| Author | Message | ||
     Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2020 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
There is a place I go when I just want to be me - I visit my daughter. I don't have to be anything but dad. She's seen my skinny legs find ample room in my boxer drawers. She laughs and calls them loose leg pants. Not underwear, loose leg pants. My son and her laugh at me because I sometimes wear suspenders with my church clothes. They say, "look, dad has those old guy clothes on ...with suspenders!" I of course tell them they'd better hope they get to be half my age. I think they are but that's what I say anyway. I talked to my daughter after watching the Michael Jackson memorial to see what she had to say about it. Just like me, she thought it was great. But let me go back. Last year I rode in a car with my daughter from Dallas Texas, to Atlanta Georgia, it's about a 12-14 hour trip.. I seldom do long trips in a car and we had my grandson with us so we stopped overnight in Mississippi. I love my grandson but I don't know if you've taken a trip with a 5 year old, well, he gets on my nerves real quick. I think it's a burnout thang. Anyway, since my daughter was driving, it's only right that she play her music. My daughter was raised on the edge of old school music and music in it's present form. I can remember listening to her sing along with Natalie Cole and the Emotions ....."don't ask my neighbor, ask me". It was my music but she played them all the time. Yet, as she grew older, hip hop and rap became the thang. As we were traveling, she popped in a song by Sade. I assumed she was just being respectful to her old daddy sitting in the back seat. After a while she put in a CD by Lavert. I knew she was stroking me then. I told her that it was okay if she played her music because I was going to do what I do best and get a little sleep while the little monster sitting next to me had closed his eyes and spilled his ice cream cone in his lap. She told me that was the music that she listens too and asked me why did I think she had it in her car. I said, "don't get smart girl, I am still yo' daddy" - we laughed together. She said she did have some rap and if I wanted to hear some she would play it for me. See, she knows I love me some Tupac and Biggie. I even bought Mr. Beyounce's latest. I said I was cool and we traveled on. While talking to my daughter about the Michael Jackson memorial and the BET tribute, she forced me to look at both events from a different view. She listened to my tirade of the "tribute" and then gave me her opinion. Although she didn't like some of the acts in the tribute, she understood why it may have been presented in the way it was. She said, for good or bad, young people love that kind of music and that type of entertainment. She pointed out that my son has all of Lil Wayne's stuff. I said all my "yeah butts" & "back in the day". She stopped me in midstream. She said that was your day. I didn't see the first part of the memorial, she gave me a rundown. I used to love to listen to Stevie Wonder but lately I hate it when they give him the microphone. Sometimes he rambles on and his music seems to have lost some of it's flavor. So when I saw Stevie was to be the next act I fixed me an egg sandwich. Come on, I know some of yawl done eat an egg sandwich. Put a little Miracle Whip on that baby and maybe a piece of cheese and ooouulala. My daughter said I missed something. Not my good senses, Stevie's performance. His song was about leaving to early. My daughter expressed her feelings of her mother who left too early. She thought what it would be like if she lost her son - too early. She also pointed out that the song Stevie sang was in the movie Poetic Justice, starring Janet Jackson. I didn't see all of the memorial but I talked about it with a friend - my daughter. She gave me everything I needed to hear and some. Posted by CareyCarey | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3622 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
I was in the gym when it came on. I watched it from time to time as I wondered around and did my work out. Probably seen a total time of fifteen voyeuristic minutes. Couldn't get excited about it. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2023 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Why couldn't you get excited about it? Is it because you were never a Michael Jackson fan? I know you don't care for the round tables with Cornel West and the boys but what turned you off? | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3624 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"Why couldn't you get excited about it?" Becasue I couldn't. Why? Did you? "Is it because you were never a Michael Jackson fan?" Michael Jackson was one of the greatest entertainers ever -bar none! I believe he was one of the most talented dancers and stage performers ever! I doubt if anyone with a brain would dispute this fact. I thought his music transcended all cultural, class and ethnic boundaries. This man was loved by countless millions of people worldwide. But his life was marred by his weird and eccentric behavior. The man was the poster boy for a dysfunctional and tortured individual. I say this not to be divisive or harsh but because it is true. But regardless, he will rightfully be in the history books as one of the most gifted and prolific entertainers the world has ever seen. "I know you don't care for the round tables with Cornel West and the boys......." Ya got that right! I have no need to see a cabal of pontificating Negroes rambling about the obvious. It's like that pathetic travisty by Tavis Smiley (State of the Black Union) every year. Seeing these self annoited Afro-nudniks aggressively compete against one another for the bragging rights of "out ranting and out preaching" the other as simpled minded Negroes in the audience stomp their feet and hysterically cheer their tired histrionics on, is too much for me. Perhaps it's something you enjoy but I can find other things for entertainment. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8045 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: |
But his life was marred by his weird and eccentric behavior. The man was the poster boy for a dysfunctional and tortured individual (This sums it up well. Who of us would want our children to wind up like him? Who would want to go out like he did, a jiggling, drug addicted crazed paranoid puppet with bills to pay? He wanted to be bigger than Elvis and he did it. And thanx to this "success" he has a closed casket service at 50.) | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2024 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
You must be a Catholic? Then again, they don't talk like you so maybe I can see your point. Who would want to hear the words of Maya, Nelson and Michael's daughter. Or hear the words of his friends like Stevie Wonder, Brooke Sheilds and Magic Johnson. Wouldn't want to get to close to all those simple minded negros, like Dr King's son and daughter. How could any black person want to sit in fellowship with those that loved the best entertainer of all time? Dang it, I could of had a V8. I could have been in a gym around a bunch of sweating white guys; pontificating white guys looking to see whos "muscle" is the biggest, while they told N**ger jokes. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2025 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ahhh Chris, did you watch it? | ||
| Serenasailor AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1911 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Or maybe NTFS seeing all those Black people together and happy is a horrifying experience. Let me ask you, Have you ever been to a state of the Black Union. It is a electrifying experience!! Almost like being in church. Which again I'm sure that is something you don't know about. My biggest beef with the State of the Black Union is that we don't act on what is being preached. Although I love Michael Jackson he tried to cross all racial and ethnic boundaries by making himself non-Black physically. Now, whether you agree with that or not is up for debate. However, Michael was the greatest entertainer that ever lived. | ||
| Urban_scribe AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Urban_scribe Post Number: 741 Registered: 05-2006 Rating: N/A |
My biggest beef with the State of the Black Union is that we don't act on what is being preached. Bravo! | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2030 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Which again I'm sure that is something you don't know about" You = who? | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3625 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"You must be a Catholic?" Nope...... "Then again, they don't talk like you so maybe I can see your point." What point? Their speech is no different than mine. You're 0 for 2 so far. Continue...... "Who would want to hear the words of Maya, Nelson and Michael's daughter. Or hear the words of his friends like Stevie Wonder, Brooke Sheilds and Magic Johnson." Unlike you Carey, I'm not smitten and drooling, sitting transfixed on the edge of my seat, listening to celebrities extol their musings and love for Michael Jackson. That's the difference. "Wouldn't want to get to close to all those simple minded negros, like Dr King's son and daughter. " Really? Ok......Your words, not mine......... "How could any black person want to sit in fellowship with those that loved the best entertainer of all time? " As I recall, I was very clear about the incredible talent and wonderful music this man gave the world. So your insinuation carries no weight or validity. Next...... "Dang it, I could of had a V8. I could have been in a gym around a bunch of sweating white guys; pontificating white guys looking to see whos "muscle" is the biggest, while they told N**ger jokes." Well, if having a V-8 is your thing, have at it. But if you are attempting to make an inference towards me, I train at a military base that has a mixture of personnel of various races, ethnicities and both genders. My training partner (who is black) and I are in our own world when training so I wouldn't know anything about "sweaty pontificating whites telling N**ger jokes." So your pathetic attempt at cynical race baiting and satire didn't work. You're 0 for 6 bro. Wanna try again.......? | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3626 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"Or maybe NTFS seeing all those Black people together and happy is a horrifying experience. Let me ask you, Have you ever been to a state of the Black Union. It is a electrifying experience!! Almost like being in church. Which again I'm sure that is something you don't know about." SS, I have nothing against unifying black people or seeing them celebrate appropriate occasions. Why would I? I'm black too. But I do tire of Negroes attempting to out black one another with a captive audience holding numbered placards up as if it is an athletic event. Sorry, but repetitive, tired and empty bombast and hyperbole does nothing for me. I'm not taken in by designer race rhetoric and drama. "My biggest beef with the State of the Black Union is that we don't act on what is being preached." Thank you. You just made my point. This is the exact reason why I have no use for it. Remember the hype and drama of the Million Man March more than ten years ago? Remember all the tears, celebration, exuberance, excitement and passionate elocution of the speakers and the audience? Question: Whatever happened to all those promises, atonement and declarations of a new black day? You know the answer -not a damn thing! So why would I get excited over a predictable yearly reenactment of the Million March March (so called State of the Black Union)? Makes no sense....... __________________ | ||
| Serenasailor AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1912 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Again obviously you have never been to one of the State of the Black Union's because out-Blacking eachother is not what goes on there. What is going on is a collaboration of thoughts and ideas and a presenting of the issues in the Black community. Also, the State of the Black Unions are anything but repetitive and empty. For me the experience of being around so many of my ppl was just enough in itself. Another thing NTFS are you personally living up to the million man march? Because if you are you would not worry about what everybody else is doing.The million man march was another event that was awesome. The idea that a million Black men could get together and share ideas without any fighting or hating on eachother was nothing short of amazing. Also, you have to remember how the media tried to portray Farrakhan, the march and Black men in general leading up to the event.And how the powers that be tried to impede the march. And the fact that ALOT of Black men risked so much to be there. Again nothing short of amazing. Come on my brotha!! You sound hollow and complacent the thing you claim to hate. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 776 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
**I have nothing against unifying black people or seeing them celebrate appropriate occasions. Why would I? I'm black too. But I do tire of Negroes attempting to out black one another with a captive audience holding numbered placards up as if it is an athletic event. Sorry, but repetitive, tired and empty bombast and hyperbole does nothing for me. I'm not taken in by designer race rhetoric and drama.** Let the church say... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13889 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Amen." | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2033 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Don't hate the messenger! You can't hear the message if you hate yourself and your people! | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2034 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
"So your pathetic attempt at cynical race baiting and satire didn't work" Didn't work for who? And what's with this race baiting kick you're on? That sounds like another white term to me. Your holes in your hood are begining to show your face. Here's my question. What type of a black man takes most issues and turns them into an opportunity to use words such as coons,Afro-nudniks and simpled minded Negroes. You do this quite often. Here's my thang. The people that you tag with those names are not Pooky.I am sure you didn't get those words from one of your "black friends". Now you know I wasn't the first to call you out on this! Oh NO, I noticed that others have been quetioning your "blackness" for a few years. What's really going on? Is it that you just hate being black? ` | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3629 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Again obviously you have never been to one of the State of the Black Union's because out-Blacking eachother is not what goes on there. " Let me clarify that statement. When I see these selected Negroes sitting in couch chairs, upping the ante after each speaker, attempting to raise the bar of emotional rhetoric, saying the same tired and obvious tedious rants, I tend to loose interest rapidly. Now to be fair, perhaps the boots on the ground and the rank and file in the audience is doing something different. I will concede to that possibility. But when I see the same boring predictable hyperbole from the speakers (Michael E. Dyson, Cornell West, Farakhan, et al), I have to go into the channel surf mode. "What is going on is a collaboration of thoughts and ideas and a presenting of the issues in the Black community." I see....And what measurable changes and noticeable impact in black communities do these so-called ideas produce? Can you present discernible evidence to support their efforts and activities? Just curious..... "Also, the State of the Black Unions are anything but repetitive and empty." Sorry but I have to disagree with you SS. When I see these Negroes doing a dog and pony show on TV, none of the histrionics and debate is different from the previous year. "For me the experience of being around so many of my ppl was just enough in itself." Ok...... "Another thing NTFS are you personally living up to the million man march? Not sure what you mean. But I can tell you I am not bringing shame or embarrassment on my race. Nor am I making the streets unsafe for you and your family. And foremost, my life is the antithesis of the out of control-criminal-out of wed lock baby daddy making-uneducated-violent-thug stereotype of black men that is so trendy today." "Because if you are you would not worry about what everybody else is doing." Uhhhhhhh...Again, I'm not sure what you mean. But worrying about what other people are doing in their personal lives is not something I concern myself with. "The million man march was another event that was awesome. The idea that a million Black men could get together and share ideas without any fighting or hating on eachother was nothing short of amazing." Agreed....... "Also, you have to remember how the media tried to portray Farrakhan, the march and Black men in general leading up to the event.And how the powers that be tried to impede the march. And the fact that ALOT of Black men risked so much to be there. Again nothing short of amazing." Ok. But again, regardless of what the media attemptd to do -what measurable changes happened after the "Million Man March"??? Look at the statistics of black on black homicides, violent crimes, poverty, black male high school drop out rates, out of wed lock births, etc in 1995 and what it is today. Has there been a dramatic shift or change -almost 15 years later??? What do Negroes have to show for the Million Man March? Please answer. I'm willing to hear any information or data you have to prove the "MMM" or the "State of The Black Union" has made a made a difference in black America. I'll wait...... | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3630 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Don't hate the messenger!" What messenger....??? "You can't hear the message if you hate yourself and your people!" If you are referring to me, I wouldn't know anything about that. I have no sane or rational reason to hate myself or my people. Besides, hatred is not part of my character. Sorry..... | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3631 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"So your pathetic attempt at cynical race baiting and satire didn't work" Didn't work for who? You..... "And what's with this race baiting kick you're on?" No "race baiting trip" for me my friend. That's your forte. Attempting to obstruficate a discussion or debate by interjecting race loyalty rancor and chaff because you lack the ability to mount a compelling intelligent argument is one form of race baiting. That sounds like another white term to me. A white term? Well, if you want to define your behavior as a white term, well...have at it....... "Your holes in your hood are begining to show your face." Yeah.....Next...... "Here's my question. What type of a black man takes most issues and turns them into an opportunity to use words such as coons,Afro-nudniks and simpled minded Negroes." A black man who has little to no tolerance for inexcusable self destructive bad behavior. One who does not indulge in racial political correctness when the behavior of the offenders is obnoxious, unacceptable and exemplifies the worst of human behavior -regardless of race. A black man who holds everyone to the same standard and has zero patience for those who he considers race traitors (along with their supportive staff of apologists and excuse makers). He has total contempt for litigious Negro buffoons who sneer and arrogantly dishonor a noble history of blacks who laid their lives on the line against centuries of institutionalized white racism and lethal violence so future generations would not suffer the indignities, dehumanization and denial of basic Constitutional rights they did. That's the type of black man I am. Got it...??!! "You do this quite often." Do what? Call out the worst behavior and the enabling simpletons who defend it? Ok, guility as charged...... "Here's my thang. The people that you tag with those names are not Pooky.I am sure you didn't get those words from one of your "black friends"." Has nothing to do with my black friends. I don't need them to think for me nor am I predisposed to parroting their beliefs or vocabulary. Besides, they all know how I feel about coonery and the dishonesty of the excuse makers. Next..... "Now you know I wasn't the first to call you out on this! Oh NO, I noticed that others have been quetioning your "blackness" for a few years." Questioning my blackness??? "Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny. Tell ya what Carey, why don't you detail what your real concerns of my so-called blackness. And as you can see, this is the very thing I referred to earlier. It is very clear that you cannot articulate your specific issues with me nor present a cogent argument without interjecting the race loyalty Three Card Molly mind trick (deflect the real issues and put the individual on the defensive by having them defend their so-called blackness). What's really going on? Is it that you just hate being black? ` Hate being black? There ya have it. You just verified everything I said about you. Case closed....... | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3582 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Ahhhh... And everyone's back from summer vacation at Thumper's Corner...  | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10395 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
CTFU@"self annoited Afro-nudniks" GREAT line, Nfts! | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2035 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
No NTSF! That IS my specific issue with you. I realize there are thousands of blacks from all walks of life that have the race card pulled on them. Stupid as it may be, many times they are forced to play a game that requires them to prove their "blackness". We hear it all the time ..."come on sista/brotha, keep it real". What the hell is real blackness? I am reminded of the Huxtables (Bill Cosby's show). There were several debates regarding their blackness. Many were saying they didn't depict the "real" black family. For several reasons I always thought that argument was BS. I'll tell you why I felt that way. Although my family were not rich, there wasn't a single person in that family that displayed the negative qualities you frequently highlight - except myself. Eight generations of hard working black people that did not use drugs, drink, rob and steal - except me. I know there are thousands and perhaps millions of blacks of all shapes, sizes and colors, that has felt the pinch of proving their blackness. I think it's safe to say, in the minds of many there's an unfair sterotype image of the black man. I can only assume that those that do not fit that image have at times even questioned their own "blackness". The questions of their blackness comes not only from whites but equally so from blacks. The individaul that has to prove thier blackness may not look black (color) enough for some. They may not "talk" black enough for others. They may have a higher level of education than many blacks. Yet, to the bottom of their souls, they are black. I feel for them. I understand their delimma. The pain of not being black enough has forced some to assimilate the ways of white folk, including hating themselves and other blacks. I worked with a Mexican fellow that succumb to the self hatred I mentioned. His grandmother spoke nothing but spanish and his grandfather spoke in a broken english. His father married a white women. Yet, it was obvious he was of mexican heritage. He told me he went to an all white school and was bullied and badgered. He frequently had nothing but negative comments about mexicans, even prominant Mexicans. One day I asked him if he was a mexican. I knew the answer but was wondering why he constantly voiced disparaging remarks about other Mexicans. In somewhat of a whisper, he said he was a Mexican but not like those other Mexicans. He had entrenched himself in the role of the white racist to prove to others that he wasn't just like them - those "other" Mexicans. NTFS, many of your posts are filled with insulting and disrespectful remarks towards blacks. I, like others, wonder whats the motive behind that. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2036 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ahhhh yes, Yvettep, summertime summertime. Swimming pools, barbecues, hot pants and hot debates in TC. Lets see were we've gone. Oh yeah, pedophiles - murder - MJ - race - unfaithful husbands - teenage dating - back biting & snide remarks - coochie grabbing politicians - old enough to bleed - BET and please please please. Yes sir, summertime summertime. Schools out, schools out, teacher let the monkeys out. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10396 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, I like Ntfs A LOT. He strikes me as being a decent, principled and smart man. But I too have at times wondered if he's suffering from some of what you describe of your Mexican friend... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13890 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
I've always identified with NTFS because he reminds me of myself; I have little patience with black people who don't think like me. Our redeeming virtue is that we hate white, right-wing, neocons. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2038 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Abm, I too find many qualities that I admire about NTSF. He has a quick wit. He has great command of the english language. He served his country. He appears to be fearless; not afraid to give his opinion. He likes to listen to Jazz. It appears he would like to see a real change in the world. He's trying to keep his body in shape, something I am struggling with. The central focus of my disagreement with him is it has felt like he's smiling in our face while stabbing us in the back. I will admit my "forte" of expressing my concerns has at times been low ball-ish. Like he said, this is what I do. We can flip the coin and say "but Carey, this is what you do ...you are blah blah blah" and I'd be glad to address those issue. But back to this issue, it's my hope that maybe he didn't understand that his words were frequently demeaning and disrespectful. It's also highly possible that many didn't feel as if his words were insulting to blacks as a whole and that's on them. But it's a fact many thought he is a person in disguise; inside and out. I've always questioned his real purpose for his frequent use of derogatory comments about blacks. Ntfs wrote: "Tell ya what Carey, why don't you detail what your real concerns of my so-called blackness" All the above is my reply. Is talking over a man a nice thing to do? Probably not but he asked and I couldn't think of a better way to do it. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2039 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Btw, I too thought that was a pretty funny line :-). | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3634 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"No NTSF! That IS my specific issue with you. I realize there are thousands of blacks from all walks of life that have the race card pulled on them. Stupid as it may be, many times they are forced to play a game that requires them to prove their "blackness"." Agreed. It seems as if a black person who does not submit to or spout the nationalistic Afro-Orthodoxy party line, he or she is suspect for being unauthentic or disloyal. If you speak your mind about issues that run contrary to the mass crowd mentality -you are tainted or self loathing (a very trendy term). Your punishment for questioning blind tenuous race ideology (no matter how ridiculous) is disloyal branding. This is the nonsense I object to. It obscures and removes the real issues of contention from the table. Why do it? Because it's cheap and easy. When two whites of opposite political ideologies debate, they are dismissed by the other as being radical, stupid or ignorant of the facts. But race plays no role in their disagreement (e.g. "....you hate yourself because you're white!"). This is not the case with black people. If you disagree or make critical statements about Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton, don't support reparations or hold black people responsible for the consequences that are a result of their ruinous personal behavior or poor decisions making, to a large number of Negroes, this is tantamount to disloyalty. Blaming the victim is the bugle call to surround the wagons and collectively castigate the offending traitorous black Benedict Arnold. Roll out the race baiting: "You're an Uncle Tom!! You hate yourself!! And you're a flunky for the white man because....because you don't agree with me!" Such Machiavellian indiscriminate branding is corrosive and often times obscures the truth not to mention misleading. So, this is the fork in the road between you and I Carey. As you stated: "Stupid as it may be, many times they are forced to play a game that requires them to prove their "blackness"". Unfortunately, this is something I am not willing to do. Cow tow to behavior and crass thinking that I know is wrong just to fit in and avoid having my black membership card pulled or at minimum, questioned. I would have to willingly prostitute my basic principles and disavow what I know to be true in order to avoid the chastisement of being branded disloyal or self hating (another mindless race baiting epitaph). Well, after posting my core opinions over the years, I think you know where I stand on this...... | ||
| Urban_scribe AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Urban_scribe Post Number: 746 Registered: 05-2006 Rating: |
When two whites of opposite political ideologies debate, they are dismissed by the other as being radical, stupid or ignorant of the facts. But race plays no role in their disagreement (e.g. "....you hate yourself because you're white!"). I've eavesdropped on one conversation very similar to this, and heard a conservative White guy tell a liberal White guy that he suffered from "White guilt". The conservative White guy went on to say that just because he didn't suffer from "White guilt" that didn't make him a racist. I only caught about 3 minutes of their conversation, and the conservative White guy did most of the talking, but it was a spirited exchange that left me with a sense that Whites, too, are plagued by opposing intraracial views. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10397 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
U_S, Although they are seldom as direct about the the issue as we are, A LOT of White's DO recognize that much of what they think and do is based on the privilege of their BEING White. And, as you describe, they are starting to openly engage and debate each other on what they mean, especially as we move into a world culture where their overall numbers, power and influence have started to wane. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10398 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, I wouldn't consider Ntfs to be some sort of backstabber of Black foks. I have, however, observed a certain tone to his criticism of Blacks that can at times appear to mirror that of those think less of Blackness overall. I suspect what he does is a sort of "tuff love". And there are times when such is appropriate. Perhaps all I'd ask is that he remember the "love" part of that. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2042 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Abm, Again, I agree with your assesment. I think you hit on something. If his "tuff love" was remotely balanced with love, I probably would be less prone to call him out. I appreciate the fact that he has graciously addressed my concerns. I wish he would have addressed my central point of contention. Like you, I enjoy a differing view, I don't think anyone wants him to cow tow to any political position or crass thinking that he doesn't agree with. The central issue -- the biggest issue is his penchant for using derogatory terms in most of his posts. We all have phrases or words we call each other. Who says m**therf**ker better than a black person. However, when the spirit of the words have a tone of racism and hatred, those words fall into question. In the past, Ntsf has gone through great lengths to addressess others posts. He disects their posts line but line. yet, in his reply to my concerns about his over indulgence of derogatory word aimed at blacks, it appears he conveniently omited this practice. He chose instead to try and draw a parallel between how whites view racism. The premise to that argument - his argument- lacked weight. It appeared as if he was saying whites can disagree and not be called a "self Hater" or "sellout"s but black can't. For the most part, that is a smoke screen and is just not true. Hell, whites have always been fearful of voicing any concerns that would shine a positve light on blacks. Again, that subject had little to do with this issue. SMH, I don't know how that has anything to do with a person that seldom uses the words "our people", "we" or seldom shows pride for his culture. And frequently prefers a litany of responses other than prayer. It's strange that a black person continually refers to "his" race as "they". It could be tuff love but that ain't love. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3635 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"I like Ntfs A LOT. He strikes me as being a decent, principled and smart man. But I too have at times wondered if he's suffering from some of what you describe of your Mexican friend..." Not hardly. This man suffered from an identity issue. It appears after years of being pyshcologically beat down as a child by racist names (along with the perceived stigma of being of immigrant non-English speaking lineage), this lead to his desire to fade into the white Anglo world. Creating a deep source of anxiety and internal conflict. This is hardly the case for me. First of all, no one is going to confuse me for anything other than being a black man. There is nothing nebulous or surreptitious about my physical appearance. I'm a black man! So attempting to be anything other than black would be a lost cause. Secondly, I have never had any issues with being a black man and any suggestion to the contrary would be nothing short of stupid and false. So, if you were wondering if I was suffering from subconscious loathing or racial denial like this conflicted half Mexican guy, you can stop. It's ain't so bro! Never has been and never will.....TRUST ME! End of subject.... The conflict with me and other blacks centers around my intransigent unwillingness to submit to an Orwellian mindset that is supposed to demonstrate race loyalty. But there is a problem with this expectation. If I do not feel certain behavior or constructs are right -I'm going to openly and unapologetically say so. Naturally, this leads to consternation, conflict and specious accusations of disloyalty and self hate with some Negroes. Why such accusations? Well, since they cannot accurately refute nor intelligently argue against what I wrote, they take the easy way out -reactionary personal attacks and name calling. There are three things about my character that often times leads to the aforementioned. And I openly confess and make no excuses for them: 1.) I am politically incorrect, 2.) I don't soft peddle the hard issues, 3.) When the rubber meets the road on the ugly topics, if I do not agree, there is a fork in the road and I will unabashedly take one path while others will unquestionably follow the "this way sign....." of the other path. That's just the way it is. ABM, I'm sure you can appreciate this because although you and I do not always agree on a number of issues, I have always admired your willingness to assert your beliefs whether it was copasetic with the consensus or not. There have seen instances where your statements inflamed board members and a cyber lynch mob ensued. I have a great deal of respect for someone who in a storm of adversity, is willing to stand their ground for what they believe -popular or not! I like that. But the core of this flash point seems to be bro Carey's objection to the colorful adjectives and language I use. It is offensive to him. I have noticed his snide retaliatory surreptitious remarks numerous times. And that's ok because I believe an individual has the right to voice their objection to anything I or anyone else writes. Uncensored criticism and objection is the corner stone of free speech. I stand by that. But I believe he (and you) is convinced that my (at times) less than flattering language is symptomatic of a deeper underlying psychic issue. That the language is actually a rues for some kind of dark subconscious seething revulsion or disgust for black people. Such speculation is ridiculous and unprovable. But more ridiculous is the fact that the content of the message becomes secondary, even negligible because of race hypersensitivity to certain words. It's as if there is security software running in the minds of the offended, red flagging certain programmed key select words while ignoring the bulk of the traffic. Never mind if what I said is true or at least plausible, the fact that I used a particular word or phrasing is more critical than the overall message I was attempting to convey. Is the language I use harsh? Probably. Some would say so. Is it necessary? Well, given the severity and gravity of the issues I am discussing, I feel the language is a not only cathartic (for me) but accurate. Others may argue otherwise but I believe since it is my commentary, it should be discretionary. Do I care if others are offended by the language I use? Not really. Question: When someone reads my posts with all it's alleged racist overtones, after they walk away from their computer -how is their life personally affected? What aspects of their lives have changed after reading what I posted? And are they not free to rebuttal anything I write? Finally, am I going to stop? No. Why should I? As I stated before, free speech is the underlying bedrock of a democratic society. I should be free to express my beliefs just as anyone who is in disagreement is free to challenge them. Besides, it's just my opinion -not public policy or pending legal legislation. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10399 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey, My guess would be Ntfs is angry with much of the current state of affairs of Black people, especially those manifestations of such that can appear to denegrate all of us. And he is so disappointed with that he is inclined to want to very SEPARATE himself from such. Thus some of the cynical third party references to Blacks. But, to be fair, I think we can BOTH identify with that. I'll bet we both witness some of the thugrapper, saggy pants, ex-con behavior that litter so much of the popular media and discourse and regret and reject the unfair connections between ourselves and such buffoonery. So I can't in good conscience declare myself to be much different from him. I do, however, think one should consider not only what one says, how one says such but also how frequently and/or how inclined one is to engage in such. When you almost always say the same thing, the same way, the message seems quite clear and plain. I have myself over the years tried (though, alas, often in vain) to learn that lesson. But as we've both said, he's a smart man. And appear to be a fair one. So although he might loathe ADMITTING that something you said gave to him pause, I suspect his actions might speak more loudly than his words. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10400 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ntfs, I don’t think anyone here think you believe yourself to be anything other than a Black man. But I think you’d agree there are lots of people who KNOW they are Jewish who LOATHE other Jewish people. Likewise, they are lots of people who KNOW they are Black who LOATHE other Black people. Now, I should NOT pretend to know what is in your mind and spirit. So to the extent I would appear to do that, I concede such to be my error and offer an apology. But as I said before, I have witnessed a certain tone to some of your commentary that reminds me of something that might not reflect favorably of you. Now, you say you oppose abiding some sort of "race loyalty". And I would agree it is dangerous to be ruled solely by some fool racial fidelity. Still, I’ll bet your being Black is a special and important thing to you AND that very often connects you to others and them to you. You could argue the fact that we frequent this site and enjoy discussing issues that specifically refer to Black people reflect a sort of race loyalty or at the very least an appreciation for what it means to think and live as Black people, especially (though not exclusively) in the United States of America. I certainly am not BLINDLY loyal to anyone who happens to be Black. There are Black foks I wouldn’t trust past my ability to throw Mt. Everest. And there are, indeed, certain manifestations of Blackness I find reprehensible and would eschew them more quickly than any White person. Still, I remain hopeful that there is still much more good about us than there is bad. So, honestly, all things being equal (and is some cases if thing are not entirely equal), I’m going to roll with the brothas and sistas. Because there is common bond, a connection between us. And it is based on our Blackness. I appreciate your admiration of my appearing an independent thinker. But, honestly, as an adult I’ve never sought the consensus thoughts of anyone, including even myself. Within my own mind are a confluence of discrete, contradictory and opposing thoughts, viewpoints and feelings. So, Hell, if I don’t always agree with MYSELF, why should I have much a dayam about how much I agree with anyone ELSE? Hahahahahaha!!! And lastly, I wouldn’t dare try to convince you to do anything other than you choose to do here. Your conscious and conscience are your own to account for. But, you know, one of the great things I have discovered as I grow older is that as right as I were before I enjoy being even righter today and hope to become even RIGHTER tomorrow... | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2044 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: |
ABM wrote "I do, however, think one should consider not only what one says, how one says such but also how frequently and/or how inclined one is to engage in such. When you almost always say the same thing, the same way, the message seems quite clear and plain" My point exactly! I don't know why Ntsf continues to evade the obvious. You see it and I assume others do as well. He continues to rap his arms around an argument that we are disagreeing with the issues in his posts. I doubt many are buying it. Hell, the whole flavor of this board is about debating issues. Sometimes the disagreements get heated. But I guess it's time I practice what I preach. "If a man tells you who they are - believe them"! This says it all. Ntsf wrote: "Is the language I use harsh? PROBABLY. Some would say so. Is it necessary? Well, given the severity and gravity of the issues I am discussing, I feel the language is a not only CATHARTIC (FOR ME, but ACCURATE. Others may argue otherwise but I believe since it is my commentary, it should be discretionary. Do I care if others are offended by the language I use? NOT REALLY. WOW, there you have it. That came from the mouth of the man. That little paragraph was a look into a man that told us that he knew his words were offensive but it made HIM feel good! He said although he knew he offended blacks but he didn't give a damn. His words are becoming his worst enemy. It appears he tried to slip those "slap in the face" words right by us. What kind of a black man says he's gonna spit in your face "negroes" and he loves doing it? The purpose of his posts have risen to the top. i don't think anyone ever believed he was trying to school us. Nope he's been trying to pimp slap us and he knows it -- and loves it. His motives are clear -- he told us. Maybe he's practicing what he so often preaches. Maybe he thinks we are all fools. "he is so disappointed with that he is inclined to want to very SEPARATE himself from such. Thus some of the cynical third party references to Blacks" Enuf said ....if he is black, he's in denial and think we are blinded by that slow grag - weak game. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13893 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Because I seldom find myself in disagreement with NTFS and he rarely attacks me, I will reveal that I am hypercritical of black people because I set the bar high for them and if their behavior and leadship don't measure up then I express contempt. But by the same token I do give credit where credit is due. I recognize excellence when I see it, and I appreciate and admire it. (So many of the women who come to this board don't disappoint me in this area.) Yes, Blacks have common sense and mother wit and street smarts but, by and large, they are unsophisticated people. They are ignorant and know not that they are ignorant. They do things half-assed and are never more pitiful than when they are trying, but failing to be intellectual. Blacks leaders are glib but untrustworthy because they are so self-serving and publicity hungry. Of course, white people are a not perfect but that's another post. Nor am I without flaws and I acknowledge those who embark on a quest to call this to my attention. I am also amused by those who become miffed when I don't give them the response they anticipate after they have set me up in an attempt to make a point that doesn't take into consideration the alternative "what-ifs". NTFS is fairly objective when he comes to assessing black folks and that's why he draws criticism from others who choose to empathize rather than criticize. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 781 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Now, you say you oppose abiding some sort of "race loyalty". And I would agree it is dangerous to be ruled solely by some fool racial fidelity. Still, I’ll bet your being Black is a special and important thing to you AND that very often connects you to others and them to you. Okay, I want to use ABM's words to springboard to something that's been on my mind recently. There's a black woman that I follow on Twitter and whose blog I read on occasion. I've noticed LOTS of tweets from her about the denigration of black women in various arenas, and how it needs to stop. Cool; I'm all for that. But where she loses me is with statements to the affect of: "Somebody has to stand up for black women. Black MEN should be doing it, but they aren't." Now. I believe in chivalry. I like chivalry. I like that my fiance fusses at me when I try to open a door for myself or take out the garbage, etc., etc. That said, I don't believe black men as a group owe me, individually, or black women, as a whole, anything more than the basic courtesy and civility that any individual should show another. I think that black folks should work cooperatively for the issues that affect US and for the issues that affect the disadvantaged among US and beyond. But I can't go much beyond that and say that somebody owes somebody else something "special". (With two exceptions: I think the elderly are owed an overabundance of respect and concern, and children are owed protection). Also, if black men owe black women something, does that mean black women owe black men something? If not, why not? If so, what? I can't think of anything, so again, the concept falls apart for me. A few years ago, a black male friend called me up and apologized to me on behalf of all black men. I'm sorry...but I laughed and scoffed at him. I appreciated his intentions, but seriously? There are black women out there he needs to apologize to...but they probably won't take his calls. And to be sure, there are a couple of black men from whom I would appreciate an apology, but I'm not holding my breath. The symbolism thing doesn't work for me. Neither does the "group" thing, always and everywhere. I think it comes down to how we treat the individuals in our sphere of influence and how we work to make the world a more just and loving place in that same sphere. I don't think we can impose a sense of obligation on anyone and call it sincere or loving. I think of black folks as "we" sometimes, and as "they" at other times, depending on the situation. What ABM conjectured about NTSF is true of me: being Black is a special and important thing to me and very often it connects me to others and them to me. But sometimes it doesn't. Would love to know what others think. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13896 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
IMO, it's not like we have a choice. Black folk are inexolerably bound together not by how we relate to each other individually by how other races perceive us collectively. Our individuality is not an entitlement. That's why there is so much conflict among us; we are each resentful over being lumped with the group. But, just because we deplore symbolism, doesn't discount it. As a people, we are like a chain that is only as strong as the weakest link and if that ain't authentic symbolism, then I don't know what is. If a black man wants to apologize to you on behalf of all black men. Why sweat this gesture? Give him a hug and say, "thanks, Bro". | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 782 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Black folk are inexolerably bound together not by how we relate to each other individually by how other races perceive us collectively. I agree. As a people, we are like a chain that is only as strong as the weakest link and if that ain't authentic symbolism, then I don't know what is. Agreed. My problem isn't with authentic symbolism; it's with what I perceive as empty symbolism. If a black man wants to apologize to you on behalf of all black men. Why sweat this gesture? Because he has nothing to apologize to me for, and because he does have real apologies and amends to make to other women. Having had to ask for as well as give forgiveness at various junctures throughout my life, I consider it to be a very powerful, very personal thing. I know it can be hard to ask for, and perhaps harder to grant. In this case, I believe the "symbolic" act diminishes the meaning. NTFS's comments about the Million Man March come mind: What's the impact of such an apology? To each her own. I know there are some women for whom those kinds of gestures are quite meaningful. Oh, and I don't dismiss how affirming those apologies can be to women who don't feel affirmed or respected or valued. They just don't do anything for me. All that said, I probably still could have been nicer to the guy who offered me the symbolic apology, but he was always feeling guilty about something, and looking for ways to self-flagellate, and so I lost patience. So I viewed his efforts as not only not about me and definitely about other women, but also really about his relationship with his mother, which I know is very unhealthy. Just call me Dr. Freud. ;-) | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3636 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"My point exactly! I don't know why Ntsf continues to evade the obvious. You see it and I assume others do as well. He continues to rap his arms around an argument that we are disagreeing with the issues in his posts." You realize you are not making any sense don't you? First of all, I did not and am not evading anything.....PERIOD! There is no need for me to do so especially when addressing you. I am more than capable of answering any questions and giving my opinion in a cogent and clear manner. Perhaps you are having comprehension problems. I was very clear about this entire subject in my last post. There was nothing vague nor cryptic about what I said. What did you not comprehend? "I doubt many are buying it." "Buying what?" There is nothing to buy. I stated who I am and why I write what I do. I was very clear and straight forward about it. Again -WHAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?? "This says it all. Ntsf wrote: "Is the language I use harsh? PROBABLY. Some would say so. Is it necessary? Well, given the severity and gravity of the issues I am discussing, I feel the........ WOW, there you have it. That came from the mouth of the man." Yep! Ya got that right! Next..... "That little paragraph was a look into a man that told us that he knew his words were offensive but it made HIM feel good! He said although he knew he offended blacks but he didn't give a damn. His words are becoming his worst enemy. It appears he tried to slip those "slap in the face" words right by us. What kind of a black man says.......... to pimp slap us and he knows it -- and loves it. His motives are clear -- he told us." Wow! You really are struggling aren't you? Let me help you Carey.....What I meant was given the severity of the issues that I may be commenting about, the language is warranted and the catharsis comes from expressing my outrage at inexcusable bad behavior. Ya got that!! Now, you can attempt to spin it any way you want. But you are making my case with every sentence you write. Did you know that? Can't debate the issues? Can't form a concise and piercing argument? Well, just continue to play the race card, cast transparent dispersion and avoid the content of the writers message. Just focus on "words" that offend your racial hypersensitivity. Never mind the fact that everything elses in the commentary is well documented and true. "Maybe he's practicing what he so often preaches. Maybe he thinks we are all fools." We??? Who is we? Are you referring to yourself and that hamster in your front shirt pocket? There you go again. Your grandiose Negrosity has you believing there is a mob behind you. Look again bro -you're by yourself!!! You're the one throwing temper tantrums over my posts and playing (and quite desperately) the tired race card. But what else can you realistically do? It's not as if you have any other options..... "he is so disappointed with that he is inclined to want to very SEPARATE himself from such. Thus some of the cynical third party references to Blacks" Separate myself from what? I never said that. And for the record, separation is a non-issue. It's recognizing and collectively condemning and addressing reckless poor behavior. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Your desperate attempts at creating a straw man of racial impropriety is failing! But you still don't get it do you? One more time because all of this seems to have unfairly taxed your brain: I'm not a participant, supporter nor an apologist for abject hood rat coonery. And I have no issues expressing my disdain for it. So if the language offends you -get over it! You're a big boy my friend, I'm sure you can manage somehow. "Enuf said ....if he is black, he's in denial......" Denial? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny. Look Carey, I know you are desperate and your frantic inability to provide a specific post or commentary to illustrate something I said about unruly self destructive Negroes which was false, is glaring. Also, you need to provide proof to illustrate my alleged (according to you) long standing confessions of denying that I am black. Accusing me doesn't hold water if the only proof you have is no more than a clear reflection of you ultra thin skin. One more thing because I feel this has to be said. Did you know that I actually have no issues or problems with you Carey? Often times I did not understand you obtuse humor or failed attempts to metaphorical. But out side of that, I don't really recall having any serious problems with you. But unfortunately, you have serious issues with me. And that's ok since as I have repeatedly said, you have every right to question or challenge anything I write. But I guess we can be civil, agree to disagree and call it day.......*shrugs*...... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13897 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
As you probably know, FK, people who apologize are usually doing so to exonerate themselves. What better way to feel superior than to magnanimously accept their apologies, make the sign of the cross, and forgive them for their sins. By telling these self-serving repenters to "go in peace", you are also fulfilling one of your lofty goals to make this cruel world a more "just and loving place".  | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 783 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Well, since you put it that way, Cynique, the next time some well-intentioned brotha does the "sister, I'm sorry" thing, I'll absolve him. Now where's my incense and cross...? ;-) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13900 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
We, cool. FK!  | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13902 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Damn, NTFS! Is it any wonder I'm always suckin up to you? Anything to avoid one of your blow-by-blow attacks on my mentality!  | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2047 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Next page. *shrug* Hey, I went to see a black play tonight, Raisen In the Sun. They killed it, the cast was great. I got a chance to talk with the cast after the performance. I asked them if anyone of them modeled their character off one of the movies we've all seen. Several said yes. No one said Puffy. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2048 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Btw, Yvettep for President and her running mate has to be Ferocious Kitty *wink*. Thanks love! | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 784 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Like an iceberg in Chi-town in January, Cynique! Aw, thanks, Carey-Carey! "Raisin in the Sun" always makes me sad because I think about Lorraine Hansberry dying so young. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3637 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Yes, Blacks have common sense and mother wit and street smarts but, by and large, they are unsophisticated people. They are ignorant and know not that they are ignorant. They do things half-assed and are never more pitiful than when they are trying, but failing to be intellectual. Blacks leaders are glib but untrustworthy because they are so self-serving and publicity hungry." And there ya have it.....Oh yeah, ummmm....you do realize Ms. Cynique that you have now been added to Carey's empirical "black self hate" list? Just thought I'd call it to your attention if you weren't aware.... | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2049 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
See, you couldn't leave it alone, Ntsf. You're just like the white man that offered the Indians a deal and we all know how that turned out. Look, you remind me of that Bill O Rielly dude, forever trying to shift the issue. Certain people can say certain things but it's been noted that you have no balance. Did you think you could drag along and we'd forget what this was about. You never claim "your" race...... Someone wrote: ...."he is so disappointed with that he is inclined to want to very SEPARATE himself from such. Thus some of the cynical third party references to Blacks" You frequently refer to blacks as they. Did you really think we forgot! Did you think we haven't notice how often you kill threads by interjecting you race hating. Come on man, don't do this to yourself. 2 days ago, Urban-Scribe said it without fear when she told someone to get the phuk out of here. I laughed my ass off because I've been told the same thing. It was true, I was jacking a thread. If you want to hate, start your own post. Yeah, if you wish to rant about dem poor ol'stankin blacks, start a thread and call it that ...."NTSF's po'black babies". You're no better than a roach. Yep, they hide in grocery bags (good food) and then pop out and start mess (I bet you got that metaphor). Lets see how many people join into a post titled ..."Lets kick niggers". You're good at writing those types of posts. In fact, do you know that you have over 500 posts in which you drop derogatory comments about black people. Sure you do, because you wrote them. FIVE HUNDRED!!!!!.........AND SOME!!! Your words speak for you bruh! Nawl my "bro", we ain't forgot .....ABM wrote: "I do, however, think one should consider not only what one says, how one says such but also how frequently and/or how inclined one is to engage in such. When you almost always say the same thing, the same way, the message seems quite clear and plain" Say Opps/ up/side the head/say opps upside the head! No no, your extended hand was just another fake. You can't hide. You just have to be who your are and we all know what that is. But we can be civil about this and agree to disagree ....**shrug**.....whatcha say. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2050 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yes Kitty, Lorraine Hansberry is missed. You probably know this but actors love doing her play because her stage direction is so clear. Do you remember the character BoBo? Well, last night I didn't think the actor nailed his part. I asked the lead (Mamma) what she thought of the role. She said Lorraine Hansberry was very clear on how this man should be feeling "and it wasn't that". On Wednesday night we took a group of upward bound students (50)who have been studying the play. Let me tell you kitty, these kids don't miss a beat! In one scene Walter's wife has a line that says, "that's how the cracker crumbles". Then she follows that line with "joke". Well, the students (black & white) noticed the actress had turned away from her fellow actors and look at the crowd while finishing her line. They didn't like that because they felt it seemed apologetic to the white people in the crowd. I am sure you've been in a few stage plays? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13903 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
"you do realize Ms. Cynique that you have now been added to Carey's empirical "black self hate" list? Just thought I'd call it to your attention if you weren't aware...." Yes, I know I qualify for this dubious distinction, NTFS. But people like me and you add dimension to the blackness debate. All of the bleeding heart apologists who are in denial and who think silence is a substitute for the truth need somebody to balance their blind loyalty. As long as we are equally contemptuous of white right wing, conservative, bible-thumpin, super patriotic, war mongering, racist white folks of the the Rush Limbaugh variety, our black credentials remain in tact. Especially since nobody yet exists who can anoint one black person as being more legitimate than another. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3638 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"See, you couldn't leave it alone, Ntsf. You're just like the white man that offered the Indians a deal and we all know how that turned out." Offered the Indians a deal? Sorry bro, I'm aware of the historical context of the statement but I don't know what it has to do with me. You need to work on your metaphors and associations more. Nice try though....... "Look, you remind me of that Bill O Rielly dude, forever trying to shift the issue." No shift. I have been very clear and very emphatic about every thing I have said. Once again, it's the dyslexia or chemical influence that is impairing your comprehension and reading ability. "Certain people can say certain things but it's been noted that you have no balance." No balance? Well, it's very clear you have not read my posts thru the past few years. You just confirmed it with that capricious statement. Once again -you continue to make my cases for me. Thank you.... "Did you think you could drag along and we'd forget what this was about......Did you really think we forgot!" We??!! There you go again! You and that hamster....... "Did you think we haven't notice how often you kill threads by interjecting you race hating." Kill threads by race hate? Groan.....Carey....Just exactly how do you define "killing threads with race hate"? My God!!! You are desperate aren't you? I don't recall one post where I said I hated anyone. In fact, I'm not into hating. Requires too much energy. And besides, the people you are hating generally don't know you're doing it and if they did, they probably could care less. What's the point? Did you know this? "You're good at writing those types of posts. In fact, do you know that you have over 500 posts in which you drop derogatory comments about black people. Sure you do, because you wrote them. FIVE HUNDRED!!!!!.........AND SOME!!!" 500 hundred posts??? And you know this how??? You inventoried all my posts for content? OMG!!! How do you know it's 500 (and some) and not 700 or 350? Bro, you got too much time on your hands. And if it is 500 -standby for another 500! "But we can be civil about this and agree to disagree ....**shrug**.....whatcha say." Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3639 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"Yes, I know I qualify for this dubious distinction, NTFS. But people like me and you add dimension to the blackness debate. All of the bleeding heart apologists who are in denial and who think silence is a substitute for the truth need somebody to balance their blind loyalty." Thank you Ms. Cynique. I could not have said it better. The cowardly apologists will never have balance in their never ending mantra of the evils and wrong doing of the white man. We are all cognizant and aware of our history of oppression, slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings and segregation. We are also aware that such bigotry and discrimination still exists. WE KNOW THIS AND I DON'T RECALL ANY ONE DENYNG IT (except for Alan Keyes and Rev. Jesse L. Peterson)! But you and I (and hopefully a few others) are not willing to give black folks a free pass for nihilistic self destructive behavior, failure to take advantage of the opportunities that everyone else does or utilize the resources that are available to them. We also refuse to turn our heads in deliberate mute silence to the emergence of virulent ruinous coon culture that has proven to be more destructive than racism will ever be. You see, apologists and thin skinned excuse makers like bro Carey will hysterically scream foul and frantically accuse you of race hate or self hate because you dared to hold someone accountable for the inexcusable poor decisions they make. He will not tolerate any honest questioning of coonery behavior and lifestyles. "Wha...?? Don't be talkin' bout my peoples!! Who you think you is?/!! You like white people and hate the black peoples! You hate yourself!! You...you don't want to be black!!!!" "As long as we are equally contemptuous of white right wing, conservative, bible-thumpin, super patriotic, war mongering, racist white folks of the the Rush Limbaugh variety, our black credentials remain in tact. Especially since nobody yet exists who can anoint one black person as being more legitimate than another." Agreed. I have nothing but the highest level of disdain and contempt for race arsonists like Rush Limbaugh and right wing fascists like Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Michael Reagan or the transsexual looking screamin' banchi, Ann Coulter. I also cannot understand the self deprecating Negrosity mindset of Project 21. I have no problems with their stead fast condemnation of self sustained Negro failure but we part ways when they shamelessly turn their heads and look the other way (like the pro bono coon apologists) when the real issues of the racism and bigotry of their counterparts (white conservatives) is questioned. They constantly rail against white liberals and blacks but will never open their mouths in opposition or revulsion at the open racial hostility of white conservatives. I have yet to see Thomas Sowell, Star Parker, Larry Elder or Shelby Steele, verbally or write an article, aggressively condemning racism or the antics of white conservatives. NEVER! You and I have no problems voicing our disapproval of white conservative narrow mindedness and their Lawn Jockey Negro surrogates or the excesses of hood rat coonery. I think our many posts (500 or more for me!) document this fact. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13908 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Whew! I appreciate that you are passionate about this subject, NTFS, - a lot more passionate than I am. The black race is full of diversity, and the fact that we are not of the "cookie-cutter" mode is a plus not a minus. I think there is room for all kinds of variations on the theme of blackness. I have no problem with people doing their thing as long as it's not violent. We can't all be Obama clones. Some of us can be in the key of rappers Jay_Z and Kanye West, or comedians like Chris Rock and Monique or the street lit authors. These are all people who some might brand with the infamous "coonery" label because they are edgy and vulgar. They have created a niche for themselves, some of them earning millions, very often giving back to their communities. They have a right to do their thing and are, incidentally, just as quick to criticize the phoniness of the "bougie" lifestyle, all in the name of "keepin it real". So be it. Yes, we have power-hungry leaders who create a need for their leadership by absolving people of the blame for their problems. But there are also those who are sincerely working to bring about positive changes. As I have said, I believe in giving credit where credit is due. My problem is with the burgeoning black underclass who continue to wallow in a sub-culture that does nothing but perpetuate a dead-end life style of babies' mamas and absentee fathers. Their chief accomplishment has been to saturate the ghettos with the undiciplined school kids disrupting class rooms, mimicking the attitudes of their young unskilled parents who are more concerned with hair weaves than homework. These baby factories also supply the gang industry with its victims and victimizers, and the prison industry with its inmates. If I lash out against people of my race, it's because I am disappointed that when it comes to improving their lots, a whole segment of the population can't or won't do the simplest of things to make their chances in life better. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10402 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty, For me, it's less an issue or question of what Black foks "owe" each other. But rather, whether they are more inclined to share and appreciate certain aspects of life, based on certain life experiences, and the degree to which those shared experiences form how we think and respond. If there is commonality amongst what we think and do, we are more likely to form certain connections to and obligations towards each other. Because we've been and are going to much the SAME places. And we all may need help GETTING there. So, perhaps you and I differ. But as I said before, if I've got to look out for someone and in all other respects things are equal, I am MORE likely to look out for a Black person. Because I think a sista or brotha is MORE likely to look out for me. And that ain't based some fool race loyalty. That is based on my LIFE EXPERIENCE. But acknowledge that foks life experiences differ. *shrugs* | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2053 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
BAM! These are strong statements. Abm wrote: "If there is commonality amongst what we think and do, we are more likely to form certain connections to and obligations towards each other. Because we've been and are going to much the SAME places. And we all may need help GETTING there. And that ain't based some fool race loyalty. That is based on my LIFE EXPERIENCE" This wrapped it up ..."Because I think a sista or brotha is MORE likely to look out for me" It ain't some fool race loyalty ...my my my! | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2054 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Those were the words of a real black man. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2055 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
He ain't affraid to say he's black and he's proud. Unlike the words of ...well? | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 785 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for your response, ABM! In particular, though, do you think black MEN owe black WOMEN something...that presumably they don't owe others? Protection, respect, admiration...? This was the tenor of the Twitter posts that I was referring to. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10403 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty, You're welcome. Define "owe"... | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 787 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
@ABM, Hmm...Hard to guess at someone's intentions, but here's the basic gist, from my original post: There's a black woman that I follow on Twitter and whose blog I read on occasion. I've noticed LOTS of tweets from her about the denigration of black women in various arenas, and how it needs to stop. Cool; I'm all for that. But where she loses me is with statements to the affect of: "Somebody has to stand up for black women. Black MEN should be doing it, but they aren't." Based on that, I would say that she believes black men have an obligation to stand up for* black women; they "owe" it to us. I don't know exactly what she would like to see happening that's not happening. There are individual black men who honor and respect and uphold the dignity of black men--I'm talking average Joes, as well as our self-appointed leaders--and of course, there are those who don't. Isn't that pretty much like everything else in life: some do, some don't? Not sure how someone can say that black men as a whole are failing at this--if in fact, they even "owe" us in the first place. Which is my question... Also...if black men owe black women something, does that mean black women owe black men something? Hope that's clearer. *In the original post, I wrote in error: "...stand up TO black women"...LOL! | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10404 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty, I DO think I owe Black women more of a chance for me to want to protect, respect and admire them than I do other women. Because I am more directly connect to and familiar with what you have to endure. I see much more of my OWN mother, wife, daughter, sister and other female kin and friend in ALL Black women. And I do think there is a karmic connection between how I treat other Black women and how others my treat the women I love. And as I stated in a prior post, based on prior EXPERIENCE, I believe I am in generally MORE likely to get a return on my giving special consideration to Black women. However, there are degrees and limits to how I might feel and act upon any sort of fidelity to Black women. And your behavior in general, and especially to ME will materially influence whether or how I feel any sort of obligation to you. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 788 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
However, there are degrees and limits to how I might feel and act upon any sort of fidelity to Black women. And your behavior in general, and especially to ME will materially influence whether or how I feel any sort of obligation to you. Okay, I think this touched on part of what I was reacting to in those tweets. How can one say that this whole group owes something to this other whole group when there are so many individual dynamics at play?--in your words, the behavior of a particular woman or a particular man. I don't believe that black men have failed black women; if anything, I believe that we have failed each other...and our children...but that's another rant, for another day... I acknowledge that as a generality, however. Anyway....I just imagine her tweets might be off-putting to a black man reading them who DOES feel a kinship with black women and who wants to respect/protect us. I can't imagine responding well to someone trying to berate or shame me into doing something of that sort. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2056 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
As a outsider in this present discussion, I've noticed a few things. Kitty, I think you and Abm are basically saying the same thing. It appears (in your original post) that you didn't think this brotha owed "you" anything. I believe that's why some apologies fall on deaf ears. You also wrote: "Based on that, I would say that she believes black men have an obligation to stand up for* black women; they "owe" it to us" Like you said, there are "averaqe joes". And in that line of thinking I believe her statement was meant to be viewed in general terms. Yet, as a whole I do believe black men "owe" more to our black women than we've been giving them. Will I ever feel a need to apologize for the missteps of others? No!` So again, "And your behavior in "GENERAL", and especially to ME will materially influence whether or how I feel any sort of obligation to you" I feel you both are basically saying the same thang. You were saying "they" don't owe you shit. *lol* | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10405 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty, BM are accustomed to being runned down by BW, be it fair or unfair, right or wrong. It happens so much, it's become a sort of noise we become accustomed to ignoring and/or living with (like how foks learn to live with residing near trains track and subways). Moreover, although many of us would declare otherwise, to a great extent BM do feel obliged to protect and honor BW. I believe all males to some extent have a sort of kneejerk desire to protect the female of their race, and this is accentuated by the uniquely troublesome history of Black people in this country. However, we are a much more evolved and balanced society than we were several generations ago. BM and BW can survive and thrive APART in ways and to degrees their grandparents might not have considered possible. So while the more traditionally manly aspects of my character might feel inclined to defend BW my more enlighten self might think it often better that I faciliate the removal of impediments of her doing for herself. And focus more protecting and preserving what's more closely MINE to protect and preserve. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 789 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, Carey and ABM. Your comments solidify my belief that the "black men have let us down" rhetoric isn't likely to encourage black men to "do better"--which, of course, will mean different things to different black women...and to different black men. Wasn't the Million Man March essentially black men saying to black men, "Step up. We can do better." I think black men can better hear that coming from other black men. Remember Promise Keepers? Are they still around? I have daughters (and soon, stepdaughters). I believe that first and foremost they must uphold their own honor and dignity, regardless of whether black men, or any men, choose to uphold them similarly. In another conversation here, Yvette said: Like attracts like. Respect demands respect. Or something like that, lol. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3640 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"Those were the words of a real black man"........  ............ | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13914 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
One thing which struck me in the exchange between FK and ABM was their lack of rapport. I didn't get the impression that they bridged the gap and resolved their differences. Were the parallel paths of their discourse a microcosm of the larger picture where too often brothas emit hot air, and sistas dispense cool logic. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10406 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty: "I think black men can better hear that coming from other black men...I have daughters (and soon, stepdaughters). I believe that first and foremost they must uphold their own honor and dignity, regardless of whether black men, or any men, choose to uphold them similarly." I agree. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3642 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Ferociouskitty: "I think black men can better hear that coming from other black men...I have daughters (and soon, stepdaughters). I believe that first and foremost they must uphold their own honor and dignity, regardless of whether black men, or any men, choose to uphold them similarly." I agree." Well, that makes two of us.......... |
