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Arioso_hum
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Post Number: 32
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Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 03:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

THIS IS A REPRINT OF A RECENT NEWS STORY. My of you are not aware of the current riots and unrest that has been happening in France (yes, that France!). Read this and see the sweeping hands of time. The revolution will not be televised but it will be on the net!

Youths' poverty, despair fuel violent unrest in France

Islamic underclass vents frustration
By Colin Nickerson, Globe Staff | November 6, 2005

CLICHY-SOUS-BOIS, France -- Mahmoud Khabou, 20, the jobless son of Algerian immigrants, knows little of the world beyond the concrete housing projects that rise in bleak rows barely an hour's subway ride from the Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, and other grand monuments of Paris.

But he knows who his heroes are. ''Osama bin Laden and Rodney King," he said, referring to the Al Qaeda leader and the African-American whose videotaped beating by Los Angeles police in 1991 spawned massive racial riots.

''One because he gives pride back to the Muslims," the young man asserted as he and a trio of friends stood near the charred ruins of a carpet shop. ''The other because he was just a poor man, a 'nobody man' of color, but he caused a great city to burn."

The fires this time are in France. Arson attacks, running battles with police, random gunfire, and looting over the past 10 nights have spread from this dingy Paris suburb to dozens of other predominantly Muslim slums, where religious fundamentalism competes with drug pushers for the attention of alienated youths.

In an alarming turn early today, police said the unrest had reached the French capital, with more than a dozen vehicles torched.

The spiraling violence and the inability of authorities to bring it under control have shaken France and stunned neighboring nations, many with restive Muslim populations of their own. An increasing worry is that the sparks might ignite similar unrest elsewhere on the continent.

''There are deep and dangerous fault lines in Europe," said Manzoor Moghal, chairman of the Muslim Forum, an organization of Islamic groups in Britain. ''What is happening in France could trigger copycat reactions elsewhere in Europe. This is a real fear."

In an effort to restore order, French officials yesterday added more police to the thousands already on riot duty at flashpoints outside Paris and other centers. More than a thousand residents in one battered suburb, Aulnay-sous-Bois, joined in a peace march, holding aloft a sign declaring ''Non" to violence as they filed down a street past burned-out hulks of automobiles and smoldering shops.

But hit-and-run arsonists continued to strike. In Achères, west of Paris, a nursery school was torched. Fresh violence also hit far-flung corners of France, from Rouen in Normandy and Bordeaux in the southwest, to Strasbourg near the German border.

Still, the capital region was bearing the brunt, with police rapid response units whipsawing through traffic, their caterwauling sirens reverberating through a damp Parisian night.

Islamic leaders and social commentators acknowledge that most of the looters and arsonists are Muslims of Arabic or black African heritage. But they insist that root causes of the violence are economic, not religious -- even though the rioters often use slogans of radical fundamentalism.

Moghal stressed in an interview: ''The crisis comes from poverty and feelings of powerlessness among so many Muslims [in Europe]. The crisis is not caused by Islam, but by people who turn to dangerous ideas and desperate measures in their hopelessness."

France has the largest Islamic population in Western Europe, about 5 million, many of whom dwell in communities beset by high unemployment, savage crime, blighted housing, and bad schools.

Striking a more conciliatory tone after days of tough talk, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy acknowledged yesterday that Muslim grievances may be rooted in real social problems, but warned that violence has to cease.

''Once the crisis is over, everyone will have to understand there are a certain number of injustices in some neighborhoods," he said. ''We are trying to be firm and avoid any provocation. We have to avoid any risk of explosion."

Analysts said the situation may force the French government to acknowledge that grievances of the huge and growing Muslim underclass are festering in a society famously dedicated to ''liberte, egalite, fraternite."

Unemployment in Islamic communities is estimated to be at 30 percent, more than three times the national average. Islamic leaders and social analysts say that racial and religious discrimination are rampant. Jobs available to even French-born Muslims, they say, tend to be menial positions.

''These people in these places, they feel they are not treated as full citizens or even as full human beings," said Ahmed El Keiy, a commentator with a French radio station BEUR-FM. ''When you have desperate poverty, you have anger. And when anger reaches a point, you have explosions."

Critics of French policies have few hard numbers to support claims of racism because the government does not keep the kind of social statistics that are routine in other nations.

France's official line is that equality is so intrinsic to the national ethos that it would be wrong to track the economic situation of individual ethnic groups. The government closely monitors educational levels among the population as a whole, for example, but refuses to study performance along racial or religious lines.

''The state is blind to minority groups, saying they can't exist in a society where everybody is equal," said Sebastian Roche, a political scientist. ''So rage builds. It is poverty and discrimination that turns them toward Islamic [fundamentalism]."

In France, about 70 percent of immigrants and their second- and third-generation offspring are Arabs from Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia; recent years have also seen influxes of black Africans from former French colonies even farther south.

One significant change, is that until a decade or so ago, immigrants proudly referred to themselves as ''French Arabs," ''French Algerians," ''French Moroccans," and so on. Today, in a sign of alienation, they typically call themselves ''Muslims," taking religion, often the radical brand, as their strongest identity.

This is true elsewhere on the continent that once defined Christendom but that is now home to the largest population of Muslims outside the classic Islamic world.

Estimates vary, but somewhere between 15 million and 20 million Muslims make their homes in the 25 nations of the European Union. There are about 3 million Muslims in the United States.

But the Muslim face of Europe is largely invisible in the old capitals and picturesque cobble streets most visited by tourists. Throughout the continent, the majority of Muslims reside in densely populated extensions of urban centers that range from the merely anonymous -- immigrant neighborhoods in Germany, for example -- to the outright horrendous, such as the shantytowns outside Rome and other Italian cities where thousands of illegal immigrants, often Africans, are crammed into makeshift hovels lacking electricity and water.

''European countries have transferred their immigrant problems to the suburbs," said Marwan Abou-Tamm, a Lebanon-born specialist on issues of racial integration who was raised in France and now lives in Germany. ''People have been isolated in bad neighborhoods with poor schools and not many opportunities, with no one caring what they feel or what are their problems."

French officials, however, have mostly blamed the violence of recent days on drug dealers, street gangs, and -- in Interior Minster Sarkozy's controversial characterization -- ''scum."

The spate of fire bombings, street battles, sniper fire, and attacks on citizens, has caused dozens of injuries, but no deaths. Thousands of cars, hundreds of shops and scores of warehouses, as well as police stations, medical clinics, and a Jewish synagogue have been hit by firebombs. At least 30 French communities have suffered serious street violence.

In Clichy-sous-Bois, despair hangs as heavily in the air as the sour smell of smoke from gutted cars and torched businesses.

''People are under pressure, they feel the anger of no jobs and no chance to improve their lives until finally -- boom! -- it just explodes," said Abdel Rahman Bouhout, head of the Muslim Cultural Association in Clichy-sous-Bois.

The violence exploded in this suburb Oct. 27 after two teenagers -- Ziad Benna, 17, and his friend Bouna Traore, 15 -- were electrocuted in a power substation into which they clambered to evade police. Matters were made worse when police battling rioters fired tear gas into a local mosque where more than 700 people were gathered for prayers.

French newspapers have carried speculative reports that ''hidden hands" -- meaning Islamic radical groups such as Al Qaeda -- are orchestrating the violence. Inhabitants of Clichy-sous-Bois scoffed at the suggestion.

''There's no hidden hand -- very ridiculous! -- just the fully visible discrimination that Muslims face everyday," said Zoubidia, 29, as she nervously led her two small boys past cordons of riot police guarding a fire station. She declined to give her last name.

''Just allow us the dignity of good jobs and a chance to make better lives," she said. ''Then the French will have nothing to fear from 'dangerous Muslims.' "

Petra Krischok of the Globe's Berlin bureau contributed to this report.


Rondall
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 04:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rondall,

This has been going on in France and Germany for the last 30 years. It's really not new.

I have very mixed feelings, naturally, because of what Muslims and "Arab blacks" do against the regular Black Africans.

A very monumental issue that still gets no press.

But I will root for the Black Africans to be treated better in those countries, although----really---I don't know why they even go to Europe.

So much could be done at home with Africa itself, if only Blacks would stop looking for the answer on the OUTSIDE

and focus on the riches they already have on the inside.






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Chrishayden
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 03:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rondall:

Kola is right. James Baldwin reported that when he was in France in the 50's and 60's during the struggle in Algeria they were snatching Algerians off the street, killing them and torturing them.

He reported that he was warned if he said anything about it the French would throw him out of the country.

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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 04:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Black Americans are ALWAYS treated differently from Africans in Europe.

At many of the French dance clubs---Americans (incl. blacks) are allowed in. But NOT AFRICANS. Only American Blacks.

It's always been that way. Ditto the Arab Muslim world, which is why AAs love Arabs and we Africans and know better.

The Arabs cater to AAs, because as Americans--they have Power and money. Influence.

And the French will embrace the Mulatto Algerian....but will spit on the Black or Muslim Algerian.







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Anunaki3600
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Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 03:32 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As Malcolm X would say "The Barn Yard Birds have come home to roost". This was bound to happen sooner or later. I lived in Paris a couple of years ago and expected this because I noticed how the French treated their poor folk from Africa. The French Right Wing were burning hostels where poor new immigrants from West Africa lived a couple of months ago. This week Poor second/third generation immigrants are burning France down.
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Blkamericanking
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Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 06:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, i really don't care too much for arabs but i am sure there are a lot of arabs who are not racist against blacks.

Kola,
I am just curious but, which arab countries cater to Black Americans?

I have heard that Black Americans who travel to Europe are treated better than the Africans, but when the Africans come to Amercia they are treated better than Black Americans. Seems to me, it's a way of causing division and hatred between us.
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Blaklioness
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Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 11:47 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blkamericanking:

It's ALWAYS about causing division...we get played one against the other.


Chrishayden:

Wasn't Baldwin supposed to have been enchanted with Europe because of its supposed contrast in social policies to American ones?
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Renata
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Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 04:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found all of this quite interesting. Even more interesting, MANY if not most of Arab Muslim men you meet in Atlanta tend to be married to FRENCH women. Interesting.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 05:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Renata...

...notice that the downtrodden Black men who castigate "the white devil man"...are the surest ones to be found chasing white women.

Oppressed males usually idolize their Oppressor's woman and abuse their own.




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Arioso_hum
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 08:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

I find your statements interesting and not without a resonation of truth. I agree that some human psyches (not just Blacks or the oppressed, and nor just males) tend to seek a mate that empowers their place in society. This predilection is most probable a part of the ethos or objectification of certain people, or characteristic in a given society. There are a myriad of examples that are currently in effect.

But I digress, the point I was making when I posted this was not alluding to the fact that this was new. I am very aware of the civil unrest that has existed within Europe and Asia. I am also aware of the mistreatment many foreign nationals are subjected to throughout the world. What I find most interesting about this particular case is the under lying fear that this movement may become organized and centralized. Hence, the prevailing state of trepidation that the rest of Europe is beginning to feel is quite different than in the past.

With the advent of technology as well as the internet organization and communication is much more viable than in the past. You can post a webpage in French and then translate it into almost any language in the world...instantly.

I am intrigued to see how the uprising will play out. Historically these things tend to mimic a volcano. They rise, they subside, and then they rise a bit higher, and subside not as well...leading to that inevitable eruption which constitutes change.


Rondall
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Libralind2
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 09:10 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From Time Magazine Nov 14.2005

People like me — the descendants of immigrants, whether Arab, black or Asian — are turning to our roots and embracing our heritage, just the opposite of what our parents did when they arrived. My grandparents, for example, who came to France from Algeria to live, work and build a better life, accepted the role of guest. They did all they could not just to fit in, but to become invisible. Calling attention to themselves usually meant trouble — endless ID and visa checks from police, racist remarks and insults — so they avoided that. They tried as much as possible to integrate, and in doing so shut away their customs, language and heritage.
I certainly don't belittle their choice. But people of my generation are not shy about embracing their heritage, and far from seeking invisibility we're standing up to denounce the prejudice and injustice we face. In my case, Islam is an enormous part of who I am, just as being French is. The two aren't in opposition, or even mutually exclusive. Yet when you hear the debate in France today, you'd swear they must be.

The people who live in projects like those where last week's riots raged are treated as second-class citizens. We have less access to the rights and services of the republic — schools are run down; job opportunities are remote. What we do have is a supermarket, a mall for low-cost shops, a few fast-food joints and maybe a movie complex. That's it. The idea is to create just enough diversion so we stay where we are. The message is: Don't come in to mix with the people in the city centers. That's what the police tell you when they stop you on a bus coming into town: "You have no business in the center? Then you have no reason to be there. Go back where you belong."

Before Sept. 11, I would have said this was a kind of residual racism. The problems people had with us were due to our ethnicity, our skin color. Today, with many young people returning to religion as they start searching for their own identities, faith is becoming the difference that's most often pointed out. I'm not just a black guy or an Arab anymore; I'm a Muslim. And that's a code word for alien, someone who's determined not to fit in.

But I was born and raised in France. I've been a citizen since birth. How much more "French" can I be? And there are many more people like me, not just Muslims but blacks, Asians and South Asians. It's time for the French to reject these outdated labels. And it's time for minorities to reject the cult of victimization, too. Things aren't perfect. There are a lot of problems. Those problems exploded last week, unleashing the long-held resentment of people who feel unwanted, scorned and swept into the margins like so much trash. To change that, the gap between the banlieue and the rest of France must be bridged. We need to make peace with the things that make us different. I'm French, I'm Muslim, and there are millions like me. We live here, and we're not going anywhere. So let's start getting used to it.

Médine, 22, is a Muslim rapper from Le Havre. His latest record is Jihad: The Greatest Struggle Is Within Yourself
LiLi
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Roxie
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 09:52 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

--Oppressed males usually idolize their Oppressor's woman and abuse their own.---

Sounds just like Aaron MCGruder and that Raliegh professor!:-)
When will their confused kind die out?
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Roxie
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 09:58 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

---But he knows who his heroes are. ''Osama bin Laden and Rodney King,"[.......]

'One because he gives pride back to the Muslims,"[.....]

'The other because he was just a poor man, a 'nobody man' of color, but he caused a great city to burn." ---

qUESTION: Why does this man admire the BLACK PERSON for being (as usual)THE VICTIM?
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 02:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because I knew Osama Bin Laden, I just find myself dazed as I read how people view him.

And Osama is/was hideously RICH, Roxie. He used ot pay the bills of the government of Sudan out of his own wallet!!! What the hell are you talking about poor?

And of "color"---God, if you only knew his opinion about having color.

You are someone who REALLY NEEDS to read my memoir when it comes out in Jan.



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Blkamericanking
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 05:03 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, what is Osama's opinion about having color and does he have any black ancestry?
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 05:47 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, his grandmother was a kind of black.

His best friend, Isam is also black (although, he is Arab and would kill you for calling him black--but darker than me). I was the mistress to Isam's father Hasan, originally.

And when you see Osama, close up in person, he has a lot of "black" in him. His hair and face---especially when he was younger and healthier, he looked blacker.

Osama's father only had ONE child by Osama's mother.....because he came out dark.

His father had like 20 wives and had tons of kids with them all.





*They see the black race as "inferior" and something that one should strive to EVOLVE from.

Like many Arab men, Osama felt that black women should be "sterilized" so that he could enjoy fucking them...without bringing any new monkeys into the world.

Which he actually said to me once.





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Kola_boof
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 05:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Osama has two "black" children (25 in all).

He has nothing to do with the black ones, though.

Their mother was a mistress.





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Blkamericanking
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 07:22 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, i think it is such a shame for arabs to hate blacks or blackness, since most dark arabs look like they are mixed with black. They might as well hate themselves.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 03:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But don't you get it Blkamericanking.

They DO hate themselves!

Go to Thailand and Korea and see all the school kids getting their eyes operated on to un-slant them and skin bleaching their skin to be whiter like a Japanese (which is the highest of the Asians).

White supremacy is global.

ANYONE who is "with pigment" is part of the system of exterminating blackness.

Which is why I take a hardline hardcore OPPOSITE position on purpose.

Of course, I get on everybody's nerves, but somebody has got to create a new STANDARD that celebrates blackness.



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Blkamericanking
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Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 03:37 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

I understand what you're saying sis. White people have promoted themselves all over this earth. They have brainwashed people into thinking white is superior and black is inferior.

I am sick of seeing so many Asians marrying whites, simply because they feel whites are superior. But, for some reason i am starting to see a lot of Asians and blacks together either as friends or spouses. I think worldwide white supremacy is about to come to an end.
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Roxie
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

--And Osama is/was hideously RICH, Roxie. He used ot pay the bills of the government of Sudan out of his own wallet!!! What the hell are you talking about poor? --


Kola,
I was quoting the guy in the article. And he was referring to RODNEY KING as poor, NOT OSAMA.
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Afroamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 12:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, I don't believe Arabs treat Black Americans anybetter than they treat other Black people! In general I don't think Black Americans have much contact with Arab people just like they don't most Africans.

The average Afro-American vacations in the Carribean NOT northern Africa!!!

If they did have the slighest "idea" or "Knowledge" about Arabs they'd think differently of their so call "Fellow people of color"....
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 03:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Afroamerican.

You've never heard of Black Americans coming back from EGYPT or other Arab countries and reporting how wonderfully they were treated???

You never watched the movie "MALCOLM X"?


Let me tell you something---

everytime a Dinka or ME or a Black African gets up to tell our story (like on a recent radio interview I did for instance)----Black Americans start calling in talking about how good they were treated when they went to Egypt or visited Jordan.

Look at Michael Jackson (living with Arabs now)....Maya Angelou lived in Egypt for 8 years and said the Arabs treated her like a Queen; she even had a black as midnight Sudanese maid!

I guess you don't think the FRENCH treat Black Americans any better than any other Africans either. Is that the case?

Despite the riots going on.



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Afroamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

KOLA,

All the people you name are FILTHY FUCKING RICH!!!

Of course if you got Michael Jackson or Maya Angelou in your neighborhood you'd treat them "nice". Hell they might decide to donate some money to a local school or something........

A poor AA has no access to Egypt or any other Arab country to make these claims on how "good" these people are too them.

Again, I like talking about AVERAGE people! Not American movie stars. Average Black Americans are not vacationing in Arab countries. Its the

1.famous
2. or Weatlhy ones

I do not think your claims are substanial! They more like broad GENERALIZATIONS!
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Afroamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think as in all countries : MONEY TALKS!!!

If you're a poor AA, then you're up shit creek too!
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof

Post Number: 905
Registered: 02-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Then if my claims are unsubstantial

....why don't you BLACK AMERICANS stop claiming that I'm just prejudiced and unfair towards ARABS?

Why don't you stop taking the side of Arabs (because they're MUSLIMS) and start listening to and caring about the Black Africans when they tell you outrageous stories about the middle east and the Arabs.

Francis Bok, Mende Nazer and all others who have told the truth have been accused of being prejudiced against "our brown brothers".



ALSO:

You and I are basically making the same claim.

I have always said to those Black Americans, for instance the journalist who wrote a news article in the Washington Post about how well she was treated......that they only want your tourist money and pull in Washington.

Not your everyday folk.

You're saying the same thing I'm saying.










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Blkamericanking
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Blkamericanking

Post Number: 104
Registered: 08-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 05:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

I was reading somewhere that Michael Jackson was thinking about buying a place, somewhere in the middle east. I am wondering why would he wanna live around Arabs. Personally, i think Arabs only like the rick and powerful Black Americans and actually use them to try and spread Islam. If some Black Americans wanna be dumb enough to think Arabs are their brown brothers and sisters, just let them go ahead and be SELLOUTS!! We don't need or want blacks like them in our community anyway.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep

Post Number: 777
Registered: 01-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am wondering why would he wanna live around Arabs.

hmmm...a land full of dark haired, olive skinned young boys, away from the US justice system...yeah, I wonder, too
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Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang

Post Number: 196
Registered: 04-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 05:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Surely you're not trying to suggest that the king of pop would engage himself in anything inappropriate, Yvette.:-)
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep

Post Number: 778
Registered: 01-2005

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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rustang, who me? It's like one comedian said: "He tried to tell y'all back in the day that he was 'bad'!" LOL

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