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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 723
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 08:51 am: | 
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via Afro-Netizen: http://www.afro-netizen.com/2005/10/on_respect.html
On Respect
Diary of a mad, bad, sad and ultimately glad black woman
Farai Chideya
San Francisco Chronicle
I recently moved to Los Angeles. Along with the fun of exploring its interconnected cities, I experienced a string of racial incidents. Some were faintly ridiculous, like a spat with the owners of a spa who'd canceled my reservation. Others were all too familiar, like meeting a landlord who clearly didn't want to rent to me. It was as if the universe was saying, "Hold on, black woman, don't get too big for your britches."
Humility is a virtue black women -- and African Americans generally -- are expected to have in excess. But as I travel through the country speaking to students, I find myself trying to make sense of how we as black people should move through the world. Should we let the pain of racial slights roll off our backs? Or should we aggressively fight every injustice? The answer is by no means clear.
My incidents in Los Angeles were minor compared to what happened to me earlier this year. I was invited to speak at Barnard College's "Celebration of Black Womanhood" in New York. I walked through Central Park and saw the billowing saffron curtains of Christo's "Gates." A late winter snow frosted the ground; the park was near empty and serene.
The college agreed to send a car to pick me up. The ride was uneventful. And then we pulled up at the gates. "Twenty dollars," the driver said. Never mind that a cab would have cost me $7. I'd spent my cash on a hat and gloves, and besides, the university was supposed to pay.
I told him so. He said he didn't have a university number. I told him again: I'm not responsible for paying. Please call your supervisor and sort this out. It was the principle of the thing.
Black women, as a rule, do not get to stand on principle. We do not have the luxury of being right for right's sake. So when I demanded he call his supervisor, he locked the doors and called the police.
So I called the police, too -- the campus police. They pleaded with me to pay the bill by credit card. I offered, reluctantly. The driver refused my offer. I assume he thought I was a thief. It was the principle of the thing.
So I told "my" police they'd better get someone out here quick or no uplifting speech about black women would be forthcoming. Two cops and a very cold young man clutching $20 appeared to diffuse the situation. What didn't work was my attempt to choke back tears. It takes a lot to get me going, but once I do, I'm a faucet. Instead of arriving on campus an hour early, calm and composed, I arrived with only half an hour to spare, sans handcuffs, but sobbing.
The organizers of the event met me with coffee and sympathy, and after a few moments of meditation I composed myself.
The first thing I did at the banquet was tell the story of how I'd arrived. I asked the audience to try to understand what it said about being black today.
When met by an assumption -- for example, "black women are thieving" -- should I diffuse conflict? Or should I behave as if my honesty were unassailable? Is demanding respect an egotistical pursuit in a flawed world? Or is it a necessary form of resistance that benefits those who come after you, if not you yourself? How many battles do you have to fight just to be you? And how many must you fight for your tribe?
Identity is a Zen koan, a riddle. Who are you when stripped of race, of class, of gender and sexuality? Are you -- are we -- defined by the act of challenging other peoples' assumptions? If the world suddenly stopped pushing us, would we fall on our faces because we were still pushing back?
The worst thing about any group identity is that it becomes fixed, Procrustean. We shave off little bits of our souls, or lop off whole limbs, to fit what we think suits "black" or "woman"... or "Asian" or "Christian" or "Muslim" or "gay" or "straight." We might join in crusades we don't believe in, or sit out battles we should engage in, in order to stay in the center of our herd. And we do this so others will see us as authentic, instead of showing our true, messed-up, divine and complicated selves.
Each of you, I said to the women at Barnard, is a star in the heavens. Sometimes others will see your brilliant light; sometimes it'll be hidden by life's clouds. But even when no one sees you, no one appreciates you, you shine. Seek to keep your light, and illuminate your unique place in the sky.
Afterward, the students and I talked. They were relieved not to hear one more call to be a soldier, a warrior, a tough black woman. Or not to be a perfect lady, full of grace under fire. Of course, they were all these things, and much more.
The most revolutionary thing you can tell a young black woman -- or anyone -- today is to be herself. Not the self that the media, mainstream society, peers or parents demand; not the self that will necessarily get you the most money or acceptance or acclaim, but the kind of self that can walk whole and unrestrained through the world, accepting of others, with kindness and joy -- even in the face of pain.
Farai Chideya is a correspondent for National Public Radio, founder of PopandPolitics.com, a California Fellow of the New America Foundation and author of three books, including "Trust: Reaching the 100 Million Missing Voters."
I've bolded my favorite quote from this article. As a Black woman raising two Black little girls I couldn't agree more. But it is such a struggle. Sometimes just considering it makes me tired...
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2827
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 09:40 am: |
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What an absolutely riveting article! So full of truth and insight, especially since the author realized that others with different baggage share her plight. But in eschewing the role of being a warrior, she gave her formula for getting through life, and if what she advised didn't require being a warrior I don't know what does. Still, I'm totally impressed with her wisdom and humanity. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 727
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:12 am: |
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I agree, Cynique. There are so many things I want to be "when I grow up" and being human and wise are in the top 10. If only I could start over again from about, say, 25 years old or so. I'd be on top of things then! |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 721
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 11:09 am: |
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Love it! |
Sisg
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 214
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 01:17 pm: |
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I loved it too! Thanks for sharing Yvettep! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 687
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 03:24 pm: |
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I didn't like the article.
Or rather--this is the only part I liked:
And we do this so others will see us as authentic, instead of showing our true, messed-up, divine and complicated selves.
(because I've always shown my naked, mentally messed-up divine complicated self, I appreciated that).
But otherwise---to me----this is the TYPICAL "Black American" woman's 400 year edict complete with MAMMY ending.
Basically saying turn the other cheek. Don't let sticks and stones get you down. You are worthy no matter how the society spits on you.
All of that's irrevelent.
She's just orientating the next crop to stay in their place--remain at their STATION.
One reason I haven't been able to enjoy Farai's books...is because of what they don't say.
She writes like it's still 1978.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 643
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 04:22 pm: |
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There's a BIG difference between wanting/demanding to be respected and wanting/demanding to NOT BE TREATED LIKE THE REST. Like the vibe I get from a lot of middle and upper middle class black women, the latter is the vibe I'm getting from this author. You're right, Kola, MAMMY is the first thing that came to my mind too, but for me it was for the reason I described above.
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2829
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 04:33 pm: |
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Of course you wouldn't like it, Kola Boof, because what this woman said flies in the face of all the irrational 1960 militancy that floats your boat and that never went anywhere but down the river of futility. She's a survivor, you're a dreamer who's nightmare in on the horizon. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2830
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 04:57 pm: |
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And this woman isn't providing any breasts for white people to lay their heads on so the Mammy analogy is totally off base. She was being true to herself, and who is to say that her passive resistance won't triumph over a lot of hot air that rises and dissipates into nothing. When will Konya understand that America doesn't give a shit about your welfare? That's why your hard brittleness is going to shatter; because you go into battle without knowing how to maneuver. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 644
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:15 pm: |
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You can't have it both ways. When you're black, either you fight to dismantle the stereotype, or you spend the rest of your life losing battles to it; which, in many cases, leads black women to taking on the roles of mammy... talk about dreams.... Not Unless you're Oprah.
By the way, "MILITANT" was a word and a stereotype used to get even the most non-militant among us to stop fighting... and it worked.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 645
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:24 pm: |
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Cynnique:
When will Konya understand that America doesn't give a shit about your welfare
Tonya:
When will Cynnique understand that "KONYA" doesn't need America to give a shit about her welfare -- Konya needs to give a shit about it, herself. Haven't you learned that by now? Of course not - that's why we can't see eye to eye.
TONYA |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2831
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:26 pm: |
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Who says you can't have it both ways? People like you who think everybody has to conform to your cock-eyed set of rules? And if you want to talk about words being used to neutralize people, the lable "mammy" used by people like you is a perfect example. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 692
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:29 pm: |
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Yeah, Tonya. While I love Oprah and Iyanla Vanzant and Farai Chideia...
...I just find their overall message for black women to be "NOT ENOUGH".
It's not agressive or pro-gressive enough.
It's not AT ALL the type of thing that White Women and other Non-Black women would ever go around preaching.
But you can't get Black women to notice that---because they're SCARED to.
The speech is about ENDURING and carrying the burden.
Not about changing the society by deliberately destroying/removing that which is toxic to you.
Marita Golden's message is more up my alley.
And I RESPECT the White women's sense of ENTITLEMENT and how White women pass that on to their daughters. I greatly admire the Depth of White Femininism.
I prefer Jill Scott and Erykuh Badu's anthems about REFUSING to go along with mere "Coping".
As Lauryn Hill said, "Confrontation is not what the people want---but it's what they NEED."
Black women especially need that.
It's the slaves and maids who ENDURE and COPE and get high off the stars they see after being bashed in the head.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2832
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:31 pm: |
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If you're worried about your welfare than you're on the wrong track. If you were in contact with reality, you'd see that you are on the road to nowhere. Face it. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 646
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:35 pm: |
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***And this woman isn't providing any breasts for white people to lay their heads on so the Mammy analogy is totally off base***
The meaning behind the word mammy has evolved (e.g. "MODERN MAMMY"). You should either read more, or learn how to shut the fuck up!
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2833
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:39 pm: |
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What would you know about maids and slaves? All you know about is wrapping yourself in the mantle of a savior and appointing yourself as a spokes person for women who whould put you to shame with the way they have managed to get over. You under-estimate people. And you think black folks are the only one who endure hard times. You view the world through Kola-colored glasses. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2834
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:43 pm: |
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You need to learn how to comprehend. Your thought processes are flawed. And what the fuck are you going to do if I don't shut up?? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 693
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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But yes she IS providing breasts for the White people to lay their heads on!!
Listen to that article.
Look at the School's reaction to her incident and what they did about it.
Look at how she had to calm herself down and everybody else at the school.
There was basically NOTHING DONE about it.
Then she goes out to give that message to the AUDIENCE of whom I'm certain a great many were WHITE.....
....and she placated them with very noble messages of Black women being their REAL AUTHENTIC SELVES----and turning the other cheek.
As I read the article, I was literally SHOCKED by its ending.
I couldn't believe it ended on that 1945 Ethel Waters note.
I could even see her looking up at the sky.
I appreciate her pain and her POSITIVE ATTITUDE and all. But it was still the old traditional Mammy speech.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2835
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:54 pm: |
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Those people did not come to her seeking solace. They were the ones offering her sympathy, and they responded to her civility. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 694
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 05:59 pm: |
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Oh wait, she was at Barnard.
So that was a black audience.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 695
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:01 pm: |
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My last comment will be this:
I greatly respect Farai Chideya
and I understand her pain and appreciate her positive attitude about dealing with it in HER WAY.
She has every right to espouse her way. I support her in that.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 647
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:04 pm: |
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***And if you want to talk about words being used to neutralize people, the lable "mammy" used by people like you is a perfect example***
I'm not at all concerned about that word neutralizing me.... It's a part of my arsenal -- It's on my side.
But for those words that are not on my side, umma fight 'em.
This author acts as if she doesn't know what to do about being stereotyped (i.e. "black women are thieving"). Instead of choosing to dismantle it so that all black women could be liberated from it, she chooses to look out for herself, or as she puts it "be herself", which is nothing more than a phrase cooked up by middle class black female mammies in order to seperate themselves from the typecasted and marginalized OTHERS. "Be yourself" simply means be what black men and white people deem acceptable.... Fuck ot of here!
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2836
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:07 pm: |
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You and I both know that Barnard is not a black school. This woman was the sympathetic character in this scenario; not the care-giver. And, as usual, we disagree. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2837
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:22 pm: |
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Ooooh what a shame all black woman aren't like the infallible Tonya who has all the answers, which of course is due to the fact that she supplies her own definitions and asks her own questions. Who needs her? Maybe somebody does. I don't. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 648
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 07:43 pm: |
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Or maybe it's your inability to comprehend.
You say I'm wrong for complaining about the technique while using it myself.
I say I NEVER complained about it. It was used against me (by whites and middle class blacks); therefore, I've learned to use the shit for myself.
Complaining about stereotypes is not what I do. I use my big ass mouth and what ever else I need to combat and try to dismantle them.
If middle class black women weren't too busy trying to save their own asses by being asses - for the whole world to see - maybe the self-hating two-faced whores would stop complaining and do the same.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 696
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 08:16 pm: |
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You know, Tonya
TECHNICALLLY---I'm "middle class black". Even "uppper middle class black".
LOL 
But I know what you mean. I'm with ya!
Couldn't resist the pun.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 722
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 08:49 pm: |
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Kola,
Obviously, you do not agree with her reaction. So, I ask, what would your reaction have been? Just curious. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 649
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 08:50 pm: |
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...LOL!!!
TECHNICALlY...... I'm a middle class black, too....LOL!
But I can't stand their attitudes towards other blacks so I'll probably never consider myself one.
Tonya |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 723
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 08:55 pm: |
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TONYA:
"But I can't stand their attitudes towards other blacks so I'll proably never consider myself one."
MOONSIGNS:
Tonya, do you feel social class divides people more than race/color?
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 698
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |
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Moon,
I would have pissed on the back seat, right away, to set up legal merit.
Later, I would have had given quite a different speech.
My belief is that most people of all races in this country are "White Supremacists"--otherwise the system would break down.
So I probably would not have even mentioned the cab incident in the auditorium, but would have spoken about my life's efforts at deconstructing WS and about my determination to give birth to my own image--and to kill those who try to kill that image; by any means necessary.
I also would have filed a complaint against the cab driver and the cab company----and-----if they didn't apologize to my satisfaction, I would have sued them, and I would have forced the school to provide me with everything I needed for a lawsuit---the moment I arrived on campus.
If the school didn't act swiftly in my favor--I would have sued them as well.
The author of the article reacted emotionally-- crying---which is why I have so much sympathy for her feelings and her pain. She was probably so upset she couldn't think straight and she's the type who doesn't like to fight or have confrontation.
And I'm the opposite of her---I cry VERY EASILY, at the drop of a pin. And I'm always expecting the unexpected.
But in that situation, I would never have cried.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 650
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:30 pm: |
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No, Moonie, I feel the exact opposite.
For white people this issue of "class" being the culprit is their attemp to replace racism, as the focus, with class. With affirmative action programs for blacks being gone,"racial quotas" will "at last" be gone. In addition to reducing their guilt, changing the focus from race to class strengthens their argument.
Coincidently, middle class blacks found a way to capitalize off of it, as well. By putting the emphasis on class as oppose to race, they're also hoping that it'll make race a non issue; which (they think) will serve as an escape from being marginalized.
The poroblem is that if they (both parties) get they're way, it'll take the focus off an issue that has NEVER been properly addressed -- one that so desperately needs to be for the prosper of poor, exploited, oppressed, and USUALLY DARK-SKINNED blacks.
Tonya |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 130
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:15 am: |
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I'm missing something here, so someone please enlighten me.
Kola, you claim that your response would not have been as "placating" and definitely would not have had that "Mammy-ending". Your response would have been to "piss on the back seat" (and I assume that you meant that figuratively, because clearly if you meant it literally, there would have been no speech for you to make other than the one you would have given to the judge at your bail hearing) and then you would "sue". On what grounds? The car service demanded payment for services rendered which they had ever right to do. Through no fault of Farai's, they had not been paid by the university. Clearly the driver was an ass, and someone at the school screwed up big time but you can't sue for stupidity. He had the right to be paid.
Farai used that fresh experience to expound on the lack of respect black women face daily. In that moment, heightened by her display of emotion, I can only imagine that the impact of her message was even more telling, and more readily received.
So, pray tell, how would not mentioning it and going off on some diatribe about birthing and killing your image have accomplished anything of any value? And what would the great white way of a lawsuit accomplish? I must be damn tired tonight 'cause I ain't gettin' it! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 700
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 01:08 am: |
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SOMEBODY arranged for this woman to be in a cab that would be paid by the School---which is a REGULAR business trade for both the Cab Co. and the School. They do this all the time.
Her own words:
The college agreed to send a car to pick me up. The ride was uneventful. And then we pulled up at the gates. "Twenty dollars," the driver said. Never mind that a cab would have cost me $7. I'd spent my cash on a hat and gloves, and besides, the university was supposed to pay.
I told him so. He said he didn't have a university number. I told him again: I'm not responsible for paying. Please call your supervisor and sort this out. It was the principle of the thing.
The minute he "locked" the doors, trapping her inside, calling the cops---he put undue stress on her.
She got scared and peed on herself from the profuse threats he was making.
The School brought her to town under the belief that her carfare was pre-paid or under levy of the Cab Co. through school expense.
LEGALLY...it doesn't matter that he "mistook" her for a crook. He should have (a) spoken to his cab company boss and (b) spoken to the school while she had them on the line.
BOTH those two parties are liable for the way this situation was handled, because she adequately explained her position to BOTH.
This situation was created BY THEM---not her.
Other than that, BABYGIRL, I'm not explaining anything else to your kind.
I've lived in this SAME WORLD that you have for damned near 40 years....and People understand me VERY WELL. You can bank on that.
Your non-objective hissing at me or claiming that...what I have to say is a "diatribe" and what she has to say ISN'T.....is just further proof of your incredulous attitude.
As I said earlier, she handled it HER way and I feel for her and respect her way.
But it wasn't aggressive enough to suit my tastes.
What is "valuable" is subjective.
Me, your neighbor, informing you that I will save my own children and watch yours drown---would be of GREAT value to you.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 651
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 03:20 am: |
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Farai:
should I diffuse conflict? Or should I behave as if my honesty were unassailable?
Tonya:
Should I rip off my wig, snap my fingers, roll my eyes, and get ugly like an ignorant ass "AUTHENTIC" black women would?
...Or should I just be a *LADY*?
Farai:
...we do this so others will see us as authentic, instead of showing our true, messed-up, divine and complicated selves.
Tonya:
With allies like her, "authentic" black women don't need enemies.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 702
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 03:26 am: |
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I wouldn't go that far, Tonya..
Not in the least.
Once again, I'm not putting down your opinion---just making it clear that mines is different from yours.
I don't think Farai is in any way an enemy of black women.
Not at all.
As I stated before, I'm more aggressive than she is and that's where my beef is.
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 131
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 07:39 am: |
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Tonya, there are many AUTHENTIC, black women, in varying degrees of dark, dark and darker who don't think it EVER necessary to "snap fingers, roll eyes, or act the ass", no matter what their situation. Such belligerent behavior serves no grand purpose other than to make the perpetrator seem less credible. But to each their own.
And Kola, you are so right. Folks understand you VERY WELL. I would reason better than you understand your selves on most days. Not commenting on the experience and filing a legal complaint later would have surely been more "aggressive" and of grand benefit to all, most especially, the attorneys. That would surely have gotten the larger point across. (I guess I wasn't so tired after all!) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 652
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 03:01 pm: |
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Kola,
People should know by now that you and I don't agree on EVERYTHING. And if they don't know, trust me, they will.
Babygirl:
Tonya, there are many AUTHENTIC, black women, in varying degrees of dark, dark and darker who don't think it EVER necessary to "snap fingers, roll eyes, or act the ass", no matter what their situation. Such belligerent behavior serves no grand purpose other than to make the perpetrator seem less credible. But to each their own.
Tonya:
I agree with the first part 100%, Babygirl, but I don't think she was referring to skin tone. I think she meant CUTURALLY authentic; and, believe it or not, MANY people (especailly blacks) view culturally authentic blacks that way.
As far as that behavior being belligerent and defeating the purpose... I don't know about that. Although I wouldn't be able to get away with it - it's not me and I don't have the wit to back it up - I do know some sistahs who are like that. They're usually witty, smart, sassy, cute, and can make a living out of getting their point across that way.... They do it well, because that's who they are. So you're right... to each their own. Or better yet, "just be you".
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 703
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 04:15 pm: |
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Might makes right.
Intimidation tactics are ENCOURAGED in males---but called belligerent and useless when BLACK females (the most unprotected, disrespected people in this country) employ them.
The same Black People who refused to protect these young girls cum women are the ones who detest their self-defense mechanisms, but allow much worse posturing in black males ie. rappers and gangbangers.
Of course, Babygirl is too high and mighty to have any understanding of the plight of those women who envoke that behavior---and she's too superior minded to acknowledge that their Bravado DOES contain power and does protect them just as quills protect certain fish species from being eaten down.
Notice how she continuously puts ME down---yet she's less effective and has less impact on the society than I do. Mainly because, she doesn't move outside of her perimeter. Her books are staid "safe" little tomes that congeal the status quo.
And her put downs reek of jealousy.
It's the truly mad and insecure who CHANGE the world and set the style.
Not the cold fish like Babygirl.
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 132
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 05:42 pm: |
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Kola, you are surely on a roll this afternoon, babycakes!
And once again, you view a query as an attack but for the life of me I cannot figure out why. I asked, you answered. Should have been a done deal, but no! I didn't necessarily see it as you saw it and suddenly "Babygirl is putting Kola down!" Same song and the violins is warming up for an encore! Someone get me a tissue!
Better yet, get over yourself. You HAVE nothing and ARE nothing. Most especially nothing anyone with an ounce of sense would be "jealous" over. It's about time you started singing a new tune, Kola, cause they are tired of playing, "Babygirl Done Put Me Down" on the message boards.
And you are correct. I am too high, too mighty, too superior in all things to give any credence to nonsensical BULLSHIT that does absolutely nothing but make the BULLSHITTERS look like fools. But you have at it. If that's what floats your miniscule boat, enjoy the ride. Personally, I have another "staid, safe little tome" to finish for my publisher, plus promoting the last release has kept me on the road more than it's kept me home. Oh, the tribulations, the tribulations! May you know my success some day, Kola.
And I'm sure that CHANGE is gonna come soon, huh, Kola? Mad, crazy and insecure leading the reins! Which book do you think you'll rock that'll put it over the top, make us all stand up and take notice so that you can point that wrinkled finger of yours and say, I told you so!, as the masses go stepping down to join the Kola brigade? I want to make sure I order my copy in advance so I can get me some tips. Being such a cold fish is just so depressing, girlfriend! I just wanna learn how to be a warm little guppy like you, babycakes! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 708
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 06:34 pm: |
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Babygirl,
Ater rattling off all the superlatives---the shading, etc.
You're still more interested in me...than I am in you.
ANYBODY can see that.
And just the fact that I am not "anonymous" and say the things I do for the whole world to hear......as opposed to you who talks big shit and hides behind the moniker "Babygirl"...........well that speaks VOLUMES about who's the real guppy here, WHY--N--CH.
So when you get up the nerve, the guts to email me as yourself with your bold and illustrious commentary---we'll all impressed.
Until then, you're just another jealous shrew nibbling at Kola's beautiful fingers.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 709
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 06:36 pm: |
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It's the truly mad and insecure who CHANGE the world and set the style.
Not the cold fish like Babygirl.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2850
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 07:44 pm: |
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Ooooh, Lord. I'm trying sooo hard. Help me Jesus but - but - but - after reading Kola's warped description of Moonsigns, and now her skewed view of Baby girl and then toppin it all off with the final blow - the love letter to herself, I cannot be still. Somebody! Pleeease save the world from this woman!
(Psst, Kola! This is the voice inside your head. Keep the muzzle on tonya, no matter how much she strains her leash. I think she's trying to upgrade her coarse image. Focusing on tonya will help you to ignore Cynique. I know it's hard, but this is a true test for your will power. Suck it in!) |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 133
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 08:42 pm: |
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You really are quite the card, Kola. Perhaps you'll be able to fall back on standup when that literary career falls to the wayside.
And there's no need for me to email you or anyone else to announce who I am. I assure you, there are many who are already impressed with my bold and illustrious commentary and they could care less who I may or may not be. So why do you? Just continue to be impressed. All that worry will just age you faster and you don't need any more wrinkles, dearheart.
You make me feel so special, Kola. It's like you hate it every time I stop by to honor you with my presence. Hate that I may say something that might explode all that hot air you ride around on. I'm like this annoying itch you wish would just go away but every so often I pop in and you just have to scratch 'cause it feels so damn good when you do. What I haven't figured out yet is why? Since you claim it is I who is so interested in you, then why do I or my questions bother you so? I would think they'd be inconsequential in the greater scheme of your grand existence. Hmmmm.....makes one ponder....
Okay, now cue up the choir...dim the lights. (Don't forget the tissues, Cynique)....the chorus will lead off as Kola takes the stage for her solo....and the singing begins....Babygirl is jealous! Babygirl is jealous, Babygirl is jealous, Woe is me! (Have Mercy! I done forgot the photo montage rolling on the screen behind Kola...just shift a little to the left Kola so the folks can see past that big head of yours, honey...okay, right there...now SING, babycakes....SING... |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 711
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:38 pm: |
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You really are quite the card, Kola.
(Spoken like a true imitation white bitch).
Perhaps you'll be able to fall back on standup when that literary career falls to the wayside.
(How much would you like to place on that in BETS? You really don't know the industry.)
And there's no need for me to email you or anyone else to announce who I am. (WIMP!)
I assure you, there are many who are already impressed with my bold and illustrious commentary
(More cowardly anonymous bitches)
and they could care less who I may or may not be. So why do you? Just continue to be impressed. All that worry will just age you faster and you don't need any more wrinkles, dearheart.
YAWNING
is that the BEST this bitch can do?
You make me feel so special, Kola.
No, that's your finger, WHY--N--CH
It's like you hate it every time I stop by to honor you with my presence.
No---it's the fact that you "dip" your words in a shitty tone and deliberately fling insults all under the guise of being ladylike.
Hate that I may say something that might explode all that hot air you ride around on.
You're not WOMAN ENOUGH, trick.
I'm like this annoying itch you wish would just go away but every so often I pop in and you just have to scratch 'cause it feels so damn good when you do. What I haven't figured out yet is why?
Your hatred of me and your intent to sling mud is more than obvious and always has been. So don't play that bullshit. You're the most predictable Nut-stain in here.
Since you claim it is I who is so interested in you, then why do I or my questions bother you so?
Your questions don't bother me in the least. It's the condescending phoney way you phrase them.
I would think they'd be inconsequential in the greater scheme of your grand existence. Hmmmm.....makes one ponder....
When I'm on this board..THIS is where I exist dumb ass.
Okay, now cue up the choir...dim the lights. (Don't forget the tissues, Cynique)....the chorus will lead off as Kola takes the stage for her solo....and the singing begins....Babygirl is jealous! Babygirl is jealous, Babygirl is jealous, Woe is me! (Have Mercy! I done forgot the photo montage rolling on the screen behind Kola...just shift a little to the left Kola so the folks can see past that big head of yours, honey...okay, right there...now SING, babycakes....SING...
You ARE jealous. Your constant claim that I'm NOTHING....never going to make it in the literary world, etc. (Cupped with your initial PRAISE of my writing talents) stands as proof of that.
There's no end to the PERSONAL things you don't like about me----my history, my choices, my beliefs, my career. And that's what you focus on.
Because you're JEALOUS. Anyone can see that.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 656
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:05 am: |
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I think the day we start blaming culturally authentic black African-Americans for the stereotyping and marginalization of black people worldwide will be the day that we seriously self-destruct.
............On second thought... maybe it's too late.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 657
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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Ooops, sorry guys. Don't mind me.... LOL! I don't always push the topics tab before I post. I didn't mean to get in the middle of y'all conversation.
Tonya |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 134
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:36 am: |
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Don't pop a blood vessel, sweetie! You've got your nipples all twisted and you're foaming at the mouth. Not a pretty sight, cupcake. Not a pretty sight at all. This is surely not something for you to be having a tantrum over, sweet cheeks.
Now, what you don't seem to understand or want to accept is that not only do I NOT HATE you, NOR am I JEALOUS of you, but I don't feel ANYTHING for you at all. YOU ARE inconsequential in the greater scheme of MY grand existence. You are of no value to me or for me and therefore your history, choices, beliefs, career and all else that embodies YOU amount to NOTHING as far as I am concerned. You are a cyber-entity on a message board and you disappear from my realms as easily as the POWER button permits. I don't understand why this is such a hard reality for you to grasp. Mixing too much medication and alchohol, per chance?
You were a curiosity, much like a carnival side-show freak, but once examined up close, you turned out to be far less interesting than was originally claimed. Dare I say, a true disappointment once all your grandeur was summarily tarnished. Now, you occasionally spout something that peaks my interest (as in this thread) and in turn I may question your rational. Rarely, as exemplified here, do I get a response that lends any credibility to you or your thoughts. Granted, I was hopeful none the less.
Oh, and by the way, I do like that comment, "you dip your words in a shitty tone and deliberately fling insults all under the guise of being ladylike." Quite poetic. And it just goes to show what one can accomplish without acting the ass, doesn't it? I didn't even break a sweat to get you feeling victimized. All I did was dip my words. How profound. Didn't have to holler, cuss, roll my eyes, type in bold faced font or nothing! Damn, I'm good! I just crack myself up!
Now, let me go back to something of actual importance 'cause this tit for tat, sticks and stones, I'm rubber your glue, sandbox tantrum crap is getting us absolutely no where. I'm sure all that energy you're wasting on telling my ass off could better be utilized elsewhere. Don't you have a book to finish or a man to do? I know I have both. Big Daddy be calling me right now. Sorry, but you'll have to finish playing in this sandbox all by your lonesome.
Have a good night, Kola! Let's not do this again soon, girlfriend! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 713
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:45 am: |
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Pop a blood vessel?
Foaming at the mouth?
Bullshit, Babygirl.
I write just as calmly as I speak. I don't have to YELL to curse----and I'm usually giggling when I tell off your kind.
And you're so SHALLOW. Your last post continued to prove my point.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 658
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:47 am: |
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Kola,
I think you should let her have it for this one:
"Didn't have to holler, cuss, roll my eyes, type in bold faced font or nothing!"
Cuz that kind of ruffled my feathers.... What she tryin ta say... LOL!
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 659
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:50 am: |
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(I'm usually giggling when I tell off your kind.)
...LOL! I'm usually doing the same... LOL!
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 135
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:58 am: |
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Go back to the swing set, Tonya. I'm sure someone will give you a push. First you be interrupting us big kids and now you want to be instigatin' some mess. Go back and play over there before you fall into this here sand. I'm trying to get Kola out so we can go play nice someplace else 'cause she just sinkin' deeper and deeper into this here pit. So, don't you be tryin' to start nothin'! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 660
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 01:03 am: |
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Oh, damn! You caught me.... LMBAO! |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 238
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 02:51 pm: |
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Just an observation. Does ANYONE here respect the view that ONE can have and express an idea whether that person agress or not..? I love all ya'll and havent even met ya, but this distresses me as I seek to engage in discourse that doesnt lead to getting cussed out or called a name because my view was different or at odds with the writter. Am I making sense.?
LiLi under a tad bit of stress loosing two Uncles within three weeks of each other |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 723
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 03:01 pm: |
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Lili,
You make perfect sense.
And that would not happen with you.
What you're not recognizing is that me and Babygirl are bitter enemies for personal reasons.
She's not just some poster voicing her opinion. Otherwise, I wouldn't have called her names and she wouldn't have called ME names.
She came to this board saying that I was a fake and viciously attacking me, my career and the publicity surrounding my career.
Cynique is another one who has a personal grudge---and although I've tried to be friends with her many times over the years---it just hasn't worked.
If you notice, Lili---those of us who get into name matches have a "History" with each other.
I would never talk to you like that, regardless of your opinion, because you have never presented yourself that way.
Sorry for the board.
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 239
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 03:18 pm: |
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I appreciate that much.
LiLi who tries very hard to practice R.E.S.P.E.C.T. while Im not perfect.... |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 882
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 03:48 pm: |
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this is article is indeed insight. It is also embedded in an individualism that I can appreciate but emphatically disagree with. The tensions she poses are one's humanity vs group identity....I chose both, to my chagrin. One is never stripped of race, class, gender, religion, etc...identity is really never fixed, because dialetically we are always moving in tandem with different manifestations of identity. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 240
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 03:51 pm: |
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Ok now someone tell me what Yukio said..?
LiLi just trying to understand |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2860
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 04:34 pm: |
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You flatter yourself, Kola. How could I have a "personal" grudge against you since I don't know you and have never met you? Just what is the nature of this grudge? You always try and make yourself the blameless one in the friction between us. But you are obsessed with my color and this is what motivates your regular outpouring of profanity and name calling. You start just as many arguments as anyone else because you have a short fuse and think your colorist views shouldn't be challenged. And you have to gall to paint yourself as a "victim." Puleeze. |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 136
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 05:45 pm: |
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Lili, my condolences for your losses.
Kola, if you and I are "bitter enemies for personal reasons", then you are the only one who recognizes what that reason is. Such is clearly of your own volition, not mine.
And if I am not "some poster voicing her opinion", then pray tell what else or who else might I be?
I am here just like anyone else, to question and learn. I pass time here like I pass time in front of the television watching some random piece of entertainment. I came to this board and ASKED you to validate claims YOU made, to discover and learn about Kola Boof. You didn't like the questions because I kept picking apart and finding fault with the answers. You claimed my tone offended you and deemed that you were under attack.
I like facts, neat and clean, able to be verified. Your "facts" were too gray, too muddy, easily refutable and therein came the discord between us. I refused to accept you at face value and you were beside yourself that anyone would actually challenge the validity of your statements and be factual about doing so. It also galled you that I was able to do so WITHOUT calling you names, posting asinine pictorials, and maintaining a decorum that you've since defined as a "ladylike quise".
Personally, I find most of our exchanges to be quite humorous. The sparring tends to inspire my creative spirit.
To feel that someone is a "bitter enemy" would require extreme emotional response to a body. As I noted previously, I don't FEEL anything for you one way or another. You once said that I took you too seriously, expecting too much of you, that you were just an entity on a message board. I think the truth would be more that I don't take you seriously at all and that just pisses you right off. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 664
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 06:41 pm: |
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"I don't FEEL anything for you one way or another."
See, now, I wouldn't take that.... (Okay... scatering back to my swing set)...
Pleeeeze forgive me! (LOL!) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 665
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 06:45 pm: |
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My bad -- I meant to say "scattering." I'm scattering back now. Forgive me! |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 137
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 07:25 pm: |
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(Shaking my head, hands on my hips)
Tonya, if you don't start behavin' like you done had some home trainin', you betta'. Always instigatin' some mess. I done tried a time out and you still won't listen. A hard head make fo' a soft behind. Go on now before I get me a switch off that tree over there. Don't make me whup yo' tail...
I swear, Cynique, we can't teach these youngin's nothin' these days.
Someone help Tonya up on that sliding board so she don't get hurt, please...chile' always up in somebody's Kool-aid and don't know the flavor...dippin' and dappin' and don't have a clue what's happenin'... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 666
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 08:36 pm: |
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...Sorry Mommy.. Sorry! Sorry!... Don't whip me... I'll behave (LOL!) |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 724
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 08:51 pm: |
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Babygurl,
You're so full of shit and such a liar.
But let's do it this way----you and I don't speak to each other, period. I'd prefer it that way.
And Tonya, while you're playing cutesy with this bitch---please keep my name out of it.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 883
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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LiLi: The latter part of Chideya's article focuses on the position that (a) race as a category is fixed:
The worst thing about any group identity is that it becomes fixed, Procrustean. We shave off little bits of our souls, or lop off whole limbs, to fit what we think suits "black" or "woman"... or "Asian" or "Christian" or "Muslim" or "gay" or "straight." We might join in crusades we don't believe in, or sit out battles we should engage in, in order to stay in the center of our herd. And we do this so others will see us as authentic, instead of showing our true, messed-up, divine and complicated selves.
(b) It is important for woman to be themselves. In other groups group identity can pressure the individual/human to do things that is often against their best interests in order to be viewed as "authentic". And Hence Chideya states: The most revolutionary thing you can tell a young black woman -- or anyone -- today is to be herself.
This is BS, to me. To tell a black woman to "be herself" does not preclude her of maintaining group identity. Part of Chideya's problem is that she conceptualizes identity as fixed when it is not. Few people, I suspect, think is such "fixed" terms. Instead, I believe, when people are themselves they behave in such a way that is an amalgamtion of their various identities....not one or the other...
I am an African American man, pan africanist, feminist, heterosexual....no do these identities conflict with eachother? Certainly, my way of panAfricanism is different from Kola's, my ideas about African American identity and practices are also quite different from many of you here....now, do I feel a responsibility to accept group values...definitely, but I do them my way...as I suspect most folk do.... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 667
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:25 pm: |
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...group identity can pressure the individual/human to do things that is often against their best interests in order to be viewed as "authentic". This is BS, to me. To tell a black woman to "be herself" does not preclude her of maintaining group identity. Part of Chideya's problem is that she conceptualizes identity as fixed when it is not. Few people, I suspect, think is such "fixed" terms. Instead, I believe, when people are themselves they behave in such a way that is an amalgamtion of their various identities....not one or the other...
Bravo!!!! Yukio, that's the point I wanted to make; but, of course, I could NEVER have done so as eloquant as you did.
Also, I found it distasteful she chose to insinuate that culturally authentic black women are not ladylike and are too "FIXED" and afraid to show their "true, messed-up, divine and complicated selves". We do it -- we do it all the time. It's just that nobody cares because oftentimes we do it our way, which doesn't always fit what's acceptable; therefore it's deemed unladylike.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 668
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:29 pm: |
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My bad- "as *eloquently* as you did."
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 138
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:01 am: |
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Kola, GROW UP.
Once again you don't like the message and suddenly the messenger is either "lying", "jealous", "white", and your list goes on and on and on.
You throw the first stones, "Babygirl is this", "Cynique did that", and when we toss boulders back you can't handle the pressure and it's suddenly, "don't talk to me".
That playground, grade-school, sandbox crap is played out. "They hurt my feelings and I'm not going to play with them no more!"
I know I'm too old for such trivial bullshit and in case you can't figure it out, so are you. But feel free NOT to respond, that's your choice. Between you, me and all the other's privy to this discussion, I'm not going anywhere. I will continue to challenge, question, discuss, poke fun, and do whatever else gives me a warm a fuzzy on this message board. |
Ntfs_encryption
Newbie Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 09:29 am: |
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"Babygurl,
You're so full of shit and such a liar.
But let's do it this way----you and I don't speak to each other, period. I'd prefer it that way.
And Tonya, while you're playing cutesy with this bitch---please keep my name out of it."
### Does this mean that you don't like either?
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 669
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
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Kola:
And Tonya, while you're playing cutesy with this bitch---please keep my name out of it."
Tonya:
Please don't get mad at me for what I'm about to say and pleeeeeze understand where I'm coming from:
IMO, as far as you and Babygirl are concerned...
Number one. The old cliche: Never let 'em see you sweat. Number two. Never take your critics too seriously. Number three. (And most importantly), NEVER let ANYONE get inside your head the way Babygirl has...
When you make it to the big leagues you're going to come up against sharks and critics that'll make Babygirl look like your closest ally. You CANNOT let THEM get to you this way or else you're gonna get Fucked-All-Up from the left and from the right ........................ And that CAN'T happen because you HAVE TO "MAKE IT" - not just for you - FOR ALL OF US.
Whether or not she's jealous of you and whether or not I agree with her philosophy, I'm not gonna get into that... but, I will say this... Babygirl is NOT A THREAT -- she's a CHALLENGE you MUST triumph over if you're gonna make it past go.
MAKE NO MISTAKE, if she were a threat I'd have your back all the way. But since she's a MUCH NEEDED CHALLENGE ................. I'll remain neutral.
...Unless she gets under my goddamn skin! Cuz you don't want none of this, Babygirl!!! (Okay... back to the swing set)....
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 670
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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ENCRYPTION:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::LOOKAHEAD:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::FUCKYOU!
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 139
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
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Tonya, you go, girl! Hard-headed and smart, too, but don't get too big for 'dem britches...You can still get yo' tail whupped...
It's all good...might even let you come over here to play dodgeball with the big kids... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 671
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:51 am: |
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Oooh, really? Can I play... Can I play??? (LOL!)... |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 728
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
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Hello, everybody:
Whoa!!! What happened to the "respect"? A'ight, I'm gonna leave this stuff alone and talk about the article (LOL)
I like what you brought up, Yukio, about racial identity/racial categories as fixed (or not). I was thinking about this as I watched the P-Funk documentary last night with my husband. Like the music they played, those of us who listened to it and took some of the P-Funk mythology to be our own were, to a great extent, deciding *not* to fit into any "fixed" categories of Blackness.
"Blackness" could include nouveau African tribal elements, straight ahead rock and roll, soul, funk, gospel, long musical forms adapted from jazz and classical--all with a healthy dose of comic book culture thrown in. I did not feel any less "Black" listening to P-Funk growing up.
But here on this board I have argued with folks who would proclaim that there is some authentic (i.e., fixed) Blackness.
Maybe I am in error presuming "fixed" and "authentic" are one in the same (or, that being the latter presupposes the former). If so, I apologize to those of you who have put forth arguments of authenticity.
I am taking a risk bringing this up here. Some of those previous conversations left a bad taste in my mouth, as I felt they got unnecessarily mean-spirited. I guess I'll end by throwing out my take on another pair of words: "agreement" and "respect." I think it is possible for people to respectfully disagree. I always welcome such difference of views planted firmly in respect.
Take care! Hope everyone is having a great Monday. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 672
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:33 pm: |
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Hi Yvette!
First off, respect garners respect. So if you feel you're taking a "risk" by engaging this (and other) conversations, then maybe you should be asking *yourself* why it is you feel that way.
...Just a thought.
I think Yukio was saying that "identities" are not fixed. I'm the one who implied that sub-cultures ("authentic blackness") are not fixed and I did that because they're not. Within Authentic black culture you'll find an array of personalities. Yes, we usually have the same goals and some of the same outlooks, but who we are, in terms of personalities and the decision making process, varies. Also... We are not "FIXED" partly beacuase our goals and means of achieving them doesn't require us to drastically adhere to what's "acceptable".
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2870
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:45 pm: |
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I find it amusing that Kola is being portrayed by Tonya as some sophmoric fledling taking her first tenative steps into battle and sorely in need of advice from some wise bystander who knows the ropes. Kola and Baby girl are peers but are also rivals and Babygirl is a threat to Kola. Anybody who challenges Kola is a threat but not because Kola's personality is high strung but because what she preaches is not the gospel; it's creationalism not evolution - or revloution. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2871
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 01:04 pm: |
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Yvette, be not deterred by people who brow-beat. Yours is the voice of reason and although I can't resist participating in the verbal fireworks that pass for differences of opinion, I know reason when I hear it and I appreciate it. Naturally, I agree with what you just said about "authentic" and "fixed" blackness and once again I am grateful for people who save me the trouble of adding my 2 cents especially when it's done with eloquence and clarity. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 673
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 01:05 pm: |
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Cynnique:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::LOOKAHEAD:::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::YOU GOT MY NUBER::::::::::::::::: |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2872
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 01:16 pm: |
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Um, that was supposed to be "fledgling" not "fledling" and "revolution" not "revlolution" in my other post. Now, is that supposed to be "number" or- "nuber", a word I've never heard of? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 674
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 01:34 pm: |
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HA-HA! Cynnique, You're a safe bet.
...I didn't even try to correct myself (you know the "my - bad I meant to say..." routine) Cuz - I swear to god - I knew you'd do it for me. (LOL!)
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 732
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 02:37 pm: |
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TONYA,
first of all....
Babygurl does not get in my head. She simply ANNOYS me.
I don't like the bitch, PERIOD. And you weren't here....I repeat....YOU WERE NOT HERE when that came about.
And as I said before, leave my fucking name out of your correspondence with her.
I don't speak to her and have nothing to say to her. She's not a challenge, she's not a threat, she's not in my head.....she's a straight up Kola-Hater and therefore a WASTE of my time.
She has....NONE OF THE POWER...you ascribed to her.
And I've got FAR MORE than you ever ascribed to me--in your underestimations of me.
She and Cynique and others have been GANGING UP on me for YEARS....and they're still nothing but rock bottom in the pond.
It's because of women like them that their children were enslaved for 400 years----until the WHITE PEOPLE took pity and freed them (they never freed themselves)---so I could give a fuck what they have to but AS PEOPLE, I don't like them, they don't like me----we don't get along, although God knows I've tried.
It's that fucking simple.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 733
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 02:49 pm: |
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And let me tell you something, YVETTE.
I don't know how anybody could claim that PARLIAMENT wasn't the "blackest" black group on the scene when they hit.
Their music was authentic BLACK MUSIC.
Their outrageous costumes, etc. were as monolithic as any Witch Doctor or African Tribe's.
Chaka and Rufus, Parliament, Brothers Johnson, LaBelle---it was authentic BLACK MUSIC.
Blacks created rock and roll.
So your whole post to me is totally unrelated to what Yukio said.
Yukio pointed out black people's FAILURE to honor themselves by all these day-glow assignations---as Farai did (and we all do)---EXAMPLE:
It's similar to those who say: "I don't limit myself to dating only black."
As if there's some LIMIT to the Humanity and Experiences within Blackness.
Farai, in her INTERNALIZED anger and rage decided to find peace and meaning the way black women have always done it----by erasing a piece of HERSELF as a coping strategy.....and not erasing the outside forces that attacked her.
Which was my point from GO.
It's a Mammy tactic---no different than the L.A. riots when black folks burned down their OWN neighborhoods...rather than reign war on the luxury White neighborhoods that surrounded them.
They didn't have the guts.
Blackness is NOT something that limits us from having credence with God, as she seemed to infer. It's not a hindrance or even tangible. It's just a FACT. She is black.
She can act like Olivia Newton John (as I do on some days) and she's still BLACK.
I didn't care for her speech----but I respect her attempt to COPE and deal with the situation the best she could. I am not in her shoes. But I don't think the article had anything...not ANYTHING to do with "Respect".
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 676
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:03 pm: |
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"...leave my fucking name out of your correspondence... It's that fucking simple."
Fair Enough.
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2876
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:06 pm: |
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...and in the background a chorus of violins play, directed by that old snot-colored, diaper-wearing, cruddy-toed, house-nigga-bitch cynique. Did I miss any of the other names Kola regularly calls her? And Lord knows how Cynique has tried to explain to everyone how gorgeous she really is. A combination of Shirley McClain and Joan Collins, 2 of her contemporaries. And not only is Cynique gorgeous, she is GLAMOUROUS! Never goes out on the town without wearing her white ermine stole and diamond earrings and satin evening gown! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2877
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:08 pm: |
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Oh-oh! Kola is on the rampage! Take cover, everybody! |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 140
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 04:47 pm: |
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ROFLMBAO! Cynique, you are truly a Goddess, and right funny, too! Just love that ermine stole! |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 141
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 04:53 pm: |
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Rampage my behind. Kola ain't doing a thing but WHINING again, and that same sad song, They's Ganging Up On Me. Choir done sang the chorus so much they've forgotten how to sing anything else. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 678
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 05:08 pm: |
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Cynnique, I see you still haven't figured me out. Thanks anyway. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 729
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 05:52 pm: |
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Their music was authentic BLACK MUSIC.
I agree, Kola: 100%. However, you and I perhaps have different memories of being P-Funk fans in the 70s: This was NOT how their music was recived at the time. I am talking pre-"Atomic Dog." I do not think there was a Black radio station in the country that had "Maggot Brain" in rotation, for example.
And I, too, bristle at the statement about "limiting" oneself to dating Black people. To me this is not limit. Anyone who thinks so must just be greedy (LOL!)
I was thinking about Yukio's point about "fixed-ness"--and I think my take-off on that is still valid. Can identities change, morph? Are they ever stable? And if not (either in total or in part) how does one maintain "authenticity"?
To me these are interesting questions. And I hesitated to bring this topic into the discussion because I know people's feelings on the topic run so deep. I keep sensing, though, that there is a lot more common ground between all us diverse personalities than any of us seems willing to admit.
I could be wrong, however. Perhaps that is just the "peacemaker" in me talking (*smile*) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 679
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 06:57 pm: |
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Being whatever is acceptable in order to get ahead is NOT an identity. It's more like possessing FAKE ID....... And nobody's forcing Farai (or anyone) to be authentic. Bottom line: if she were completely comfortable with her own personal indentity, she wouldn't give a shit about this so called "FIXED" group identity (i.e. authentic blackness).
I agree 100% with Yvette if she's implying that identities undergo change. But as I said before, doing what's acceptable ( for specific reasons) is not an identity.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 734
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 07:09 pm: |
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You're right, Yvette.
As I think a LOT of people are going to be surprised when they read my autobiography. How right you are.
And Tonya's right, too. Blacks are so used to "faking" via double-concsciousness that they don't even realize when they're bullshitting themselves and (Accidentally) degrading themselves.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 680
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 07:21 pm: |
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(how does one maintain "authenticity"?)
Certain people don't. AND THAT'S FINE.
But it appears Farai is preaching that one needs to do whatever it takes to get ahead... and what's so dangerous about that is she's doing it under the pretext of "just be yourself"; yet, it's not being yourself, it's doing what it takes.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 681
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 07:29 pm: |
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Exactly, Kola. You always say what I'm thinking so much better than I do. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 890
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:06 pm: |
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I think Farai's article had good intentions, but perhaps it was poorly conceptualized. I would turn her position on its head and argue that people, black women in this case, should be their authentic selves, which is, as Farai states, " messed-up, divine and complicated."
Farai's first error was the assumption that identity is fixed, though it is true many people perceive race, for example, to be fixed and actually try to live out their lives according to such an understanding. And her second error was the assumption that being black or female, etc...meant that you constrained or limited yourself. YBoth error stem from a conflation of what people think with the actual lived experience of identity. Conceptually we can create these fixed notions, but our lived experience prevents us from being black and then female and then working class, etc....all of these factors occur simultaneouly. And though they conflict, this tension is the substance of the fluidity of identities. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2883
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:25 pm: |
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To me, Ferai's real flaw is her personality. Anybody who was intimidated the way she was is obviously a fragile, sensitive albeit intelligent woman. Face it. She was not a tough sista-girl bitch. Not every black woman is. She is who she is and she confronts the world on her own terms. Who is to judge her? Give her credit for gaining insight from introspection. She has come to terms with who she is and holds fast to her dignity. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 893
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:42 pm: |
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Well said elder Cynique. I, for one, am not addressing at all her dignity, only her analysis. I don't judge her, as in right or wrong. I examined her positions, for she is certainly making postions, though their intent, it seems to me, is to make herself and audience feel good about their individuality. Existentially and conceptually, her position is illogical, however. This is my only criticism. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2885
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 09:57 pm: |
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Thanks Yukio and Babygirl for throwing the elderly goddess Cynique a few bouquets. And, Tonya, - whatchoo talkin bout, Willis? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 684
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:13 pm: |
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You got me - Arnold!
As for Farai being criticized -- when a person in her position goes around asserting that Authentic blackness is somehow flawed becuase it's in some ways "FIXED", she deserves ALL of the criticism she's gotten on this thread. Especailly since her assertion is both offensive and is the thing that's actually flawed. In short, the act of judging was just.
Tonya |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 242
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 12:34 pm: |
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Kola: years ago I had the "honor" of taking some of the P-Funk members from Columbus to Dayton. Had a blast.
Yukio: Thanks I understand ::looking crosseyed::
Babygirl: Thanks !
To all: This is a great experience for me to listen..if you will..to folks who even when they dont agree at least they are saying SOMETHING.
LiLi off to ponder... |
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