| Author | Message | ||
     Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2202 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
Troy, I really liked you and enjoyed your posts up until I discovered this comment you made in the P. Diddy thread, "Yeah, I can't bring myself to get riled up about this issue. One; for the points Carey and Chris raised and two; who really other than the models who were excluded from the jobs gives a darn. If his majesty Diddy decided he wanted dark skinned models this sister would be too busy twisting her tail in a Ciroc ad to launcha boycott. Do guys actually buy Ciroc, cause some yellow gal is in (or not in) the ad with a shaded Diddy -- puhleese! Seriously, I'm sure someone has determined that the fairer sisters, with straight hair, slender bodies, less pronounced facial features, have the broadest appeal to gents of all races. While he may be attempting to capitalize on this I can't blame Diddy or even hip-hop for this..." it really hurt my feelings and stung. I was hoping you would defend black women but you didn't. You seem like such a nice man and I was so dissapointed to read this. Just had to get this off my chest. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13672 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Why do "black" women have to be defended any more than any other women who don't conform to the paragon of the market place. It's all about supply and demand. People with an entrepreneur mind-set don't endorse that which is unprofitable. There is no place for whiners in the world. People have to create their own niches in life. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10361 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Troy, Bruh, I had a feeling your candor on that issue would come back in bite you in the arse. I mean, GOD forbid that YOU or all men here express a view that do not neatly jive with what sistas otherwise want to believe and witness... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13673 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Obviously I am one sista who doesn't have a problem with Troy's honesty. | ||
| Serenasailor AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1906 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
It's not that ABM it just the fact that Kola,Brownbeauty and I are just shocked and a bit saddened by how some Black Americans see themselves. As less than, or inferior. To make it worse is that Troy is a Black man with 2 little Black daughters. So what is the message he is sending? Even if Troy was telling his daughters that P.Diddy and those of his "ilk" don't define there beauty. His daughters as well as him can still "sense" the insincerity in his comments. Since he doesn't believe that himself. Also, what is disturbing is that Black men like him don't challenge the "status quo". That he as well as his daughters could be sitting back and accepting things as is. Now I may be wrong!! However, Troy is the type of Black man who will sit back and say nothing as P.Diddy and Black men like him physically, verbally, and sexually abuse Black women for not looking like the women they see in the media. That is just as bad if not worse than than doing the actual abusing themselves. To just sit back and say nothing is just like condoning it. Also, Cynique of course you would say something like that. Seeing as how women that look like you were at one time and still to a lesser extent were celebrated in the Black media. And it was for the benefit of Black women that look like you that Black men dehumanized,disrespected and disallowed Black women that looked like Kola and Brownbeauty over. I just can't wait to see the look on your face when Black men start doing the same thing to women that look like you. They are already doing it were I live. It just hasn't reached you yet. | ||
| Serenasailor AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1907 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
Obviously I am one sista who doesn't have a problem with Troy's honesty. Uh!! Maybe cause you ain't a sista at all!!! Maybe because you are just another White woman in disguise. Yall know the type many yella women are. Cynique is just talking like this because Black men haven't fully dethroned her high yella butt yet. However, "mark my words" they will. As soon as more "Becky's" start throwing away there inhibitions as well as there virginity she will feel it. The real "niche" that his going to have to be created is by you high yella women. Dark sista's are already used to being ignored, disrespected and dehumanized so the treatment is normal to us. You yellow women are going to have to go to rehab, and start support groups to get over your shock. | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 5017 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
QUOTE ABM: I mean, GOD forbid that YOU or all men here express a view that do not neatly jive with what sistas otherwise want to believe and witness...} __________ Yeah...especially after 500 years of LITERALLY carrying grown ass Black Men on their BACKS and waging full scale war against White America because of the discrimination aimed at Black men... I could certainly see why the daughters of Mary Mcleoud Bethune, Rosa Parks, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman and Fannie Lou Hamer would feel betrayed that a BLACK MAN would now say it's Honkey-Dorey to openly discriminate against Black women seeking a goddamn paycheck! Every black woman in your past ought to reach up out of the grave and smack the shit out of you, ABM...because you're failing to see the stagnant PRINCIPLE in your selfish and bullshit lament. Though this may shock you, ABM...black females are human beings and have CIVIL RIGHTS under the law. They were NOT REJECTED from modeling jobs. They were PREVENTED FROM EVEN BEING ALLOWED AUDITION... ...because of their race and their color---which was specifically mentioned in the original AD, which I and 50,000 other people read before PUFF TRASH and the Vodka company removed and denied it. Now your Martin Luther King quoting ass is the biggest hypocrite in here if you're telling me this is just business and its OK. There aint shit that YOU, Cynique, Yvette, Troy and no got-damned body else can tell me to JUSTIFY the actions of Puff TRASH and his blatant, illegal colorism. I wish the fukkk GQ Magazine would tell "Black Male Models" that they aren't allowed to even audition for the "Man of the Year" issue...and then see what you SELFISH punk ass Black Men would be ssaying then. And GOD FORBID black women didn't jump on the band wagon and support your Whining asses in your MARCH ON MADISON AVE. because the Black man's Dick and Ego was being DISALLOWED from representation. It would be an all out revolution. But when it comes to Black Women and Children, you suddenly can't see why Black women would be HURT, INSULTED and BETRAYED. Mofo don't say SHIT to me! You just killed Martin Luther King....for me. I knew Malcolm X was the real man. You goddamn right you and Troy and every damn body else should have showed SUPPORT for sisters---on fukk'n GP, general principal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't come telling me that goddamn shit that Black women don't deserve support. And you Black American MEN are the worst fukk'n SONS a mother could have! YOU KILL YOUR OWN MOTHER---FOR BUSINESS? It's OK to keep black girls from even AUDITIONING but you whine about Police brutality and Lynching? FUKKK YOU! YOU NEED TO BE LYNCHED! . | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 5018 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
QUOTE CYNIQUE: It's all about supply and demand. People with an entrepreneur mind-set don't endorse that which is unprofitable. Naomi Campbell IMAN Since when did "dark skinned black women" become UNPROFITABLE in marketing ads? ESPECIALLY ADS having to do with "sex" and "getting drunk." The two women who ranked as the WORLD'S #1 Supermodels for the last 35 years were both DARK SKINNED Black women. NOT Cindy Crawford NOT Gisele NOT Kate Moss NOT Claudia Shiffer NOT Tyra Banks NOT Kathy Ireland All those women "Faded out" after a few years...but NAOMI and IMAN became ICONIC WONDER-BRANDS superceding mere modeling ...as DONALD TRUMP CALLS THEM, "WONDER BRANDS." And are BOTH still the most famous "name-recognition" models ON EARTH. Would you like to dispute Donald Trump, Cynique? Granted, these Black women weren't Americans and as bell hooks wrote....they never would have seen the light of day had "Black America" been needed in order for them to rise. But what exactly do YOU, Cynique, know about Business? You must be the one who told ZANE that her tv show wouldn't work with gorgeous black women in it.... ...despite the fact that the highest grossing Black films and mini-series of all time ("COLOR PURPLE", "WAITING TO EXHALE", "THE WOMEN OF BREWSTER PLACE") all feature women who look like the MAJORITY of Black America...dark skinned black women. Just imagine what ground ZANE could have broke and how WILDLY POPULAR her show would be if she had been a "trendsetter" and put Black Female Sexuality on the screen at last. But I guess she was listening to you. And not the fact that 80% of Black American women are "Brown to dark skinned" and are notorious for making the things that CATER to them---BLOW UP! Just ask Denzel Washington. He has said more than 5 times publicly that he affords his Box-office success to BLACK WOMEN and the fact that they were the only group who PAID to see his films 3 or 4 times each. Got more to say about the UNPROFITABILITY of Black women, Cynique? You're fulla shit, Cynique and you're plain WRONG! Dark Skinned women can be VERY GOOD BUSINESS when colorstruck people aren't out to cut them down based on Color Prejudice and idiotic statements like the one you made. QUOTE CYNIQUE: Obviously I am one sista who doesn't have a problem with Troy's honesty. You're the same plantation House Marm who helped black BOYS remain BOYS enslaved in this country for 400 years by telling them it's just the natural order of things, Cynique. Just business as usual. "REAL BLACK WOMEN" like Harriett Tubman and Sojourner Truth...set those boys free. You're the same woman who CREATED these colorstruck, sick, sorry mofos and condones their BS. So of course you're throwing Black Girls looking for work under the bus to protect the WRONGNESS of your rotten hateful HYPOCRITE ass sons! Harriet Tubman wrote AT LENGTH about "sisters" like you and how she had to literally whoop the shit out of them, because they liked the system the way it was. Change is coming, Cynique. You're about to see PUFF DIDDYS career FALL like it never has before. He's going to be buried deeper than Wesley Snipes...and he can thank men like TROY and ABM and their "indifference" for that. And the ADVENT of the "dark skinned black woman" is more than on the rise. Because right now, the only person she really has to be LOYAL TO...is herself. In her alone-ness and genetic strength, she's the only hope our people (worldwide) really have for integrity and survival. She is the AUTHENTIC Black woman. And she IS the meteor that is coming to this earth. Not these Hypocrite ass colorstruck sell-out black men who make Martin Luther King look like a damn Mythical Heretic. . | ||
| Schakspir AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 1262 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: |
"And you Black American MEN are the worst fukk'n SONS a mother could have!" But Tim, the sons reflect the poisons of the mother. Maybe you should stop trying to turn your children into--oh, hell, just stop pretending you are a BLACK WOMAN when in fact you are a WHITE MALE LIVING IN AMSTERDAM with a BLOG online written in the SAME STYLE of KOLA BOOF. Boof/Barrus: I'm glad someone finally mentioned the employees at the New York Times who moderate their comments section. Instead of finding a way to actually interact with its readership, what the paper does is maintain a Taliban Morality Army To Fight Criticism. The New York Times can dish it out but they cannot take it. And they cling to a publishing paradigm that is over. It's finished. It is now just a caricature. Take the book section. I'd get these outraged emails from their editors that would say, "The New York Times does not tolerate ad hominem attacks." Which is patently absurd. It becomes hilarious. In their reporting, their book reporter, Motoko Rich, who was shifted over from real estate, claims with all sincerity, that I, in fact, do not exist. I fell under my desk laughing at that one. I guess she forgot to consult her own paper because I have written for it and been published there. While the reporting itself can sound thoroughly informed, it frequently isn't. It is disingenuous at best. I am very critical of the book section because the format is an antique. Jane Austen might love it, writers read it, which makes it literally an industry trade publication, one that has grown outrageously ripe with incest, but it is essentially, and fundamentally irrelevant. It reaches an age group of boomers becoming older boomers. It decidedly does not reach a younger and more vital audience. This audience has come to expect at least some interactivity. But their monitors apply a rigid and absolutely inconsistent CENSORSHIP where what gets published are comments that praise the New York Times. It regards anything other than that as an ad hominem attack. They actually, honestly believe (the arrogance is breathtaking) that their interactions with readers is not germane to numbers. We don't matter. We don't count. And they actually take the position that we do not exist. Say what. I don't know where they live but it isn't the real world. They simply do not rock and they do not roll. After a while of this silliness, you are forced to conclude, they never will. They didn't keep up. It passed them by. And instead of scrambling to understand new media paradigms, they cling to what they know which is a dinosaur. I would argue that their comments sections are quite important and that they would be compelled to become more tolerant but the emails I get from their editors make this paper sound as if it is being edited by my grandmother. I conducted a web campaign called STOP COMMENTING AT THE NEW YORK TIMES TO STOP CENSORSHIP. And received over ten-thousand responses on the first day. When I pointed this out to their management, their own response was: it doesn't matter. I know this: losing ten thousand readers a day could matter very much. My work has been extensively reviewed by their book section and in their column on the media. They call me "disturbing." Get a grip, New York Times. This is not the prim and proper era of literary Victorianism that they so wish would return. Yearn all you want, the horse died, and my grandmother did, too. It isn't going to return. Their breathing has taken place in such high stratospheric levels that they have become unable to recognize that the oxygen up there is tougher and tougher to survive by. I actually hate to see it go. But you will make no headway facilitating the New York Times to engage in any self-examination whatsoever. It's maddening. I have now switched sadness to enjoying the sight of the old lady's fall. http://le-too.blogspot.com Tim Barrus, Amsterdam | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13674 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, "Serena Sailor" you've coincidentally appeared on the scene taking time a way from your desigated role of being a young college boy to embrace your true role of a dummy moving your mouth while a ventriloquist speaks. All I have to say to a wooden head troll like you is STFU | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 5020 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yes, Tim Barrus is writing all of this, not Kola Boof. It's like when someone pretended to be Maya Angelou. Kola Boof does not post on the internet in fact. I never claimed she did. I'm Tim Burrus. Go and compare our writings and you'll see that the very "reliable" Schakspir is right. BTW, to all those who wrote emails asking why Schakspir only posts when Kola Boof re-emerges and what his obsession is? He's part of the scheme to give Kola Boof a presence on the internet when she is clearly not speaking for herself or posting any of this. This is another Maya Angelou internet hoax. Thanks for reading. . | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 5022 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, you know I love you, King. You're my favorite person on here. But I am a dark skinned black woman. I was once, 20 years ago, a model. Everything you're saying is pissing me off. I'm going to ignore this thread, because it gets me too hyped up & upset. - | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13675 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Oh shut up Kola. You've been sitting back in the cut waiting for a slow day so you could trot out your favorite ol tired argument about your favorite ol tired subject, via your favorite ol tired trolls.  We've heard it all before from you and I ain't even wasting my time and energy responding to your ranting because that would require me to plow through all that BS you've been grunting out for years. I put "black" in quotes in my post because I was referring to all sistas. There are ads and roles where sistas would not be selected because they were too light-skinned. Just depends on what audience is the target. Profit remains the bottom line. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 1882 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
I can't believe we are up in here talking that same tired mess. Look, it appears to a old ploy to drop Troy's name in the mess, as if he's done something wrong. I think some need to read Troy's post real carefully and see what he was saying. If some wish to read into it something he did not say then that's on them. Troy he even came back and addressed the issue but some wish to stay in denial. Yep, so they can trumpet an issue that has long been dead. There was NOTHING in Troy's post that remotely inplied that he was championing ANY color! Where are yawl coming from?!? | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10363 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Let's cut right through all the bvllsheht and just kick it all real for a sec: Who amongst Troy's polemics here have DONE more to promote or to facilitate the honoring of the genius, talents, splendor and beauty of Black women - in ALL it's glorious colors, facets and manifestations - than has TROY? WHO? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2203 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"I put "black" in quotes in my post because I was referring to all sistas. There are ads and roles where sistas would not be selected because they were too light-skinned. Just depends on what audience is the target. Profit remains the bottom line." It's not very many ads that exclude lightskin black women unless it's a very Afrocentric theme the production company is looking for. Most lightskin black women are used for commercial modeling and that is where most of the money is. High fashion loves darkskin pure looking black women, but those jobs do not make the most money and is not quite as commercial--it doesn't reach the mainstream audience. I know for those who don't work in the industry, it may not matter to them, but for darkskin women who really do have a passion for the arts, it's a real dreamkiller. I was so hurt by what Troy said, darkskin actresses and models are just as entitled as lighter skin women in the commercial industry, and saying they don't deserve representation because he thinks they are not marketable is incredibly hurtful. How would you feel if your passion was entertainment and someone told you you're too 'dark' and not marketable enough to do the job when you know you can. I really hope you come back to this thread Troy and respond | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1752 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Brownbeauty123, you clearly missed my point. You seemed to have applied your own emotional baggage to my comments. Look, at the end of the day I have no clue why Diddy was looking for the types of models he was apparently looking for on that given day. However, I do not think his decision was based upon a hatred of dark skinned Black women. Therefore, in my opinion, dark skinned women were in no need for defense. Brownbeauty123, I bet if Diddy hired Black models, of all shades, to promote this vodka some sista would complain that he is exploiting Black women to promote "bad" products like alcohol. Don't say that is silly either; for it is no more silly than your complaint. How about all of the Black people who complained about AALBC.com, in the early days, because I was selling book as an Barnes and Noble affiliate, or even stranger complained that I was contributing to killing off Black owned independent book stores. The former made business sense and the later is absurd on it's face. People are most critical about things they don't understand or are afraid of. Brownbeauty123, I've been posting here for over 10 years. I'm not sure how long you been reading my posts; but if this is the first one you've taken issue with one, then we were long over due for disappointment or disagreement. Though in this case, I believe you are probably reflecting your own biases onto me and are reacting to that. After working this web site for almost 12 years it is astonishing that someone would feel that I don't "defend Black women". In fact, while some of y'all were questioning my Blackness and accusing me of self loathing I was creating web content for authors like Paule Marshall (http://aalbc.com/authors/paule_marshall.htm) y'all know she published a memoir last month? No I was not paid to promote the book. I promote the author and her work because I believe she is an important writer who deserves more attention -- certainly more that Diddy's cattle call... | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10364 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy: "After working this web site for almost 12 years it is astonishing that someone would feel that I don't ‘defend Black women’." I also find it to be quite laughable that YOU of all people here would be singled out as someone who has somehow failed to honor, defend and promote BW. Hell, one could argue that your doing THAT is largely what AALBC has been all about. Just goes to show you that with many women no mater how much GOOD you do for them you’re only as good as what they perceive to be your current (and maybe even ONLY) fluk up. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10367 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, I would consider it unfortunate that Diddy appear to be actively, willfully discouraging darker sistas from pursuing modeling opportunities. Other than that, he’s free to do what he wants. And the rest of us are free to support it. Or not. And, hey, ain’t nuthin’ much nice about the media sector, especially with respect to those who RUN it. I have friends and family who professionally act, model and perform. The stuff that producers, directors and casting agents will say and do to aspiring and even veteran actors/models can make Diddy and even the dreaded Simon Cowell (of American Idol) look like Florence Nightingale and Mother Teresa by comparison. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1754 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
ABM: "...many women no mater how much GOOD you do for them you’re only as good as what they perceive..." Bingo! Perception is everything. Unfortunately Bruh, this type BS is tearing our communities apart at the core, but THAT is a conversation for another day. I gotta take a break from disappointing Black women and edit an interview I taped with Farai Chideya http://aalbc.com/authors/faraichideya.htm whose first novel Kiss the Sky comes out in May. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10370 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy, Indeed. And, alas, those perceptions almost always err much more towards the negative than they do to the positive. But as I just said in a reply to Carey, cynicism and pessimism reflect back to us what WE already are. Good for Farai! | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 7898 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
I was hoping you would defend black women but you didn't. (Defend WHAT black women? Diddy did hire some to do the ads, didn't he? Nobody yet has told me why Diddy, who has dark skin (and doesn't seem to have a hangup about his looks, from all the preening he does in the press) has this hangup. Oddly enough I remember an interview with his protege, Mary Jane Blige, who thought she was ugly because of her nose and lips. It was sad. Boy, Malcolm X died for nothing. I mean, if even people with darker skin got the hang up, what can you do? Yeah I know black people spend a lot on this issue, and really the issue shouldn't exist, but it does especially when somebody is looking for someone "very light" or "very dark" or Latina looking, or Asian looking, or with classical black features or whatever they bring up. If it causes pain to some people, I think they shouldn't tell folks about it because then it becomes a weapon) | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 7899 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
I mean, upon further thought, I guess this issue impacts women disproportinately. After all, if a brother is twelve shades blacker than coal and PROUD OF IT, he can shave his head, wear his shirt open, grab his thang and let the women of all races that are driven crazy by this SuperMandingo Fantasy cream off. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 718 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Troy, thanks for the heads up on Farai's book. I pre-ordered it...through AALBC, of course. ;-) I've had my head buried in non-fiction for a minute, so I'm definitely looking forward to jumping back into some fiction. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3529 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Troy--agree! Can't wait for this book! | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3530 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
those perceptions almost always err much more towards the negative than they do to the positive. I think whether this is the case or not depends on women's past experiences with Black men. I can rarely contribute to these conversations because I have been fortunate enough to experience largely positive encounters with the Black men in my life. And positive attracts positive--In addition, the more positive role models in your life the more readily you dismiss as an aberration those negative ones you come across. I think the same goes for negative--it attracts its own and causes folks to selectively perceive only other negatives... I think this goes for men and women. There is a lot of bitterness out there. Which is unfortunate because really, life is too short to focus on negative folks. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 1890 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, you done done it again! You dropped it like it's right. I've often said that "wrong" will move away from "right" and right can't stand hanging around wrong. I think we are saying the same thang but you just have this ...huh, this nice intellectual way of saying it *smile*. You are alright with me even though I poked fun at you yesterday *wink*. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 719 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: |
I can rarely contribute to these conversations because I have been fortunate enough to experience largely positive encounters with the Black men in my life. And positive attracts positive--In addition, the more positive role models in your life the more readily you dismiss as an aberration those negative ones you come across. Agreed. My father was not a positive force in my life, but fortunately my uncles (for the most part), male friends, and the men I've been involved with (for the most part) have been positive figures in my life. I didn't deal with any real a*sholes until after I got divorced. So when someone trifling did come along, that behavior was just so...foreign to me, I had little patience for it. They say God looks after fools and babies, and in my case, that's certainly true. My marriage (and the 5-year monogamous dating relationship that preceded it) was a cocoon that I stayed in during my college years, my 20s, and early 30s--it kept me safe from myself because I was ripe to get caught up in all kinds of dysfunctional, if not outright dangerous relationships, for a variety of reasons. So I was spared the drama, but I had to learn late in the game how the game was played. And I can see how a lifetime of dealing with trifling or hurtful people can make someone mistrustful, bitter, and otherwise dysfunctional. I also believe it's an act of will, a choice, to live and partner better than that. It's not an easy choice--and certainly, finding a good partner isn't always easy--and it's human to want to be self-pitying or bitter and to point fingers...for a time. But as a way of life? Like you said, life's to short for that mess. I watched two women I loved tremendously pass away, both regretting that they hadn't lived and loved freely. They chose to take on the burden of other people's sh*t, as far too many black women do, forgetting that we only get this one life, and that nothing good comes of letting other people's bs suck the life out of you. I have no intention of passing on with those kinds of regrets. I'm-a leave martyrdom to the saints. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13679 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I don't think anyone owes anybody an explanation as to why they have an affinity for one shade or another in the spectrum of color that AAs fall under. Or should anyone be expected to defend or attack what the preferences of another are. For whatever their reasons, every individual is entitled to indulge their personal taste. Or is having light skin a ticket to success. No matter what shade she is, a woman with pimply skin and a bulbous nose and bubble eyes and a flat chest and skimpy drab colored hair is not going to be featured in a commercial designed to appeal to men. The advertising world is very superficial. As for relationships, everybody is positive - positive about what they want. It's when expectations aren't met that the negativity enters. Who is to say who is at fault? The person with certain expectations or the person with not enough to offer? Too often a realistic practical person is judged as being negative. IMO | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3604 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Why do "black" women have to be defended any more than any other women who don't conform to the paragon of the market place. It's all about supply and demand. People...... ......for whiners in the world. People have to create their own niches in life." Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I could not have articulated nor stated the truth any better. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1757 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty, bless you for ordering via AALBC.com! And bless you for your 719th post above. Yvettep, I agree with your last post 100%. Ferociouskitty you are indeed fortunate; the majority of single women I talk to, who are in their 40's, never really had a positive experience with a man. This is a shame. The ultra-negative bias is almost understandable given the behavior of some of our Brothers. Worse even is when sistas fail to recognize a good Brother because of this negative history with men. This is why I was a little bent out of shape by the title of this book: I Didn’t Work This Hard Just to Get Married. Again, I understand where idea is coming from. And given the reality of the situation -- books like these are obviously, and unfortunately needed. The stats seem to indicate that a majority of teenagers today are two, three, four generations deep in familial dysfunction -- families where a good father was not present. God only knows of the 30% of intact families how many of these dads are doing more harm than good with their presence. ------------ As I write this, I can hear the rattling of dice as they are shaken in someone's hand, followed by the dice hitting a stoop, then in quick succession the snapping of fingers ending with an expletive on every 3rd or 4th roll. This is what young folks see our men doing - daily... I, on the other hand, am a glutton for punishment -- choosing to work on the most beautiful day of the year. Did you know Jayne Cortez dropped a new book of poetry http://aalbc.com/authors/jayne.htm Peace | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 3605 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Let's cut right through all the bvllsheht and just kick it all real for a sec: Who amongst Troy's polemics here have DONE more to promote or to facilitate the honoring of the genius, talents, splendor and beauty of Black women - in ALL it's glorious colors, facets and manifestations - than has TROY? WHO?" End of subject! No more to be said after that statement other than it amazes me when someone states facts that document themselves (not hyperbole or opinion), thin skin hypertensive Negroes will rant, wail and whine. Their victimization chants and "whoa is me" blather reaches fever pitch. ABM, Troy and Cynique told the truth. Granted it's not pretty nor nice -but it is true. Yes, I understand the Holy Grail of abuse and rejection (the so-called dark complexioned black woman) face issues others may not, but it does not change the way the global audience sees them. The majority of people have in their minds what they feel is attractive and desirable and what is not. There is little you can do to change that other than not let it control how you feel about yourself. Especially when you know such thinking is not in your personal interest. Outside of dismissing their egregious opinions, what else can you do? Not saying I agree with this contentious light skin vs. dark skin bullshit but I do tire of the constant whining and "they hate me" mindset that serves more harm than good. There is nothing stopping these so-called victims (you know who!) to collective resist and aggressively address this poignant bias. It can be done but the so-called individuals of the group have to do it. But carping and whining seems to work better for them. Something I do not understand. Don’t like it? Think it is unfair? Then do something about it! Organize and fight back! Why are you letting other people (who you claim you don’t like anyway) control or determine how you feel about yourself? Like Cat Williams said; “It’s called self esteem!” | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10372 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, Obviously, one’s history informs how one feels and speaks about the opposite sex. I would not, however, agree that only those women who have had especially bad experiences with men complain about brothas. I think bad mouthing Black men has become for MANY sistas a sort of recreational sport that many women enjoy engaging in. It often appears to be a means of catharsis and/or to build camaraderie amongst BW. It had become for many women a very convenient means of deflecting and ignoring their OWN mistakes, foibles and misdeeds. Also, when BM do right and well, with a few exceptions, there is little-or-no special recognition for how well they’re doing. The general sentiment is "You’re only doing what (the fluk) you’re SUPPOSE to do." Now, it’s not so much that this sentiment is untoward. But when you continually rail against the bad and ignore and/or minimize the good, what you especially do is EXAGGERATE the perception of and attention given what’s wrong because such is NOT being FAIRLY counterbalanced by what’s right. Lastly, deriding BM has been for nearly 20 years now, quite a LUCRATIVE field of endeavor for many sistas. See the "I Didn’t Work This Hard Just to Get Married" Troy references to for example. I am happy for you your experiences with Black men have been what you consider to be positive. I hope when my daughters become adults, the will feel the same. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13686 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
I'd say things are pretty even in the who is raggin on whom sweepstakes. When it comes to brothers and sistas, they just have a different way of rejecting each other. Black women castigate. Black men marry white women. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 7906 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Black women castigate. Black men marry white women (Black women marry white men, too. I guess this is a FEMALE thang. We men get to show our masculinity in so many other ways--slanging d***, making money, kicking people's ass, being witty and erudite. I haven't had a conversation with a man about this sort of thing in forty years.. I think if people don't get out of it they will be at the mercy of anybody who wants to use this as a weapon against them) | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10373 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chris, Actually, the rate of increase of BW marrying WM is accelerating at an even greater rate than that of BM marrying WW. And I expect the next U.S. Census to reflect such. But I agree men I know SELDOM sit around complaining about how terrible BW UNLESS such is a rebut of BW declaring how lousy we are. I might agree, though, that some brothas date and marry White (and other non-Black) women as sort of a rebellion against sistas. And I am amazed by that. Because no matter my druthers of BW I can hardly imagine what my life would be like WITHOUT them. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 1897 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
THE LAUGH OF THE DAY! Chris wrote: "I guess this is a FEMALE thang. We men get to show our masculinity in so many other ways--slanging d***, making money, kicking people's ass, being witty and erudite" *lol* ...that N**ga is funny! | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2204 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
"Brownbeauty123, you clearly missed my point. You seemed to have applied your own emotional baggage to my comments. Look, at the end of the day I have no clue why Diddy was looking for the types of models he was apparently looking for on that given day. However, I do not think his decision was based upon a hatred of dark skinned Black women. Therefore, in my opinion, dark skinned women were in no need for defense. Brownbeauty123, I bet if Diddy hired Black models, of all shades, to promote this vodka some sista would complain that he is exploiting Black women to promote "bad" products like alcohol. Don't say that is silly either; for it is no more silly than your complaint. How about all of the Black people who complained about AALBC.com, in the early days, because I was selling book as an Barnes and Noble affiliate, or even stranger complained that I was contributing to killing off Black owned independent book stores. The former made business sense and the later is absurd on it's face. People are most critical about things they don't understand or are afraid of. Brownbeauty123, I've been posting here for over 10 years. I'm not sure how long you been reading my posts; but if this is the first one you've taken issue with one, then we were long over due for disappointment or disagreement. Though in this case, I believe you are probably reflecting your own biases onto me and are reacting to that. After working this web site for almost 12 years it is astonishing that someone would feel that I don't "defend Black women". In fact, while some of y'all were questioning my Blackness and accusing me of self loathing I was creating web content for authors like Paule Marshall (http://aalbc.com/authors/paule_marshall.htm) y'all know she published a memoir last month? No I was not paid to promote the book. I promote the author and her work because I believe she is an important writer who deserves more attention -- certainly more that Diddy's cattle call..." Troy, I was more dissapointed when you implied that lighter complected black women appealed more to a wider range of men than darker skinned women. for you to insinuate that, really hurt me a lot. You're just reinforcing the negative perceptions that we aren't that desirable and don't have as many options when it comes to finding men. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13692 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Black women are so happy to encounter a tolerable brother that when they do meet one, they are civil to him. Who can prove that the majority of black women are doggin out black men? If black men aren't inspiring civility, then they have no one to blame but themselves. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 723 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: |
Who can prove that the majority of black women are doggin out black men? Good question. That's like saying that the majority of blacks live/act like the characters in a typical "urban lit" book because so many books in that genre line bookshelves. Just because a certain demographic gets a lot/a disproportionate amount of media attention/book deals, doesn't mean that demographic is representative of the whole. Generalizing in this way, we could say that most young white women are carbon copies of Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears. There are all sorts of forces at play. When it comes to representations of intimate relationships, conflict sells. Congeniality does not. So whose to say what's really going on between most people? As Yvette pointed out, our perceptions are qualified by our personal experiences, and according to the company we keep, which, for any given individual, is far from representative enough to make sweeping generalizations. Back when the teen pregnancy rate was on the decline, I remember have a discussion with a women who took issue with me saying that more and more teenaged girls were getting pregnant than in previous times. Factually/statistically, I was wrong. When she pointed this out, I said, "Well, I stand corrected then. But too many teenaged girls are getting pregnant these days..." A subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1760 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique I was talking to a sister this morning. She is a good looking 55 year old who knows a lot of 30 somethings who have never been married. She said the biggest problem they have is that they are actually very hard on brothers; complaining that "they make less than they do", "they don't dress well enough", "they are too short", "too heavy", "uneducated", etc, etc. They fail to see the beauty of the person - "tolerable" is in the eye of the beholder... What is the stat now, half of women 40 years old or more have never been married? Clearly Brothers must be very intolerable? ______________ Brownbeauty123, look at what you attributed to me; "reinforcing the negative perceptions", "that we aren't that desirable and don't have as many options when it comes to finding men" Both statements are conclusions that could not have been reasonably drawn from what I wrote. The real disagreement we have is that you believe Black women were harmed by Diddy actions, and that Diddy needed to be taken to task (perhaps taken out back and shot, LOL). We disagreed. In my book that is cool. I only take issue when you take out disagreement then use it as fodder to fuel a distorted perception of me, for example; someone who believes dark skinned women's marrying options are limited -- THAT is just crazy. That attitude is what would prevent a dark skinned woman from being married NOT her complexion. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 724 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: |
She said the biggest problem they have is that they are actually very hard on brothers; complaining that "they make less than they do", "they don't dress well enough", "they are too short", "too heavy", "uneducated", etc, etc. What hasn't been said in this discussion is that some black women find black women who have this disposition intolerable, lol! So much for the sisterhood... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13693 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Tolerable" and "civility" were the operative words in my post. A woman can endure a man's company and be pleasant to him within the bonds of a platonic relationship. This is an example of a black woman not putting a black man down. And it's not that uncommon. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2207 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"I think whether this is the case or not depends on women's past experiences with Black men. I can rarely contribute to these conversations because I have been fortunate enough to experience largely positive encounters with the Black men in my life. And positive attracts positive--In addition, the more positive role models in your life the more readily you dismiss as an aberration those negative ones you come across." so, what is your advice/solution to those who did not attract these people but were born into a family with these kind of negative people? Not everyone is your age, or at that point in their life where they can state what you just did. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2208 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"End of subject! No more to be said after that statement other than it amazes me when someone states facts that document themselves (not hyperbole or opinion), thin skin hypertensive Negroes will rant, wail and whine. Their victimization chants and "whoa is me" blather reaches fever pitch. ABM, Troy and Cynique told the truth. Granted it's not pretty nor nice -but it is true. Yes, I understand the Holy Grail of abuse and rejection (the so-called dark complexioned black woman) face issues others may not, but it does not change the way the global audience sees them. The majority of people have in their minds what they feel is attractive and desirable and what is not. There is little you can do to change that other than not let it control how you feel about yourself. Especially when you know such thinking is not in your personal interest. Outside of dismissing their egregious opinions, what else can you do? Not saying I agree with this contentious light skin vs. dark skin bullshit but I do tire of the constant whining and "they hate me" mindset that serves more harm than good. There is nothing stopping these so-called victims (you know who!) to collective resist and aggressively address this poignant bias. It can be done but the so-called individuals of the group have to do it. But carping and whining seems to work better for them. Something I do not understand. Don’t like it? Think it is unfair? Then do something about it! Organize and fight back! Why are you letting other people (who you claim you don’t like anyway) control or determine how you feel about yourself? Like Cat Williams said; “It’s called self esteem!”" How can you even get to that point if you are born into an environment that does not nurture or encourage one to have good self esteem? Maybe you were lucky and were born with a good self image of yourself, or came from a family that helped you acheive that...but what about people who did not? Are you going to continue to point your finger at them and judge them for not feeling the way you think they should and dealing | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2209 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"Agreed. My father was not a positive force in my life, but fortunately my uncles (for the most part), male friends, and the men I've been involved with (for the most part) have been positive figures in my life. I didn't deal with any real a*sholes until after I got divorced. So when someone trifling did come along, that behavior was just so...foreign to me, I had little patience for it. They say God looks after fools and babies, and in my case, that's certainly true. My marriage (and the 5-year monogamous dating relationship that preceded it) was a cocoon that I stayed in during my college years, my 20s, and early 30s--it kept me safe from myself because I was ripe to get caught up in all kinds of dysfunctional, if not outright dangerous relationships, for a variety of reasons. So I was spared the drama, but I had to learn late in the game how the game was played. And I can see how a lifetime of dealing with trifling or hurtful people can make someone mistrustful, bitter, and otherwise dysfunctional. I also believe it's an act of will, a choice, to live and partner better than that. It's not an easy choice--and certainly, finding a good partner isn't always easy--and it's human to want to be self-pitying or bitter and to point fingers...for a time. But as a way of life? Like you said, life's to short for that mess. I watched two women I loved tremendously pass away, both regretting that they hadn't lived and loved freely. They chose to take on the burden of other people's sh*t, as far too many black women do, forgetting that we only get this one life, and that nothing good comes of letting other people's bs suck the life out of you. I have no intention of passing on with those kinds of regrets. I'm-a leave martyrdom to the saints." but how old are you? not all younger women are at a place in their life where they can say what you just did. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 730 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: |
but how old are you? not all younger women are at a place in their life where they can say what you just did. I think you are mistaken in continuing to make this a function of age. Yes, I learned a lot through maturity, but I have friends who came to this same kind of understanding much earlier than I did (I suspect this is the case with Yvette). There are some wise young ones and some old fools. As far as young women not being able to say what I said, I couldn't even have said what I said just 10 years ago. Nothing magically happens just because you age. Without purposeful change, all of us would be doing the same thing in our 40s and 50s that we did in our 20s and 30s. As far as what that change looks like, that depends on the person and her circumstances. I didn't write that I'd never been hurt or had bad experiences. In fact, I did note that my father was not a positive force in my life. But in spite of that, I knew I had to make a choice. I could let hate, bitterness, and pity consume me--or I could figure out a way to move beyond the hurts and disappointments and save my own life. No one else was put on this planet to take care of me, or like me, or find me attractive or whatever--but me. No one owes me anything. I owe it to myself to be good to myself and accept nothing less from those around me. No one is too young to learn from their mistakes and from the patterns of the choices they make. We can't control what others do or how they think, but we can control ourselves and the access we give to others--and the degree to which we allow them to control us (by needing them, needing their approval, needing others to feel sorry for us or to validate our pain, or needing to get revenge when we've been wronged). A friend of mine runs a website for single parents, and in talking about healing and moving on from the disappointment of your child's other parent not being what you want him or her to be, she uses the phrase, "We need to shed our victim and claim our power." "Claiming our power" might be something mystical or spiritual for some, it might mean choosing a whole crop of new friends and moving away from toxic family members; it might mean a period of celibacy; it might mean therapy; it might mean meds for a time. In general, though, it means pulling on your big girl panties and plotting your own healthy course regardless what others think or do. For me, while my situation didn't bear fruit until later in my life, I had a loving uncle who planted the seeds when I was a teen. I was in jr. high and later high school, fed up with my deadbeat dad. I was also tired of my mother and my dad's family acting like his behavior was okay. That hurt. Didn't anybody care that he lied to me, constantly? That he didn't take care of me, financially or otherwise? His neglect hurt, a lot, but I felt like others who were supposed to care about me were saying that I deserved to be treated this way--and that compounded the hurt. So I went to my uncle, my dad's younger brother, who was only 7 years older than me. For years, I whined and complained and poured my heart out to him. I know that in his own gentle way he spoke to my dad--but that wasn't enough for me. I wanted him to cuss my dad out, to defend me, to make him do better. I wanted my grandparents and my mother to do the same. I felt like they were letting him get away with doing wrong by me. My uncle knew then what I know now: You really can't make grown people do much of anything, especially not in matters of the heart. So while I wanted my uncle to berate my dad, to agree with me that he was full of sh*t and a terrible person--he did me one better. My uncle cared for me. He encouraged me towards my own promise and potential. I know now that it's not that he didn't care about what my dad was doing to me; he just cared more about what I did with my own life. He knew that that's what mattered most. So, I had to live and thrive despite my dad. That had to become my focus, not "making him do right" or wanting others to be mad at him. Of course I didn't get this when my uncle was reaching out to me, but he did plant that seed. Simple truth: No matter what anyone else does, YOU get this one life. "Not all younger women are at a place in their life where they can say what you just did." Well, how do you think they will get to that place? I can tell you how they will not... | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3535 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
so, what is your advice/solution to those who did not attract these people but were born into a family with these kind of negative people? Not everyone is your age, or at that point in their life where they can state what you just did. True, BB123. That is why I characterize my experiences as the result, largely, of "good fortune." I believe that we often do ourselves a disservice with the idea that you "can't choose your family" or that "blood is thicker than water" and other similar notions. Sometimes we have to make a choice--once we reach adulthood, especially--that certain people will no longer be allowed into our circle to poison us with their own bitterness. This includes family members. That sounds incredibly harsh. But too many people--especially Black women--seem to take on this martyr role and shoulder all the drama of their family members because they think they have no choice. We do have a choice. But it is often a difficult one. The door can remain open. Their lives and attitudes and behavior may change. But in the meantime we have to decide how badly we want to save ourselves. Age does help this process, as the older you get the less you fear about folks labeling you as this or that. I have generally become a lot more secure in my skin and would not want to be in my 20s or even early 30s again for all the money in the world. But it is not just age/time. It is making the decision that you want to at least try to change your direction and the people you surround yourself with. The only other option is accepting that negativity will always be a part of your existence. Or hoping that things will magically change, like in some fairy tale. Neither option is acceptable for me. One more thing will note is that, although I cannot really speak first hand about this as far as relationships, I can attest to having to go through this process multiple times in my life in the academic/professional sphere. It is very, very hard. It has been a lot easier to "enjoy" the company of others who are as miserable academically/professionally as I have been at whatever point. I have lost family and friends by deciding that some people were too much of a drain on my forward progress. But I have also gained other family and friends. And re-gained ones that I had had to leave behind (and who had left me behind because of my own negativity). | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3536 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
x-posted w/FK. Co-sign 100% w/her post. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 731 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Back atcha, Yvette. When I chose to have a period of "silence" with my mother, some blacks folks acted like I'd slapped Jesus. But if someone in your life is the equivalent of gangrene to your body, you have to cut them off to save yourself. Fortunately, as you noted (and as was the case with my mom), in terms of relationships, this "cutting" doesn't have to be permanent. Sometimes, you just to re-established cherished but toxic relationships on terms that everyone can live with. I know a family that has been going through the same sick dramas for 50 years, literally. The youngest daughter has only recently been able to pull back from her family and get well emotionally. She's almost 49 years old. And of course the family's reaction: "She's acting funny." "How could she do that to her mother, after all she's done for her?" Blah, blah, blah... Sometimes respect and love have to be shown at a distance. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 732 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
...just NEED to RE-ESTABLISH... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13698 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
How old are you "Brown Beauty"? Seems like you vacillate between being naive and sophisticated. typical troll. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2210 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Why do I have to be a troll? Just becuase you dont like what I have to say. Geesh. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13699 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
I don't care what you say or what whomever disguises themself as you says. Tim.  | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 1903 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ferociouskitty wrote: ...."In general, though, it means pulling on your big girl panties and plotting your own healthy course regardless what others think or do. I know a family that has been going through the same sick dramas for 50 years, literally. The youngest daughter has only recently been able to pull back from her family and get well emotionally. She's almost 49 years old. And of course the family's reaction: "She's acting funny." "How could she do that to her mother, after all she's done for her?" Blah, blah, blah...When I chose to have a period of "silence" with my mother, some blacks folks acted like I'd slapped Jesus. But if someone in your life is the equivalent of gangrene to your body, you have to cut them off to save yourself. Fortunately, as you noted (and as was the case with my mom), in terms of relationships, this "cutting" doesn't have to be permanent. Sometimes, you just to re-established cherished but toxic relationships on terms that everyone can live with. I know a family that has been going through the same sick dramas for 50 years, literally. The youngest daughter has only recently been able to pull back from her family and get well emotionally. She's almost 49 years old. And of course the family's reaction: "She's acting funny." "How could she do that to her mother, after all she's done for her?" Blah, blah, blah... Sometimes respect and love have to be shown at a distance. Yvettep Wrote: .I believe that we often do ourselves a disservice with the idea that you "can't choose your family" or that "blood is thicker than water" and other similar notions. Sometimes we have to make a choice--once we reach adulthood, especially--that certain people will no longer be allowed into our circle to poison us with their own bitterness. This includes family members. That sounds incredibly harsh. But too many people--especially Black women--seem to take on this martyr role and shoulder all the drama of their family members because they think they have no choice. We do have a choice. But it is often a difficult one. The door can remain open. Their lives and attitudes and behavior may change. But in the meantime we have to decide how badly we want to save ourselves. I'd like to thank you 2 for sharing this. I have a friend that I called and shared this with. She is much like Kitty. She was rasied by her grandmother but her mother is still on the scene. Her grandmother is gone and her mother is ...well, a mess. In fact her whole family is stuck in negativity. She wants to be there for her family but they have totally drained her. In her belief that family is thicker than water, they have used her in various ways. Just as Kitty noted, she gets all the "why are you turning your back on your mother". They even have tried to hit her with scripture in an attempt to find a way to keep her in their mess. Even though she wasn't raised by her mother (mother gave her to grandmother (mother was 16)) she has always wanted the love of her mother and therefore allowed herself to be used by her. The whole relationship has been a learned behavior for the both of them. One time my friend became ill (bedridden with heart complications))and she had to move in with her mother, whom she had never lived with. All her income was given to her mother and she had to tolerate an envoironment that was well below her standard. Her mother grew accustom to the added income and her new found ability to tell her "daughter" what to do. The relationship was much like that of cinderella. Her mother is a foster care provider for capital gain. I can assume some may know what I mean by that. Yes, children under her care that she can talk to any way she wants. And, for the most part, treat them any way she desires. Anyway, my friend has been moving "away" from her mother over the last 3 years and it has not come without the struggles mentioned by Yvettep and furosciouskitty. Yes, she constantly hears "why are you turning your back on your mother" and "you need your family". So, thank you Kitty and Yvettep, it was nice that she could hear the words of black women that have gone through similar struggles. This stood out for her: "But too many people--especially Black women--seem to take on this martyr role and shoulder all the drama of their family members because they think they have no choice. We do have a choice. But it is often a difficult one" She wanted to be loved by her family yet she has realized the payoff was a one way street. btw, she is also 50yrs old. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13700 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvette and FK, this board is honored to have two black women of your calibre and with your credentials favor us with your insight and intelligence. You go, Girls!  | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3537 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Carey and Cynique, y'all are making me blush! LOL Carey, all the best to your friend. It is never too late to begin making the kind of changes it sounds like she needs to make. FK, you killed me with the "big girl panties" line! LOLOL But, yes, so true. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 734 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, Cynique. I'll take this opportunity to tell you that your unflappable nature, wit, wisdom, and inability to suffer fools have inspired me as well. I think I may have told you this before, but "meeting" you here on this board years ago totally upset the applecart of my presumptions about black women who are my elders. And that's a really good thing. ;-) Carey-Carey, I'm glad you feel our words can encourage someone else. Your friend is blessed to have you supporting and encouraging her. Yvette, I wish I could take credit for the big girl panties line. Can't remember where I first heard it, but it stuck with me. ;-) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13703 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Those kind words have special meaning to me, Ferociouskitty, because you are the one who wrote them.  | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1768 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
" totally upset the applecart of my presumptions about black women who are my elders. And that's a really good thing. ;-)" Ferociouskitty, regarding Cynique -- True Dat! I've often wondered if this perception would have been the same if I met Cynique in person or would I have let me biases get in the way. Plus Ferociouskitty and Yvettep are indeed a voice a reason, sanity, civility that really is needed to balance some of the others. But you need the others too! Brownbeauty123, I hope you are not this Tim character. Also, it would be easier if you did not quote someone else ENTIRE post and when you do quote someone use italics or something distinguish it from what you write. That will make it a lot easier for us readers. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13705 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Troy writes that FK and Yvette are: "indeed a voice a reason, sanity, civility that really is needed to balance some of the others. But you need the others too!" Cynique responds: Nice to know I'm needed, Troy.  | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1769 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, seriously, you KNOW you my girl and respected elder all in one! | ||
| Brownbeauty123 AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 2211 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
Troy, I have no idea what you all are talking about and what the deal is with this Tim character. I've been a member here for quite some time now, never had anyone else use my user account. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13707 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Thanks again, Troy, for making this forum all-inclusive. Your vision is what contributes to your success. |
