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Stephgirl
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Post Number: 13
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beauty Standards
By Steven Malik Shelton

IT is revealing that the prestigious CBS news program "60 Minutes" recently published an article highlighting actress Aishwarya Rai as, perhaps, the "World’s Most Beautiful Woman." Not surprising, Miss Rai is a very light-skinned woman from India with sharp Caucasian-like features. The article also makes reference to White women of the past who were (and are) projected as the epitome of beauty and refinement. Women like Grace Kelly, Ingrid Bergman and Elizabeth Taylor.

The problem with this perspective is that it reeks with racism in that it assumes that White women (or those that look White) are the standard bearers for beauty and attractiveness and it makes these assumptions at the expense, neglect and denigration of the multitudes of Black women (in particular) and women of color(in general) through out the world. It is also disturbing because it is done without even a hint of the offensiveness and utter absurdity of it all.

It is as if the White media has become so enamored with the truth of its propaganda and so confident of its effectiveness on the psyches of other races and ethnic groups that it does not hesitate to make these ridiculous and arrogant declarations. And it does so over and over again.

Periodically, magazines and periodicals will announce in bold headlines that some White woman is the "World’s Most Beautiful" or that some White man is "The Sexiest Man Alive" thereby insinuating that Whites alone occupy the precipice of unrivaled beauty and desirability.

There is an old cliche’ which cuts to the heart of the matter. It is said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or perhaps more accurately, it could be said that beauty is in the mind of the beholder for it is within the mind that all perception, whether the sense of sight, taste, touch, smell or hearing are registered and conceived. Thus while Aishwarya Rai or Grace Kelly or Britney Spears, etc. may be quite beautiful to some, they may also be quite homely, ugly or repulsive to others who possess different standards of beauty and physical attractiveness.

Moreover beauty standards are perceived according to the cultural norms that people are accustomed to and this has a great influence on how the attractiveness of a person is perceived. For example the cultural norms and beauty standards of the Masai in Africa are different from that of the Eskimos in Alaska. And a woman or man ( regardless of how comely their outward appearance) would be considered repulsive if they exhibited inappropriate behavior in the morally straight-laced culture of the Middle East or even within some devout religious communities within America itself.

Black Americans, perhaps more than anyone else, carry a heavier psychological burden. The mental damage of centuries of bombardment with Euro-American standards of beauty has had tremendous impact on how we view ourselves within what is essentially an alien White culture.

During chattel slavery (and afterwards) we were brainwashed into thinking of anything naturally Black or African as ugly, repulsive or inferior while considering everything White, European or Caucasion as appealing, attractive and desirable. This is probably most noticeable when it pertains to Black women and their hair. Author Earl Ofari Hutchinson writes:

"...few things generate more anger and passion among Black women than their hair. Some Black critics say that women are in a frenzied search to shed the ancient racist shame and stigma of "nappy hair=bad hair" by aping White beauty standards. Others say that, like many non-Black women, Black women are helpless captives of America’s fashion and beauty industry, which is geared to making them more attractive and pleasing to men. Many Black women counter this by saying that they merely seeking their own identity or trying to "look better."[1]

Yet this desire to "look better" frequently manifests itself in strange ways. One of the more noticeable is the artificial straightening of the God-given texture of their hair so that it will resemble that of Whites, or any group or grade other than their own lamb-like quality of hair. A hair which ( contrary to most grades) is not weak and flaccid but beautifully spirals upwards toward the sun.

The desire of Black women (and to a lesser extent Black men) to straighten their hair was prompted by a mental bombardment that caused a change in the most sacred and fundamental regions of the Black psyche. This warping of the Black perspective was successful only after the most terrible and tortuous process of brainwashing over a duration of centuries.

Black people were whitewashed into believing that everything African or Black was inferior, backward and ugly, while everything White or Caucasion was superior, beautiful and desirable. Yet this perceptual distortion could not be effective without a kind of mental slight-of-hand regarding the historical and cultural validity of Africa and African "Black" beauty standards. Black people were ingrained with a sense of inferiority. They were persuaded in hundreds of ways, by beatings, whippings and by the most vicious verbal, and physical castigations that they were ugly.

Thus those African traits and characteristics which had been naturally beautiful and adorable among them for hundreds of thousands of years began to perceived as ugly, be it the color and curl of the hair, the shape of the nose, the fullness of the lips, the darkness of the skin or the fullness of the posterity. They all (instead of manifestations of strength, vigor and beauty) became transformed into badges of shame, rejection, ridicule and hatred. Brother Olomenji explains in the essay, Mentacide, Genocide, and National Vision:

"The Black slave in America views the world through his master’s eyes, which is why our belief system is not ‘ours’ but rather that of the slave master. How a race perceives the world will determine what that race will think and believe about the world, which will determine what the race will do about the world. One of major problems with this slave mentality is that it is made up of learned perceptions, learned belief systems, and learned behavior taught to us over 400 years of slavery." [2]

The recipient of an insidious forced/ learned behavior, our minds were methodically crippled into a state of insanity. This insanity was activated when we merged our perceptions with the perceptions of our White oppressors and exploiters at the expense of our own Black empowerment, liberation and salvation. We were force-fed the poison of White racism into our minds and we began to look at the world (and ourselves) through strange, inverted glasses. And our world, the marvelous world of Blackness, the African world of strength and beauty; was effectively turned upside down and we began to believe the lies and to accept them as facts and (even more devastating) we began to assault the minds and the spirits of our children with the bitterness of our self-hatred. We threatened in our fits of anger, to "beat all the Black" off of them.

We told our daughters and our sons to do something with their "ugly nappy head" or we threatened to "slap all the naps off" their heads. And in doing this to our children to our men and to our women, we adopted the mind-set of our enslavers and our enemies and we passed this sickness down from one generation to the next and it is still with us now. It weighs down our steps, divides us and blinds us to the immeasurable power that is still inherent (even after centuries of chattel slavery, genocide and mentacide) within us. Power which manifest itself in people like Nat Turner, Denmark Vessey, Frederick Douglas, Marcus Garvey, Elijah Muhammad, George Jackson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Dr. Ben Carson, Louis Farrakhan, Dr. Claude Anderson, and Harriet Tubman, Cynthia McKinney, Maxine Waters, JoAnn Watson, and countless others.

The antidote for the venom of delusional self-hatred is knowledge of self which will inculcate within us a vision of who we were, who we are, and where we need to go. This vision is jump-started with a understanding of our history. For our history is not something that is to be discarded as usleless, worthless or obsolete, but is vital to our very survival as a people. Amos N Wilson writes in his book, The Falsification of Afrikan Consciousness:

"When we get into social amnesia - into forgetting our history - we also forget or misinterpret the history and motives of others as well as our motives. The way to learn of our own creation, how we came to be what we are, is getting to know ourselves. It is through getting to know the self intimately that we get to know the forces that shaped us as a self. Therefore knowing the self becomes a knowledge of the world. A deep study of Black History is the most profound way to learn about the psychology of Europeans and to understand the psychology that flows from their history.

If we don’t know ourselves, not only are we a puzzle to ourselves; other people are also a puzzle to us as well. We assume the wrong identity and identify ourselves with our enemies. If we don’t know who we are then we are whomever somebody tells us we are."[3]

Thus a process of love and appreciation for self (especially our women) and group identity must be rejuvenated and maintained in every aspect of our lives. We must once again see the world through African eyes and rejoice in our Blackness and be in harmony with the Creator that fashioned us with our unique physical, mental and spiritual abilities and perceptions. Brother Akil writes:

"So my dear sisters, please be your Black self and keep your natural Black beauty ...... your strong, bold, and beautiful naps as opposed to weak, limp, and lifeless strands of hair. Your Creator made your beauty naturally unique! Your Creator wanted your Black natural beauty to stand out amongst the peoples of the world." [4]

Notes and References:

[1] "Why African Americans Are Splitting Hairs Over Hair," by Earl Ofari Hutchinson, accessible online at: www.pacificnews.org/jinn/stories/4.24/981204- hair.html

[2] Olemenje, "Mentacide, Genocide, and National Vision," Africa World Press, Inc. (1996) p. 74

[3] Amos N Wilson, "The Falsification of Afrikan Consciousness," Afrikan World InfoSystems, New York (1993) p. 38

[4] Akil, Nia Communications/Press (1993) p.p. 35,36

Source: by courtesy & © 2005 Steven Malik Shelton●
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 01:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Everything the author says is true, but he neglects to mention that millions of white females don't look like Grace Kelly or Elizabeth Taylor, either. That's why they are all running out to get plastic surgery. As me and Moonie regularly remind people, the standards for beauty are universal and have to do with symmetry, with the golden triangle rule which is applied to the to show how well-proportioned the facial features are. Tests given to infants who were deemed to be the ultimate in objectivity showed that they actually were intimidated by certain types of faces but all responded favorably to a face whose eyes, nose, and mouth were arranged in a certain way, and skin color had no bearing on this.
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Afroamerican
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 01:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think Ms. Rai is considered an Anglo-Indian. (Never even knew there were different "Races" of Indians until recently.) Anyway, I think her facial features (big eyes, hooked nose, black hair) look very sterotypically Indian. Its her SKIN that's unnaturally light for MOST Indian people. Kind of like Beyonce. She looks sterotypically "Black/Afro-American" its her HAIR that's making her seem "Whiter looking".

______________________________

I know we've discussed a million times here about White beauty standards oppossed on the world. However, I think much of this is the GLOBAL CAUCASIAN Snydrom popping up again. Everyone is made "White" or "White looking" when there's something in it for Caucasians. I've seen people claim Martin Luther King Jr. was "mixed".
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Renata
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 07:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

North Indians/Pakistanis are very white looking. South Indians/Bangladeshis are very black looking (some with curly hair are even sometimes mistaken for black here in the States). Interestingly, the darker/much thinner/actually better looking southerners go through a lot of what black American women go through. They're more likely to be victims of spousal abuse and dowry murders, they have to pay a higher dowry price (on the subcontinent, women must pay dowries, not men), they are less likely to be educated, and more likely to be abandoned by husbands, especially if they have a dark skinned daughter. Also, if you've ever read the matrimonials, there's no question as to what the men are looking for: within the first 3 lines, it's not uncommon AT ALL for the ad to say that they are looking for a women who MUST BE FAIR SKINNED. Women's ads usually will say they are fair or wheat colored. Dark skinned women don't mention complexion.
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Tonya
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynnique,

"Everything the author says is true..."

Everything this author says is virtually identical to what Kola says; yet you continue to attack what she says as being mythical/untrue. Since it seems to be the messenger that you disapprove of, not so much the message, why attack the message and give false claims that it's untrue? As a person who have a lot of respect for much of what you say, it appears that you are so occupied with your disapproval of the messenger that your own message regarding this subject has become tainted, and as a consequence, dishonest.

***As me and Moonie regularly remind people, the standards for beauty are universal and have to do with symmetry...***

Nobody (to my knowledge) disagrees with that; but perfect symmetry has nothing to do with the persistent upholding of European beauty standards. What you and Moonie proclaim is confusing because y'all never make the point clear. Are you saying that European standards of beauty don't really exist; or, are you saying that people who are not of (and/or far from) European descent don't possess flawless/ideal symmetry?

As for the article, I think it's refreshing. It's good to see that so many black men are speaking out about this subject. This author exhibits one of the prime examples of a real black man.

Tonya

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Renata
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"If we don’t know who we are then we are whomever somebody tells us we are."

Beautiful.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Contrary to what you and Kola try to accuse me of, Tonya, I have never put people down because of their skin color or how they wear their hair or what they look like. I have merely said that people have the right to exercise choices when it comes to their appearance. It is you and Kola who are the ones constantly making reference to color, constantly talking about mixed people, constantly talking about who is authentic black and who isn't; constantly trying to lay that self-hate thing on people - all to know avail I might add because I don't hate myself and am comfortable with the fact that I am who I am, which includes being the descendant of slaves, and, who like everybody else during the during the 1970s, wore a full blown Afro. And if you and Kola would have a couple of sessions on the shrink's couch, you'd probably find out that you are actually the ones full of self hate. That's why you are so volatile on the subject of color.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 11:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And I don't feel the need to comment further on this subject since it's pretty much established that the bottom line is, indeed, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Nels
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 03:31 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This thread had potential, but it seems to have petered out a bit early. Where is the life on this board? Anemic. It looks like it's in need of some more provocative dialogue.
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 09:06 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Nels, why don't you contribute some input instead of "sitting in the audience" waiting for other posters to entertain you???
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 09:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I asked you two very specific questions, and there you go, attacking not only me but Kola as well. She hasn't even participated in this discussion, nor is she here to defend herself. But, little do you know, your verbal absurdities and unhinged behavior says more about *you* than anyone else. Your nervous skepticism, haste to distrust, self-protect, and become overly defensive made blatant how it is you manage to delude yourself. A Cynic? Please! Stop avoiding the real issue -- suggesting that anyone "have a couple of sessions on the shrink's couch" was nothing more than a slip of the tongue and a manifestation of your own paranoid psyche. Start questioning your own nutty wellbeing; and Keep your self descriptive characterizations to yourself. As for your life story, I didn't ask whether you are victom of self-hate; nor did I give you a reason to defensively justify yourself: a guilt-ridden recap of...

"FIGHT THE POWER!"

So, if your angry rant was intended to confront my questions, it was off the mark. And, if it was intended to assault my character, give it a rest; it missed it's target, did a boomarang, and performed a helluvan assassinated on you....

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whooooa! Who do you think you are that I have submit myself to your cross-examination??? I said what I had to say when I agreed with the article and added a few comments. If you can't accept that then that's your problem. As for me being angry, puleeeze. You really over-estimate your impact on me. Which is to say that you can think what you want because your opinions really don't make any difference to me. Now run along like a good girl. BTW. You do need shrink. LMAO.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:15 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatever, you greezy biscuit eatin' nigger!
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:27 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ROTFLOL. And as I was saying, make that appointment with a therapist. Do it now!
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:44 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll do that right after you see a plastic surgeon to take a few lanes off that freeway you call a nose; you afro wearing chicken luvin monkey.
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:09 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Poor ol loony Tonya. Feel better now? Sure you do. Even if you did give a poor imitation of Kola whose insults at least have some basis in reality. Oh - wait. That's right you don't deal with reality. And you're really becoming a bore. Where did I put my bug spray? Oh, here it is. Spritz-spritz! Begone, gnat girl!
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What's tha matter? fraid umma sting you? Get caught up tween dem big crusty red nigga lips.. make e'm bigger?

Try... to close for comfort....Blue veined monkey.

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 01:11 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gnats can't sting, dum-dum. They're just inocuous pests. Spritz-spritz-spritz.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 02:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thought that'll cool you. Self-hatin', wide nosed, fleshy lipped, Aunt Jamima! Greezy bug eyed monkey. Nappy watermellon eaten' Chimpanzee. Crusty blue veined gorrilla! Knuckle draggin ape...



Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 04:01 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're really not very good or original at this name-calling thing, lil tony. Your metaphors are mixed, and that should be aunt "Jemima" not "Jamima." Where is Kola when we need her? Oh well. zzzzzzzzzzz
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 05:04 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cuz youz a self-hatin nigga. That's why you think my metaphors are mixed. Ain't nothin mixed about a blue veined gorilla -- they come in all shades of ugly. See... you get off when people call you high yellow, mongrel, and house nigga 'cause for some idiotic reason you feel that places you above all the other ignorant, inane racist terms; that turns you on. It's never been my style to even utter some of the racial slurs I've expressed. But giving you a dose of your own twisted self-hate kinda makes my day. (lol) What can I say. Besides, whether it's Jemima or Jamomma, blue vein or black mud, you self-hating gorillas are all the same. Mongrels are just pimple faced albino monkeys.

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 05:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh give it up. I have no reason to hate myself. Haven't you heard? Colorism favors people like me, and it's obvious that this causes the misery which gives rise to your self hate. Maybe if you stop looking at yourself in the mirror you'll feel better. You're pitiful. The more bile you puke up, the more desperate you sound.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 05:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Colorism favors people like me..."

Uh-uh, not the ugly ones. Who ya kiddin'?


Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 06:09 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I guess your secret dream of having light skin wouldn't help you any cuz I can sure tell you're ugly. Your ugliness oozes through the computer, like slime. (But don't hate me cuz I'm beautiful. Poor lil ol tony. Go sit in the corner and read "The Bluest Eye.")
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 06:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...LOL!

Make no mistake, "The Bluest Eye" was written percisely for sistah's like you. Don't let the skin color fool you. That's your problem, through your ignorance, superiority complex, & confusion, you can't even comprehend where Toni was coming from.

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 06:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But I'm sure you identity with the pitiful main character in this book, or is that too complicated for you to figure out? Now, don't you have something better to do with your 31 year old self?? You need to get a life. I'm outta here.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 06:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way, I can roll out of bed first thing in the morning, and still look 100x more beautiful than you and ALL the women of your ilk did when y'all were half my age. No lie. I don't like to toot my own horn; but, hey... I got it like that.

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 09:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y don't both of ya stop being ugly!
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some people are just natural enemies, Yukio. And tonya can't help acting ugly, - if you get what I mean. LOL But I won't totally destroy her self esteem by dispelling the popular misconception about how people age. I won't tell her that it's all in the genes, not skin color.(She needs to take a look at 87 year-old high yellow Lena Horne who doesn't have a line on her face. Ditto 67-year-old Diane Carroll. Or even Halle Berry for that matter.)And, Man! I can just picture tonya, rolling out of the bed, all ashy, with grit in her eyes and dried slobber on her parched lips, breath smelling like turds, hair going every which way. EWE! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now, Yukio, because I adore you, if tonya responds to this, I will be good and ignore her.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

enough, enough...you two are the worst. I adore all of you, even Kola. I think as I get older, I am a bit offended by the language. Or is it my masculine sensibilties....it is probably all of the above...so I step back.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...LMAO!

I haven't seen Lena Horn lately; but I have seen Diane Carroll, and I agree, that women is just as gorgeous as she was all those years ago. And, yes, it does have a lot to do with genes. My mother, aunts, sisters, and female cousins, all look much younger than their ages. Even my grand & great granmother looked younger than their years before they passed. But I think it has a lot to do with how well you take care of yourself, too. Not smoking, drinking, getting enough water, and most importantly, IMO, using the right kind of skin care products. Many years ago, this older women told me that the skin one takes care of during her 20s and 30s will be the skin she inherits during middle age and beyond. So, again, I think a lot of it has to do with heredity.. but it also depends on how well one takes care of her skin before it's too late.

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

well, before it is too late...be nice to ya elders, sometimes...and I aint talkin about me, either...even though you often claim that my thinking is ol' fashioned
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Tonya
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 12:03 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynnique aint no elder. She's a cold-blooded rough neck. She'll kick in the throat for lookin' at her sideways. She'll step on your spleen if you come up short. She'll bite on the forehead if you don't get her number right. She's a hustler & a hoodlum. A loan shark & a pimp. A crack dealer & a crack head.
A jack of all trades...

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 10:09 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok....i gone!
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 02:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Um, that would be "Jill" of all trades, - with apologies to yukio. LMAO.
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Rustang
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 02:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought that a rough neck was an oil field worker.Say, Cynique, could you front me a couple grand until I can get back on my feet?:-)
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 02:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sure thing, Rustang. Just fork over the title to your car and sign on the dotted line. And if you don't own a car maybe I can take you on as a look-out for my crack house.
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Rustang
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 07:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No Problem, Cynique. How about this one?Is this something that you would have any use for?:-)
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 07:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because I feel that "the media" is rather corrupt, the article makes some relevant points--points I agree with because I have always been about inclusion rather than exclusion (which is not the human norm). However, I like to explore the complexity of these issues.

While there are various reasons for doing such--and reasons that I often disagree with, I think that individuals (generally) tend to gather and identify most with those whose "likeness" is visible. With that being said, if a black person owns a magazine or any other media outlet they (most likely) are going to cater to a black audience and not the general population. In America, because most of "the media" is owned by whites I think that they are only doing what comes naturally to them--identifying with their own visible likeness. Unfortunately, people treat "the media" like they are God--and they are not and that is where a lot of problems/issues surface. However, within a capitalistic system, I think that if blacks or any other non-white group of people owned most of "the media" we would see the physical reflection of that particular majority within marketing--which still wouldn't be right because there would still be exclusion and confusion.

On the flip side, there is always a choice to turn these images off (to a certain degree). I often ask myself why people don't exercise this right.

Definitely a complex issue.


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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 10:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moonsigns:

Are we trying to rewrite history? You treat the history of blacks and whites as mutually exclusive. This, I think, is to simplify "a complex issue." A significant part of the article expressed the fact that the "warping of the Black perspective was successful only after the most terrible and tortuous process of brainwashing over... centuries."

In this basic sense, to argue "that if blacks or any other non-white group of people owned most of 'the media' we would see the physical reflection of that particular majority within marketing" is to misunderstand and simplify "a complex issue."

In order for your theory to work, we would have to erase the brainwashing of black folk. Only then would your view make sense. In other words, we would have to rewrite history.
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 11:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Wow, Rustang! That restored Mustang is really cool. I'll take it, I'll take it! And if you default on your loan, I'll will immediately re-christen myself "Sally!" :-)
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Rustang
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 12:07 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, that's a 56 T-Bird, Cynique.:-)Here's something more like a Mustang.It's my 67 Shelby GT-350.Maybe this will be more to your liking.:-)
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Rustang
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 12:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But, back on topic for a moment.It would be easy to suppose that, if there were more black owned media outlets, there would consequently be a shift in the representations in these media outlets.I don't think that this would be the case, however.The media outlets respond to the same economic incentives any other business would.As long as there is a white majority of media consumers, then the images seen, veiwpoints expressed,etc.. will reflect that reality.If the product presented is not something that the majority of consumers want or need then they aren't buying.Advertising prices will drop, revenue sources begin to dry up, and that particular outlet goes broke and disappears.That part of the complex issue isn't really very complex at all.:-)If you don't cater to the whims of the herd, the herd goes to someone that will.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 01:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And why do people keep saying stupid shit like "just turn it off"? How easy is it to get kids (and adults, for that matter) to stop watching tv, listening to the radio, reading magazines, and playing with their computers? That's what will have to be done in order to "turn these images off." And lets not forget what images they see at school and when they're with their friends. Even if a parent limits tv, there is so much junk out there for kids to learn from. So, I really wish people would stop saying useless shit like that, just cuz they heard a childless Oprah, or some other, out of touch, pop psychology talking head repeat what he/she heard someone else say.

Tonya
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Nels
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 02:46 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique --

"Well, Nels, why don't you contribute some input instead of "sitting in the audience" waiting for other posters to entertain you???"

This is conversation, not entertainment. There's no harm in (sitting in the audience) for a while, especially when the threads you've initated jump started more than just talking smack.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 02:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also:

***In America, because most of "the media" is owned by whites I think that they are only doing what comes naturally to them--identifying with their own visible likeness.***

Well, Well, Well -- knock me over with a feather! When blacks support doing THE EXACT SAME THING, because it's "WHAT COMES NATURAL", we get accused of being crazy, hateful, hypocrites, irrational, discriminators, exclusionists, everything but children of god -- I think we've even been called racist. But when white people do it... well... "they're ONLY DOING WHAT'S 'NATURAL' to them." How can you blame them, right???

Talk about double standards...



Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 10:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya...there it is! It is NOT natural, especially in such a society as this...people of color have been in this country(how can we forget the native american population...only to name an SUV)before the US was the US, as Langston Hughes says. Instead of being natural...it is POWER not demographics!
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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 12:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rustang, I don't know how I could've made that mistake especially since back in the day when this car was not a classic, a guy who lived across the street from me had a T-bird that looked just like that!! But the Mustang is cool, too!

Nels: Huh?

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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 12:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How is natural defined? A duck comes here knowing how to swim; water is his natural habitat. Swimming is innate to him. The only thing that is natural to humans is what they are born with. Everything else is learned, and the environment plays a very influential role in how a person develops.All creatures learn to blend in with their surroundings in order to survive. Society sets the standards and it seems to me that it is not an aberration to mimic your surroundings. If blacks were the majority and whites the minority then whites would become inured in the mores of black society; so when blacks in America do the same thing isn't it about survival?
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 01:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, Yukio, I believe it is natural. I'd prefer to see my own visible likeness more than anyone else's; and I don't think there's anything unatural about that.
I wasn't diagreeing with Moonsigns -- I was just pointing out what a hypocrite she revealed herself to be. You're also right, though -- them being the most visible is about power; but how can you blame them for that -- if prefering to see your own likeness is natural and you have the power to make it happen, why not? Yeah' it would be nice if people would start sharing.. but we live in a world where if you give too much, you loose too much. Who knows what "too much" is.. so they're playing it safe.. & smart too.

We need to start admiting & taking responsibility for our own fuck-ups.
When someone is fighting you the best way they know how, you're laying on your back getting your ass whipped, complaining and hoping that the ass kicker will feel sorry for you, and when he does by turning you loose you give in to his demands... you lose. That Simple. We don't have any power beacause we haven't fought for any, especailly not since the 60s. We've gotten our ass whipped, gave in to the demands; so why the fuck are we complaining.

...Instead, we need to first understand that the physical scares of what they did to us is nothing compared to the psychological ones. Sometimes the aftermath, what takes place after the event, is a million times worse than the actual event. (Look at Katrina!) They've beaten us through the ground; and, as this author points out, managed to brainwash us to the point where we don't know up from down. They left scares on us that treatens to enslave us for the rest of eternity... but guess what? They did what they *HAD TO DO IN ORDER TO WIN.* Until I see black men & women seriously admitting that they have been brainwashed into doing what is unatural -- and until we start accepting realistic ways of doing something about it.. I ain't trying to hear shit about "the white man" -- It's time to get off your ass, do SOMETHING! They're winning -- they're doing what they're suppose to do; we're not.
The sad thing is, the *ONLY* thing we need to do in order to begin winning ourselves is "rewrite history", if you will, reverse the brainwashing.

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 04:53 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya: I have no comment regarding whether moonsigns believes or not that blacks are "being crazy, hateful, hypocrites, irrational, discriminators, exclusionists, everything but children of god" when they are really being "natural."

Cynique's logic is what I was going for. If we have been here for thousands of years, white folk aren't unfamiliar with us; if asians have been here since the 1870s...Mexicans, well what can you say? Much of the West Coast is Mexico! In consideration of all of these facts....yes facts, then is it "natural" that whites prefer their own reflection? This erases history and the choices that were made overtime. As I believe it, over centuries, choices were made, over and over again, and again, and again, and again, so that now...whiteness is a standard of beauty AND that these choices were perpetrated through power and discrimination, as the article delineates.

If racism and labor seizure and exploitation of free labor was not the intent of the US then discussions of multiculturalism would have been part of the national discourse this country was socalled "discovered"! It is only the last 50 years that the US has needed us, for who is it that man's the US overseas...po white trash, niggas, spics, and poor asians (yes they exist!)It would not have taken until the COld War when the US tried to solicit the resources and loyalty of socalled third world countries away the Soviet Union...if these were natural! How can you talk about power with addressing how it has operated for centuries?
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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 07:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...it think I meant hundreds of years...
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 02:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***In consideration of all of these facts....yes facts, then is it "natural" that whites prefer their own reflection?***

You can be "familiar" with something/someone and still prefer your reflection.

I'm familiar wth my dog, love him to death, think he's the cutest thing in the world; but, still, I prefer my own reflection.... I feel the same way about white, Asian and Hispanic people, too.

It depends on what you mean by "familiar" and to what degree you are talking about. I think it's easier for us to understand the differences and degrees when we view people & things as they are - a body, one....

Humans are one. Society is one. Hispanics are one. I am one, ect..... I am much more "familiar" with myself than I am with another *one*; thus, I love & prefer myself a great deal more than I do other ones... unless.. "other ones" and I have become *one*, which only happens through birth and/or culture....

Black people, like others, are one in both ways.. through birth and through culture. What makes us different from other ones, however, are our very unique physical appearance (unique birth) and our very unique experiences (unique culture)....

Our exceptionally distinct uniqueness is also what bonds us together.. much more than any other group, other ones; therefore making us familiar with each other to a much greater degree than we are with them, they're with us, and perhaps, they're with each other....

...I am familiar with white people 'cause through acculturation we are one. But I am familiar with black people to a much greater degree because through a unique birth, a unique culture, and a unique bond, we are a unique one.

***If racism and labor seizure and exploitation of free labor was not the intent of the US then discussions of multiculturalism would have been part of the national discourse this country was socalled "discovered"!***

I don't disagree that that is true. I disagree that it is strategically wrong. They did what they had to do for those they're most familiar with.

Tonya
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 02:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...Clarification: I am familiar with white people 'cause through BIRTH and acculturation we are one. But I am familiar with black people to a much greater degree because through a unique birth, a unique culture, and a unique bond, we are a unique one.
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Yukio
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 05:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya: I hear you, BUT respectfully disagree. Natural, as I see it, explicitly pertains to that which is biologically inherent. We can see that people can embrace multicultural notions of culture and we can see people embrace monocultural notions of culture. This country has done the latter....in the midst of various groups, socalled races, etc....in this case, as I see it at least, they have made decision--which implies a choice, which implies that it is not natural--to brainwash folk with white supremacist cultural, symbols, and very basic knowledge...
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 07:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's Nature Vs. Nurture.... And scientists have been arguing for years about what part, and how much of our behavior is the result of nature vs. nurture. Last I heard, the jury was still out. Point is, you don't know if, how much, or which parts of our behavior is "biologically inherent" -- neither do I. But I can say, with a great deal of certainty, what is natural human behavior.

...Making decisions/choices is natural human behavior --

some would even argue that it's "biologically inherent." :-)

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 08:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so that white people who do not prefer their own reflection (assuming that all white people, or people for that matter, take ownership of their color as belonging to them)are not natural?

OK, but disagree....adieu!
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 11:09 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Human nature is measured by what's normal. 3 percent (I think; Don't quote me) is considered normal for interracial unions. Anything more than that would be considered abnormal.. unnatural human behavior.

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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 12:06 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hmmmm....i don't believe in normality...i do believe in cultural norms, however. To believe in the former and not the latter can get cha killed! Anyways, secondly, are we talking about human nature...is there such a thing? Lets look at human nature through human history..

If so, then normality is not quantifiable, is it? It is only recently in human history, maybe the last 500, that the notion of race has had in significance...the interracial unions that we heap and haw about were the inter-tribal, inter-nationality, inter-clan, etc...all of these categories of differentiation were, at some point, the "norm" of their day, so this business about "human nature" is quite presentist, ie view the present as if it was the same in the past.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 01:02 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excuse me Yukio.

But it has been proven that when people within their own group see themselves (and their group) as Whole and Healthy and have not been conditioned to covet outsiders......as was the case before Media made the world "Global".....upwards of only 3% of any said group TOPS was willing to marry out of their own group...and almost always did so as "peace treaty", etc. between their tribe and another tribe.

No sociologist or person with any COMMON SENSE would dare claim that what's going on in the U.S. between People of Color and WHITES (and at the outrageous "rates") is in anyway "normal".

There is CLEARLY an "axus of inferiority" at work here.

And it comes from CONDITIONING.

The media is making one set characteristic ("anglo-caucasoid") the Global Norm by bombarding everyone with that one image...so that it becomes a competition to achieve parity with those traits present in that image.

At no time in history (other than the Moors, who are now extinct---and during Cleopatra's rule of Egypt "under Cesar's dictate") did any people on earth so willingly and in such huge numbers choose anything but their own kind.

Things were NOT the same in the past.

You could step your foot in Asia or Africa right now would soon be met with the past alright.

Rather than acknowledge that something's wrong---too many of us like to make EXCUSES for why it's "O.K."

Which is how the straightening comb and so many other like-pathologies went unchallenged and tore the integrity of the people apart (and continues to do so).

This is NOT normal---

just like 4 million black women with Blond hair flowing from their scalps is NOT normal....and we do our people a disservice when we cowardly make up excuses for not seeing the "cancer" of our people.

Black men (descendents of Africa--a continent of glorious dark skinned people) being attracted only to women who look nothing like their mothers is NOT normal. And I'm talking about "dark people" PREFERING to be or be with "compromised shades" is NOT normal. Which is the MAJORITY.

How can you ever help your people if you're the one feeding their denial and encouraging their psychosis....just because it was easier to do nothing.





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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, what's "normal" is certainly a debatable point. To me, it is normal for a stronger force to dominate a weaker force, and it is normal for the weaker force,in order to gain mobility, to respond to this by trying to infiltrate that which is oppressing it. This is nature and nurture at work. Human beings have a natural instinct to survive and the nurture of their environment influences them to adapt to their surroundings. It is abnormal to go against the flow and make oneself vulnerable to danger. Rebellion is not normal. It is the abnormal action of rebels who seek to overturn the normal status quo, and seize the control which will enable them to become the dominate force. I have always subscribed to the survival of the fittest theory.These rules of the jungle are applicable in a dog-eat-dog world where the primitive instincts of humans manifest themselves in the ongoing quest to survive and thrive.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 02:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynnique, what you are describing sounds more like evolution, not nature vs. nuture, a behavioral science. Yes, species adapt to their surroundings in order to survive, which leads to their evolving. But you said yourself... that requires force..... What "force" is leading us to commit racial/cultural suicide?

If this "force" is an imaginary one, that would mean that the species are not "adapting" to anything; it's undergoing change (by actively participating in it's destruction) for imaginary reasons.

That, my dear, is not evolution. It's insanity.

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 04:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The force is not an imaginary one. It's real in the embodiment of the movers and shakers within the majority population who are instrumental in controlling the members of the weaker minority population, and society reflects this. And the primal instinct to survive is not evolutionary; it's instinctive and is still alive and well in the present.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 06:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's bullshit. The "movers" and "shakers" ain't worried about your black ass. The only thing he's worried about is getting his, which is yours. Stop focusing on how he "moves" and how he "shakes" and worry about reclaiming yours. That's how you end up on top!

"The white man" is not a threat; we're a threat to ourselves!

...There's your "force."

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 06:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't agree. I think what you say is idiotic and makes no sense. Who is running the show in this country? Blacks sure ain't. The black individual gets ahead by circumventing The System, something I have always maintained. The black race is still at the mercy of institutionalized racism and that is because corporate America is overwhelmingly white. We have one black senator in the Senate, and one black woman fronting for the president. Where is the power??? What planet are you existing on?? Or is there anything for blacks to "re-claim" because America has never belonged to us. So, if you aren't ready to organize a revolution and overthrow the government, then you're just talking a lot of smack.
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 07:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Next time you want to get on your soap box and go into your rant, go to the inner cities and do your preaching. Go tell the ghettoites to shape up or ship out. And if they react to you the way they react to Bill Cosby, maybe you'll see how ambiguous you are.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 07:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Within the last 3 decades, has any of that prevented *you* from getting a job, going to college, or putting your kids through college?

***We have one black senator in the Senate...***

How many young black men/women have aspirations of being a senetor? How many blacks ran for senate? And how many of us voted?

***We have.... one *black woman* fronting for the president.***

That's suppose to serve as an example of racism?

***corporate America is overwhelmingly white.***

While prisons are overwhelmingly black and college admissions for black men are at an all time low.

***Where is the power???***

Where is the effort???

Tonya

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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 07:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...And if you have evidence that the black middle class have given any more effort.. feel free to state that too.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 08:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"middle class has given..."
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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 10:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kola excuse me, but my comments had nothing to do with the issue of interracial unions. Tonya brought it up! My response, and you clearly missed this, was interrogating the assumption that anything is natural in the first place...
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 10:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What are you talking about, Tonya???? Didn't I just say that black individuals can circumvent The System? And no need to cite examples to me about the possibilities that exist for blacks people in this counttry. I've always claimed this, but that still doesn't blind me to the "glass ceiling" factor in regard to race. Suddenly you, who are always ranting about colorism and white supremacy and black self-hate, have turned into this pollyanna who thinks that everything will be peachy keen if blacks just do right. Make up your mind.
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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 09:02 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How is getting a job "circumventing" "The Sysrem"? How is going to college "circumventing" "The System"? Is "The System" preventing you from doing something. Has it prevented *YOU* within the last 3 decades? If so, explain.

***Suddenly you, who are always ranting about colorism and white supremacy and black self-hate, have turned into this pollyanna who thinks that everything will be peachy keen if blacks just do right. Make up your mind.***

I always "rant" to black people about colorism, white supremacy, and black self-hate cuz those are the self destructive fuckers that affect me. I don't give a fuck about the boogie man. He can't do shit to me; besides.. that mutha fucker is doing what he should be doing. He's suppose to be a white supremacist! What the fuck am *I* gonna say to *him*? How foolish of me would it be to tell "The White Man" how to handle his business? I'm trynna take a course from him! Teach me how to be a black supremacist, daddy!

...Cuz that's how you win!

...It worked for you, didn't it?!?!?

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 11:49 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You and I are are not really on the same track in this discussion, Tonya. Ask your questions to a black person who can't get a job that pays a living wage or who went to school and didn't get an education that prepared them for college or who after getting a job couldn't get a promotion. Those who circumvent The System are those whose chance circumstances allow them to avoid the built-in pitfalls of it. Of course, white people encounter these problems also, but they still have a headstart on blacks once they get their foot in the door and for those who do get a foot in the door, the sky's the limit. But blacks who manage to negotiate the obstacle course of The System will still be subjected to the nuances of racism; there are certain doors which will never be open to them. But this doesn't prevent those blacks who have bettered themselves from leading fulfilling lives. This is just the way it is in America. As for me, I don't have a college degree and I don't have a profession and I am not rich. To some degree I circumvented the system because a looong time ago, my parents chose a good place to raise their children in and they passed on to me their love of reading and the ability to find humor in everything, all of which enabled me to be a survivor.
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 04:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio,

In my first post I wrote that I believe the media is rather corrupt--and the reasons people (generally) tend to "gather" and "identify" most with those whose "likeness" is "visible", are reasons that I often disagree with. And in this capitalistic system, I feel that whatever racial group owns "the media" will be the group most represented. In this case, it's obvious-- whites own most of the media and that is the "image" we see more often.


YUKIO:
"In order for your theory to work, we have to erase the brainwashing of black folk."


MOONSIGNS:
Yukio, I disagree because I think that mankind, in general, is flawed, self-centered and power hungry. Blacks and every other non-white group have the same potential to have a "divide and conquer" mentality as some whites have and have had. History does not have to be rewritten to prove that there are individuals within every color/cultural group that are corrupt and will exploit others for their own profit/benefit--whatever profit/benefit that may be.





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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 06:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***Those who circumvent The System are those whose chance circumstances allow them to avoid the built-in pitfalls of it.***

And, those who don't would be better off blaming their parents, families, members of their own communities, those from the upper classes, leaders, Bishops, churches ect., ect..... Poor whites who "make it" may have it easier, but, still, those are the people that's helping them.... Blame our own (support) "system" -- it's time we start blaming ourselves.

***Of course, white people encounter these problems also, but they still have a headstart on blacks***

So we gotta work harder. We've known this for how long?

***...there are certain doors which will never be open to them.***

That is simply not true. And the more it gets said, the more damaging it becomes to those who believe it (especially young people). The color of ones skin DOES NOT prevent him/her from living her dream. She must sacrifice and work harder.. yes, but, if she really wants it, she can have her dream.

...Let's stop trying to prevent others from realizing their dreams just because we haven't reached ours. That's not keeping it real -- it's a bold face lie, it's mean, and it's spiteful.

****my parents chose a good place to raise their children in and they passed on to me their love of reading and the ability to find humor in everything, all of which enabled me to be a survivor.****

Then why not pass some of that inspiration.. and a version of that love on to others.... Stop telling us we can't make it; it's not true.

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 07:04 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

moonsigns:

I responded to:

In this case, it's obvious-- whites own most of the media and that is the "image" we see more often.

And:

I think that if blacks or any other non-white group of people owned most of "the media" we would see the physical reflection of that particular majority within marketing...

I don't quite see the relationship between these comments and capitalist corruption. Whatever the case, let me return to my own comments, for what I have said has nothing to do with divide and conquer. And, logically speaking, your divide and conquer argument does make sense if you are claiming that the group that controls media will project their own likeness in same media...explain the relation, please.

My point is, if blacks have embraced white culture to such a degree that they reject themselves, as the article suggests, then if blacks were in control of the media, you would still see similar images, as you do in rap, r&b, etc...videos, light skinned women! Thus in order to see a representative picture of black people you would have to erase slavery, colonialism, etc...economic, political, and cultural systems that created black folks penchant for whiteness.
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 07:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll leave that to you, Tonya, since that's what you believe. I'm done.

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