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AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » Culture, Race & Economy - Archive 2005 » November 22, 1963 « Previous Next »

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West_africa
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Username: West_africa

Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2005

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Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 02:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On November 22, 1963 John F. Kennedy, President of the United States was assassinated in Dallas, Texas.

Many of President Kennedy's actions were meant to help improve the strategic societal position of "Blacks" in the United States.

An anniversary of this obscenity will occur in about 30 days.

The time for silly games and trivial diversions has been long over.
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 04:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My observations about John F. Kennedy are that his assassination turned him into a martyr whose "canonization" was undeserved. He was not the stauch compassionate Liberal that black folks like to believe he was and his voting record as a senator reflected this. He was first and foremost a politician, and a ruthless one at that, with his pit bull brother Bobby as his henchman. Everything Kennedy did was calculated and motivated by his pursuit of power. Of course, there's nothing unusual about this because that's true of all politicians. But the Camelot myth was just that, a figment of Jacqueline Kennedy's imagination, and the idea that Kennedy was some kind of a savior for black people is greatly exaggerated. Like George Bush, JFK was a white man from a privileged family who grew up ignorant to the struggle of black people until it was to his advantage to focus on this because it meant securing him votes. But Kennedy was against the 1963 March on Washington because he didn't want to offend white middle America, and Bobby kept Martin Luther King under constant survelliance because King was a thorn in the side of The Administration, who also needed to woo southern Democrats. I cried like everyone else when Kennedy was shot, but down through the years, the true picture of the man gradually began to emerge. He was not a bad guy, but certainly not someone to be idolized.
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Anunaki3600
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Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 02:59 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are right on the mark Cynique. I also think that JFK had the opportunity to pass the civil rights act but failed to do so. He had many opportunities to pass progressive legislations BUT he did not do so because he was too busy trying to lick Marylynn Monroes (sp?) Pu$$y. JFK was just another reactionary Pu$$y wipped white cat.
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West_africa
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 01:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Both "Cynique" AND "Anunaki3600" are absolutely wrong in the above statements, and they are wrong on almost every point they make.



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Chrishayden
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Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 01:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

West_Africa:

As the Ace #1 Cynique Basher in the Universe you can take my word that if she was wrong on anything above I would be on her like white on race.

Do a little reading up on the Kennedy clan.
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West_africa
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 02:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They are wrong.

The time for this Sunday school childishness is over.
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you really Slo-Poke??? You must've had a personality transplant.
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Anunaki3600
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Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 04:39 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just read the statements written by West_africa. It's amazing how wise he is and I cannot understand why he has not as yet won the nobel prize for literature. His writing skills and argument skills can only be compared with the greatest writers not yet born. GET A LIFE or go choke on some fried Plantain dude if the best you can say is what I read above. R U in elementary school??
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West_africa
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 02:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Dude" is not a term used in that way by African-Americans.

We'll consider the source and leave it at that.

Nuff said, chumpie.
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West_africa
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 03:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

President Kennedy had a brother named Robert Kennedy who is also owed consideration and the grace of remembrance by the African-Americans (as well as the entire United States).

His efforts were abused and underappreciated by both Martin Luther King and a large percentage of the "civil rights" movement.

Martin Luther King was an naive troubador in a strategic reality that was and is severe and far beyond his simplicism.

Robert Kennedy was a party the African-Americans could trust, and he stood his ground with realism, not some dreamy delusional positionalism.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, Bobby put on his compassionate liberal hat after his brother got his brains blown out. But still what did he ascccomplish, living or dead? At least MLK had the guts to speak out against the Vietnam fiasco.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, Bobby put on his compassionate liberal hat after his brother got his brains blown out. But still, what did he really accomplish, living or dead? At least MLK had the guts to speak out against the Vietnam fiasco.
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West_africa
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 08:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin Luther King spoke out against the war in VietNam in order to enhance his power base.

Martin Luther King did not have an appropriately thorough understanding of the situation in and related to VietNam.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Another conservative Republican!

Well no wonder you tried to make me a white woman, WestAFrica.

And thanx for the threat. I got your IP address, motherfucker.

Just remember that when you're sitting on the toilet reading T.V. Guide.




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Chrishayden
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 10:22 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

West Africa you don't know what you are talking about.
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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:25 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cyn: You are correct. In fact, black folk have a history of embracing white folk who they believed to have done something in their favor. The Kennedy Clan responded to the black movement when white folks lives were threatened! Similarly, FDR also responded to black folk once they voted for him in 1936. Black's response was based on the New Deal programs, which were unequally distributed. The ND programs were significantly because it was the first time, since Reconstruction that the federal government actually addressed needs black community. But of course, we know that the Depression was a national problem..thus these programs were suppose to be for everyone, not just blakc folk. The only federal response that one can say addressed racism, Exectutive order 8802, which recreated the FEPC, was poorly administered! And it required A philip randolph to threaten to march on washington...this only has significance during wwii, since the US attempted to claim that it was democractic and antiracism unlike Germany...thus the ex. order 8802 was an early attempt at multiculturalism; such hypocracy anticipated the cold war! And we know, of course, that Lincoln wanted to save the union, not the slaves....

Perhaps, this has something to do with our Christianity...don't know!
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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:45 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is quite interesting, isn't it? cynique, kola, and chrishayden are all, so it seems, in agreement. Who knew of west_africa's power !
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:48 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FDR who was also the product of wealth and privilege, was certainly considered the great white father, especially since he was in office for 4 terms. But as I just recently learned while watching a documentary on him, he greatly admired the gentility of the southern culture and never would sign an anti-lynching bill because he didn't want to offend his southern constituency. He resisted passing this legislature in spite of the fact that his wife continually urged him to do so. Eleanor Roosevelt was the true crusader for racial injustice, and she fought for it all of her life.
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:54 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ha-Ha, Yukio. Maybe truth unites us, and race divides us. You can't argue with the truth but there are so many variables when it comes to the subject of race that everybody has their own version of the truth which is why we are all a part of the problem instead of the solution.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:57 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

Speak for yourself.

I AM the solution!
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:09 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, Chrishayden, you're the solution all right; a murky toxic liquid that should never be ingested. Translated: an obnoxious drip.
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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 05:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique, I don't think race divides....ideas about race, and of course racism, divide. This, I feel, is an important distinction.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 06:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And since "race" is a social construct--but color isn't, let's not forget that the core activator in racism is colorism, which compounds the degrees to which behavior is conducted.



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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 10:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola_boof- I disagree with: "the core activator in racism is colorism." The core activator in racism is race not colorism. Colorism is a component, but not the "core." Colorism does address these issues at the institutional level. At the interpersonal level fairer skinned blacks may obtain privileges, but at the institutional level the fair skinned person will not escape racism. My opinion only!
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But what is the core reason that they won't escape racism?

Color.

Mariah Carey claims that she hasn't experienced racism from WHITES...only from blacks.

Ditto Vin Diesel.

Which again---proves my point.

And light skin is not "fair" and dark skin "unfair".

We need to get rid of these violently racist language terms.



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Rustang
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 12:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would have to agree with Yukio on questioning color being the core activator.There are countless examples of attempted genocides in which the perpetrators and the victims were very similar in appearance, like the serbs and croats, the tutsis and hutus, chairman Mao's thought reform camps, etc...It is my opinion that for however long 'these people' can accurately identify 'those people' there will be another genocide on the horizen.The only role color plays in that is that it makes it easier to identify 'those people'.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 02:15 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're referring to the "Blue eyed" WHITE people vs. the "Brown eyed" WHITE people.

Blue, green, gray eyed people tried to wipe out the Brown eyed people in SERBIA.

COLOR





Read HITLER's "Mein Kamph"---his dark hair and blue eyes served as an intermediate (as biracials do); him fighting to save the Aryan (blonde, blue eyes) as PROOF Of his allegiance as he destroy any and all WHITES who were non-pure in whiteness; namely Jews, who in their natural state don't have blond hair/blue eyes but are dark haired with brown eyes and big noses at "base".

Gypsies, Greeks and Sicilians and Dark Italians were also targeted, but he didn't stay alive long enough to get to them.




COLOR




**Color is the core activator in racism.



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Kola_boof
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 02:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RACE WARS

Tutsis and Hutus of Rwanda.
(Both are dark skinned black)
(Biracial Tutsiis are lighter, however)


Arabs vs. Southerners of Sudan.
Both are BLACK
(Deep chocolate kill the Charcoals)



COLOR

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Rustang
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 11:33 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That would seem to illustrate the point very well.:-)In the case of the Serbs and Croats it isn't skin color.They had to fall back on something more subtle like eye color.In the case of the Tutsis and the Hutus, there must be some way to tell them apart, but I sure couldn't pick up on it when it was all over the news.As far as I could tell, they looked the same.Color had absolutely nothing to do with that particular case of racism.You say that biracial Tutsis are lighter.I'm thinking that a biracial Hutu would also be lighter in complexion, depending on what the other half of that biracial equation was.:-)The point being that there are clear cases of racially motivated hatred in which color is not a factor,since the skin tone of the people involved is the same.Ignorant hatred transcends color differences.It is my opinion that even if everyone on earth was exactly the same color, ignorance, hatred and racism would still be running wild, because a whole bunch of people are just plain ignorant and hateful.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 01:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're not an African Rustang.

The Tutsis and Hutus are not the same color, although T.V. might make it appear that way.

One group was raped by the Dutch. The other is PURE. The raped side is clearly MY COLOR.

And I maintain that "racism" DOES INDEED go by the Two Polar Opposites Syndrome---Black vs. White and is the CORE ROOT of "racism".

That is how the "social construct" was constructed in the first place.

Japan (the Whitest Asian nation) has always oppressed-attacked China and Korea, much "darker skinned" Asian nations.


A White looking black person like Mariah Carey has experienced LESS racism than a Non-Black Dark looking person....CHER.

Do you see?

NOTHING is ever absolute---but overall, I do believe that "COLOR", as the sociologists say, is the root activator in Racism.



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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 01:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a good discussion. I think we need to have some common ground here, however.

When I think of Tutsis and Hutus and Croats and Serbs, I think of ethnic or tribal wars, not race, so I need some clarification.

Do these groups use language that is based on socalled "race" or as Rustang says, "these people" vs. "those people"?

--------------
When I think of colorism, I think of issues that pertain to shade, whereby the shade not race determines one's access to power.

When I think of race, I mean the separation of people based on biological and physiological differences that constitute racial groupings.

When I think of racism, I mean the political, economic, social, etc...exploitation of people based on the assumption of racial inferiority race, not color.

---------------
Thus, to anwer Kola's question "what is the core reason that they won't escape racism?"

In the example you use, MC and VD are discriminated against based on their color. This is not racism, however. At the individual level it is about color...shade. Now, racial factors are implicit, of course. Racism creates the conditions for colorism to do its work. Thus, racism is the core activator in colorism.

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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 01:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Color is only a component of racism, never the core activator. As I see it, the exploitation of different groups occur first. Then, at least in the US, the exploiters argue that the exploitation of one group is based on "race." But if we return to the initial "core activator" it was based on using black bodies for labor purposes. Then laws were pass that codified slavery. Then laws were passed to codified racial distinction, such as the ODR. In other words, various forces were activated so that white people could maintain the rein of power. It is through this persistent fight that these issues of race and color came about....

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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 04:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with you, Yukio. BTW, in regard to my original statement, I meant to say that DISAGREEMENTS about race divide us. But my observation that we all embrace our own truths stands, and as I have said before where the debate about colorism is concerned, the truth is a chameleon.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 04:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio:

Color is only a component of racism, never the core activator. As I see it, the exploitation of different groups occur first.

Tonya:

Usually the groups with the brownest skin... right?

Yukio:

Then, at least in the US, the exploiters argue that the exploitation of one group is based on "race." But if we return to the initial "core activator" it was based on using black bodies for labor purposes.

Tonya:

What made these bodies "black"? Dark brown skin... right?

I think there's no question that color is the core activator of racism and that people refuse to admit the obvious for selfish political reasons.

Btw, Tonya felt that way (and many ways) WAAAAAAAY before she even heard of Kola Boof. So don't even trip, Nique-Nique!

Tonya
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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 04:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, who even mentioned your name, Tonya. EWE. As soon as I saw the Tasmanian devil was on the loose again, I rolled up my windows.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 06:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rustang:

It is my opinion that even if everyone on earth was exactly the same color, ignorance, hatred and racism would still be running wild, because a whole bunch of people are just plain ignorant and hateful.

Tonya:

First of all, this cracks me up because people say it all the time.


IF...

If people were all the same color .............. ignorance hatred and racism would still be rampant.

When you look at the first part of that sentence, it plainly acknowledges that color is indeed the main issue. And the second part only points out that even *IF* color didn't exist somthing else would be the main issue.

NONE of it says color isn't the main issue -- It just says *IF* - so what's the point. Why do people make that argument when they're trying to suggest that color isn't the main issue?



Tonya


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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 09:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio:

Color is only a component of racism, never the core activator. As I see it, the exploitation of different groups occur first.

Tonya:

Usually the groups with the brownest skin... right?

No. It depends on the example. Nazism was a form of racism, which believed that the Aryan race was superior to others. Here, color was not the issue because Nazist conceptualizes race based upon nationality and blood NOT phenotype.

If we are talking about blacks and whites. The answer is also, NO. Black people, according to race logic, make up one racial group. White people make up another racial group. Visually speaking one group is darker than the other. BUT, like the Nazi case, the issue is about the assumption that one group is superior to the other. Phenotype in this case allows one to see who is white and who is not.

Color or shade, on the other hand, is a different story. If a dark skinned brother and a light skinned brother was going for a job, neither would be hired IF the employer is racist. BECAUSE the company doesn't want blacks regardless of color! On the other hand, during the twenties light skinned women obtained jobs in the Cotton Club, where as dark skinned women were generally excluded. This is colorism and racism.

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Kola_boof
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 09:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio, this statement is DEAD Wrong, my brother:

Nazist conceptualizes race based upon nationality and blood NOT phenotype.

ARYAN, the word itself, stands for PURITY of whiteness. And it most definitely DISCRIMINATES against those whites (Italians, Sicilians, Jews, Palestinians) who are DARK WHITE.

In Serbia---there is a word similar to "nigger" for those who have BROWN EYES and white skin.



One more time.....


Dark NON-BLACK woman "CHER"

CherCher

Cher

....has experienced more racism than

white looking MARIAH CAREY (who says she hasn't experienced it directed at her).

Mariah





Even when it's Hair color or Eye color....it always has some "BASE" in COLOR.

COLOR is the root activator of racism.

Notice that "Ethnic Bias" such as East Coast Blacks against West Coast Blacks.....can be gotten over.

Color wars last FOREVER.









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Yukio
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:09 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The issue, however, is still not phenotype. It is the assumption that these differences make up RACIAL differences, in which color is a component.

I don't know about CHer and her experiences of racism. Perhaps, she was discriminated against, but discrimination is different from racism.

Again, if may seem like semantics, but it is a important distinction. Race is different from color although they often work hand in hand. Racism is present when black people regardless of color are discriminated against based on their race NOT color. Colorism, as I understand it, is based upon discrimination based on color not race, so that IF Cher is discriminated against it could be based on her "dark" color, which is a representation of her ethnicity not race.

Nazism has nothing to do with being white.
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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Acknowledging that colorism and all of its ramifications exists solves no problems because people can't really change their color. Yes, they can change their minds about color, but at what sacrifice? And why should some have to do more sacrificing than others? We're dealing with humans, not saints. In America, the quest to combat the racist exploitation of the majority is not viable because the minority has a shifting identity and no collective consciousness that unifies. Even the commonality of racism fails as an effective rallying point because racism is, itself, exploited by minority leaders with personal agendas. All the explanations and politicizing and interpreting and theorizing are academic. Things that people can't solve are inevitably left to Nature, which operates in the realm of the greatest good for the greatest number. Life happens, and those who survive are those who adapt. Only time will tell who makes the cut. And in this country, the great melting pot simmers on.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 02:07 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PLEASE note:

Cher has stated....

...that in the 1970's when she recorded the song "HALF BREED"---which had to do with her being half White/half Cherokee

...it was her COLOR

...that CBS initially feared when deciding whether or not her and Sonny Bono's t.v. show could air during...THE FAMILY HOUR...instead of later at 9 or 10.

Earlier in the 1960's....she was ordered to wear BLEACHING CREAM when she and Sonny made the film "Good Times" and their record company also worried if their sales would be effected by her "dark" coloring.

So you are WRONG YUKIO. She did not suffer "discrimination" that was not COLOR based.

Many White Actors freely admit they are half Indian----but if their skin is very white; nobody cares.

Cher points that out.

She also credits "THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT" with making it possible for her to break down barriers in the 1970's and become a superstar.

For instance---her being cast in "The Witches of Eastwick" was by insistence of Jack Nicholson, who was shocked that the studio thought that SUPERSTAR "CHER" was too "ethnic looking" (dark) to be in the movie.

SOPHIA LOREN also mentions that her "dark coloring" kept her from getting several major roles in the late 1950's and 1960's-----despite her superstar status----her looks weren't "WHITE ENOUGH", according to her autobiography.




NOTE: After Sonny and Cher divorced----Sonny married a beautiful dark brown BLACK woman and that woman alleges that CHER completely flipped out and wouldn't speak to him for 3 years after that, because she felt INSULTED to have been replaced by a Black woman.


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Yukio
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 04:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola Boof: I am not "wrong." I already stated that I didn't know and I qualifed my statements with the word "perhaps." Nevertheless, I do get your point, but still disagree. As I see it, her color was the indicator not the core activator. It indicated another ancestry--native American. What was considered another race. Racism is one group again power over another group. Phenotype indicates or identifies these made up groups. Color, as I understand it, within this society is about shade, but still within a racist configuration.

Now, and I might be reaching, since you're modus operandi concerns the influences of color, you apply a certain logic to any case, regardless of time and place and group. This doesn't hold in society. It is more contingent and specific to time and place.

As I understand these terms--race, ethnicity, nationality, etc...--they call indicate this issue of color, but they operate differently according to time, place, and the category. There is racism, ethocentrism, and nativism. Color can be apart of all, but their origins and operation in society is different. These differences stem from political power and labor relations, which for me at least are the real "core activators."
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:07 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Martin Luther King spoke out against the war in VietNam in order to enhance his power base.

Martin Luther King did not have an appropriately thorough understanding of the situation in and related to VietNam."

### It's mindless drivel like this that is written for the emotional response and not for serious political or intellectual debate. The writer is either a stealth racist provocateur or a moron. Take your pick.
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Rustang
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 02:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Tonya: No, that sentence does not plainly acknowledge that color is the main issue.A reformulation of the sentence which says exactly the same thing would be 'Even with a total lack of any distinguishing physical characteristic, ignorance, hatred and racism would still run rampant.'The reason for this is obvious.Racism is one of many symptoms of a problem. It is not the root problem.How obvious this actually is might depend on an individual's personal circumstances, but to some extent it will become apparent, if one just looks around themselves for a moment.I am fortunate enough to have lived in texas for quite a while now.Texas is populated by a very hateful and ignorant people.They will go out and find someone to hate if none present themselves as a target of their stupidity.They do this for one reason.Once you've run out of people to despise and blame, and your life is still not what you think that it ought to be, then you have no one left to blame but yourself.This thrusts a responsibility on a person that they would rather jump into a fist fight with a grizzly bear than accept.I have seen this in white people, black people, asian people, jewish people, etc...Give me someone to hate, not something to do.I want people to blame, not people to understand.Enemies, not responsibilties.'The black race being watered down' is a perfect example of this.It's the perfect enemy to use in order to avoid self-examination.It doesn't have it's headquarters in Pittsburg, you can't get your hands on it, it's so vague that any clash between what's happening in the world between my ears and the world of reality can easily be attributed to my miasmic enemy rather than something flawed in my map of reality.If I choose to engage myself in this behavior then I will be of no use to anyone around me.
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's what I'm talking about, Rustang. The REAL world, as opposed to the abstract one intellectualized by the parameters of language.
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West_africa
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 07:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it true or not true that the Nobel Peace Prize is financed by revenues largely related to profits related to the making of war?

Is it true or not true that Martin Luther King reveled in the fact that he was selected for this Nobel Peace Prize?

OF NOTE: "The problem of the inventor's and scientist's social responsibility was taken up by Albert Einstein in a speech in 1945, after the atom bombs were dropped over Japan in August of that year. Einstein pointed out that the physicists in 1945 were in a situation which much resembled that in which Alfred Nobel once found himself. Einstein drew his conclusion from this: "Alfred Nobel invented an explosive more powerful than any then known -- an exceedingly effective means of destruction. To atone for this 'accomplishment' and to relieve his conscience, he instituted his award for the promotion of peace."

SOURCE: http://nobelprize.org/nobel/alfred-nobel/biographical/tagil/

Is it true or not true that in 1973 Marlon Brando was awarded the Oscar, an Academy Award, for his role in The Godfather, AND chose to DECLINE the award to protest the treatment of Native Americans in the U.S. --- is this true or not true?

Martin Luther King does not compare in character to the integrity of Marlon Brando in 1973, and the power of that example: to decline the offer on principle.

More importantly, however, King probably never even considered declining the award because of the shallow depth of his consideration of the matter and because he harbored a tendancy very similar to opportunistic egotism. This is not to say that he did not "mean well".

Martin Luther King was adolescent, at best, in terms of real character.

He does not represent the best of what African-Americans have to be proud of. He represents what Caucasian people want African-Americans to idolize because it encourages naivete, not realism.

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West_africa
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:01 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Symposium On The 30th Anniversary
Of The Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy

Harvard University, November 12-14, 1993

Ferment
Volume VIII#4 --- Updated and edited --- November 18,2003

" A paranoid is a person who has all the facts" - Daniel Ellsberg

Source: http://www.fermentmagazine.org/jfka.html
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, come on. King donated the entire $50,000 that came with the Nobel Peace prize to the civil rights movement. And everybody agreed that Marlon Brando's declining his "Godfather" Oscar and having a Native American from "central casting" don a fringed buckskin dress and stick a feather in her hair and read a statment was on the level with a publicity stunt. I remember this well. No native American tribe even claimed the woman and few were fooled by Brando's bizarre attempt to make himself look socially conscious. Not to mention that Marlon already had one Oscar for "On the Waterfront." And what does Robert Kennedy represent? What black people want to idolize because he decided jump on the civil rights bandwagon? King wasn't perfect, but Robert Kennedy did nothing to earn the mantle of a black hero.
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West_africa
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


November 20-23, 2003 - Solving the Great American Murder Mystery: A National Symposium on the 40th Anniversary of the JFK Assassination

This conference was in 2003 at Duquesne University.

SEE: http://www.forensics.duq.edu/conference/2003program.html

ALSO : --( Also at Duquesne University )--

"Cracking the JFK Case: The Emerging Consensus"

To be held at the Bethesda Hyatt Regency Hotel, Bethesda, MD from November 18 to 20, 2005.

Co-hosted by The Assassination Archives and Research Center and The Cyril H. Wecht Institute of Forensic Science and Law at Duquesne University.

SEE: http://www.forensics.duq.edu/news_events/newsevents.html



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West_africa
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Marlon Brando stood physically with the Black Panthers.

He earned his respect with more than an opinion.

That is that.


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West_africa
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African-Americans minus Robert Kennedy equals New Orleans plus "Katrina".

Examine the equation.
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Even if skin color wasn't the issue it would be something as subtle as eye color; if not eye color, then the shape of one's nose; if not the shape of one's nose then...

When people make these kind of statements they ALWAYS start with skin color. Why? Because it would be absurd to start with anything else. You never hear people say:

Even if eye color wasn't the issue it would be one's nose; if not one's nose, it would be one's lips; if not one's lips, it would be skin color.

It NEVER goes in that order. Skin color Always come first -- even when religion is involved.

So, yes, Rustang - that sentence does acknowledge that skin color is the main issue.

Tonya

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Yukio
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

African Americans-Robert Kennedy equals= New Orleans (federal negligence) + Katrina (natural disaster)...makes no sense.

Hmmm....not quite analogous. The Kennedy administration responded to the US's image as a racist society AND the murder and threat of violence to whites. The Bush administration, like the Kennedy Administration, neglected to address the welfare of black people. Thus, the real formula goes: the threat to white people or the US's international image and pockets(9/11)= federal intervention (war on terror/cold war/civil rights 1964 and 65).
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Yukio
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya: What Rustang and I are stating is that there are factors within society, material factors, that create the conditions for racism. Color, on the other hand, is provides a scapegoat, or as Rustang states "some one to hate." Now, I don't necessarily think, as Rustang suggests, that it is primarily a failure of individuals to do for themselves. As some of the ol' heads know, I tend to look at how the structural factors and individual factors affect eachother....
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 08:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Marlon Brando by nature was an anti-establishment rebel, and he gravitated toward radical causes more because the Panthers were kindred spirits than because they were reformers. Once again I ask: Are you really slow Poke?? If so, when did you become this strange person?? Are you saying that African-Americans are in a state of chaos and havoc because Robert Kennedy is not still around? This man couldn't even manage his own brood of arrogant sex-crazed, drug-addicted sons who were all dysfunctional due to the ineptness and neglect of their parents. My final word. I do not buy the hundreds of different conspiracy theories that have been floating around for 42 years. I subscribe to the single assassin theory and I was never more convinced of this than by watchng Court TV's computerized version of how just by a fluke of fate, Lee Harvy Oswald changed the history of America. And that's that for me.
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 09:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gotchu, Yukio, but I was referring to that statement only. Many people rely on it, or variations of it, when they're making the argument that color isn't the main issue. Keep in mind, I'm not arguing the position that color is the main issue. (of course you already know what my position is.) I'm simply pointing out how that statement usually contradicts what the user is asserting.

Tonya
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Yukio
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya, OK.
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Rustang
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Tonya: That statement always starts with skin color because it is always made in response to someone stating that skin color is the issue.It is never the first statement in the dialogue.What would be ridiculous would be to have a person start a conversation about skin color and I respond by talking about height.
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gotchu, Rustang.
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West_africa
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 01:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quote from Cynique:
"Marlon Brando by nature was an anti-establishment rebel, and he gravitated toward radical causes more because the Panthers were kindred spirits than because they were reformers."

You can analyze it any way you want. He stood, he gets respect.

MLK preached non-violence partially because he doesn't know how to fight. If there had been no Malcolm X, there would have been no magnified MLK.

MLK was never "real" in terms of power. He was hoisted and magnified by a power structure that feared the evolution of Malcolm X, and still does.



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West_africa
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 01:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert Kennedy was one of the most excellent allies African-Americans have ever had.

Robert Kennedy was an excellent person. His children are also characterized by excellence.

The Kennedys have always been fighters. There are many cowards among the "Negroes". Most of the cowards have no real courage, but they do have opinions, which often leads to problems.

Ther are, of course, many cowards throughout the "whites" as well (which partially explains the actions of Lynndie England, Charles Graner, & others in Iraq).

The Kennedys are an excellent family. Most of their detractors are ridiculous nit-wits, cowards, and "wanna-be" types.
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 02:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Puleeze. Are you a PR man for the Kennedy clan??Joe Kennedy was a ruthless cutthroat who acquired his fortune by bootlegging whiskey, among other nefarious activites. He cheated on his wife for years with movie seductress Gloria Swanson, and also had to be restrained from molesting the friends of his daughters. He had his oldest daughter, who was mildly retarded, lobotimized, a botched operation which turned her into a vegetable. He raised a bunch of children who were long on competitiveness and short on character. His sons were all womanizers who sired a brood of unremarkable grandchildren several of whom have spent years in drug and alcoholic rehab before trying clean up their acts; a couple have even been accused of rape and several have been killed or been in terrible accidents because they lived dangerously, thinking rules didn't apply to them. Yes, President Kennedy was a war hero, but The Kennedys are better described as a prominent family, rather than an excellent one. MLK was flawed but he did make a difference and did leave a lasting legacy. And it's ludicrous of you to single out "negroes" as having cowards among their ranks. Malcomn X respected MLK and never hesitated to criticize rich white people like the Kennedys.
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West_africa
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suggest you examine closely the perspective of Malcolm X on Martin Luther King.

Your comments on the Kennedys are "B" league perspectives on a family that stood and stands at the forefront of achievers in the "A" league.

The "A" league is not a variation on the "B" league reality.

You may think you can speak on the Kennedys because you have some knowledge of a few facts which you choose to pretend represents their reality, but if you don't understand the reality of their league, how can you really interpret their actions?

The Kennedys are excellent, and you are lucky to even have the opportunity to attempt to judge them.
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Snort. Give an example of why the Kennedys deserve your accolades. They are nothing but rank and file white liberals, something they can afford to be because they have lots of money. The media likes to portray this clan as the closest thing America has to royalty which doesn't say a heck of a lot for America, because this crowd is descended from a bunch of shanty Irish hooligans and are not really bona fide aristocrats. Even ol Jackie Kennedy was a husband-stealing gold digger. Now don't get me wrong I like the Kennedys but I don't admire them.

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