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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio

Post Number: 1019
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the lengh...it is interesting, though and an intellectual respite, I think at least, from recent discussions, such as superhead, for example. Does such topics have to do with culture, race and economy...Maybe? Maybe not? If we are talkin about hip hop as cultural producton and an economic endeavor, which has, some have argued, become alternative employment for our black youth instead of a college education...And, in the case of "superhead," has created employment that both pays well, such as using folks personal business ot make money, and reproducing black male chavinism and patriarchy! I think this would satisfy the board's culture, race, and economy section.

Anyways...love it or leave it own!

From: repconinfo@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repconinfo@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of S. E. Anderson

This is an excellent critique/expose of the Willie Lynch "talk." I have made it
clear to folks anytime they raise this letter/talk that it's a fabrication. Brotha
Prof. Manu Ampim has joined several other Black scholars and activists who have
exposed the myths of the Wilie Lyncht 1712 talk by advancing a thoroly detailed
refutation of its authenticity.

I first saw this "document" in a poor xerox form from a "Liberation Library" copy
dated (I think) 1970. I might still have the paper buried in a thousand other old
papers I have. When I first saw it, it also struck me as a contemporary piece and
inaccurate historically.

We must struggle to exorcise this "urban legend" approach to our history and I'm
glad to see this important contribution by our Brotha Prof. Manu Ampim being
circulated.

In Struggle,

Sam Anderson
author: The Black Holocaust for Beginners (writers & readers)

=============================DEATH OF THE WILLIE LYNCH SPEECH
by Prof. Manu Ampim


Since 1995 there has been much attention given to a speech claimed to be delivered
by a "William Lynch" in 1712. This speech has been promoted widely throughout
African American and Black British circles. It is re-printed on numerous websites,
discussed in chat rooms, forwarded as a "did you know" email to friends and family
members, assigned as required readings in college and high school courses, promoted
at conferences, and there are several books published with the title of "Willie
Lynch."[1] In addition, new terminology called the "Willie Lynch Syndrome" has been
devised to explain the psychological problems and the disunity among Black people.

Further, it is naively assumed by a large number of Willie Lynch believers that this
single and isolated speech, allegedly given almost 300 years ago, completely
explains the internal problems and divisions within the African American community.
They assume that the "Willie Lynch Syndrome" explains Black disunity and the
psychological trauma of slavery. While some have questioned and even dismissed this
speech from the outset, it is fair to say that most African Americans who are aware
of the speech have not questioned its authenticity, and assume it to be a legitimate
and very crucial historical document which explains what has happened to African
Americans.

However, when we examine the details of the "Willie Lynch Speech" and its assumed
influence, then it becomes clear that the belief in its authenticity and widespread
adoption during the slavery era is nothing more than a modern myth. In this brief
examination, I will show that the only known "William Lynch" was born three decades
after the alleged speech, that the only known "William Lynch" did not own a
plantation in the West Indies, that the "speech" was not mentioned by anyone in the
18th or 19th centuries, and that the "speech" itself clearly indicates that it was
composed in the late 20th century.

SILENCE ON LYNCH SPEECH

The "Willie Lynch Speech" is not mentioned by any 18th or 19th century slavemasters
or anti-slavery activists. There is a large body of written materials from the
slavery era, yet there is not one reference to a William Lynch speech given in 1712.
This is very curious because both free and enslaved African Americans wrote and
spoke about the tactics and practices of white slavemasters. Frederick Douglass,
Nat Turner, Olaudah Equino, David Walker, Maria Stewart, Martin Delaney, Henry
Highland Garnet, Richard Allen, Absolom Jones, Frances Harper, William Wells Brown,
and Robert Purvis were African Americans who initiated various efforts to rise up
against the slave system, yet none cited the alleged Lynch speech. Also, there is
also not a single reference to the Lynch speech by any white abolitionists,
including John Brown, William Lloyd Garrison, and Wendell Phillips. Similarly,
there has been no evidence found of slavemasters or pro-slavery advocates referring
to (not to mention utilizing) the specific divide and rule information given in the
Lynch speech.

Likewise, none of the most credible historians on the enslavement of African
Americans have ever mentioned the Lynch speech in any of their writings. A
reference to the Lynch speech and its alleged divide and rule tactics are completely
missing in the works of Benjamin Quarles, John Hope Franklin, John Henrik Clarke,
William E.B. Du Bois, Herbert Aptheker, Kenneth Stampp, John Blassingame, Rosalyn
Terborg-Penn, Darlene Clark-Hine, and Lerone Bennett. These authors have studied the
details and dynamics of Black social life and relations during slavery, as well as
the "machinery of control" by the slavemasters, yet none made a single reference to
a Lynch speech.

Since the Willie Lynch speech was not mentioned by any slavemasters, pro-slavery
advocates, abolitionists, or historians studying the slavery era, the question of
course is when did it appear?

FIRST REFERENCE TO LYNCH SPEECH

The first reference to the Willie Lynch speech was in a late 1993 on-line listing of
sources, posted by Anne Taylor, who was then the reference librarian at the
University of Missouri at St. Louis (UMSL).[2] She posted ten sources to the UMSL
library database and the Lynch speech was the last item in the listing. Taylor in
her 1995 email exchanges with the late Dr. William Piersen (Professor of History,
Fisk University) and others interested in the origin of the Lynch speech indicated
that she keep the source from where she received the speech anonymous upon request,
because he was unable to establish the authenticity of the document. On October 31,
2005, Taylor wrote:

"Enough butt-covering, now it's time to talk about where I got it. The publisher
who gave me this [speech] wanted to remain anonymous...because he couldn't trace it,
either, and until now I've honored his wishes. It was printed in a local,
widely-distributed, free publication called The St. Louis Black Pages, 9th
anniversary edition, 1994*, page 8."

[*Taylor notes: "At risk of talking down to you, it's not unusual for printed
materials to be 'post-dated' - the 1994 edition came out in 1993].[3]

The Lynch speech was distributed in the Black community in 1993 and 1994, and in
fact I came across it during this time period, but as an historian trained in
Africana Studies and primary research I never took it serious. I simply read it and
put it in a file somewhere.

However, the Lynch speech was popularized at the Million Man March (held in
Washington, DC) on October 16, 1995, when it was referred to by Min. Louis
Farrakhan. He stated:

We, as a people who have been fractured, divided and destroyed because of our
division, now must move toward a perfect union. Let's look at a speech, delivered
by a white slave holder on the banks of the James River in 1712... Listen to what
he said. He said, 'In my bag, I have a foolproof method of controlling Black
slaves. I guarantee everyone of you, if installed correctly, it will control the
slaves for at least 300 years'...So spoke Willie Lynch 283 years ago."

The 1995 Million Man March was broadcast live on C-Span television and thus millions
of people throughout the U.S. and the world heard about the alleged Willie Lynch
speech for the first time. Now, ten years later, the speech has become extremely
popular, although many historians and critical thinkers questioned this strange and
unique document from the outset.

--------------------------
Full Text of the alleged Willie Lynch Speech, 1712:


"Gentlemen, I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord
one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of
the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of
your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the
West Indies where I have experimented with some of the newest and still the oldest
methods of control of slaves.

Ancient Rome would envy us if my program were implemented. As our boat sailed south
on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we
cherish. I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords
of woods as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers
you are here using the tree and the rope on occasion.

I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree a couple of miles back. You
are not only losing a valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves
are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum
profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed.

Gentlemen, you know what your problems are: I do not need to elaborate. I am not
here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving
them. In my bag here, I have a fool proof method for controlling your Black slaves.
I guarantee everyone of you that if installed correctly it will control the slaves
for at least 300 hundred years [sic]. My method is simple. Any member of your family
or your overseer can use it.

I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves: and I take these
differences and make them bigger. I use fear, distrust, and envy for control
purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and
it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences, and
think about them.

On top of my list is 'Age', but it is there only because it starts with an 'A': the
second is 'Color' or shade, there is intelligence, size, sex, size of plantations,
status on plantation, attitude of owners, whether the slave live in the valley, on
hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, coarse hair, or is tall or short.
Now that you have a list of differences. I shall give you an outline of action-but
before that I shall assure you that distrust is stronger than trust and envy is
stronger than adulation, respect, or admiration.

The Black slave after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become
self re-fueling and self generating for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. Don't
forget you must pitch the old Black male vs. the young Black male, and the young
Black male against the old Black male. You must use the dark skin slaves vs. the
light skin slaves and the light skin slaves vs. the dark skin slaves. You must use
the female vs. the male, and the male vs. the female. You must also have your white
servants and overseers distrust all Blacks, but it is necessary that your slaves
trust and depend on us. They must love, respect and trust only us.

Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and
children use them, never miss an opportunity. If used intensely for one year, the
slaves themselves will remain perpetually distrustful. Thank you, gentlemen."
---------------------------------------

WHO WAS WILLIE LYNCH ?

The only known "William Lynch" who could have authorized a 1712 speech in Virginia
was born 30 years after the alleged speech was given. The only known "William
Lynch" lived from 1742-1820 and was from Pittsylvania, Virginia. It is obvious that
"William Lynch" could not have authored a document 30 years before he was born!
This "William Lynch" never owned a plantation in the West Indies, and he did not own
a slave plantation in Virginia.

DIVIDE & RULE TACTICS

The Lynch speech lists a number of divide and rule tactics that were not important
concerns to slaveholders in the early 1700s, and they certainly were not adopted.
The anonymous writer of the Lynch speech states, "I have outlined a number of
differences among the slaves: and I take these differences and make them bigger."
Here is the list provided in the Lynch speech: age, color, intelligence, fine hair
vs. coarse hair, tall vs. short, male vs. female.

However, none of these "tactics" were concerns to slaveholders in the early 1700s in
the West Indies or colonial America. No credible historian has indicated that any
of the items on the Lynch list were a part of a divide and rule strategy in any
early 18th century. These are current 20th century divisions and concerns. Here
are the Lynch speech tactics versus the real divide and rule tactics that were
actually used in the early 18th century:


DIVIDE & RULE TACTICS



LYNCH SPEECH vs. HISTORICAL FACTS



Age Ethnic origin & language

Color (light vs. dark skin) African born vs. American born

Intelligence Occupation (house vs. field slave)

Fine hair vs. coarse hair Reward system for "good" behavior

Tall vs. short Class status

Male vs. female Outlawed social gatherings



It is certain that "Willie Lynch" did not use his divide and rule tactics on his
"modest plantation in the West Indies."


20th CENTURY TERMS IN LYNCH SPEECH

There are a number of terms in the alleged 1712 Lynch speech that are undoubtedly
anachronisms (i.e. words that are out of their proper historical time period). Here
are a few of the words in the speech that were not used until the 20th century:

Lynch speech: "In my bag here, I have a fool proof method for controlling your Black
slaves."

Anachronisms: "Fool proof" and "Black" with an upper-case "B" to refer to people of
African descent are of 20th century origin. Capitalizing "Black" did not become a
standard from of writing until the late 1960s.

Lynch speech: "The Black slave after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on
and will become self re-fueling and self generating for hundreds of years."

Anachronism: "Re-fueling" is a 20th century term which refers to transportation.

OTHER STRANGE FEATURES

* William Lynch is invited from the "West Indies" (with no specific country
indicated) to give only a short eight-paragraph speech. The cost of such a trip
would have been considerable, and for the invited speaker to give only general
remarks would have been highly unlikely.


* Lynch never thanked the specific host of his speech, he only thanked "the
gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here." Here, he is rude
and shows a lack of etiquette. Also, no specific location for the speech was
stated, only that he was speaking "on the bank [sic] of the James River."


* Lynch claims that on his journey to give the speech he saw "a dead slave
hanging from a tree." This is highly unlikely because lynching African
Americans from trees did not become common until the late 19th century.


* Lynch claims that his method of control will work for "at least 300 hundred
years [sic]." First, it has gone unnoticed that the modern writer of the
"speech" wrote three hundred twice ("300 hundred years"), which makes no
grammatical sense. It should be "300 years" or "three hundred years." Second,
the arbitrary choice of 300 years is interesting because it happens to
conveniently bring us to the present time.


* Lynch claims that his method of control "will work throughout the South."
This statement clearly shows the modern writer's historical ignorance. In 1712,
there was no region in the current-day U.S. identified as the "South." The
geographical region of the "South" did not become distinct until a century after
the alleged speech. Before the American Revolutionary War vs. Britain
(1775-1783) the 13 original U.S. colonies were all slaveholding regions, and
most of these colonies were in what later became the North, not the "South." In
fact, the region with the second largest slave population during the time of the
alleged William Lynch speech was the northern city of New York, where there
were a significant number of slave revolts.


* Lynch fails to give "an outline of action" for control as he promised in his
speech. He only gives a "simple little list of differences" among "Black
slaves."


* Lynch lists his differences by alphabetical order, he states: "On top of my
list is 'Age', but it is there only because it starts with an 'A'. " Yet, after
the first two differences ("age" and "color"), Lynch's list is anything but
alphabetical.


* Lynch spells "color" in the American form instead of the British form
("colour"). We are led to believe that Lynch was a British slaveowner in the
"West Indies," yet he does not write in British style.


* Lastly, the name Willie Lynch is interesting, as it may be a simple play on
words: "Will Lynch," or "Will he Lynch." This may be a modern psychological
game being played on unsuspecting believers?


WHO WROTE THE LYNCH SPEECH?

It is clear that the "Willie Lynch Speech" is a late 20th century invention because
of the numerous reasons outlined in this essay. I would advance that the likely
candidate for such a superficial speech is an African American male in the 20s-30s
age range, who probably minored in Black Studies in college. He had a limited
knowledge of 18th century America, but unfortunately he fooled many uncritical Black
people.

Some people argue that it doesn't matter if the speech is fact or fiction, because
white people did use tactics to divide us. Of course tactics were used but what
advocates of this argument don't understand is that African people will not solve
our problems and address the real issues confronting us by adopting half-baked urban
myths. If there are people who know that the Lynch speech is fictional, yet
continue to promote it in order to "wake us up," then we should be very suspicious
of these people, who lack integrity and will openly violate trust and willingly lie
to our community.

Even if the Willie Lynch mythology were true, the speech is focused on what white
slaveholders were doing, and there is no plan, program, or any agenda items for
Black people to implement. It is ludicrous to give god-like powers to one white man
who allegedly gave a single speech almost 300 years ago, and claim that this is the
main reason why Black people have problems among ourselves today! Unfortunately,
too often Black people would rather believe a simple and convenient myth, rather
than spend the time studying and understanding a situation. Too many of our people
want a one-page, simplified Ripley's Believe or Not explanation of "what happened."

WILLIE LYNCH DISTRACTION

While we are distracted by the Willie Lynch urban mythology, the real issues go
ignored. There are a number of authentic first-hand written accounts by enslaved
Africans, who wrote specifically about the slave conditions and the slavemasters'
system of control. For example, writers such as Olaudah Equiano, Mahommah Baquaqua,
and Frederick Douglass wrote penetrating accounts about the tactics of slave
control.

Frederick Douglass, for instance, wrote in his autobiography, Narrative of the life
of Frederick Douglass, that one of the most diabolical tactics of the American
slaveholders was to force the slave workers during their six days off for the
Christmas holiday to drink themselves into a drunken stupor and forget about the
pain of slavery. Douglass wrote, "It was deemed a disgrace not to get drunk at
Christmas; and he was regarded as lazy indeed, who had not provided himself with the
necessary means, during the year, to get whiskey enough to last him through
Christmas. From what I know of the effects of these holidays upon the slave, I
believe them to be the most effective means in the hands of the slaveholder in
keeping down the spirit of insurrection. Where the slaveholders at once to abandon
this practice, I have not the slightest doubt it would lead to an immediate
insurrection among the slaves.... The holidays are part and parcel of the gross
fraud, wrong, and inhumanity of slavery."[4]

Also, many nineteenth century Black writers discussed the specific tactics of the
white slaveowners and how they used Christianity to teach the enslaved Africans how
to be docile and accept their slave status. The problem with African American and
Black British revelry during the Christmas holidays and the blind acceptance of the
master's version of Christianity are no doubt major issues among Black people today.
It is certain that both of these problems were initiated and perpetuated during
slavery, and they require our immediate attention.

Many people who embrace the Willie Lynch myth have not studied the period of
slavery, and have not read the major works or first-hand documents on this issue of
African American slavery. As indicated above, this fictional speech is amazingly
used as required reading by some college instructors. Kenneth Stampp in his
important work on slavery in the American South, The Peculiar Institution (1956),
uses the historical records to outline the 5 rules for making a slave:

1. Maintain strict discipline.
2. Instill belief of personal inferiority.
3. Develop awe of master's power ( instill fear).
4. Accept master's standards of "good conduct."
5. Develop a habit of perfect dependence.[5]


Primary (first-hand) research is the most effective weapon against the distortion of
African history and culture. Primary research training is the best defense against
urban legends and modern myths. It is now time for critical thinkers to bury the
decade-old mythology of "William Lynch."

===================================================NOTES


1. For example, see: Lawanda Staten, How to Kill Your Willie Lynch (1997); Kashif
Malik Hassan-el, The Willie Lynch Letter and the Making of a Slave (1999); Marc
Sims, Willie Lynch: Why African-Americans Have So Many Issues! (2002); Alvin Morrow,
Breaking the Curse of Willie Lynch (2003); and Slave Chronicles, The Willie Lynch
Letter and the Destruction of Black Unity (2004).

2. See: www.umsl.edu/services/library/blackstudies/narrate.htm

3. For this quote and the general Anne Taylor email exchanges regarding the
authenticity of the Willie Lynch speech, see:
www.umsl.edu/services/library/blackstudies/winbail.htm


4. Frederick Douglass, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass (1845), p. 84.


5. Kenneth Stampp, The Peculiar Institution: Slavery in the Ante-Bellum South
(1956), pp. 144-48.

-----------------------------

*Prof. Manu Ampim is an Historian and Primary (first-hand) Researcher specializing
in African & African American history and culture. He is also a professor of
Africana Studies. He can be reached at:

PO Box 18623, Oakland, CA (USA). Tel. 510-482-5791. Email: Profmanu@acninc.net.

















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Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang

Post Number: 213
Registered: 04-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting.A couple of things sort of jump out of the article.Why would Farrakhan quote a document that is so obviously a recent fabrication and why, in the first place, was this deception so poorly executed? The author of this document should have done his homework and established some sort of supporting documentation.Find an obscure reference to a letter or address of some sort written by a person that actually existed, but the letter vanished a couple of centuries ago with no known copies, scrounge around and come up with a couple of blank pieces of paper from the correct era,enough old ink wells from the same period to re-liquify a few drops of era-correct ink, research the language and idioms of the region and class that your guy was from,throw in a few personal notes to known family members or friends of your guy, let the finished product sit in a hot attic for a couple of years, plant the document and develop some plausible means of 'discovering' it and there you go.Nothing to it.:-)
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden

Post Number: 1649
Registered: 03-2004

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Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 01:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the Lynch letter ain't real it ought to be because it is truth.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya

Post Number: 945
Registered: 07-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 02:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guys, I'll be right there as soon as I get the time to read the whole article and maybe do a little research on the side. From what little I did read, it seems really thought provoking and enticing; I'll be back ASAP...

Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique

Post Number: 3078
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:45 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Willie Lynch letter is really just a manual for psychological war fare. Its basic principles are practiced by anyone seeking to break another person's will, i.e. a marine drill sargeant, a CIA interrogator, a fraternity big brother, a good-cop/bad cop team, an American president. It's all about manipulating a person's thought processes and bending him to your will by instilling fear. Whether this document is authentic or not, it does serve to educate people about the technique of mind control and how it can be more powerful than any sword or gun.
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2

Post Number: 301
Registered: 09-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:28 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique writes: It's all about manipulating a person's thought processes and bending him to your will by instilling fear.

Uh huh
LiLi
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique, ChrisHayden and LL2:

I agree, but I also believe that "It is ludicrous to give god-like powers to one white man
who allegedly gave a single speech almost 300 years ago, and claim that this is the
main reason why Black people have problems among ourselves today!"

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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden

Post Number: 1659
Registered: 03-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is not giving God like powers to one white man. It is basically sketching out what has been done by a whole system.

It is easy from our vantage point to minimize what was done to African peoples here by the American system of chattel slavery. I suppose today, in a system where we are relatively safe and independent and in charge of our lives one can forget the power that was welded by the slaveowners and their overseers.

Imagine having no control at all over your body or your affairs. Imagine being totally dependent upon somebody else for your food, clothing, medical care. Imagine having no rights at all that the slaveowner and his overseer was bound to respect. Imagine somebody coming in your house doing what he or she wanted to you, taking away your family members, having no recourse.

Imagine being told what to think, what language to speak, how to worship, all that.

One problem that we black people have is a refusal to believe what has happened and how bad it is--I don't know, maybe because it would run us crazy or move us to murder or suicide--

When I first heard Farrakhan read that speech, I said, "Yes, I see it happening every day."

You can see it happening right on this site.
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Cynique
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Username: Cynique

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 01:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, we can see it happening right on this site. Sounds like your slavery hangover is tempting you to put a gun to your head.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 01:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

Now that one was really funny! Keep on and you may yet be a worthy opponent for myself--
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Cynique
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Username: Cynique

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 01:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A dubious distinction. You an opponent? More like a sitting duck.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio

Post Number: 1021
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 01:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To criticize the significance of Willie Lynch's speech is not the same as minimizing "what was done to African peoples here by the American system of chattel slavery." This is quite naive on your part, I think.

When people evoke willie lynch's letter...they evoke willie lynch the person more so than what Cynique addresses which is brainwashing, at least that is my experience.

More importantly, yes, it does sketch out part of what happened. Indeed, Prof. Ampim's paper doesn't disagree with the question and significane of the divide and conquer tactic. Again, as Cynique explains, this is nothing new.

Indeed, what it does criticize, I think, is the historical accuracy, and especially the presumption that black folks' problems are limited to (a) brainwashing and (b) the internalization of brainwashing.

In other words, if we were re-Africanized and, for that matter, unify for struggle then our problems would be solved.

I doubt it!

Personally, I think unification and a progressive pan-Africanism is essential, but this is only the start and it doesn't address the political, economic, cultural, etc....issues that need to be addressed in concert with unification and a cultural self-consciousness.

The implications of Lynch's speech is that blacks are in the conditions they are in because of internal conflict...this is part of the problem, a significant part, but insufficient to address economic, political, cultural and gender issues...

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Chrishayden
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Post Number: 1664
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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 01:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio:

When I google up the definition of "naive" your name appears in 3 D letters--

The internal conflict directly influences the economic, political cultural and gender issues--

They knew this when they mixed all the tribes together, destroyed the family units, etc etc.

How can you work on any of these issues if there is conflict and no unity

Look at this. Black folks can't even agree on the significance of this--

How can anything be accomplished?
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Yukio
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Post Number: 1022
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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course, the internal conflict influences, is related, to economics, politics, etc...I've already stated that. Your comments are self-evident and elementary!

When people discuss the speech, they talk about internal conflict--generational, gender, color-- w/o talking about economics, politics, etc...

In addition, many of these folk--usually conservative black nationalists--use the speech to mobilize around unity that is based on patriarchy, such as Louis Farakhan. Of course, unity is necessary, but many people stop there and proceed with their own brand of brainwashing...ie, some leaders of the black power movement! Black POwer was about black unity, right!

But for many Black Power leaders, black power also meant black patriarchy. When asked the "proper position of women in SNCC" Stokely Carmichael "jokingly" stated "prone."

Eldridge Cleaver states "The only way I that I can bust my nuts with a black bitch [si] to close my eyes and pretend that she is Jezebel."

In other words, unity doesn't guarantee a damn thing!
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Rustang
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Post Number: 214
Registered: 04-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Yukio:Unity comes in varying degrees and quality.There is a type that would go a long way towards correcting many of the problems faced by the blacks in the United States.If all blacks could agree to never, ever, under any circumstances murder, rape or rob another black, that would really help things out a bunch.One wouldn't think that this would require much to accomplish, but apparantly one would be mistaken.
To all:It is my opinion that the only reason a deception as shallow and obvious as the Willy Lynch letter could ever catch a toe-hold is that many people, black, white and every shade in between, are not in the habit of thinking things through.Even if this letter was real, which it is not, it didn't bring anything new to the table.People have had slaves for as long as there have been people and they are very good at controlling their property.Slaves were in the same category as goats, chickens and plow mules.The owners new how to maximize the utility and minimize the complications of owning slaves, horses, etc..They bring a guy from the west indies to tell them something that any school-age child knows?I think not.But, many people are pretty stupid.They prefer to have one person to point out and blame for all the things going wrong in their lives."If Willy Lynch hadn't delivered this speech things would be different today.He is responsible.I, therefore, am not."An idiot will just sit back and bleat about how bad he's got it if you give him any sham of an excuse to use for how it isn't his fault.The sad part is that it actually isn't his fault, but he doesn't understand that either.He's just intellectually lazy and totally unprepared for anything resembling a happy, successful life. If a person would like to know who is really responsible right here, right now for the problems we face, it is the self-serving apologists who merely pat them on the back and with a resounding 'Poor baby!!' assure them that everything that can be done is being done and if you just hang on a little bit longer the sweet chariots will come swinging in shortly.Well, this is hot off of the wire.The chariots ain't coming.Your ship ain't coming in.It sank.Nobody on this board will live long enough to see a society in which every person has the same opportunities as every other person.Take control of your own mind.Develop some mental discipline.Carve yourself a notch in the world and raise your children to be better people than you are.Eventually Dr. King's dream will come to pass if a significant number of us do this.Then Willy Lynch, or any other 'syndrome' won't matter any more.
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Tonya
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Post Number: 957
Registered: 07-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***The internal conflict directly influences the economic, political cultural and gender issues--***

Chris, you are the first black man that I've ever heard admit that....

Hallelujah, brotha!

...It's so true. And, unless we start there, nothing will ever change. It drives me nuts when Yukio (with his adorable self :-)) keeps going on and on about economic, political ect. ect., because, like most black men, he doesn't realize that he can go on until he turns blue, our economic/political/power struggles ain't going nowhere until we address our psychological struggles first.

Tonya

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Yukio
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Username: Yukio

Post Number: 1023
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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:08 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Elder rustang:

I'm not sure how your comment is relevant to me, but I, nevertheless, agree.

Tonya: You have missed my point. Firstly, what you have given CH kudos for was exactly my point...you can not separate unity (or the psychological as you call it) from the political:

Personally, I think unification and a progressive pan-Africanism is essential, but this is only the start and it doesn't address the political, economic, cultural, etc....issues that need to be addressed in concert with unification and a cultural self-consciousness.

Secondly, I agree with the need for unity, but argued that folks limit the Lynch's speech to unity and that is it; this was, as I understand, is the same point Elder Rustang makes when calls folk intellectually lazy!


Finally, there is no first or second...we do not have the fortune to choose which comes first...the psychological struggle or the political, economic, and cultural...The fact is, there are all, different parts of a whole. And none of the components are sufficient without the other parts....
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Tonya
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Post Number: 960
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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 07:20 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YOU MUST TREAT THE AILING PATIENT BEFORE HE CAN EVEN THINK ABOUT BECOMING POLITICALLY ECONOMICALLY AND CULTYRALLY SOUND, YUKIO.

That's common sense as well as fact.

Tonya
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Cynique
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Post Number: 3087
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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 09:54 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who is the "You" who is going to treat the ailing patient?? Who is well-adjusted or qualified enough to cure others of their dysfunction? And the idea of unity is wishful thinking, especially since the specters of class and colorism won't go away. Rustang represents the voice of experience and what he says about self-reliance is true. Do you see other groups huddling together, fretting about what "we" got to do? No. Their members go out on their own and through trial and error, sink or swim through their individual efforts. That's the reality of life in America.
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Yukio
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Post Number: 1024
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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 12:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya:
You should stick to declaratives rather than analogies. The problem is, why is this patient sick? And if you ask several doctors, all professionally trained, you can often get a variety of answers....Bad analogy!

I get your pt, but slightly disagree. What you don't seem to get is that life is a process, which is why, I believe, we are in the constant process of becoming...eventually, one hopes, we can get to a point where we can see the "big picture" and appreciate the interdependence of activism and consciousness. Of course, this doesn't mean that we are not conscious, but it may be rudimentary...

As my example of the black power movement tried to suggest. The Black power movement was essential, for it showed how group consciousness is essential group power. Black folk embraced their ancestral culture and began to affirm their likeness, their language, and belief systems.

But, at the same time, that consciousness was also, for many at least, self-hating, misogynistic, and politically underdeveloped. There was unity and there was a psychological cleanizing, to a degree, but there were many, many problems....again, I hear you, but life and God can only determine when and how we focus on these issues...the point is that these issues are all related and that they must be addressed!
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Enchanted
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Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2005

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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:04 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know. I tend to believe that the Willie Lynch letter is real. I was raised knowing about it.

It didn't concern me too much, but I knew about it.

I believe it's real.



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Cynique
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Post Number: 3091
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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Yukio, "You" have answered my question as to who the "You" is who's qualified to cure black ills. The "You" is "You." LOL. The problem is that the implementation of the treatment has a bad prognosis because the ones who need to be healed most are the ones who don't know they're sick. The task of dispensing awareness is an arduous one because it is hampered by the materialistic mindset of people who are focused on what they want, instead of what they need. For 100 years black "leaders" have been trying to set their people on the right track but for every one step forward, there are 2 steps backward. Overhauling the mind-set of an entire race of people is especially difficult when the powers-that-be aren't very cooperative. Which is why the voting bloc that is one of the few areas where blacks as a people come together doesn't have great influence because the Democrats and the Republicans are both a part of the infamous "System." So, the realization that you have to market yourself continues to be an individual epiphany.
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Yukio
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Username: Yukio

Post Number: 1026
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique: Yes. "You" is "you," but it is also a party, an organization, etc...So there is, as you delineate, this relationship between the individual and an organizations or organizations...each has its own mindset or philosophy. My point was that each change...it is a process and there is no way one can choose if they're be psychologically prepared but not politically and economically prepared...or vice versa....one would hope that a consciousness and participation in these political and economic issues could happen at the same time....but this is rare....black Marxist...It was only late CLR James' life that he began to appreciate the cultural integrity of Carribbean culture... his consciousness and who he unified with were marxists, some black and some of other socalled races....

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