| Author | Message | ||
     Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3499 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
 An 11-year-old Massachusetts boy, Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover, hung himself Monday after enduring bullying at school, including daily taunts of being gay, despite his mother's weekly pleas to the school to address the problem. This is at least the fourth suicide of a middle-school aged child linked to bullying this year. Carl, a junior at New Leadership Charter School in Springfield who did not identify as gay, would have turned 12 on April 17, the same day hundreds of thousands of students will participate in the 13th annual National Day of Silence. by taking some form of a vow of silence to bring attention to anti-LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) bullying and harassment at school. The other three known cases of suicide among middle-school students took place in Chatham, Evanston and Chicago, Ill., in the month of February. "Our hearts go out to Carl's mother, Sirdeaner L. Walker, and other members of Carl's family, as well as to the community suffering from this loss," GLSEN Executive Director Eliza Byard said. "As we mourn yet another tragedy involving bullying at school, we must heed Ms. Walker�s urgent call for real, systemic, effective responses to the endemic problem of bullying and harassment. Especially in this time of societal crisis, adults in schools must be alert to the heightened pressure children face, and take action to create safe learning environments for the students in their care. In order to do that effectively, as this case so tragically illustrates, schools must deal head-on with anti-gay language and behavior"... Full story: http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/news/record/2400.html | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13642 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
This is tragic! Children can be so cruel. No wonder they need parents to try and civilize and control them. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 710 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Heartbreaking, indeed. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3505 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/13th-annual-national-day-silence-friday Tomorrow would have been this young man's 12th birthday. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 715 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Yeah, I'm blogging about that tomorrow, along with a notice from the Af-Am chapter of PFLAG. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10321 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Is it unfair of me to ask WHY the child's mother continued to send that boy to that school when it was clear after her making WEEKLY pleas the school simply would not or could not stop the bullying? And it probably isn't even worth asking the most obvious of questions: Where (the HELL) were the kid's FATHER? | ||
| Kandi_gyal Newbie Poster Username: Kandi_gyal Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2008 Rating: N/A |
VERY good point, ABM. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3508 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Is it unfair of me to ask WHY the child's mother continued to send that boy to that school The mother, a breast cancer survivor, had been very involved with the school trying to get the bullying issue addressed. My impression was that this was a charter school. Most likely she saw it as a better alternative than other choices. Where (the HELL) were the kid's FATHER? According to his obituary, the young man's parents are Sirdeaner Walker of Springfield and Benjamin Carl Hoover Jr. of Maryland. There is a virtual guestbook for anyone interested in sharing with the family thoughts, prayers, and encouragement: http://obits.masslive.com/Masslive/DeathNotices.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=1260 69049 | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3509 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
FK, will your post be over at B****? I'll be sure to check it out and link to it. | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4969 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
What doubles this tragedy... ...is that if this boy grew to be 22 years old and killed himself as an adult (as most homosexual suicides do in adulthood) ....few people would give a shit or be making a fuss. Some of the same people running around with their heads cut off---are the sames ones who allow their own kids to call people "fag" "queer" and "lesbo", etc. etc. I was wounded when I saw this boy's photo and story over at the DAILY VOICE. He looks like my youngest child. I wish to God that his mother had known what to do. But homophobia is such a "mass social" folkway...that even the child's mother was probably "distraught/confused" as to how to interpret his "voice/mannerisms/fragility" without indicating her own prejudice&fears to the child in the face of such an IVY New England liberal/white community. Children are cruel because they're like their parents. This boy checked out early... But a few years ago, I saw one of my friends' sons jump off a FREEWAY OVER-PASS because people were taunting him for being a "fag." He was Black, confused and 19. Nobody but his MOM and 3 other people (including myself) came to his funeral. People made jokes and said they were glad "the fag" put himself out of his misery. Whenever I'm around those same men today ---they STILL make hateful gay jokes. ABM, I remember you, in particular, accusing me of being a "lesbian" because I sided so much with gays on social issues ---but if you were a female, ABM---you would care about these people, too. WHY? Because society would allow you to have more "Emotional Range" and you'd have less "foibles" to protect. When my youngest boy was 5 & 6, I had the "feeling" that he was going to be gay, because unlike his brother, he was always up under me and very feminine acting with huge, sweetly blinking eyes. BUT NOW...he's totally rougher than the other one. Total macho kid. I don't know what changed him, because it got "macho" after he started 1st grade and he never told me anyone was teasing or harrassing him at school. Maybe they were and I didn't know it? I just think we should love our children and ALL children no matter what the differences are. Kids don't ask to come here. GAY SUICIDE is rampant. . . | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3511 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
What doubles this tragedy... ...is that if this boy grew to be 22 years old and killed himself as an adult (as most homosexual suicides do in adulthood) ....few people would give a shit or be making a fuss. Deserves to be highlighted. Yes, thanks for making this point, Kola. | ||
| Ferociouskitty Veteran Poster Username: Ferociouskitty Post Number: 717 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
Yvette: Yes, over at B*tch. I'll post a link when it's up. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13646 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
It is a good point but bullying is wide spread among youngsters, and it doesn't aways have to do with homosexuality. Kids can be bullied for being too smart or too dumb, too frail or too fat, too light-skinned or too dark-skinned - too this or too that! Unfortunately, all the good parenting in the world cannot guarantee that a child will be lucky enough to be accepted by the "in" crowd. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3513 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, your point is valid. It appears that a big part of this young man's experience at school had to do with these very things. He was made fun of for wearing the clothes he wore, for doing well in school, for attending church with his mother. In the minds of some of the kids, apparently, all this translated to "gay." At his age we cannot say what his sexuality was or would have been. A term I have heard used is "gender-conforming." Gay or not, clearly he was perceived as being non-gender-conforming (and likely non-race conforming as well). | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3514 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Great, FK. Thanks. Oh, and great job over there, BTW! | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4971 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette clearly he was perceived as being non-gender-conforming (and likely non-race conforming as well). Kola: Exactly. I myself acknowledged in a recent post that it wasn't fair of me to categorize Black men w/white babies as "MASCOTS" and I wrote that they're probably not "MASCOTS"---although that's what comes to my mind when I see them. (just as the mother of this child had conflicting feelings about her son's "effiminate" hand gestures/"soft" voice and whether or not tell him to TONE IT DOWN---which to the child--is rejection and her siding with the tormentors.) I have also been in a battle of late as I notice people insist upon "masculinizing" me for being so unyielding and INTIMIDATING in my commentary on women's issues If you critize the men...and too many people start to listen to your argument .....then you're actually a DYKE or a TRANNY and no one should listen to you. But I'm like Grace Jones...I will literally rip off my skirt, put my pussy in their faces,IN PUBLIC, and go right on preaching. There's NOTHING like the truth. lol! What I hate is that most "Afrocentric" supporters seem to be the most Homophobic and fail to realize that they are the product of a JUDEO- CHRISTIAN society; not a Nilotic one. Their "homophobia" is Christian-based, not Africoid, as they claim. It is very difficult for me, being from a Nilotic culture (Eunnuchs, goddess religion, uni-sex bathing, phallic-tying) to fear homo-erotic images. Many people from INDIA will tell you the same thing, because of their use of EUNNUCHS and Goddess Religion---they don't understand the western fear of homosexuals. Also, in Muslim society (Egypt/Omdurman, Sudan)...we have the HYMEN LAWS (the hymen of all Islamic females being the most protected thing in our society)...which in turn means that we have EXTREMELY HIGH RATES of... ...."anal sex", because the whole Male Society has to protect the HYMEN. ANd let me tell you...when men have too much "anal sex" via rape/prostitutes/slaves ...they also begin to fool around with each other's anuses. And that behavior is RAMPANT EPIDEMIC over in Sudan and the Arab world, Yvette. But then I have been to Nigeria, South Africa and Arab/Muslim world and they are even more homophobic than western culture. People really are PARANOID about sexuality lately--- And if they don't like you--they'll assign "homosexuality" to you as a buffer. I had a female friend write to me: I don't know any men with as much "testicular fortitude" as you have Kola. I was crushed, but of course, I didn't tell her I was offended. It's like WOMEN can't be strong and still be respected as women. I try to always remember the defining moment in Sojourner Truth's battle....when she had to bear her breasts IN PUBLIC because the white men accused her of being a man. I am strong, yes...I am a CRUSADER, yes. But I still want men to fukckk my brains out and chase me around the bed. I still like to feel soft and girlish. So you're quite right. Anyone who steps too far out of their "role" is considered non-conforming and is branded something that EXCLUDES them from discourse. I am guilty of doing it myself...to men like O.J. Simpson and Clarence Thomas when I call them "Uncle Toms." I just viciously attacked Ishmael Reed the other day. - | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10326 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, Perhaps I am Monday Morning Quarterbacking here. But NO school is worth a dayam that your kids has got to be TORTURED at every day. And the article not even MENTIONING the boy's father's name, alas, pretty says I need to know about that situation. Kola, I didn't call you a lesbo because you sided with other queers. I called you lesbo because you OFTEN appeared at times to utterly HATE MEN. But then, I guess having something in common with other women is one thing. Licking their cQQchie is something WAAAAY different. Huh? | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4975 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I didn't call you a lesbo because you sided with other queers. LOL!!!!!!!!!!  I am NOT GAY, ABM! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! ABM, I LOVE BLACK MEN. I will fight my entire life for them to be BORN and to EXIST. YOU are my King, brotherman. Regardless how we fight and disagree. Your wisdom and use of language skills always thrills me. AND...I happen to know that you LOVE Black women and are much more "deep" that people here realize. You claim that I can't talk about "trifling brothers" without talking about YOU, but that simply isn't true. You're one of my favorite people, because you're the SPITTING IMAGE of my AA dad. And my dad is the BEST. Wish I could clone him, we'd all (the girls) be alright. - | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3516 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, I completely understand your points. I also think it is easy to say in hindsight--after a tragedy like this--what a parent should have done. I guess right now I am more interested in figuring out ways to support the family in their intense grief, as well as highlighting this problem so that it does not happen again, rather than pointing fingers at a mother who is likely torturing herself right now. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10328 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, And that's totally understandable. But there are lessons to be learned here. And maybe such lessons should include parents NOT continuing to allow your child to be subjected to such hatred. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10329 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, That "other" in "other queers" was a mistake. And I got over the question of your sexuality a lot EARLIER than I originally let on to you. For the longest time, I was mostly just having fun. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! | ||
| Schakspir AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 1252 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
"I try to always remember the defining moment in Sojourner Truth's battle....when she had to bear her breasts IN PUBLIC because the white men accused her of being a man." Too bad you are not black, or even a woman. | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4979 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
You're right Schakspir, you BUSTED me, bro. I'm really a White Guy who posts all this stuff under the name Kola Boof.  Kola Internet Publicity Command Center Central Sort of like the recent internet imposter pretending to be Maya Angelou. The spirit of Kola dictates to me via Blue Tooth. I tell ya man she's always in my head. Whispering and ordering stuff. Making me play with my little White WEE-WEE. I hear her right now---  OH SHIT! Do you hear her? She's got that demonic EXCORCIST voice going and she's.... She's saying: "...fukkketh P. Lewis uppeth him ass...and boil him stomach for cat's birthday meal." Her "Cat" is a fukk'n Cashmere Cougar, man! Imported! He'll rip your face off if Kola starts farting. And she ALWAYS does that when people she hates come to the door. By the way, bro. You never come around aalbc.com until Kola comes around. Everybody notices that. What's the obsession with her? I guess Abm's got it one way and you've got it another way. Shame you guys haven't tracked her down, 'cause I happen to know she LOVES being with two guys at the same time. That way she has somebody to eat her cooking.  | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4980 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
May the spirit of Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover forgive me, but I'm sure Carl Joseph would understand my "exasperation" with Shakspir better than anyone. And WHY Shakspir have you offered NO CONDOLENCES for the loss of this child or a kind sentiment? I notice you and ABM both seem to be focusing on the wrong stuff, too much. But at least ABM cares. Every single thing you post is CRASS, EVIL and BITTER, P. Lewis. Have a heart sometimes. . | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3521 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
http://bitchmagazine.org/post/in-memoriam | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10333 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Kola: "I notice you and ABM both seem to be focusing on the wrong stuff, too much." Yeah. Too often we men tend to want to (*GASP!*) focus on the actual sources of the PROBLEM and on viable SOLUTIONS. You chicks mostly just want to complain, hug and cry alot... | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3523 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
If you take a look at the links posted you will find many ideas about various sources of the problem and attempts at talking about solutions. Your focus seems to be perennially focused on blaming Black women and absent fathers, and that is certainly your right. It is easy to, in hindsight, point fingers at a parent and say what he or she should have done. I, myself, tend not to do that in a time such as this--mere days after a family has buried their little boy--because I have been there in that moment where I have made a mistake as a parent that thankfully did not end poorly. If that is not the case with you, then I congratulate you on your superior parenting skills. Your belittling of our conversation here as chicks complaining, hugging, and crying is unfortunate. | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4981 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, there is some truth in what you just said. But we do have to mourn, King. Yvette, thanks for posting "FKs" wonderful write up. After seeing that beautiful, winsome, hopeful child's photo, I started feeling horrible all over again. I am a firm believer that "sensitivity" is the highest form of intelligence. And that's what he had at 11 years old. Enormous sensitivity in his eyes. What a glorious, precious gift of a child. Prayers to his mom and dad. . | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3525 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
You're welcome, Kola. | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4982 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette: Your focus seems to be perennially focused on blaming Black women and absent fathers, and that is certainly your right. No, that's not his right. That's his way of sitting on his sausage. HE (the guys) should be doing something--like going down to that school and thunderously shouting one of his Lion-Daddy speeches into the ears of those selfish ignorant "inglorious" demon seeds until they realize that disrespecting someone's identity or picking on someone who is perceived as weaker isn't COOL. ABM, you STOP attacking the mother and be kind enough to MOURN with her. Being that the child was "gay" in a Black Home that comes from a Black Christian Community---she was probably not entirely well equipped to even know how to begin to tackle this situation. EXAMPLE: A mom might "accidentally" say (and think) ---well honey, if you didn't switch when you walk and use such feminine mannerisms and such, the other kids wouldn't bother you. And at the same time--she was probably complaining to the school about the harrassment. But then I bet the dad was saying: "let him go through it, this will make him a man. This will toughen him up." Many people don't believe in "running" and they may not have understood the depth of their child's sensitivity. Honestly, we've all--as children--been picked on. I was teased for being "too tall" and LATER for having "big jugs." We all get a taste of it. But we don't expect a kid to committ suicide over it. I agree with your view a lot, ABM. But you're not showing any EMPATHY for the parents; the child's spirit or for the plight, ABM, of gay kids and teens. You're a big man, ABM. You aren't so insecure about your manhood that you can't for a moment sympathize with people who are different--even if you don't like it.. Children do know by age 6 whether they are GAY or not. They also know to hide and live in fear of being discovered. When I look at Carl Joseph--I see my own son. I also see a very handsome, sensitive "GOOD" person who was ill equipped at defending himself...and his mom probably didn't know HOW to adequately defend and "understand" him all in one shot herself. It's HARD adjusting to having a gay kid, even for moms. Not every mother is an Yvette. . | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10334 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, Chicks is for me a term of endearment to women. Hell, I refer to my own wife, daughters and mothers as chicks. But if you can't appreciate my use of the word in refer to women, I'll understand. I WON'T stop using it. But I'll understand. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10335 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, I'm not really blaming the mother. I honestly do not know what happen. But, again, I PERSONALLY would not continue to take my kid to a school where he-she was being mistreated as badly as what appears to have occurred here. If my drawing a distinction between how I would have handled the situation and how apparently that child's parents handled it makes me out in your eyes to be a bad guy, then I will live with that. And waiting until the child is long sense dead and buried does NOT lend anymore credence to when and how similar such matters should be addressed than it does to consider it right now. In fact, it is BETTER to consider what might have gone wrong - NOW rather than later - because the truth of the matter is MOST foks will very soon forget about this child, forget about why he killed himself and will hardly give a dayam about preventing the same occurring with other kids. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10337 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, Of course we must mourn. It's a very healthy, natural and necessary part of the human experience. But when you post something on Thumper's Corner (or any message board), you should be prepared for the possibility of others coming at the subject from vantage point that are DIFFERENT from that of your own. You women want to mourn. But I'm thinking "DAYAM! How the hell can we prevent something like THIS from happening again?". And to do that, I have to HONESTLY look at the particulars surrounding what occurred, which include the actions of the child's parents, the school, social services and/or any other foks who were or should have been involved. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10338 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I am empathetic to the plight of homosexuals. And I certainly support reasonable measures to preclude their being harrassed, bullied and assaulted. But let’s not confuse the issues here. Because you’re making this a gay rights issue when I thought I read the child claimed to NOT be gay. Moreover, we don’t really know the details about the boys alleged bullying. Really, was it of a quality and depth that exceed that which almost ALL children at some point experience? Or are we talking about an especially troubled child her, whereby his being teased and he’s gay are mostly at best secondary to why he took his own life? We do NOT yet know which of the above are correct. And lets be REAL here: Kids all over the nation (and world) are relentless teased for myriad reasons and in the most insufferable ways. Try being a FAT kids in a nation that lustfully celebrates being svelte and thin. Still, +99 % of those who are mistreated AVOID KILLING themselves. So while I would support more potent measures that address bullying and hazing, we have GOT to admit this kid had some serious problems that were unique to HIM. Because, really, how many ELEVEN year old Black American boys even know HOW to kill themselves, much less managed to become sufficiently competent of such as to successfully HANG themselves? | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4985 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Those are very good points, ABM,and I do agree with you. But you've got me and Yvette wrong. We just want you to be careful how you talk about the Mother---but then again---I guess we're not being fair, because apparently males DO grieve differently and males immediately want to REACT-TRACK-SOLVE...mourn later. And I think that's your way of protecting us (and the herd so to speak) and we shouldn't block you from it. Honestly, I think we're all on the same page. Rooster . | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13652 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I agree, Yvette, the use of the term "chicks" is disarming and condescending within the confines of a serious discussion. But we just have to overlook the chauvinism of certain "cats".  | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 10340 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, Again. I am not condemning the mother. If anything, I'd be more inclined to confront the kids FATHER - who is quite conspicuously ABSENT from the discussion of the issue - than I would the kid's poor mother. And I'm not indifferent of the kid. I shudder to think what must be going through the mind and heart of an ELEVEN year old that he would take his own life. But, yes, we men are more inclined to initially think of what occurred as being some sore of big PROBLEM that must somehow be solved. Glad we understand each other. |
