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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 748
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 07:37 pm: | 
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Darren Hutchinson (law prof, American U) has a thoughtful post about some comments Spike Lee recently made that had shades of Bill Cosby's comments about the Black poor:
http://www.blackprof.com/archives/2005/11/spike_dubois_lee.html
If you were reading 'round these parts when the original whole brouhaha broke out (+ Dyson'r response) you may remember that I did not particularly care for the way Dr. Cosby delivered his remarks, nor the wisdom of someone whose house appeared to be so out of order preachin to other folks about morality and decorum.
With these comments by Spike, I'm not so sure it's the same animal. I may try to dig up the complete text of his comments. Until then, I'll reserve judgement.
And I'll also admit that I see Spike as being my generational peer (we're both in our 40s) so maybe I'm willing to give him more of a break than Cosby. Dunno. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 822
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:27 pm: |
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I agree with Spike Lee's comments.
And like before---
while I didn't totally like the TONE that Bill Cosby took, I most certainly appreciated that he did the "fatherly" thing and took a STAND of some kind and raised hell in some way.
One thing that I do NOT envy at "African-Americans".....is that they make too many excuses for why they can't be PRESENT--why they can't have SET STANDARDS---why they can't have a community that's solely THEIRS and not open for the whole world to just rip off and dirty up and go on about their business.
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
But they're worried about being "right".
NOTHING is right and NO ONE is right.
Never has been.
MIGHT makes right. And that's why we're getting the shit beat out of us by these Hip Hop HOO-fu niggers and their New Nigger Ettiquette.
The children run the grown folks.
It's just a damned travesty.
There's TOO MUCH that's wrong for us to shut down Bill Cosby and Spike Lee....all because Michael E. Dyson want's "understanding".
Children NNNEEEEEEED to be raised and they need discipline.
This whole situation is out of control, because suddenly the AAs have money and material possessions.....and they THINK that's success.
Having "things" and not your children, not your village.
This is a disgrace! A fucking disgrace!
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 823
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:30 pm: |
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And BTW---I absolutely love Michael Dyson and I loved his book. He's a hero to me.
But we need BALANCE.
And I'm a mother of two black males, so I can't support this self-destructive shit just because it's cool.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 782
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 09:18 pm: |
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I think somebody (I can't remember who) brought this question up the other day. Does anyone remember black kids saying that the middle class, culturally black character "Steve Irkle" who was in love with a culturally black female "Laura" and spent most of his time with a culturally black, middle class family acted white? I don't think I remember it that way. I remeber them saying he was a nerd, yes, but not white acting or "acted white."
Anyway, the way I see it, families that choose to assimilate risk having their children (educated or not) viewed as "acting white." It's that simple. For some families it's worth the risk... so why complain. And, for God's sake, why try to make poor black kids seem foolish by fallaciously suggesting that they ignorantly and stupidly believe that only white kids can be smart and educated.
Those who choose to assimilate into white American culture almost always have to emulate many of the characteristics of that culture; thus, they emulate (act like) the people - white. How hard is that to understand.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 938
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 09:23 pm: |
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I think there are differences between "actin white" and being a nerd. Also, I wonder where Spike is getting his information from....from what I remember, and this was long ago, but the study that claimed that black kids dislike other kids for actin white was discredited... |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 825
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:06 pm: |
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I was commenting on his total statement.
Not just the small piece about peer pressure.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 826
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:08 pm: |
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I do notice products like "Pimp Juice"
"The Pimp" being glorified--black men disrespecting all women based on PIMP rules.
I do see young teen black blonds here in Calif. whose goal is to become a "stripper"---or anyone who is deemed sexually desired and WANTED.
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Enchanted
Newbie Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 02:17 pm: |
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What in the hell is acting black? Jee Whiz.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2942
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 06:04 pm: |
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Acting black is saying that a black person who talks proper is acting white. Simple? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2943
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 06:20 pm: |
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I have yet to hear a rebuttal to Cosby's claims that was not a politically correct rationale. I contend that there is a correlation between unwed teen-aged pregnancy and the poor parenting that breeds the crime that fills the prisons with young black men guilty of not having fathers in the home. And it's all down hill from there. I know, Yukio. You disagree. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 791
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 07:41 pm: |
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You can speak standard/"proper" English without SOUNDING white... so that argument doesn't fly, not to those with common sense. Who ya foolin? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 941
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 08:20 pm: |
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cyn: I agree, but with qualifications. I would add poor housing, low paying jobs, crowded schools, unlicensed teachers, disinterested school board.
Then, I would talk about micro and macro economics, but you know this cyn. My thinking about these issues--race, class, and gender--have not changed.
Enchanted, if you are here to find general agreement and motivational upliftment, this may not be the place. If you are looking for sporadic dialogue as well as cat fighting, perpetual ad hominem, et al...this is the place to be...lmao! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2944
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 08:21 pm: |
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Tonya:
"You can speak standard/"proper" English without SOUNDING white."
Me:
Tell that to the kids who speak Ebonics. Let that fly in your face. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 794
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 09:30 pm: |
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Cynnique:
Tell that to the kids who speak Ebonics. Let that fly in your face.
Tonya:
Let what fly in my face? Do you honestly believe that those kids who speak Ebonics don't know the difference between standard/"proper" English and SOUNDING white? Please!!! Let's stop repeating the conniving unsubstantiated nonsense that assimilated black folks came up with to discredit the accurate assertions of poor black kids just so they can relieve themselves of the internalized shame/guilt/pressure. Let's stop!
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 942
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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cyn: when black kids say that people sound white...its not because they are speaking standard english. Its because they are tone and they these socalled standard speakers also use white slang. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2946
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:38 pm: |
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True, Yukio, but it is not unusual that if if you correct the grammar of a black child who speaks ebonics, they may very well scowl at you and tell you thay ain't tryin to talk all white. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2947
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:53 pm: |
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Don't lecture me with all that tired drivel you read in somebody's book, Tonya. Do you really think black kids speaking Ebonics are deaf? They know that someone who is talkin in a vernacular different from theirs could very well be someone trying to be white, especially if it's a person in their age group. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 795
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:31 am: |
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Cynnique,
All of what I said came straight from me -- I DID NOT READ ANY OF IT FROM A BOOK, which proves the point that those who speak Ebonics liberally can also speak standard English when they have to. They know the difference.
Yukio,
Their tone and usage af white slang, exactly. And it kills me that people are trying to pretend they don't know this. Anyway, I was waiting for Cynnique to ask me to "describe how white sounds " cuz I was prepared to answer by telling her that it's the tone. So I agree with you 100%
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 944
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 02:06 am: |
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cyn: You are also right; it is not unsual. Whatever the case is, our children need to learn/know standard english. Teenage pregnancy does not produce functionally illiterate people...Other functionally illiterate people and a curriculum that doesn't know how to teach literacy w/o making judgements are responsible. Black folk have been code switching for a long time; unfortunately, someone hasn't taught this to our impoverished children. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2949
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 11:04 am: |
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I still maintain that a multitude of problems stem from all the ramifications of generation after genration of unwed teen-aged pregnancies which seem almost to be a rite of passage in the ghetto sub culture. It boils down to starting off on the wrong foot and this cripples all future endeavors. Yes, the schools are a factor, but it's hard to teach a class full of unruly children whose mothers are not only lax in parenting skills but belligerent toward teachers who attempt to discipline their little darlings who are more interested in rap than reading. Yes, there are cases that don't adhere to my scenario but the bad apples always ruin it for everyone else. Ebonic-speaking children can't be taught to be bilingual unless they are exposed to standard English and if when they are exposed to standard English, it is blown off as being associated with being white, things start to look a little dismal. And of course, a lot of these kids are being raised by their grandmothers who are too weary to worry about talking proper. Now, all of this is not to say that people don't make it out of the ghetto and go on to lead better lives but these are usually the ones who don't tie themselves down with a lot of children by different men, a situation that can't be blamed on racism. And yes, we know that this lifestyle occurs in the white underclasses too, but let white folks worry about that. If I sound like a conservative, then so be it. Obviously being liberal when it comes to this subject does nothing but reinforce the stagnation that produces no results. And that sound you hear is me jumping down from my soap box, finished with preaching my same ol sermon. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1592
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 11:10 am: |
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Cynique:
What do you know about the ghetto subculture save what you hear about on The O'Reilly factor? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2951
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 11:41 am: |
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Don't be silly. I'm 20 minutes away from Chicago and I am not insulated from what goes on in its inner city. What do you know about the ghetto sub culture? Is it contradictory to what I said??? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1594
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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Cynique:
My little toe knows more about it than you. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1595
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 11:57 am: |
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And this for that washed up Lizard, Shelton Lee
Spike Lee, why do you dwindle? A lament, in the form of a review of 'Sucker Free City'
From today's Oregonian:
Man, what happened to Spike Lee?
The writer-director's growing irrelevance is one of the great tragedies to follow the '80s indie-film boom. Movie-lovers will remember when Lee, working with cinematographer Ernest Dickerson, unleashed a string of fresh, ambitious, racially charged films from 1986-92-- including "She's Gotta Have It," "Do the Right Thing" and "Malcolm X" -- that dropped on the national consciousness like atom bombs. Even flawed films like "Jungle Fever" (hell, even his hilarious Nike commercials) were fodder for magazine think pieces, with Lee raising everyone's hackles as a sound-bite provocateur. (Remember when he told kids to skip school to see "Malcolm X" back in '92?)
And then the downhill slide began in earnest.
After "Malcolm X," Dickerson ended their collaboration to become a mediocre film director. Unfortunately, so did Lee. Starting with the crazy-horrible "Crooklyn," Lee's output became erratic at best -- a mix of deliberate provocation ("Bamboozled"), dramatic tone-deafness ("She Hate Me") and moments of genuine artistry ("The 25th Hour"). While he's directed a couple of decent nonfiction pieces, he has yet to produce a single film that fires on all burners in the post-Dickerson era.
And the worst thing? Nobody cares. Here's how bad it's gotten: Lee can't even get a Showtime miniseries off the ground.
According to The Hollywood Reporter, his latest directorial effort, "Sucker Free City" -- airing Saturday, Feb. 12 as a "Showtime Original Movie" -- was commissioned by the cable network in 2003 as a series pilot. But then Showtime Entertainment president Robert Greenblatt, after considering making it a "limited-run series," settled for throwing the pilot onscreen as a stand-alone film.
Unfortunately, it fails utterly at standing alone.
There is a precedent for this sort of thing smelting cinematic gold. David Lynch managed to transform "Mulholland Dr." from a failed ABC pilot into something beautiful, strange and slightly terrifying. "Sucker Free City," unfortunately, is just another mediocre Spike Lee Joint -- only now with unresolved TV subplots. It's a shaggy, uninvolving telefilm with a strong social conscience, a preachy script, one or two credible performances and flashes of the old visual brilliance that mainly serve to remind "Do the Right Thing" fans of better days.
The worst part is that "Sucker Free City" contains the germ of a really excellent idea for a TV series. The story follows three young hoodlums -- one white, one African-American and one Chinese-American -- as they cross paths in San Francisco's less celebrated neighborhoods.
Nick (Ben Crowley) is the white kid -- an entry-level office worker, part-time drug dealer and full-time dirtbag. (It's seriously impossible to like this kid: Crowley comes off like one of the New Kids on the Block trying to play "street.") He's forced to move with his hippie parents to the crime-ridden Hunter's Point neighborhood after gentrification prices them out of the Mission District.
Once there, Nick's burglarized, beaten and shot at by the local gang, the "V-Dub Mafia." But he soon finds an ally of sorts in K-Luv (Anthony Mackie) -- an African-American who wants to move away from gangbanging into the more respectable (and less violent) music-bootlegging business. But that brings K-Luv into conflict with the mafia in Chinatown, where a young, ambitious enforcer (Ken Leung) is screwing up royally between bouts of badly written trysting with the Tong leader's daughter (T.V. Carpio).
Given that this is essentially a failed pilot, none of these promising storylines are resolved. Which leaves us with Lee's filmmaking -- which is stylish and often visually stunning, but seems at a cool remove from the characters.
It's not hard to see why "Sucker Free City" didn't fly with Showtime: The characters (particularly an embarrassing John Savage as Nick's clueless dad) are prone to the didactic speechifying that plagues so many Spike Lee films. Only Mackie and Leung pull it off with any degree of skill. And the naturalistic, handheld style employed for much of the film doesn't mesh with Lee's more cartoony affectations -- such as having the characters stare accusingly at the camera, or having the V-Dubs drink from 40-ounce malt-liquor bottles literally shaped like aerial bombs. Unlike, say, "Do the Right Thing," there's no consistent style merging these over-the-top ideas with the grittier story being told.
To quote the cynical cops from Lee's greatest work of art: "What a waste."
____________________
Lee's downward spiral continues with 'Sucker Free City' (The Oregonian, Feb. 12, 2004)
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2952
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:00 pm: |
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But what about your little brain, Chrishayden? What does it know? Get specific. What I don't see first hand I hear about from school teacher and social worker friends who are in the thick of the ghetto lifestyle. What did I say that's inaccurate. You just can't stand for anybody to say what you don't want to hear. You think you know so much about me and you don't know shit. I don't even watch Bill O'Reilly, you presumptuous prick. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 796
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 01:06 pm: |
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Cynnique:
Your soap box sermon was some truth mixed with a whole lot of what you hear rather than what you see. That makes it a half-truth -- and we all know how dangerous those can be. As I said before, let's stop repeating the nonesense we hear and recognize where it's coming from. And, yes, being too liberal is not the answer, but neither is telling/repeating half-truths. The way I see it.. if a bunch of powerful, yet ill informed, black folks start dumping their guilt off on powerless, and also ill informed, black kids by telling lies which in turn becomes half-truths... I'm going to come heavy-handed for the underdog; and if it means I'm being too liberal, so be it! Look at what we're up against.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 797
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 02:52 pm: |
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And let's examine why it is that Ebonic speaking children are so reluctant:
Cynnique --
if you correct the grammar of a black child who speaks ebonics, they may very well scowl at you and tell you thay ain't tryin to talk all white.
Tonya --
Could it be that MANY of the black people who they've seen "make it" usually HAVE TO acculturate (especially if they're female?)...
And because of this...
MANY OF THE ONES WHO "MAKE IT" END UP SOUNDING/ACTING WHITE....
If this is what young folks are seeing... yet, because of youth, are unable to understand why people do it, how can you not expect them to be disinclined.. confused.. and not to mention.. insulted?
So, please... let's stop acting like we don't know what they're talking about....
And let's stop making THEM seem like the fools; especially since it's only being done so that the rest of us won't be seen for what we are... fools.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 798
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 03:06 pm: |
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Now... Yukio.. you can talk your fip-flopping shit....I'm through.
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2953
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 04:59 pm: |
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Why is everybody under the impression that I am a spectator, sitting around parroting what I hear conservatives say? Why do you, Tonya, think you know any more than I, when I've been around twice as long as you have and know whereof I speak. Not only that, I've been listening to all of your tired arguments for 50 years. And it's the same ol same ol. Which is why at this point what folks like you contend is just so much blather because it doesn't tranlate into reality inasmuch as the logistics of your "solutions" cannot be implemented. Who is the "we" that you are expecting to whip into line by programing their minds to think like you do? The millions of affluent blacks you want to shame into believing that they are responsible for the holes that underclass members dig themselves into? The very people you are trying to recruit to your cause, are the very people you are disparaging because they rose above the same circumstances as those who became mired in the ghetto mindset. Which is why your rhetoric has no impact. What is the motivation to jump on the USS MISERY LOVES COMPANY, a ship slowly sinking in a sea of Bill Cosby critics. And don't tell me that we are all tied to a common fate. It sounds very noble. But in a dog-eat-dog world, survivors survive. And nothing succeeds like success in America, - the Land of the free white man and the home of the brave nigga. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 800
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 07:11 pm: |
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So what's your point?
Okay... So they don't act/sound white....
Black kids don't know what they're talking about --
CUZ THAT'S WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT.
But go right ahead and change the subject --
it worked for everybody else, right?
Maybe you have been around too long....
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 801
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 07:46 pm: |
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***The very people you are trying to recruit to your cause, are the very people you are disparaging because they rose above the same circumstances as those who became mired in the ghetto mindset***
First off - I ain't trying to recruit N-O-B-O-D-Y.
I made my agenda clear from the door... WALK ON!!!
I'm just calling it like I see it... that's all.
***they rose above the same circumstances as those who became mired in the ghetto mindset***
...HOW?
Look, I am ALL for getting over the ghetto mindset -- that, too, was my agenda from the door (self-hate, remember?)...
BUT I AM NOT GOING TO DOLE OUT CREDIT FOR ACTING WHITE -- HOW IS THAT GETTING OVER THE HUMP -- ANY FOOL CAN ACT WHITE. LET'S NOT MAKE IT SEEM LIKE THEY'VE DONE SOME SHIT ANYBODY WITH NO SELF RESPECT AND INTEGRITY COULDN'T DO. SO THEY AIN'T RISEN ABOVE SHIT -- LET'S GET THAT STRAIGHT.
We give credit only when credit is due.
Tonya
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 845
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 09:01 pm: |
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One fact no one's mentioned:
White and Latino Teenaged girls have now surpassed BLACK teens in the unwed underage statistics. Black teens now have the lowest incidence of it.
As well--black women in of all ages have become the LEAST impregnated women in America, holding that title since 2000.
The community is rotting and has fallen apart, but I'm not so sure that black teen mothers are the culprit.
In fact I think black mothers, traditionally, of all ages, have forgone being educated and everything else just to make a way out of no way for the whole community.
There are incredibly destructive forces in the community, but many of them---we have traditionally made excuses for and REFUSED to identify or acknowledge.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2956
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 10:05 pm: |
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Excuses, excuses, Tonya. I was finished disagreeing with you about Ebonics and was responding to your implication that I was influenced by white conservatives. And just for the record, I also disagree with your saying that self-hate is a ghetto mind set. Kids in the ghetto like themsevles just fine. In fact they would seem to have an inflated sense of self esteem. That's why the neck-workin, hands-on their-hips, elaborately-coiffed girls are all sassy and confident and the swaggering, home boys are all cocky and bold, demeanors which give rise to the mating rituals that culminate in the "baby's mama" status these girls take such pride in. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2957
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 10:30 pm: |
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Kola, the statistics on white and hispanic teen-age pregancies exceeding black ones don't matter because it just an equation of high, higher, and highest and it can't be denied that the high number of black teen-aged pregnancies take a long-term toll on the stability of the black community. Other statistics show that those who get pregnant young are usually repeat "offenders" and end up being the unwed mothers of multiple fatherless children. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 802
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 12:07 am: |
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***I was finished disagreeing with you about Ebonics and was responding to your implication that I was influenced by white conservatives***
Don't flatter yourself.
I never once implied that your views stemmed from white conservatism. THAT'S WHAT YOU CAME UP WITH. I won't speculate on where your views stem from, but your doggedness to spread half-truths and the gaucheness of your recent tasteless attempt at humor divulges a lot. (Tsk-tsk)
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 803
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 12:16 am: |
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Kola, that's wonerful knews. I haven't heard about that.... Go figure.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2958
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 11:59 am: |
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My, my! Is this Tonya, casting aspersions on my wit, when all her posts do is spew profanity and re-cycled garbage?? And does it take a rocket scientist to figure out what my posts divulge? I am laughing at those who are even funnier commedians than Bill Cosby, keeping in mind that all humor contains an element of truth. (And it's really amusing how Tonya says I flatter myself by thinking she was comparing me to white conservatives. Guess she subconsciously thinks comparing someone other than me to a white conservative is a compliment. And we know what that divulges, don't we? heh-heh. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 805
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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***it's really amusing how Tonya says I flatter myself by thinking she was comparing me to white conservatives. Guess she subconsciously thinks comparing someone other than me to a white conservative is a compliment.***
If that's what you want to think. I'm not into tormenting one's spirit so if manipulating my intent by painting me as some unwitting white worshiper and a conservative idealist consoles you... knock yourself out; besides, I never meant to be that cruel in the first place. But that's what happens when we visit your comfort level -- where the topic is no longer being debated and there's room for nothing else except petty catfighting and the debasing of your opponent. At least my profanity and "re-cycled garbage" bares substance. I've never once corresponded with you and had the theme last for more than a few posts. It's not that you won't stick to the subject -- you can't. Your wit is not in question, my dear, and had you a clue you'd uderstand where my last post was coming from. You need a little more than just wit -- some things shouldn't result in a sqabble. You find my use of profanity a sign of little wit (a line you conficated from your sidekick Moonsigns). I find your comfort zone vacant, mean-spirited, and entirely frivolous. So, unless you plan to return the dicussion back to someting that merits consideration, it's silly for us to pretend we have anything in common....
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2960
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 06:35 pm: |
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Puleeze, Tonya. I have never professed to have anything in common with you or have I have ever considered your gross profanity a sign of wit. So if we want to talk about straying from the subject let's also talk about straying from the truth. And since you are so fixated on sticking to the subject that you have exhibited little coherence about, I will clearly state my opinons about ebonic-speaking black kids who think those who use standard English are trying to act white. I say such kids need to be brought up to speed and told that when you take crack you cloud your mind and when you can't speak standard English you limit your mind, something they will realize once they get out into the real world, unless of course they want to sell drugs or be a rapper or a basketball jock. Other wise they need to respect authority and listen to what those who have your best interest at heart are telling you. Adults should not allow children to manipulate them for fear of damaging their skewed little psyches. Now if kids blow off the opportunity to become bilingual because doing so would damage their sense of self, then introduce them to their higher self, the one that requires them to think past what is popular rather than what is productive. And if a black child hears a successful black person sounding like a white person and they draw the conclusion that this is what it takes to be successful, tell them that this way of talking is comparable to their idols dying their hair blond and wearing long extensions and colored contacts and using Ambi skin lightener, and that this is all about people making personal choices and if they want to make the personal choice to speak only Ebonics, den fuck it, go ahead and do it. Bottom line, children need to learn to adjust to the world, since the world is not going to adjust to them unless they become stuck in a backward little world of their own making. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 807
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 08:03 pm: |
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Hers's were you and I disagree:
"...kids who think those who use standard English are trying to act white."
I don't think they believe users of standard standing English are trying to act white. I think they know the difference between standard English and acting/sounding white. I also believe there's a blatantly dishonest reason why *some* people try to make it seem like these kids don't understand the difference, insinuating that they're incapable of distinguishing the two.
Other than that I agree with your post a zillion percent. Especially this part:
***Now if kids blow off the opportunity to become bilingual because doing so would damage their sense of self, then introduce them to their higher self, the one that requires them to think past what is popular rather than what is productive. And if a black child hears a successful black person sounding like a white person and they draw the conclusion that this is what it takes to be successful, tell them that this way of talking is comparable to their idols dying their hair blond and wearing long extensions and colored contacts and using Ambi skin lightener, and that this is all about people making personal choices and if they want to make the personal choice to speak only Ebonics, den fuck it, go ahead and do it.***
Even if I was as fluent as you are I could not have said it better myself.
Lastly:
***I have ever considered your gross profanity a sign of wit.***
I said a sign of *little* wit. In other words, lacking wit or dull. Which I disagree with a zillion percent but that's another topic.... LOL.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 808
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 08:32 pm: |
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That was suppose to say "here's where you and I disagree"... my bad. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 809
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 09:05 pm: |
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***I have never professed to have anything in common with you***
That was just a subtle way of highlighting the critisims and differences between the two of us:
You find my use of profanity a sign of little wit (a line you confiscated from your sidekick Moonsigns). I find your comfort zone vacant, mean-spirited, and entirely frivolous. So, unless you plan to return the dicussion back to someting that merits consideration, it's silly for us to pretend we have anything in common....
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 946
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 09:54 pm: |
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what has happened here? I take a lil trip and bam!
Tonya:
Flip flop?
I agree to some degree with both points. That there is a difference between talking white and speaking standard english AND that when some black kids are criticized they immediate use the "talk white" card. Life is grey, rarely black or white. We can be only be black and white with our convictions and decisions.
Hmmmmm? What else did I say that could be characterized as flip flopping?
Was it the fact that many of us are walking around functionally illiterate? Even many of our college graduates, to say the least. This is true amongs whites as well. Unfortunately, this is a white supremacity society, thus our skin places us at a disadvantage.
And yes, I believe that learning standard english is essential. It is something that I work on constantly, for I did not grow up in a family where standard english was the norm....Like it or not, we are judged on our facility with the english language. And really, this is the norm. It is a question of power, reflected in all societies. All languages have a standard form, and generally the poor folk use it, thus so, poorly...it is a class signifier. This is all to say that using standard english can open doors, believe it or not! And, even if our children know the difference between standard english and speaking white, they are often functionally illiterate! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 947
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 09:58 pm: |
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Kola: I dont know about black women forgoing education. They're more educated than black men, especially in hbcus. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2961
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:04 am: |
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Are you suffering from a loss of short-term recall, Tonya? Why are you saying what you already said? And what's with this "comfort" level thing? I'm comfortable at any level. It should be obvious that I thrive on provoking the responses I get and the jabs I deliver. And in my role as a "creative nusiance" I employ a scatter shot approach. Guess you've never figured this out. I also don't play by your rules, something that seems to frustrate you when you have the answers ready for the questions I don't ask. Poor thing. Don't pout just cuz you exploded on this board, thinking you were going to blow everybody away. And then you didn't. You're just another opinionated person with an axe to grind. BTW, I didn't even know that Moonie referred to your profane tirades as not being "witty". Good for her! Ta-Ta, Ton-Ton. I've said all I'm going to say on this subject. Flick! Talk to the hand. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2962
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:06 am: |
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Hi Yukie. Where ya been, babe? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 810
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:10 am: |
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...Flip-flop, flip-flop...
I agree with everything you've said, but you're still a flip-flop! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 811
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 04:19 am: |
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***Don't pout just cuz you exploded on this board, thinking you were going to blow everybody away. And then you didn't.***
Please, Cynnique! I had no intentions of blowing people away when I crashed these boards. I read something that pissed me off and before I even finished the article I was typing and bitchin my first post. But that's just how I am. If you think that's something, you should meet me in real life. I talk shit all day and all night. I'm one of those people that can't shut up even when someone is threatening my life. I'm the only person I know who ended up with two black eyes; which still didn't get me to shut up. I've been fired (several times) beat down (numorous times) threatened with bodily harm (plenty of times)... and the sad part is, I can't fight my way out of a paper bag.. But none of that has ever gotten me to shut up. My poor mother fears for my life; and she doesn't want me to get married cause she thinks I'm going to be a battered wife. I keep assuring her that that's not going to happen though. I let her know that times are changing and that women are more educated, so I'm trying really hard to get her to not worry. Anyway, I was not trying to blow anyone away That's just how I am. If I have something to say, I just say it, and, for some reason, I don't think about next.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 948
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 07:20 am: |
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tonya...you are a stubborn one...but I can appreciate that!
Cyn: When o westchester to see some family! One day trip, but I didn't have access to the net! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1599
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 03:38 pm: |
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Cynique, you are as boring and predictable as the 12:00 noon whistle.
You need to speak for yourself. We know you used to pass for Black for a minute but that don't make you no expert. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 299
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 05:44 pm: |
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----" but the study that claimed that black kids dislike other kids for actin white was discredited..."----
Yukio, from all the crap I endured from both kids AND adults on behalf of my dialect, those studies are not worth being taken seriously.
And CLEARLY you've never been personally affected from this issue since you rely on reports for information.
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Tonya:
I brought up the steve urkel topic. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 300
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 05:48 pm: |
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One more thing:
being harassed for "acting white" STILL HAPPENS, or else I wouldn't have other black girls (and boys) sharing their own horror stories to me.
Studies are utter B.S.!!!!!!! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 955
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 06:08 pm: |
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roxie: Testy, aren't we. We haven't even been introduced and you are talkin out of your...
So, in order to discuss an issue one has to have derivative personal experience?
Let me respectfully address your ERRORS. I do have personal experience with this question of "speaking white" and have read articles not reports on the issue. Does this authenticate my posts?
If you took the time, a previous post would have indicated that I have had personal experience with these issues, at various levels. At any rate, the lack of derivative experience doesn't preclude one from having a legitimate understanding and position about social phenomena. This is why we are here, no? You have the nerve to make such a statement on a website devoted to literature? The shame...
I'm sure, if I took the time or the desire, I could canvass this site and find threads in which you discuss topics that you have no immediate personal experiences with (cynique, should I have written "in" or "with"; This is an example of what I'm talking about...the question of standard english...consider this basic question of prepositions).
Finally, redirect the "crap" towards your those whom deserve it. DO NOT project your business upon me. I am innocent! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 956
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 06:23 pm: |
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Roxie: More foolishness, eh? Please forgo you attacks; they are embedded in ignorance AND misguided, directed blame.
Let me make something clear, so that you can stop wallowing in self-pity!
The studies weren't about the occurence of "acting white." The studies were ultimately about blaming black people for the making of the ghetto. In other words, it was a way to redirect blame upon black folk rather than directing it towards white folk and institutional racism.
My point was, if you bothered to ask before you made these fallacious allegations, that the studies were discredited because other studies have shown that black children and the black community, at large, are not impoverished because they don't want to "talk or act white."
This doesn't mean that black kids don't say that speaking standard english is acting or talking white. In fact, I have already partially agreed with Cynique's comments, again, if you have read what I state. And, I've also been called a flip flop, it seems, because I partially agreed with Cynique.
Finally, I hope you have not allowed these interpersonal issues to prohibit you from looking at the big picture. If you indeed "act or talk white," excuse me for being insensitive, then you have very little to worry about! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 958
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 06:40 pm: |
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Roxie: I'm rereading my post...this has been a long day. At any rate, I apologize if I have disrespected you. And for the tone of the post! The substance, however, should show how we don't even disagree, and how we are actually talking about different parts of the same topic. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 959
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 07:11 pm: |
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Here may be an interesting read, entitled, The economics of actiing white, by david austen-smith.
Another interesting title: Ronald E. Hall, An empirical analysis of the impact of skin color on African American education, income, and occupation. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2968
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 07:51 pm: |
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You devour every boring post I write, Chrishayden because a loser like you has nothing better to do than to try and use me to draw attention to yourself, hoping somebody will be impressed with your tired ol 1980 opinions. You are nowhere near as outstanding as you delude yourself into thinking. And the idea of a dull geek like you calling somebody else boring is a desperate cry for attention. BTW, how tall are you? About 5'7". You're pitiful. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 152
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 04:05 am: |
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Spike's on the money. Ignorance can be deadly. |
Negrological
Newbie Poster
Username: Negrological
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 03:03 pm: |
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I don't see anything particularly wrong with Spike's remarks. There is a glorification of the pimp, gangsta, hustla, playa lifestyle in the Black Community. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1620
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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Cynique:
I am six feet and 240 pounds of MAIN! I'm a full grown man. I'm ALL man. I'm a natchul man.
Put that in your corncob pipe, Mammy Yokum, and smoke it.
I belieive I'll have you go out with me on personal appearances. You will wear a Sir Nose D'Void O Funk costume and at first run in and out of the hall yelling "I will never dance". Then when I hit you with the Bop Gun you'll break down doing the Fox Trot, the Charleston and the Cakewalk (the only dances you can do without breaking your neck)
Back to Dr. Lizardo Spike o.
The only people who get harassed for acting white are self loathing negroes who throw off the vibe that they despise other blacks so loud that people turn on them.
Spike talks all this crap and he is colder than a St. Louis pimp toward his women. Plus all the female leads in his stories tend to be the color of land o lakes margerine--the brother is color struck.
I hate it when these reprobates get up in age where they can't get it up anymore and start sounding off about young people.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 878
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 03:56 pm: |
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H~A~L~L~E~L~U~I~A~H!!! ----- A~M~E~N!!! ----- TELL 'EM, BROTHA!!!!!!
You are sooooo, sooooo right:
***The only people who get harassed for acting white are self loathing negroes who throw off the vibe that they despise other blacks so loud that people turn on them.***
And:
***Spike talks all this crap and he is colder than a St. Louis pimp toward his women. Plus all the female leads in his stories tend to be the color of land o lakes margerine--the brother is color struck.... I hate it when these reprobates get up in age where they can't get it up anymore and start sounding off about young people.***
CAN'T GET NO TRUER THAN THAT!
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 879
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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Also:
You will wear a Sir Nose D'Void O Funk costume and at first run in and out of the hall yelling "I will never dance". Then when I hit you with the Bop Gun you'll break down doing the Fox Trot, the Charleston and the Cakewalk (the only dances you can do without breaking your neck)
ROTFLMAO!!!
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3018
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:08 pm: |
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You are 250 pounds of blubber inflated by the hot air that emanates from your liver lips and the fizz that deflates your sagging crotch. EWE And I wouldn't go to empty the garbage with you which, incidentally, would be equivalent to accompanying you on a book tour personal appearance. zzzzz. And the more you blab, the more I like Spike Lee and Bill Cosby. BTW, if you had any sense you would be full of self hate because you serve no purpose except to weigh down the sinking ship you are a passenger on. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3019
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:13 pm: |
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Stop peeing on yourself, Tonya! Since you missed your big chance to get it on with R. Kelly, go squat on Chrishayden's face and let go. (Sorry Troy. LMAO) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 880
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 05:21 pm: |
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...LMAO!!! |
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