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Stephgirl
Newbie Poster
Username: Stephgirl
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 12:58 pm: | 
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MENTACIDE ALERT: Here's an article written by Mr. Kristof promoting white supremacy through the idea of black men and white women relationships. Keep in mind that Mr. Kristoff is a white male married to an Asian female. Here's the article below.
BLACKS, WHITES AND LOVE
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
The New York Times, 4/24/05
One gauge of the progress we've made in American race relations in recent decades is the growing number of blacks and whites who have integrated their hearts and ended up marrying each other.
As of the 2000 census, 6 percent of married black men had a white wife, and 3 percent of married black women had a white husband -- and the share is much higher among young couples. Huge majorities of both blacks and whites say they approve of interracial marriages, and the number of interracial marriages is doubling each decade. One survey found that 40 percent of Americans had dated someone of a different race.
But it's hard to argue that America is becoming more colorblind when we're still missing one benchmark: When will Hollywood dare release a major movie in which Denzel Washington and Reese Witherspoon fall passionately in love?
For all the gains in race relations, romance on the big screen between a black man and a white woman remains largely a taboo. Americans themselves may be falling in love with each other without regard to color, but the movie industry is still too craven to imitate life.
Or perhaps the studios are too busy pushing the limits on sex, nudity and violence to portray something really kinky, like colorblind love.
Back in 1967, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" helped chip away at taboos by showing a black man and white woman scandalizing their parents with their -- chaste -- love. In 2005 we have a new version of "Guess Who," but it only underscores how little progress we've made.
The latest "Guess Who" is about a white man in love with a black woman, and that's a comfortable old archetype from days when slave owners inflicted themselves on slave women. Hollywood has portrayed romances between white men and (usually light-complexioned) black women, probably calculating that any good ol' boy seeing Billy Bob Thornton embracing Halle Berry in "Monster's Ball" is filled not with disgust but with envy.
Off screen, the change has been dizzying. At least 41 states at one time had laws banning interracial marriage. A 1958 poll found that 96 percent of whites disapproved of marriages between blacks and whites.
That same year, in North Carolina, two black boys, a 7-year-old named Fuzzy Simpson and a 9-year-old named Hanover Thompson, were arrested after a white girl kissed Hanover. The two boys were convicted of attempted rape. As Randall Kennedy notes in his book "Interracial Intimacies," Fuzzy was sentenced to 12 years, and Hanover to 14 years. Pressure from President Dwight Eisenhower eventually secured the boys' release.
Then the mood began to change, and 1967 was the turning point. That was the year that the daughter of Dean Rusk, then secretary of state, married a black man. Secretary Rusk proudly walked his daughter down the aisle (after warning President Lyndon Johnson of the political risks), and Time magazine put the couple on its cover. That was also the year of "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" and of a Supreme Court ruling striking down miscegenation laws.
Yet right from the beginning, the entertainment industry has lagged society in its racial mores. Films and television have always been squeamish about race: in 1957, on Alan Freed's ABC show, the black singer Frankie Lymon was seen dancing with a white woman. ABC promptly canceled the show.
There have been just a few mainstream movies with black men romancing white women, lower-profile films like "One Night Stand." More typically, you get a film like "Hitch," where the studio pairs a black man with a Latina.
Popular entertainment shapes our culture as well as reflects it, and one breakthrough might come late next year with the possible release of "Emma's War." That's a movie that 20th Century Fox is considering, in which a white woman -- Nicole Kidman is being discussed -- marries an African. It's great that Hollywood is close to catching up to Shakespeare's "Othello."
Let's hope that Hollywood will finally dare to be as iconoclastic as its audiences. It's been half a century since Brown v. Board of Education led to the integration of American schools, but the breakdown of the barriers of love will be a far more consequential and transformative kind of integration -- not least because it's spontaneous and hormonal rather than imposed and legal.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 932
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
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Including the undercurrents of an apparent homosexual, racist, white man who longs to see a big black "buck" knock boots with a "white 'virgin' goddess"... that could have easily been written by a random black man, straight or not... especially the part where he alluded the "disgust" one would encounter by being forced to endure the image of a dark-skinned black woman paired romantically with a white (or black) man -- typical black man's thoughts and behavior.. no different than the racist psycho-sexual thoughts and behavior of white men & women towards blacks (men & women) throughout history.
Tonya
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Stephgirl
Newbie Poster
Username: Stephgirl
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 06:48 pm: |
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Tonya,
I couldn't agree more. I don't recall him exhorting Asians, Arabs, and Latinos to mate with whites because he would encounter a lot of opposition from members of the above groups and yet he feels that blacks can improve themselves by aligning themselves to whites. Especially black men. His article specifically targets black men to have relationships with white women. Furthermore, his article consciously puts white women on the pedestal, one supposedly "desired" by men of all races. That view IS A LIE!!! His views come straight out of white southern racists and the movie, "Birth of a Nation."
May God watch us all!
Stephanie |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 287
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 09:59 am: |
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I miss the white supremacy view of the article. Can you point to specific pharases..etc. I read a man who is commenting that Hollywood wont buy into the notion that a black person can actually fall in love with a white person and call it what it REALLY could be and that is Love. All black and white relationships are not done for mischief. I have a white sister-in-law I wouldnt trade for a black one based on how she treats my brother and my neice and newphew. The problem or experience, if you will, I have with those interracial relationships is SOME black men marry white woman for "the wrong reasons". They say its because they cant find a black woman or "we" are too needy greedy or some other stupid azz reason. I dont have a problem with the "why you cross over" just dont use "us" as the excuse when you cross over.
LiLi |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1018
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 06:16 pm: |
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hmmm....the first problem with the article is that interracial marriage represents improved race relations. The term race relations masks the economic, political, and cultural components. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 212
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:06 am: |
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It seems that a significant number of brothers view having a white woman on their arm in exactly the same way they view having a Bentley in their driveway.I'm not real sure what that says about them, but I don't think it's saying anything positive. |
Stephgirl
Newbie Poster
Username: Stephgirl
Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 04:36 pm: |
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To Yukio and Rustang,
Thanks. I'm so sick of articles from mainstream(White)media that portrays interracial relationships with whites as panacea for racial problems without addressing the inequities that perpetuate white supremacy. I'm tired of the rhetoric of black men marrying white women to be progressive over improving black relationships of all kinds. I'm sorry, I'm not feeling Mr. Kristoff's article. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 203
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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To Lili: I get exactly what Stephgirl and Tonya are seeing. Basically, the writer believes that the best way to to solve racism is to have more black men not marry black women. If he would have promoted interracial relationships in all directions, he may have been more believable.
For instance, he could have mentioned the fact that both black American women and Chinese men are saying that there's a shortage of mates; he could have pointed out the number of male immigrant workers who are single and unable to bring mates to this country; he could have pointed out any number of scenarios that would show his approval of interracial relationships and be more EQUITABLE.
But it's too one-sided for him to believe that the best way to solve racism is for, SPECIFICALLY, black men to marry any body other than black women. Racism won't necessarily be solved by more Asians marrying outside, by more Arabs marrying outside, by more Hispanics marrying outside ... BUT if MORE BLACK MEN didn't marry black women, the world's racism problem would be fixed.
Not only does this hyprocrite try to get black men to solve a problem they didn't start, but in doing so they would also assist the racists in making sure that no 100% black children be born, and more specifically, that no 100% black children are born to black women (considering that most children, whether or not you believe it, identify more with the mother's race than the father's, since it's the mother's values/opinions that the child is mostly exposed to). And even when black children are born to black women, the black man would be more encouraged to leave black children fatherless, and make sure more half white children are born. In the name of PROGRESS, of course.
And that's what burns me up. That the only way assholes like him feel that there's progress in race relations is if black people refuse to find other black people suitable for marriage. Not if ALL people intermixed, but SPECIFICALLY, black people.
So, yeah, that's the biggest BS I've heard in a while: Not only is it the black man's job to solve racism, but the best way to do it is to not marry black women. My ass. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 291
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 11:35 pm: |
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I think Im a pretty good reader...I read it 20 times..trying to find the conspiracy you folks seem to read..and all I keep coming up with is an article about Hollywood and its complicity to keep the black man from falling in love with a white woman..cause that aint what "ya'll" wanna see. Ya got mad at Wesley, Ya got mad at Terrance, Ya got mad at Halle...
LiLi..who is now going to bed |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 944
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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We see two different things.... So what??? Noboby's "mad" at Wesley, Terrence, Halle, or you; and we're not trying to force you to see anything -- frankly, I doubt if any of us care what you see. But you asked us to explain our view and when someone did, instead of thanking her, you get shitty and then accuse *US* of being "mad"!?!?! (Please!!!). Go to bed.
Tonya |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 292
Registered: 09-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 01:19 pm: |
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You have got to be kidding. Why is it when folks have an opposing view on here......I only expressed what I saw and I wasnt shitty about it. When I used "ya'll" I wasnt speaking to you or anyone else on this board but to people who I have heard express those views. Your also not forcing me to do anything to include going to bed. I thought this was a discussion. Excuse me..
LiLi |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 790
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 01:55 pm: |
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LiLi, your post is direct, refreshing and on point!!!! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 915
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
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Because Nicholas D. Kristoff is a personal hero of my life, I haven't commented.
I do agree with Stephgirl and Tonya's and Renata's points.
But I don't think Nicholas's "view" is deliberate or with intended prejudice.
He's basically just trying to prove---as a WHITE MAN---that he's comfortable with black men loving and having white women and he's basically joining the "We are the world" brigade.....
his comments are no different than MOST black male Scholars, politicians, etc. from John Edgar Wideman to Jesse Jackson.
He really doesn't know that he's a white supremacist...just like John Edgar Wideman doesn't know that he's a white supremacist, too.
They all believe that the answer to racism....is to ERASE black people.
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 293
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 04:54 pm: |
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Thank you Moon
LiLi..who is only trying to express her view point with grown folks in a manner that is always respectful..NEVER shitty |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3077
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 05:45 pm: |
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I hear ya, LiLi. You know you're my girl. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 353
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:24 pm: |
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Disturbing. The world is subconsciously destroying black people under the guise of racial unity (which may be impossible), and SO FEW are aware of what they are doing! America better wake the f#%k up! Especially BLACK America. |
Stephgirl
Newbie Poster
Username: Stephgirl
Post Number: 17
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:57 pm: |
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Thanks Kola, Tonya, Renata, Roxie and others for saying what the article really represents to black people. In America, Whites still represent a slight majority and yet they are not marrying outside the race. Only 4 percent do. Same with Latinos, Asians, Middle Eastern, East Indian, and Jewish people. They are not marrying Blacks or any outsiders for that matter. Neither are Blacks. As a matter of fact, a vast majority 95% of us form marital unions with other blacks and yet that white man from the NYT who doesn't care about us wants to decimate the black population through IRs with whites. He feel that Black people should be grateful bleaching themselves into white through such unions. That statement should have made a lot of Blacks offended. Unfortunately, most aren't. That's the saddest part of all.
Stephanie |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 947
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 08:58 pm: |
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Bullshit, sistah! First.. you all but called us a bunch of knuckledragging conspiracy theorists.... Then, in a very snide brazen attemp, you tried to make it seem like we're trifling enough to make shit up cuz "{it} ain't what {we} wanna see".... And you have the nerve to pull an about-face by acting like you're some innocent victim.. as if you're being prevented from "expressing yourself." Give it a rest....
I'm not appalled by your viewpoint (which I know you understand), it's your blatant dishonesty that I find atrocious. Your perspective was never in question; your attitude was called on the carpet. You should've stated your veiw and kept the fuck on stepp'n, like everybody else -- the knee-slappin hootenanny was not needed. And don't give me that shit about "respect" -- if that's what you wanted, that's what you should've given. You've been here long enough to know the deal: ... WON'T BE NONE
As for being adult about it... so far I've given you the clean version...
Tonya |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 296
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:20 pm: |
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kiss my azz
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 948
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:22 pm: |
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Suck my nigga's dick. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 297
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:41 pm: |
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I want to apoligize to the room. Clearly this is a person who has nothing else to do but I on the other hand am way to busy to be pulled into this BS. You win Tonya
LiLi |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 916
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:52 pm: |
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Lily, you are so sweet, funny and WISE. That's what I love about your posts.
And Tonya---you just literally give me the ENERGY to get up and keep fighting. I love your crude take no prisoners Angie Stone-soundtrack spout it like SHEBA at Mt. Sinai black self to death!!! 
I hope you sisters can get along and keep coming back. You're both so special and needed.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 949
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:53 pm: |
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Naw, bitch.. you won. You learned the lesson... |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 299
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:11 pm: |
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Bitch is a female dog..I dont resemble that at all |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3079
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 01:04 am: |
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All of these explanations and predictions and theories are just so much rhetoric. The issue of color and race will eventually sort itself out and how it ends up will be influenced very little about how garrulous people think things should be. Fate has a way of mocking malcontents. It lulls them into submission with materialism. All anybody really wants is an abundance of life's amenities. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 300
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:25 am: |
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Cynique writes: All anybody really wants is an abundance of life's amenities.
That works for me.
LiLi |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 791
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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LiLi, your "levelheadedness" (sp?--lol) is apparent and respectable! And you've NEVER been shitty with anyone here....ever!
This discussion--if it can really be called that--has evolved in typical fashion. Initially, I didn't want to comment because I wanted to read others responses. And to be quite frank, the overanalyzing and psychoanalyzing of people, relationships and color can, at times, be quite nauseating--and unnecessary. Talk about dehumanizing individuals.
Nevertheless, I didn't read anywhere in that article that implies a black man marrying a white woman "solves" racism. What he, in fact, states is that, "AMERICAN THEMSELVES MAY BE FALLING IN LOVE WITHOUT REGARD TO COLOR, BUT THE MOVIE INDUSTRY IS STILL TOO CRAVEN TO IMITATE LIFE." And he's right. When Hollywood ("the media" that I think is rather corrupt) creates any type of "work" that features a black man/white woman coupling, the plot is ALWAYS twisted around some "taboo", "kinky", or perverted stereotype of such relationships, and it's the primary focus of the entire movie. When in reality, the average IR couple is living normal, HUMAN life--raising kids, working, playing and paying bills. But just as dark skin black women and black women in general are unequally and misrepresented in the media--so are black men and white women couplings.
I'm glad that this white man is secure enough in his manhood and sexuality to be able to confront this issue. Speaks volumes about him.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 792
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:51 am: |
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And while IR couples aren't a sign that racism has dissovled, IR couples having the right to be married, procreate and live happily in many areas of the US, is a reflection of the understanding that one human being can't control another human beings life and choices. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 302
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:35 pm: |
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Moonsigns writes:Nevertheless, I didn't read anywhere in that article that implies a black man marrying a white woman "solves" racism. What he, in fact, states is that, "AMERICAN THEMSELVES MAY BE FALLING IN LOVE WITHOUT REGARD TO COLOR, BUT THE MOVIE INDUSTRY IS STILL TOO CRAVEN TO IMITATE LIFE." And he's right. When Hollywood ("the media" that I think is rather corrupt) creates any type of "work" that features a black man/white woman coupling, the plot is ALWAYS twisted around some "taboo", "kinky", or perverted stereotype of such relationships, and it's the primary focus of the entire movie. When in reality, the average IR couple is living normal, HUMAN life--raising kids, working, playing and paying bills. But just as dark skin black women and black women in general are unequally and misrepresented in the media--so are black men and white women couplings.
Thank you for saying what I cleary bungled at trying to get across. Also thank you for recognizing that I stick to my story of trying to have a discourse that is adult and respectful.
LiLi STILL washing out her potty mouth with green tea |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3088
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:08 am: |
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Your civility just shines through, Li-Li. You set an example for all of us who stoop to insult and profanity. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3089
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:51 am: |
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The fact that those who bash interracial couples never take into consideration that white blood can benefit from being mixed with black blood reveals a lot about these colorist "vigilantes". Subconsciously they, themselves, apparently buy into the idea of white supremacy because they never give black blood credit for contributing traits that will benefit the off-spring of mixed mating. The preoccupation with color is so fraught with emotion that it seems to blur clarity of thought. |
Enchanted
Newbie Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:01 pm: |
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Hi Lili, glad to meet you.
I stopped posting when I saw the immaturity and hatefulness of some of the women on here. They have no home training but wonder why the world rejects them.
I am a dark skinned woman and I don't feel any of this ridiculousness that these people keep raising. We're all black to me and I believe in living and letting others live.
The article was very true and well done. I applaud you trying to be a lady by giving that child the "win". Shame she hasn't any home training.
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 304
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:39 am: |
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Thanks Cynique! and nice to meet you as well Enchanted! Amen to your point of live and let live..!
LiLi |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 965
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 03:42 pm: |
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Why would A "colorist 'vigilante'" care terribly about what benifits the off-spings of mixed mating. Wouldn't this person be obsessed with what benifits his/her own off-springs, while caring less (or maybe, not at all) about what benefits the off-spings of another?
I'm surprised you'd call what you described clear thinking. It sounds unrealistic, too me.... Oh, well...
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3097
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 04:04 pm: |
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Well, that certainly wasn't a clear question. My point was that a mixed offspring is not an example of blackness betrayed. Unless, of course, you fear that white blood is superior enough to wipe blackness out. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 968
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:37 pm: |
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Your point wasn't given with a whole lot of "clarity" ... my bad ... |
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