they are EMOTIONALLY WEAKER??? Are you saying when a person's ****** ENVIORONMENT and situation improve that they are not more INSPIRED to kick the habit than a person who is MIRED DOWN in a situation that hasn't improved******? These are the assertions which you think have holes in them. Disprove what I've witnessed. Call Miles Davis a fraud" Cynique, that paragraph is why it's so hard to debate with you. Much of it is right on target. As I've always been saying, each of those aspects of the addicts journey better be tight and focused or they will fail. Most will fail. Most will never reach a place where they can regain emotional balance. for the most part, they never had it. Many people think they have emotional control and understanding, but most humans fail miserably at the emotions game. Inspiration is great but it's no match for an addiction. Knowledge is king, yet many view addictions with a passing glance. You mentioned changing their envioronment. This is another HUGE stumbling block because for most, their envoironment is home. Yep, the process of addiction has so many elements that start right at home. In a nut shell, although many think they know about the horrors of addiction, only a small fraction really know. It's interesting that you mentioned our last exchange on this topic. Again you mentioned Psychiatrists. You said ....."you dismissed psychiatrists as not knowing what they're talking about". I don't believe I said that. I said they may talk about it but most doctors in that profession do not treat the addicted. They will admit that they fail miserably when trying to do so. They may medicate them but outside of that, their success rate is on the bottom. Here's a strong and basic point I try to get across in my stuff. A person may not know (or admit)they are addicted until they try to get out, because most of the symptoms of addiction do not appear until they reach a point in which they look like the problems of the sterotypical addict. Then, as you've pointed out, the search for answers and solutions is bogged down with a multitude of confusion and misunderstanding. If a person has Cancer, where do they go for help. If a person finds themselves in the grips of an addiction, where do they go? Traditional wisdom and insight is failing horribly. My talks, my writing, and my speechs are focused on inspiring others to dig a little deeper into a menacing problem with few answers. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13994 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Addiction is an observable predictable behavioral problem. Narcotics may be a person's "drug of choice" when it comes to an addiction but people get hooked on other things such as gambling, porn, food, alcohol, nicotine, shopping, hoarding, sex. A person doesn't have to be around substance abusers to know the nature of an addiction. All addicts are struggling with the same compulsion; what it is they are compulsive about is what is different. People who are motivated to take their lives back exert their will power to do what is necessary to get their addictions under control. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2166 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"A person doesn't have to be around substance abusers to know the nature of an addiction" To a certain degree, that is true. Yet, knowing the nature of any ol'addiction isn't enough. Of the addictions you listed, most pale in comparision to the social and mental impact that drugs and alcohol has on the lives of millions. Yes, shopping, porn and gambling etc, can reek havoc in a persons life. However, those addictions do not have the tentacles of substance abuse. Nor do they evade a persons mind and body like that of a substance ingested to purposely affect a persons thinking pattern and central nervous system. It's all about the right tools for the right job. Wouldn't you agree? Come on, throw me a bone. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13998 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I am not now or have I ever been arguing about the effect of addiction. I've mostly focused on the cause of it which is why I sometimes contend that the way a person's brain is wired can be why some people are more prone to addiction than others and why some people are able better able to kick the habit than others. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8156 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
After reading Carey's posts, dripping with sanctimony and self righteousness, I have concluded that this was the wrong week for me to stop sniffing glue. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8157 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Even JESUS had to have him a little taste now and then. And didn't Paul exhort one of his followers to get him some wine? This was the wrong week for me to stop eating Red Devils. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2174 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
My fellow commenters that decided to give cynical reviews of this post are 2 examples of why they put blinders on horses, male and female. After the race they take them right back to the barn and feed them hay. That's all they want. There is no doubt that wrong will run away from right. It's one of the crippling natures of man. Call it sanctimonious or self righteousness, I understand. Look at the following ambiguous statement: "I've mostly focused on the cause of it which is why I sometimes contend that the way a person's brain is wired can be why some people are more prone to addiction than others and why some people are able better able to kick the habit than others" "I sometimes contend" and "more prone ". People in the eye of a hurricane are more prone to face total destruction than those outside of the eye, but that DOES NOT exclude the rest of the individuals in the path of the hurricane. A cynical person, one who is inclined to question the sincerity and goodness of people's motives and action, are miserable as they lay in their morose and sullen views. In reference to this post, the cynic would have you believe there's a special kind of fool that becomes addicted. She would also have you believe the "wired right" person recovers at a faster rate than those that are "wired wrong". Nothing can be further from the truth. It's a common opinion but it's nevertheless wrong. Although "wired right" is an utterly ambiguous phrase, ANY person that falls into addiction, unconsciously reliquishes their ability to think correctly. After a period of time they do regain some of their normal thought patterns but that time period is more than the average person can imagine. Consequently, the misinformed will give up hope and revert back to thier escapism and what feels the most comfortable to them. And in this case, we know what that is. The cynic would have you believe that an addict walks, talks, thinks and looks a certain way. Her arguments are rooted in the sterotypical image of an addict. Their comments are the voice of a person that resents ideas and concepts that are different from their limited understanding. Listen to the voice of the cynic. Their mission is clear. They loudly trumpet negetivity. There's a calculated risk to posting anything on this board. Many do not wish to deal with the naysayers and cronic cynics. They've grown tired of dodging eggs thrown in their face. In regards to this post, I didn't post it to debate solely with the cynics. There's a message that I wanted to give, it was from my heart and it wasn't about me. It's what I "do" but it wasn't about me. There's a possible addict in all of us. The sterotypical image of an addict is just a sore in it's cronic stage. Some might have recieved the message. The self proclaimed cynic will never receive the message because they are never looking for the good in anything. If they are, they seldom speak anything other than negetivity. They'll seldom post their own creative ideas, they'll just throw darts at others. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14004 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Jesus H. Christ. I wouldn't have you or anybody else believe nothing, Carey. That's a misconception you are desperately laboring to project. I don't have a need to make people believe what I think. Unlike YOU, I am not trying to foist my ideas on others. I voiced an opinion about a possible cause of addiction. I didn't state it as fact. You get mad because I qualified my statemnt, so you proceed to twist my intent in order to reinforce your lame rebuttal. You write all of this long, trite, maudlin, crap, trying to make yourself appear wise as you put words in my mouth, continuing to concoct arguments that I haven't advanced, all in an effort to give your befuddled points credibility. Contrary to you claim, I never said anything about a person's brain being wired "right". I said wired a certain way and I condemned no one. I said drug addicts are found in all walks of life, and you try to make it appear that I was putting them down. But because you think you're an expert on the subject of junkies, frustrated because people are not awe-struck by your "resume", you resort to distortion in order to mask the fact the you are really a nonentity. Same ol, same ol. Come up with a different ploy -and quit beggin me to throw you a bone. And nothing I've said about addiction is "cynical". Once again, that's a crutch you rely on every time you can't mount a credible argument against me. I stated I was not debating the effects of addiction. And to those able to kick the habit, I gave credit for exerting the will power this took. If you have a problem with me offering such praise, tuff shyt. So go somewhere and take a snort. Then you'd at least have an excuse for being so friggin delusional. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14005 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Boy, you're really on a roll, Chrishayden. Your comic relief was a welcome breath of fresh air that dispersed all Carey's boring smoke and mirrors. |
