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Nels
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 99
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 08:14 pm: | 
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http://celebrity.aol.com/people/ataol/articles/0,19736,1110197,00.html
Ok folks, a short break from the serious stuff.
Having visited the link above, is Beyonce really trying to take a pass on having gorilla babies? Who knows? I’ve heard this at least ten times over the past several months. Bullshit to say the least? Maybe, or maybe not. Jay-Z’s got Michael Jackson’s money (...not quite...), but the gene pool won’t help him on this one.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2682
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 03:02 pm: |
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I can't believe you said that, Nels. I'm trying to keep from laughing. Surely by somebody's standards, Jay Z is - um handsome. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 691
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 03:20 pm: |
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NELS:
"..is Beyonce really trying to take a pass on having gorilla babies?"
MOONSIGNS:
Though I don't find him attractive (at all), that's a harsh comment!!!!
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 101
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 08:09 pm: |
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Cyn, Moon --
Don't pay no tention to me. I'm juz makin' a little noieeze. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 216
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 09:54 am: |
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Actually, Beyonce's genes will MORPH JayZ's genes and they will have a beautiful child.
LiLi |
Aglae
Newbie Poster
Username: Aglae
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 02:31 pm: |
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JayZ is one of those brothers will have to marry outside the race to remove that ugly gene from the gene pool. A sister's genetics can overcome a lot, but damn . . . |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 470
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 02:49 pm: |
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Why would he have to marry out side of his race... and how can we be certain that a high yellow woman will "MORPH" his physical shortcomings???
"A sister's genetics can overcome a lot, but damn . . ."
Ohh, but a white/non-black woman's GENETICS would do much better???
Listen to yourselves.... And y'all wonder why no one respects y'all -- Y'all don't even respect yourselves.
CHANGE YOUR THINKING -- UNLEARN WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT.... AND, FOR GOD'S SAKE, RESPECT YOURSELVES.
Either that or join another race - PLEASE!
Tonya
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 11:15 pm: |
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Is beauty really in the eye of the beholder? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 482
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 05:37 am: |
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No, Nels, it's not.
It's in the eyes of a handful of brilliant, savvy, ego driven white men, who fully understand that brainwashing by the use of social pressure, fear, misinformation, and subliminal manipulation, guarantees absolute POWER and complete CONTROL -- The two things they need to survive. Genius!
As a result, we've been NIGGERIZED to the point where we can literally look beauty square in the face and not comprehend what we're seeing. Our NIGGERIZATION has conned us into deeming WHITE SKIN and KEEN FEATURES the best that NEGROIDS can do.... N-E-G-R-O-I-D-S!!!
...WHAT A FUCKING OXYMORON.
...But that's exactly what a handful of evil geniuses can do.
SO, NO, BEAUTY IS *NOT* IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
Tonya |
Th_ethiopian
Newbie Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:25 pm: |
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^^^^^^ u niggers are apes..............u fuckin self haters are a disgrace to the african race....no wonder everybody hates u .....damn u hate yourself more than anything. Its this kind of mentality that made u slaves before and that is making u a slave today........self hatered is the worst kind of hatred one can have. tonya is the true african queen in this mofo.....everybody else who posted here is a self hating,low iq having,cheap liquor drinking,asshole in other words u guys are the true NIGGERS |
Th_ethiopian
Newbie Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:30 pm: |
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cynique is one of those high yella bitches that always strives to be white like beyonce fuck u both........im making a movie called NIGGERS GONE WRONG and u both will be my leading ladies remember to perm your hair bitches |
Th_ethiopian
Newbie Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
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i got a message for beyonce please pass it on cynique tell her that the ethiopian said......... " I DONT WANT NO HIGH YELLOW IN MY JELLO" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2691
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 01:03 pm: |
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Well, ethiopian, it figures that a freak like you would have 2 mouths and a forked tongue because you don't know where you stand and your comments are a mish-mash of contradictions. Your frustration from trying to reconcile your love of white women while hating high yellow ones apparently makes you incoherenet, especially since none of them would give a bum like you a second look. And you and poor ol "tonya" just have to keep trying to convince yourselves that people like me hate ourselves. You're in denial and can't accept the idea that we're well-adjusted and it doesn't bother us that we don't look like you and that we're comfortable in our own skin. Disgrace to Africa? Puleeze. You ethiopians and sudanese have disgraced Africa enough for the rest of the century. Actually, you and "tonya" should hook up and start your own new tribe and go settle somewhere along the coast of Louisiana. LMAO. BTW have you had your AIDS test yet? |
Th_ethiopian
Newbie Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 03:05 pm: |
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why should i have an aids test.......i havent slept with u ?
cynique = a true nigger + weave + fake contact lenses
what a stupid high yellow bitch..........i bet cynique hasnt been banged since MICHEAL JACKSON BECAME WHITE......cynique dont u get it........HE'S JUST NOT THAT IN TO U....HAHAHA BITCH PLEASE BUY A NEW WEAVE |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2692
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 05:54 pm: |
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You're obsessed with me, aren't you? You fantasize about the way I look. You want my high yellow body. In your dreams! Get a life, ol lame of judah and stop wasting your time thinking up insults. Sombody tell this fool how old I am. Fake contacts? Hair weave? LMAO. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 105
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 02:49 am: |
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Cyn --
"No, Nels, it's not."
This, I already know. What appears to be misunderstood by many is that the so-called "black" race is composed of an endless array of persons of virtually all racial, cultural and ethnic mixtures and backgrounds. In reality, it isn't "black" anymore, and some folks just can't accept that. The real ill is in the witless who venture onto these boards without the having the slightest idea of who they are and what they've said. As with your latest detractor, don't waste your time or effort arguing with the infirm. In time, they'll figure out who they really are, or is that - want to be?
p.s., Save your "gorilla suit" for the real battles. They're a killer.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 578
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 02:55 am: |
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That's fucked up, NELS, and it says a lot about you that I think is ugly.
But I'm sure you find me ugly, too.
And these comments by Aglae:
JayZ is one of those brothers will have to marry outside the race to remove that ugly gene from the gene pool. A sister's genetics can overcome a lot, but damn . . .
REALLY DO demonstrate that many Black Men are just "colorist/anti-africoid"......as White Men are "racist"
in fact, I'd wager MORE SO.
MOON...please don't miss my comments in the DEL HINES thread.
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 107
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:18 am: |
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Kola --
No one said you're ugly. I certainly didn't imply it either. What I do find interesting is that the original posting has served its purpose, and that was to elicit the most volatile to pragmatic assessments of what perception really is all about.
And no, it's ([these posts are]) not "fucked up" either. The truth may be a stepchild of common sense, but the latter is never a bride.
You probably know by now, I could care less what anyone thinks about me, because none of this shit gets under my skin. I'm here for the mental exercise. What about you? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 581
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:45 am: |
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Nels, this is interesting what you said:
In reality, it isn't "black" anymore, and some folks just can't accept that.
Kola:
First up--I think you living in AMERICA only makes it "appear" that the whole black world is mixed now and there's no more black race. It's not actually true in the least.
Having 20,000 mixed people living separately amongst 14 million Ghanians, for instance---does not Ghana look or feel "mixed".
I think what's actually happening---in America, NELS---is that people who have traditionally accepted bi-racial and mixed progeny as PART OF THEM.....are beginning to evaluate and REJECT that system for the first time in American history. Authentic Blacks want to see their loved ones "re-born", which is normal.
The "NEW" Biracial and Mixed certainly don't adhere to any 1 drop rules or the old plantation set up, so it FORCES a lot of truths out in the open.
The dark skinned people in America are beginning to actually think in an African way---that the mulatto is their enemy along with the White people.
And you're seeing the START of a new fissure---as the more Authentic Black Woman is often LEFT OUT of the new world mating game....she is still almost always IMPREGNATED and left with her anger and feelings of betrayal.
And going back to Harriet Tubman and Sojourner...she has always been the most powerful person in our group. She is the one who sets our course.
As I've said often---"the revolution" will not be televised---because it's going to take place in the womb of the person who is the MOST stigmatized and invisible among us....
....the Dark Skinned black female
She's ALSO the majority population among us.
And because we don't PAY ATTENTION to what's going on with her----and her rage/anger----we miss the revolution that's coming.
By leaving her out----she will create a new breed of Blacks who leave everybody else out.
Yukio is one who believes in a multi-hued so called "Diaspora" where all shades are considered "black".
But by virtue of inequality and injustice----I see something more divisive on the horizon.
The Blacks will never accept being on the bottom and ruled by Mulattos----and especially as the Africans FROM Africa begin to establish what is truly BLACK/Authentic---
new groups will be forced to break away and form by rejection and spite
The Black Race is NOT dead.
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 109
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:46 am: |
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Kola --
BTW, do you know what a "gorilla suit" really is? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 582
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:49 am: |
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No, daddy, what is it? 
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 110
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:54 am: |
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Kola --
"The Black Race is NOT dead."
No one said that the black race is dead. It's just a bit diminished.
"The dark skinned people in America are beginning to actually think in an African way."
That must be some really good shit you're smokin'. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 111
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:57 am: |
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Kola --
"No, daddy, what is it?"
It's a tough persona. What you might have to act like when you're about to kick some ass. Well known in the hood, too. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 583
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 03:58 am: |
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Oh.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 584
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 04:00 am: |
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Nels, I'm so curious about you.
How old are you?
And what part of the country do you live in?
I only want to know from an "intrinsic" stand point.
I'm not being flirtatious or trying to be cute.
I'm serious.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 486
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 02:52 pm: |
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Nels,
You quoted and was speaking to the wrong person, which is a surprise -- Cynnique would NNNEEEEVVVVVVEEEEERRRR say A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G like that.
Cuz she's a house nigger.
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2696
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 06:09 pm: |
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Got that right, "Tonya". Now go on back into the fields where you belong, and finish pickin cotton. Too bad you're so ugly ol Massa don't want nothin to do with you, no matter how much you secretly dream of him giving you a mulatto baby. (The black bucks don't want you either cause you're an evil bitch.) |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 114
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 07:12 pm: |
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Tonya --
“You quoted and was speaking to the wrong person”
It’s the inference that drives the message, not the source of the interpretation.
Remember, my objective is not to recklessly antagonize or carelessly denigrate. Interaction is great, but it's the neutrality of the event that gets the juices flowing. The power of suggestion usurps all other means in the world of social engineering. Therefore, if it is used wisely, its outcome(s) will be quite predictable. When great writers learn to hone their responses and reflections, they reach the next level with great respect for the intricacy of the mind.
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 115
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 07:21 pm: |
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Kola --
Sometimes, a low profile is the best profile. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2699
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 07:35 pm: |
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Nels, you know, of course, that you are speaking as a denizen of the planet "Mars." To those of us from the planet Venus, spontaneous emotion neutralizes abstract contemplation. I can't resist engaging in petty bickering. But I'd be the first to sing the praises of the power of suggestion; it's very effective when doling out insults. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 496
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 08:22 pm: |
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Nels,
("It’s the inference that drives the message, not the source of the interpretation.")
I don't even want to be mentioned in the same breath as that pimple faced, watered-down, prodject dwelling, freak of nature....
If you're gonna be a house nigger at least get something to show for it -- Ya can't be lickin on massa's boots from the ghetto.... Oh, wait a minute, that's right... lickin massa turns you on - no matter how much he gives you his ass to kiss.... Miserable bastardized fool.
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2701
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 08:37 pm: |
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Poor ol Tonya. You can go look in the mirror and ask Kola what you can do to become a house nigga. You know that's your secret uppermost desire. Kola wants to be one, too, but she will tell you it's impossible. You bitches just don't make the cut. Nobody wants all one of you. LMAO. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2702
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 08:57 pm: |
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BTW, "tonya", I do live in the ghetto but you're so ignorant that you don't know the true definition of the word "ghetto", that it is more about sameness than anything else. There are Jewish ghettos, middle class ghettos, etc. Of course Miz Anne lives in a middle-class ghetto. My town doesn't have projects, but on the other side of the tracks there's the low-life ghetto where you would feel right at home. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 502
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 09:56 pm: |
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You know what I mean by ghetto, nigga...LOL!... So you can try to slice it all you want... "Miz Ann" lives in the ghetto... dreamin of massa and lickin on those boots! LOL! But don't be ashamed and embarrassed because you got demoted from the big house. You must be one of those ugly light-skinned chicks... you know how they say "ugly even to be light-skinned" -- "Now that's a ugly bitch."...LOL!
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2705
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 10:44 pm: |
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You speak with such authority, tonya, and that's because you are voicing your innermost dream: to escape the ghetto of your "authenticity" and become a high yella house nigga. Miz Anne understands.Your poor back is achin from the burden of what you are. But jes shuffle on back to the slave quarters where you belong and maybe if you pray to de lawd hard enough and change your evil ways, a miracle will change your awful appearance. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 601
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 11:25 pm: |
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This is so sad and hurtful...
the things that Cynique and Tonya are saying to one another.
I'm no better than they are, trust me. But I feel so frustrated that there's not some way for black women who don't have the same viewpoint to still love each other.
I hate this hostility. It's draining.
I've had major rows with both Cynique and Moonsigns and I can honestly say that I really like both women and have a lot of admiration for them.
How come we can never focus on the LIKE we have?
Ugh!
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2706
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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Well, if the exchanges drain you, Kola, don't read them. (But I guess if you're writing them, it's hard not to read them. No wonder you're drained. ROTFLOL) But, I'm done with tonya the troll. Got better things to do. Too bad she hasn't. zzzzzzz and - in response to any post that tonya posts after this, - ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 602
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 12:10 am: |
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Cynique, you are such an evil hussy.
I don't blame Tonya for telling you off all the time.
You're just relentless in your bitchiness.
And YOU ARE a house negro. Living in the ghetto or not.
Girl you need to quit!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 506
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 12:17 am: |
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Cynnique, when have I tried to pretend that I'm something I'm not???
I don't have a problem with the ghetto or ghetto people, for that matter. But what cracks me up about you is that you try to pretend you're this perfectly scrubbed privileged elitist. In reality, however, you're no different than the very people you hate. I call you "ghetto" ONLY to throw your self hatred in your miserable, frozen from contemp, hardened by hatred, deeply wrinkled, high yellow face... and it just happens to be a lot of fun. HA-HA! Also, it highlights how ridiculous it is to think that house niggers were any better off than other slaves. Like you, they were just foolishly mistaken.
But make no mistake, I have no problem with the term "ghetto" -- I celebrate it eveyday of my life... just by being myself. (Self Love).
Tonya |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 117
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:47 am: |
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Tonya --
Oh, I can play hardball too. However, at the moment, it's much more entertaining watching these dialogue exchanges degenerate.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2707
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 10:28 am: |
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Nels, I'm also amused by how some posters on this board categorize people who they've never met or know nothing about. I am a postal retiree who lives comfortably in a well-kept neighborhood of a blue collar suburb of Chicago. All of which enables me to lead a life of leisure, doing pretty much as I please everyday. But it obviously makes others feel better if they believe differently. Guess the fact that I'm high yellow, blows ol "tonyas" authentic mind. LMAO. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2708
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
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Oh shut up, Kola Boof. You so full of it, I can smell your bull shit through the computer. Suddenly you're Miss Propriety, pretending to stay above the fray, utilizing the "tonya" persona as your henchwoman. But, believe me, ain't nobody gettin told off any more than tonya is. You just can't admit defeat. Or does it occur to you that I "relentlessly" respond to tonya's aggression. Reign in that pit bull bitch and we can all move on. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 507
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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God I love pushing those buttons (smile). It's amusing to see a ghetto house nigger bleed. I better watch out, though -- sista might pull out her gat and start pistol whippin mutha fuckas. Umma try ta stay off her dirt lawn....LOL!
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2710
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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It kills you that I don't consider being called a house nigga an insult, doesn't it? It leaves you miffed that I flaunt being high-yellow, doesn it? heh-heh. It consoles you to think that I distance myself from ghetto niggas when in fact as an advocate of multiculturism, I like interesting people from all walks of life. Your old self-hating argument is also very transparent. It's obvious who hates themselve around here, and it's you babe. You're just a pathetic wanna-be, trying to compensate for not being like those who you envy. Poor ol field nigga tonya. The more she talks, the more she exposes her neediness. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2711
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 12:45 pm: |
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And did somebody just say that the stereotypical image "tonya" portrayed of a ghetto resident says more about her than it does about Cynique??? (Guess ol kola was so busy practicing her writing skills that she abandoned her sensitivity.)tsk-tsk. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 508
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 12:47 pm: |
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Damn, that was deep!... But you aint gotta keep explaining yourself to me, sistah -- I already know the deal. I don't need to know your whole life story, besides, I aint got that much time, granny. Look, just be proud of who/what you are and if you can't help that you're high yellow, so what! -- There's more to life than just your skin -- well, maybe not for you, lol, but at least set an example for younger high yellow bitches. And, who knows, you could be an inspiration for ghetto house niggers who are coming of age. SO STOP TRYING TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF, NIGGER. Just be proud....LMBAO!!!
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2712
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 01:03 pm: |
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And we all now why you don't explain yourself because you are in denial as to what you are. You are so dense. Do I have to tell you again that you are pathetic wanna-be deluded into thinking you know your ass from a hole in the ground. Good grief. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 510
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:28 pm: |
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Now, that's better! I thought you was about to have a nervous break-down. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2715
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:51 pm: |
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What did you think with??? Don't tell me you've grown a brain, field nigga. That merits your being moved up to the status of yard nigga. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 511
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 03:04 pm: |
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I'll leave you alone, for now -- My work is done.
But just remember: Love yourself and try to love others.
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2717
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 03:18 pm: |
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That's a good little "tonya". Stick your tail between your legs and skitter way cuz Cynique is done with you. Ta-ta. |
Th_ethiopian
Newbie Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 05:24 pm: |
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cynique.......... isnt it quitin time...lol
i hate house niggers......... |
Sisg
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 06:38 pm: |
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hhehehehe, u all r so funny!
I mean i hate to just drop in and laugh and drop out, but hey that's just me, ok!
Hang in there Rustang! Everybody else seems to be doing there thang! |
Th_ethiopian
Newbie Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 07:15 pm: |
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who is deletin my posts.............can someone cut me a little slack...........come on now i dont even get this much cencership in ethiopia yall. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2718
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 07:43 pm: |
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It is time for me to go because I'm developing an affinity for the ethiopian. He has no redeeming qualities, and I - like that in him. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 799
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 07:49 pm: |
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Kola and others:
Just to set the record straight, I focus on politics not color. Praxis not phenotype! I do agree that these color politics are indeed divisive, so socalled mixed race and light skinned folk are problematic, but this is also true of dark skinned folk.
On a very basis level, conceptually speaking your logic is in error. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2723
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 08:37 pm: |
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I agree, Yukio. (not surprising, huh?) |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 606
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 09:25 pm: |
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Yukio,
I have noticed that whenever authentically black people try to empower and regain their sense of themselves----light,mixed folks call it "divisive".
They sound like white folks when they do this.
And I think it highlights 'the truth' and that they are fearful of losing their skin color privileages----and.....
...the fact they ever had such privileages is the REAL THING that's divisive my brother.
We don't NEED light/mixed people in order to be Black, so I've never understood their refusal to demonstrate their blackness by giving up their ode to white otherness.
It can easily be done you know.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 520
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 10:08 pm: |
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Powerful statement, Kola. I agree 100% |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 120
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 11:33 pm: |
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Kola --
"giving up their ode to white otherness"
Why would anyone really (and I mean really) want to give up any part of their (otherness), as you put it? No naivete here.
On another note, Yukio stated that "so-called mixed race and light skinned folk are problematic". One might wonder what the actual breakdown is of this board's participants regarding who is mixed-race and light-skinned, and who isn't.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2724
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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You spelled "privilege" wrong, Konya. Which is quite significant. But just keep on preaching to your off-key choir members. Say what, tonya? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2725
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 12:29 am: |
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Yukio said that those calling themselves authetic black are also problematic, and they are. Kola and her little band of sycophants which now includes the infamous ethiopian are the only posters who are obsessed with color. I NEVER had any intentions of revealing my color, but Kola saw a picture of me and immediately pounced on the idea that I was a colorist because of how I look and something I had a character say in a book I wrote. She then proceeded to use this board as a platform for showing me the error of my ways. Once I refused to let her put me on the defensive, it was on between us and we've been at it ever since. And what makes it even more ridiculous is that Kola embraces the martyr role, grandly brushing aside all of the tales of reverse discrimination that light-skinned posters have complained about. Now, I'm not copping a plea; I'm just shedding a little light on the subject for you because you are a newbie. And, in fact, at this point I'm ready to take Kola on any time - cuz it's gotten good to me. LOL |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 521
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 04:29 am: |
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"giving up their ode to white otherness"
"Why would anyone really (and I mean really) want to give up any part of their (otherness), as you put it? No naivete here."
I think that's her point, Nels. If that privilege doesn't exist or if it weren't such a big thing, why not give it (white otherness) up? Who needs it to be black... and it can be easily done.
It's the most powerful statement I've heard since I been here. And it's a VERY VERY good question.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 522
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 04:52 am: |
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And, more importantly, if it (white otherness) is the thing that devides us so (which it is) then, again, why not give it up. A good HYPOTHETICAL question. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 607
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 05:04 am: |
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Tonya said to Nels:
I think that's her point, Nels. If that privilege doesn't exist or if it weren't such a big thing, why not give it (white otherness) up? Who needs it to be black... and it can be easily done.
It's the most powerful statement I've heard since I been here. And it's a VERY VERY good question.
Tonya
Thank you Tonya.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2726
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
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Color isn't the only privilege, Kola. There are many other privileges and nobody gives them up. It's a privilege for you to live in America, and I don't see you moving back to Africa. The only people who give up privileges are those who are self-sacrificing. Color privilege is not an ode to whiteness, it is a tribute to self-preservation. What you want more than anything in life is that to prove their worthiness and to assuage your resentment, light-skinned people should become the whipping boys of the dark-skinned ones who hold them in contempt. Your little litany is actually an ode to "misery loves company." But if you didn't wear blinders and didn't have a messiah complex, you would realize that everybody is just trying to survive in an imperfect world, and in spite of what you continue beat your breast about, there are millions of dark-skinned people who are doing quite well for themselves. After all, the media isn't the only arena for accomplishments and a slim, shapely, smooth-skinned dark woman will win out any day over a fat, pimply-faced, light woman who wears glasses. That's what's going on in the real world. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 800
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 01:25 pm: |
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Kola Boof, you are mistaken, shamefully. I used the word "divisive" to agree with your second statement, not the first which was a simplification of my opinion. KB states on Oct. 9th:
Yukio is one who believes in a multi-hued so called "Diaspora" where all shades are considered "black".
But by virtue of inequality and injustice----I see something more divisive on the horizon.
Thus, my usuage of the term "divisive" is an affirmation of your own post not my socalled lighter brown complexion. We have had exchanges for far too long for you to be so...derelict. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 525
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 01:40 pm: |
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My2cents:
When I say mixed/light-skinned people are NOT better off, I don't mean in terms of white supremacy privilege -- In terms of Morality ( meaning right from wrong) and having a clear conscious, they're (of course) no better off than dark-skinned people and even worse off than whites. Benefiting from being black and from white supremacy at the same time is unimaginable for some people (black and white). After what white supremacy has done to black folk for so many years, to be placed above the rest because you are a part of what systematically and brutally oppressed them for centuries is, IMHO, beyond immoral. It doesn't matter how you got there; if you benefit from it, it's unscrupulous... in fact, it's much worse than benefiting from white supremacy alone. Even white folk are starting to talk about it. They want to know how an individual who's not much blacker than they are can benefit from affirmative action and other social programs. Although I don't want to see affirmative action eliminated, I have to admit, they have a good argument.
After getting older I've realized that the most important things I have are good health and and a clear conscious. To me, those are the most vital blessings anybody could have. But there are going to be people who'll say "there's nothing we can do about it" and since they (honestly or not) feel they are in that position, that's precisely why I say they're not better off.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 526
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 01:45 pm: |
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"to be placed above the rest because you are a part of what systematically and brutally oppressed them for centuries {and continues to do so} is, IMHO, beyond immoral." |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2730
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:24 pm: |
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In your little romanticized scenario that keeps your juices flowing you continue to cast light-skinned people as uncaring smug villains and dark skinned ones as noble, long-suffering heroes. And once again I say to you that were the situation reversed, black people would show no more compassion or be no more moral than light-skinned folks. Jut ask any light person who's been intimidated by resentful dark-skinned people in positions of power. You are insufferably self-righteous and hopelessly subjective, Konya. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 529
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:29 pm: |
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You guys should STOP CALLING ME KOLA because there are many controversial things I've said (and will say in the future) that she may not agree with and should not be attributed to her - IT'S NOT FAIR TO HER. I know you, Cynique, don't like her but it would be vindictive of you to continue implying that we're the same people (Or that we're somehow co-operating together) because, as I said, my words are sometimes too provocative and they should not be attributed to her.... That's not fair.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 530
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:43 pm: |
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Cynnique:
..you continue to cast light-skinned people as uncaring smug villains...
Tonya:
That's absolutely not true.
...If they are the "villains" I'll have to be the victim and that's not me at all -- more like.. the victimizer.
Cynnique:
I say to you that were the situation reversed, black people would show no more compassion or be no more moral than light-skinned folks.
We would nurture and protect our own... there's NOTHING immoral about that. Besides, it's our race... we'll do what we damn well please.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 531
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:45 pm: |
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Tonya:
We would nurture and protect our own... there's NOTHING immoral about that. Besides, it's our race... we'll do what we damn well please. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 801
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:48 pm: |
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I believe that there are people whom benefit from their lighter complexion; there are also people who, for whatever reasons--rearing or socalled educated consciousness--choose to affirm their socalled "whiteness"; and of course, there are those folk who have accepted euro-american notions of beauty and also often unconsciously affirm certain characteristics! Interestingly, there are darkskinned folk who do the latter, as visible by their contact lens, hair weave, etc...these practices are found among african americans, west indians, and africans....no group is exempt.
On the other hand, there are continental africans who are light skinned. And in the US there are light skinned blacks who show no trance of "whiteness." At any rate, color tells us very little!
It is very simple to me...it is what people say and their behavior that tells us their politics not their color! This is not very deep! Thus to claim that this is a lightskinned problem is quite superficial....the root of this issue is about how one internalizes certain views...a dark skinned complexion does not preclude one from being brainwashed! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2731
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:50 pm: |
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It's not about me not liking Kola, it's about me not agreeing with her controversial opinions. And quit fooling yourself into thinking that your views have such an impact on people that they would harm Kola if they are attributed to her. What you have to say is neither original nor shocking nor deep. Kola could put you to shame considering she is the most volatile, belligerant person on this board, in spite of the fact that she is obviously trying to re-invent herself - konya. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 705
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:50 pm: |
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How funny!!!! All of a sudden, Tonya wants to play fair. Go figure! |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 706
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:56 pm: |
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CYNIQUE:
"And once again I say to you that were the situations reversed, black people would show no more compassion or be no more moral than light-skinned folks."
MOONSIGNS:
I think that is a good point. However, it makes me question what that says about the general nature of the human spirit/heart. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 533
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:08 pm: |
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Ynnique:
It's not about me not liking Kola, it's about me not agreeing with her controversial opinions. And quit fooling yourself into thinking that your views have such an impact on people that they would harm Kola if they are attributed to her. What you have to say is neither original nor shocking nor deep. Kola could put you to shame considering she is the most volatile, belligerant person on this board, in spite of the fact that she is obviously trying to re-invent herself - konya.
Tonya:
You guys should STOP CALLING ME KOLA because there are many controversial things I've said (and will say in the future) that she may not agree with and should not be attributed to her - IT'S NOT FAIR TO HER. I know you, Cynique, don't like her but it would be vindictive of you to continue implying that we're the same people (Or that we're somehow co-operating together) because, as I said, my words are sometimes too provocative and they should not be attributed to her.... That's not fair.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 534
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:09 pm: |
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Get it right, BITCHEs....ROTFLMBAO!!!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2732
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:14 pm: |
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Indeed, Yukio, the whole tactic of rendering an adversary impotent is to place a lable on him, and relegate them to a category that you have created for the purpose of making your specious rebuttals seem valid, |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 535
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:14 pm: |
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Yukio, I agree with most of what you said.... I'm sure you understand that when I speak, I'm speaking in general terms. I think MOST of the people who participate/read these boards knows enough about their history and colorism to understand how/where I'm comming from.
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2733
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:20 pm: |
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YOU get it right, you deluded moron.
Tonya:
"...as I said, my words are sometimes too provocative and they should not be attributed to her.... That's not fair.
Cynique:
"And quit fooling yourself into thinking that your views have such an impact on people that they would harm Kola if they are attributed to her. What you have to say is neither original nor shocking nor deep."
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 537
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:29 pm: |
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Cynique:
"And quit fooling yourself into thinking that your views have such an impact on people that they would harm Kola if they are attributed to her. What you have to say is neither original nor shocking nor deep."
Tonya:
You guys should STOP CALLING ME KOLA because there are many controversial things I've said (and will say in the future) that she may not agree with and should not be attributed to her - IT'S NOT FAIR TO HER. I know you, Cynique, don't like her but it would be vindictive of you to continue implying that we're the same people (Or that we're somehow co-operating together) because, as I said, my words are sometimes too provocative and they should not be attributed to her.... That's not fair.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 538
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:30 pm: |
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Get it right, BITCHEs...LMBAO!!!!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2734
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:38 pm: |
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Did anybody say that Kola is original, shocking or deep?? I didnt. You 2 or interchangeable. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 539
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:49 pm: |
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Cynnique, I'm not saying ANY of what you are TRYING to attribute to me.
My message is clear:
You guys should STOP CALLING ME KOLA because there are many controversial things I've said (and will say in the future) that she may not agree with and should not be attributed to her - IT'S NOT FAIR TO HER. I know you, Cynique, don't like her but it would be vindictive of you to continue implying that we're the same people (Or that we're somehow co-operating together) because, as I said, my words are sometimes too provocative and they should not be attributed to her.... That's not fair.
_____________________________________________________________________
...THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING -- THAT'S ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 540
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 03:51 pm: |
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....Oh, and:
Get it right, BITCHEs....LOL!!!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2738
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 04:38 pm: |
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OK, Kola. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 802
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 04:48 pm: |
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Tonya states:
It doesn't matter how you got there; if you benefit from it, it's unscrupulous... in fact, it's much worse than benefiting from white supremacy alone. Even white folk are starting to talk about it. They want to know how an individual who's not much blacker than they are can benefit from affirmative action and other social programs. Although I don't want to see affirmative action eliminated, I have to admit, they have a good argument.
I doubt that people who benefit from their socalled light skin always know if they have benefitted or not. So what you really mean is that the person or institution that priviliged a ligher person is unscrupulous.
Affirmative action is another story all together, unless your are talking about ridding the world of all forms of formal discrimination, such as whether an immigrant or a citizen gets a certain right....or whether a woman should receive maternity leave or not....in other words, one needs to place these issues, and therefore their analogies, in the proper contexts. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 543
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 07:18 pm: |
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Yukio:
I doubt that people who benefit from their socalled light skin always know if they have benefitted or not.
Tonya:
How naive do you think they are? Besides, they don't ALWAYS have to know WHEN they are benefiting -- THEY KNOW THAT THEY DO. Even white folks know they benefit from white supremacy. And if they (light-skinned/mixed blacks) don't know this (which they do), let's go back to Kola's statement: why not give it up since you don't know about it, need it, and it's so divisive?
Yukio:
So what you really mean is that the person or institution that priviliged a ligher person is unscrupulous.
Tonya:
When whites do it they're just favorizing those who are closer to them, Normal. But when authentic blacks put others above those who are closer to them, THAT'S SICK. If you notice, no matter how much whites favorize light-skinned blacks they would NEVER put them above their own. In any event, neither group is unsrupulous in my opinion.
But when you benefit FROM the blood of those who were savagely abused and methodically oppressed BECAUSE you have a certain amount of the blood of the oppressor/abuser; AND, when you ACCEPT being placed above those same battered browbeaten people even though accepting that position means they'll be further oppressed - THAT'S UNSCRUPULOUS.
As for affirmative action, as I said before, most who participate/read these boards know enough about the issues concerning blacks to understand the context in which I'm using it (employment, schools ect. Those issues that specifically involves race).
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 544
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 07:27 pm: |
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(employment, schools ect. Those issues that specifically involves race IN AMERICA).
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 608
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 07:38 pm: |
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Actually, Tonya---I agree with Yukio.
Authentic Black people are HORRIBLY unscrupulous and responsible for much of these injustices.
Black people, worldwide, are EQUAL to the white man's "racism" in colorist/anti-Africoid pathology.
Light skinned blacks are caught in a rut--because their "Origin" (the blacks) are so colorstruck and self-hating, it becomes a burden for the light offspring to deal with Schizoid Black Parent (Africa/Authentic blacks) and their up and down mantras regarding race.
A helluva lot of it should be blamed on so called "authentic" blacks. I agree with Yukio about that.
And I am not....disowning light/mixed blacks.
I feel great love for them. My problem is that I have an agenda that "I" inherited from my birth father....to defeat White People by rescuiing and restoring black people from the clutches of White Supremacy.
In doing that, I often have to set perimeters (a Standard just as "good hair" is a standard) to re-train Blacks how to see themselves. In doing that, you automatically come at odds with the small percentage of us who are not "visually" all black.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 803
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:02 pm: |
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Tonya:
If they "don't know," then how can they give what they don't know up? Logic is a killa!
I don't walk around, see a light skinned person and then assume they're color struck. In addition, all of the socalled light skinned people I know believe as Kola does in general, that color struck people are problematic....but they believe colorist of any vain, ie people who have contempt, etc.. for lightskinned people and those who have contempt, etc... for darkskinned people.
As far as it is concerned about those who benefit from their complexion, well thats not fair, but life is quite complex and these issues aren't as simple as one believes.
We have a long history of blacks passing for whites who have enabled blacks to integrate neighborhoods( of course this is not always the case). Hypothetical that i'm sure happened.
During Jim Crow America, a fair skinned man obtains a job as an accountant and goes home to his darkskinned wife family; his brown skinned children obtain college degrees; he belongs to various black organizations that are not color struck and that give to the community, etc....the moral of the story is that his life was full of giving to black folk of varous shades, but passing as white enabled him to do so...
Kola, I never said anyone should be blamed, so please differentiate your beliefs from mine.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 609
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:26 pm: |
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But in REAL LIFE, Yukio...you bleeding heart unrealistic wuss
someone will ALWAYS be blamed.
That's that little thing you keep "idealizing"--human nature.
Without Blame and "Shame"---people don't try to correct the wrongs.
Ask the WHITES who were "blamed and shamed" for the atrocities of the last 500 years when the fact is----BLACK PEOPLE are half responsible for the shit, too.
It takes a slave to be a slave.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 804
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:36 pm: |
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Kola boof, reading is fundamental! I said, "I never said anyone should be blamed," nor did I say anyone shouldn't be blamed. My post pertained to representation not judgements...stay in ya lane! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 545
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 09:36 pm: |
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Yukio:
If they "don't know," then how can they give what they don't know up? Logic is a killa!
Tonya:
I can't speak for kola and what she means by giving it up; but I can rely on another ground breaking author who's done a tremendous job bringing colorism to light. In her book "Don't Play In The Sun" Marita Golden describes a scene where she's at an elegant party attended mostly by wealthy authentic black men, their wives, and other extremely infuential black women. What she noticed, however, was that virtually ALL of the women were light-skinned. This made her wonder why there wasn't more dark-skinned sisters there, "Hmmmm". After thinking for awhile she determined that it was most likely do to colorism. Finally, she decided to herself that if all of these POWERFUL sisters (including her) were to put their minds together they could definately come up with a way to make those sort of events (as well as other opportunities) more inclusive to dark-skinned women.
LOGIC MIGHT BE A KILLA!
...BUT COMMON SENSE WILL BLOW YOU'RE MUTHA FUCKIN MIND!
Even if common sense doesn't lead one to figuring out that white supremacy (and his/her benefiting from it) is the culprit for the exclusion of dark-skinned blacks, at some point - unless he's/she's brain dead - one should conclude there's a problem. Once he/she does that - he/she SHOULD work on identifying it and then DENOUNCING what was discovered to be the problem .
How can they give it up? The answer is denounce it. How do they kow it exists? Common fuckin sense.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 546
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 09:49 pm: |
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And please don't think I'm blaming everything on light-skinned/mixed people; I understand that there's others (including dark-skinned blacks) involved. Trust me, my opinion of them are just as harsh. I'm still a newbie, you haven't heard half of it yet.... LOL!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 547
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:01 pm: |
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My bad - I meant to say "YOUR" mind. Damn! I do that shit all the time.... LOL! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 610
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:09 pm: |
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But Tonya, you're a totally different subject than I am.
You're still on the dark skinned black woman's exclusion.
I'm talking about THE BLACK RACE "wishing into being" a bunch of mixed "good haired" fantasy babies who now don't know what to think or where to go---and have every right to be indignant about the contempt being turned their way.
Those BLACK WOMEN at the dinner party in Marita's book (including Marita)......are the daughters of Mothers, Aunts and Grandmothers who were PARTLY RESPONSIBLE for all those black men choosing women who could please the black mother's wish for lighter grandbabies.
That's MY point. You can't change Colorism until all those responsible (including deep dark black folks) are fully brought into understanding of what we have been doing against ourselves.
Black people ARE NOT "morally superior" to Whites and Mixed/light skinned people.
They are ACCOMPLICES, Tonya, in our destruction.
You, Tonya, sometimes revel in pointing the finger at the "high yellows" on this board....enjoying my phrase "Authentic Black People" with glee....and I feel the same anger you do...
But like I said months ago, YOU need to get pregnant...and black women as a whole need to realize that all of this is part of a much bigger war that started hundreds of years ago-----talk is cheap-----we need "conscious" dark women to "consciously" give birth to a new child.
Or the beliefs and dreams you hold dear will die WITH YOU.
More than HALF of the Black Americans in 1910 were "blue black", Tonya.
Wallace Thurman, Marcus Garvey and others from that group said much of what you say today---back then. And now there is almost NO blue black representation left in this country. They have been decimated and their blue black men are the FIRST and the MOST COLORIST men walking.
Look at Don Cheadle and his wife.
Yukio wrote this crap:
During Jim Crow America, a fair skinned man obtains a job as an accountant and goes home to his darkskinned wife family; his brown skinned children obtain college degrees; he belongs to various black organizations that are not color struck and that give to the community, etc....the moral of the story is that his life was full of giving to black folk of varous shades, but passing as white enabled him to do so...
_________
I would dare ANYBODY to show me a black man who could pass for WHITE in Jim Crow days, had a good job--good enough to send people to college--- and who.........married a "dark skinned" black woman and produced dark babies.
That is NOT how the Black community was set up.
The man in question would have married white trash (literally) or a high yellow black woman.
Look at Walter White of the NAACP or W.E.B. DuBois or Oscar Micheaux.
And although white-looking black women DID very often marry the wealthiest Dark Skinned Black men.......an Octoroon male was not going to marry a dark skinned black woman.
Anyone who has read the books by W.E.B. DuBois has got to ask themselves, as I have----WHY did he marry a white looking woman when he already looked so white?
Why was a deep pitch black woman not good enough for a man who wrote so many "idealisms" about the equality of blackness?
Why do Black Men see the "purest" of us as inferior and unattractive?
MALCOLM X was the first to put his wedding vow where his mouth was. His wife LOOKED like a West African woman----and as he wrote many times, it was NOT by accident.
Ditto John Coltrane, Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson whose wives were "unusually" Black.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 805
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
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Tonya:
When I said logic is a killa, I was identifying your illogical point that one could "give it up since you don't know about it, need it, and it's so divisive?" I consequently queried: "If they 'don't know,' then how can they give what they don't know up?"
Cleverly, you took this elsewheres!
Now, your re-narration of MG is fine and dandy as well as sensical, though a bit hopeful! At any rate, the book is enlightening, whether are not people reach similar conclusions is all in the cards (one's individual journey) not a lack of common sense, for what is really "common"?
Similarly, if you think people spend their time thinking about these issues, you are mistaken, though it would be nice. It may be useful to reconsider Nels's thread, Black Identity, particularly Cynique's comment on class, and I would add this question of national identity. Consider, the propensity for African Americans to distinguish themselves from socalled foreign people of color...I believe color is an issue among AA, and it even pervades questions of class and obviously nationality, but will socalled AA think about it as they once did? I don't know...Do they lack common sense? Perhaps...Again, we need to ask what is "common"! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 806
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
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kola boof:
Let me explain this to your, again. I'm talking about praxis not color.
The point was that black people who passed and/or light skinned people helped other black people who were dark...Again, it is a question of praxis not color!
An examples of what I'm talking are: The Delany Sisters with Amy Hill, Having Our Say. A biracial famly who contributed to community building in Harlem; Adam Clayton Powell Sr. and Jr.
In his autobography, Adam by Adam: The Autobiography of Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Powell states:
One of the greatest thrills of my life when I was about ten or twelve years old was to sit at Garvey's feet, or roll down Seventh Avenue with him as he paraded in his white-plumed hat.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 548
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 12:15 am: |
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Yukio,
Perhaps I wasn't clear. That wouldn't be surprising since I'm not a writer -- far from it. Anyway, my intention was to describe how light-skinned/mixed people never have to come to the conclsion that white supremacy and who benefits from it is the real promblem; therefore they don't have to know anything about their priviliges.
If you're aware of non-exclusive events which are given mainly for back people, yet in attendance there's either no or virtually no dark-skinned people, some kind of sense (whether you want to call it common or not) should make it evident that there is a problem. Lets say the common sense problem is "X", not white supremacy or who benifits from it. You could feel compelled to denounce (X) without knowing/acknowleging that (X) is caused by white supremacy or who benefits from it. You can just be like "hey! were the hell is all the darks-kinned people!" (X) could be simply the lack of dark-skinned people in attendance.
So you see... you can give up (denounce) your own white supremacy privilege without knowing you did or that it exist. In other words, if white supremacy and who benefits represents Y(the real problem), you can denounce X (the common sense or whatever problem) without knowing Y (the real problem) exist.
By yhe way, the MG illustration was meant to show how common sense can lead to identifying colorism (Y). My second paragragh shows how common sense led to the problem (X).
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 549
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 12:33 am: |
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Gotchu, Kola. That's precisely why I didn't try to interpret what you meant by "giving up their ode to white otherness". That part threw me, but like I said, I agree with the rest. I think. LOL!
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 611
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 12:43 am: |
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"giving up their ode to white otherness".
What I mean is....why don't they STOP defending being "mulattoes, mixed, etc." and totally join with the Dark Blacks in every way.
Until they get blacker and blacker and blacker.
But no--they cling to it.
They make excuses and they Protect it.
They co-opt White Supremacy and then claim they don't know what it is.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 612
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 12:44 am: |
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Their feeling is:
Why don't YOU get lighter like us.
Which only proves that we are increasingly becoming 2 separate groups of people.
We are not becoming MORE of each other. At all.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 807
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 12:57 am: |
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Tonya:
I got that already. The problem with what your theorizing is that, as I stated, one would need to (a) notice the absence of dark skinned folk and (b) they would also have to identify it as a problem...there is no certainty that either would happen.
This is why I say the question is what is "common"? A person could easily participate in such an affair and acknowlege the same conditions and not see it as a problem, but happenstance. Another person could not acknowledge it at all...your are assuming, I believe, that color is on the mind of black folk....as Nels states suggests, blackness maybe one variable among many....by the way, i am describing reality as I see it not stating my preferences! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 550
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:16 am: |
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Also, you said:
(Yukio wrote this crap...)
That's why I didn't touch it and for EXACTLY the reasons you mentioned.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 551
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:23 am: |
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Kola said:
"giving up their ode to white otherness".
What I mean is....why don't they STOP defending being "mulattoes, mixed, etc." and totally join with the Dark Blacks in every way.
Until they get blacker and blacker and blacker.
But no--they cling to it.
They make excuses and they Protect it.
They co-opt White Supremacy and then claim they don't know what it is.
Tonya:
But, Kola, that's pretty much what I said to Yukio. I just used Marita Golden's book as an example because I wasn't sure what you meant. But you said you didn't agree with it. Why?
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 552
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:37 am: |
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Yukio:
This is why I say the question is what is "common"? A person could easily participate in such an affair and acknowlege the same conditions and not see it as a problem, but happenstance. Another person could not acknowledge it at all...
Tonya:
Okay, Yukio. Now I see what you're saying.
Yukio:
...your are assuming, I believe, that color is on the mind of black folk....
Tonya:
No. I was assuming that (X) would be on their mind, remeber. But you explained that.
Tell me something though, how many people light/mixed or not would be that unaware to not notice (X)?
Tonya
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 613
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:54 am: |
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I didn't agree, Tonya---because your example from Marita's book only dealt with Black men's colorist choices in mates.
At least those men were still socializing in a Black Setting with Black People.
The Boules Society, Blue veins, etc. are different. And they're more than still here.
I'm talking about the NEW RACISM. Which is much bigger than who they marry.
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 121
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:16 am: |
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This thread has taken on a life of its own. It's amazing how a little genetic inference can cause such a firestorm. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 553
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:22 am: |
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Kola,
My example had nothing to do with black men's colorist choices, in fact, the scene from the book had little to do with that as well. It (my example) was about light/mixed people (in this case women) not choosing to denounce dark-skinned people's (again, in this case women) lack of representation. By not helping to denounce it they were protecting their privilige. But my point to Yukio was that common sense should've told them it was wrong, even if they were not aware of white supremacy and their privileges.
Tonya |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 122
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:30 am: |
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Tonya --
"I think that's her point, Nels. If that privilege doesn't exist or if it weren't such a big thing, why not give it (white otherness) up? Who needs it to be black... and it can be easily done."
Since (the) privilege does exist and since it is such a big thing, are you advocating that any affected person simply chuck their ancestry for the sake of a one-sided argument? Also, since the context of her statement is colored by a black-centric theme, it could easily be construed as defying solid logic, reason and perhaps in some instances, plain common sense.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 614
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:36 am: |
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Tonya I agree with you 100%
However, I did not interpret that scene from the book in that way.
Although----it should have been written that way, but "WE" (black women) aren't brave enough to call "yellow women" out on their hypocracy.
I recall Marita mainly reflecting to herself about WHY those men chose light women. I don't recall her saying anything to anyone at dinner---or baiting light skinned women to comment on their positions. It was completely a scene where she was the ONLY dark skinned wife at the gathering.
I write about a similar experience in my autobiography.
And again---you and I are 100% in agreement.
Tonya,
I'm not doing too good and need a hug. So many people are against my work and are actively using their powers to bury me and my work.
I have attacked the heart and soul of this thing in such a big way that Academia, the Black Press, BLACK book stores (there are several that won't carry my work)---everyone, has a vested interest in seeing me fail.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 554
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:43 am: |
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Nels:
Since (the) privilege does exist and since it is such a big thing, are you advocating that any affected person simply chuck their ancestry for the sake of a one-sided argument?
Tonya:
No, Nels, not their ancestry. But they could denounce their privileges if they were really concerned.
Nels:
Also, since the context of her statement is colored by a black-centric theme, it could easily be construed as defying solid logic, reason and perhaps in some instances, plain common sense.
Tonya:
Oh, god! please don't make me go over that again. LOL! I explained that in great detail to Yukio.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 555
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:56 am: |
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But you're not going to fail, Kola. You are too good at what you do. Right now things may not be looking up but, trust me, you're giong to make it... and make it BIG! I say this not because I have the power to predict, it's because you're brilliant, talented, and the BEST at what you do.
...And don't let nobody tell you differently.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 556
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 03:10 am: |
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Yukio,
(Yukio wrote this crap...)
"That's why I didn't touch it and for EXACTLY the reasons you mentioned." -- Tonya Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:16 am
Please don't be offended. I keep forgetting that you and I use completely different dialects. You would say "FLAWD" -- I'd say "CRAP." But I understand that you don't use that kind of language so I'll try to remember not to come at you like that again.
Sorry.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 557
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 03:11 am: |
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My bad, you'd say "FLAWED" |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 808
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 03:30 am: |
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Tonya:
No. I was assuming that (X) would be on their mind, remeber. But you explained that.
x=lack of dark skinned people?
If (lack of dark skinned people) is on someone's mind, they would have to be thinking about color to some degree.
Tell me something though, how many people light/mixed or not would be that unaware to not notice (X)?
I have no clue, but dark skinned people could also not notice their own absence. Again, there are other variables besides color. Color is not the most divisive, to use Kola's word, to me. An individual's politics, and one can not know that from color!
Perhaps your 3:10am post is misdirected; Kola Boof wrote: "Yukio wrote this crap." Not I.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 558
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:26 pm: |
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Yukio:
Color is not the most divisive, to use Kola's word, to me. An individual's politics, and one can not know that from color!
Tonya:
An iniviidual's "politics."
Well, why is it that the threads that have anything to do with color get 99.9999% more responses and conflicting views than the ones that deal with politics? I'm pretty sure they get more hits, too.
And why is it that when race or somebody's racist comment is brought up in this country it gets more coverage than Allan Greenspan's projections for the foreseeable future, Ted Kennedy - Robert Bird - or John Mccain's latest proposal, Tom DeLay's Two indictments, and Karl Rove's potential indictment?
I think color (and race for that matter) IS on EVERYBODY'S mind. It's just too Taboo to talk about, and that's our problem. That could be (X).
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 559
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 02:52 pm: |
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By the way:
x=The common sense problem.
Y=The real problem (white supremacy and who benefits).
So x could be anything. It depends on the other variables or Y. In this case, both X and Y are a social event which lacked dark-skinned people, so both X and Y are the same. But the observer is only aware of X cuz he/she is only using common sense that (for some reason) doesn't lead him/her to anything else.
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 809
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
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Tonya: I only believe in syllogisms for standardized tests not real life, which there is no formula to ensure that it is lived righteously.
Also, I'm not talking about formal politics, as in political parties and participation in the electoral process.
I mean the broader sense of politics, such as power relations, discourse, ideology and regula ol views!
So that when I say color, i'm talkin about phenotype/skin. When I say politics, I'm talking about peoples' views, discourses, ideologies, etc....on or about skin/phenotype.
In other words, you can't judge a book by its cover. The cover is the color and the book/content=politics...a person has to express their beliefs before you know their opinion, you can not just look and say, "oh, she must think she all that...cuz she light skinned!" One should, I believe, allow the person to expresses herself/himself before one judges. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 561
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 05:51 pm: |
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Now, Wait a minute Yukio! --
You said:
I'm not talking about formal politics, as in political parties and participation in the electoral process. I mean the broader sense of politics, such as power relations, discourse, ideology and regula ol views!
Tonya:
We're discussing what divides people. You said An individual's politics. Surely you didn't mean an individual's politics divides us all. I'm assuming you meant our individual politics as a group and how it conflicts and causes division. If that's so, how else can you measure that without examining the whole group. I'm measuring America's response to politics, or, as you put it, situation's involving power relations, discourse, ideology and views. One way to measure such a thing is through the media and it's coverage of formal politics.
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 810
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 06:29 pm: |
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Tonya: You are correct. I did not mean that an individual's politics divides all of us. Yes, one way is to look at formal politics.
Another way, and perhaps more interesting, is to look at how ideas, ideology, discourses can do the same work that formal politics do.
If we talk about slavery, for example, we can talk about the legal institution--laws and the administration of such.
We can also talk about how masters accomodated slaves, over a period of time, so that they could have the weekends off and attend to their gardens and they could also go to town to sell their produce, hand crafts, etc....
Now, of course, slaves were slaves, but this particular negotiation between master and slave speaks to the very little power, but nevertheless power, slaves had to push their masters gave them some respite. Now, though working on their own gardens, they were responsible for their own food, which reduced the responsibility of masters. This example does speak to the power relations of slavery in a different way that using formal slavery could not.
Color is obviously the same issue. we can not talk about formal politics (unless we talk about the number of fair skinned black reps. vs. the number of darkskinned), but we can talk about how color gives some of us more privilege than others... |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 123
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 07:28 pm: |
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Tonya --
"Oh, god! please don't make me go over that again"
I'll spare you the effort. BBL. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 562
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 07:43 pm: |
|
Your examples do seem like a more interesting way to look at it. For the most part, they offer a historical view of local politics; and a small portion speak of a historical evaluation of the federal government (the legal branch).
Yukio:
We can also talk about how masters accomodated slaves, over a period of time, so that they could have the weekends off and attend to their gardens and they could also go to town to sell their produce, hand crafts, etc....
Now, of course, slaves were slaves, but this particular negotiation between master and slave speaks to the very little power, but nevertheless power, slaves had to push their masters gave them some respite. Now, though working on their own gardens, they were responsible for their own food, which reduced the responsibility of masters. This example does speak to the power relations of slavery in a different way that using formal slavery could not.
Tonya:
We're these privileged slaves mostly light/mixed? It would be impossible to talk about that part of your post without asking said question -- Is that your point?
Yukio:
Color is obviously the same issue. we can not talk about formal politics (unless we talk about the number of fair skinned black reps. vs. the number of darkskinned), but we can talk about how color gives some of us more privilege than others...
Tonya:
I don't understand. Wouldn't both topics result in the exact same discussion? Again, is that your point?
Could your overall point be that using a historical view of politics is a more interesting way to analyze division and/or colorism?
Tonya
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 563
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 07:47 pm: |
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Thanks, Nels. Not that I mind the effort. BTW, what does "BBL" means? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 564
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 07:48 pm: |
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I hope not black and lazy.... LMBAO! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 618
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 08:07 pm: |
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Anyone who takes a good long look....
...at the multitudes of almost EVENLY dark skinned survivors of the NEW ORLEANS hurricane...
...can see that Yukio's whole bombastic argument is blown out of the water.
COLOR
IS
theeee
most singularly POLITICAL part of politics
there is.
It's the root activator in Racism.
And Color and Racism affect the very darkest of us THE MOST.
Alek Wek will experience MUCH MORE color/race prejudice than Kola Boof will----and I will experience much more than Halle Berry will-----and Halle will experience much more than Mariah Carey (who is not black) will-----and Mariah Carey and Cher will experience much more than Reese Witherspoon will.
It can't be put any better than that.
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 811
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 08:46 pm: |
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Tonya:
We're these privileged slaves mostly light/mixed? It would be impossible to talk about that part of your post without asking said question -- Is that your point?
Yukio: I defined politcs and provided an example that as far as I know, had nothing to do with color.
They were no more privileged than other slaves. This was part of the general slave community decades before the civil war. US slavery was a rather old institution, so from the late 1690s to 1850s, slaves and masters fought over these allowances. For the most part, slaves lost. They were slaves, but overtime slaves gained certain rights that were understood as customs rather than legal rights, but rights the same.
This example is from historian Ira Berlin's Many Thousands Gone.
Tonya:
Could your overall point be that using a historical view of politics is a more interesting way to analyze division and/or colorism?
Yukio:
It could be, but it wasn't MY overall point. I was just talking about politics, using slavery as a case. You could do the same, and use color as the case.
As it pertains to socalled color consciousness and black folk, I think it is helpful to consider:
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
Kola: At no point have I said that dark/lightened skinned people receive more or less discrimination.
From your syllogism, I'm not sure who would receive the most or the least....this is a question of quantity, but I do know that it may be qualitatively different, as in the prejudice light skinned folk may receive from dark skinned people. And the privileges they may receive from whites, though, interestingly, when I see sisters with white men...it is usually the darker sisters...
My point has always been the problematic of judging a book by its cover!
Hypothetically, we could have alek wek and reese witherspoon standing together, and from their color/phenotype we would know NOTHING of their view/politics. They must ACT in some way and then we can make some kind of assessment! Or you, the analyst, will make assumption based upon your own biases and cultural assumptions.
COLOR is empty w/o action! We need action...someone has to do something....then we can name, describe, analyze it! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 565
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 08:47 pm: |
|
Tonya:
Color is obviously the same issue. we can not talk about formal politics (unless we talk about the number of fair skinned black reps. vs. the number of darkskinned), but we can talk about how color gives some of us more privilege than others...
Tonya:
Now, I gotchu, I think. But it took Kola's post for me to figure it out. Are saying we cannot talk about politics without discussing race/color; but we can do the reverse? If so, How? And would it be a comprehensive/detailed discussion?
Tonya
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 812
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
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Tonya:
Let me try it your way. If my case study was colorism within the black comunity. I differentiated the (a)color from (b) the beliefs about color in order to distinguish the (a)object from (b)beliefs about the object. (B) is a broader notion of politics and (C) is formal politics.
1. Differentiate (a) from (b)
2. Differentiate (b) from (c), because when I used the term politics, I was talking about B NOT C.
At not point was I stating which is more "comprehensive/detailed." I gave usable definitions. Now, I do think both B and C are necessary, though I think we don't give enough attention to B, although it is what we talk about here and in our homes more so that C/formal politics. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 566
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:15 pm: |
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Another thing Yukio, it didn't sound like you considered your examples as having anything to do with politics, in fact, it appeared you were trying to state the contrary --
Yukio:
Another way, and perhaps more interesting, is to look at how ideas, ideology, discourses can do the same work that formal politics do.... If we talk about slavery, for example...
You also said:
As it pertains to socalled color consciousness and black folk, I think it is helpful to consider:
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
Tonya:
Can't you say that about EVERY HUMAN regarding EVERY SUBJECT?
Tonya
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 567
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:35 pm: |
|
Hmmmm. My questions were REAL SIMPLE, maybe I asked them the wrong way.
I'll ask ONE of them again:
Are saying it's impossible to talk about politics without discussing race/color but it is possible to talk about race/color without discussing politics?
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 568
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:50 pm: |
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Here's my origional set of questions along with your assertion:
Yukio:
Color is obviously the same issue. we can not talk about formal politics (unless we talk about the number of fair skinned black reps. vs. the number of darkskinned), but we can talk about how color gives some of us more privilege than others...
Tonya:
Now, I gotchu, I think. But it took Kola's post for me to figure it out. Are saying we cannot talk about politics without discussing race/color; but we can do the reverse? If so, How? And would it be a comprehensive/detailed discussion?
Were they REALLY that complicated?
Tonya
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 569
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 10:05 pm: |
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Nels,
I'll answer your question because I got a feeling you were calling me a lazy black ass, LOL!
The question was: Can you give up white supremacy privileges without knowing they exist.
The answer is yes. By denoucing that which seems unfair. And common sense should alert you to what's unfair.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 813
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:08 pm: |
|
Tonya:
Another way, and perhaps more interesting, is to look at how ideas, ideology, discourses can do the same work that formal politics do.... If we talk about slavery, for example...
Before I posted the above, I defined politics, which was equivalent to "ideas, ideology, discourses wrote." In other words, I was saying that (B) can address power relations as (C) does.
Tonya:
Can't you say that about EVERY HUMAN regarding EVERY SUBJECT?
Yukio:
Yes.
Tonya:
Now, I gotchu, I think. But it took Kola's post for me to figure it out. Are saying we cannot talk about politics without discussing race/color; but we can do the reverse? If so, How? And would it be a comprehensive/detailed discussion?
Yukio:
No, you don't.
My point about politics had nothing to do with color and race. Furthermore, Kola's post has not relation to mine. We are discussing different issues, although the topic of color is the same.
So my answer is no, I not saying anything of the sort. Now, what do I think about your question in general?
I don't think we can discuss race/color without talking about politics. Race/color is the subject and politics pertains to the power relations involved in the subject. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 570
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:41 am: |
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LOGIC MIGHT BE A KILLA!
...BUT COMMON SENSE WILL BLOW YOUR MUTHA FUCKIN MIND!
...Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 09:36 pm
I think you're trying to blow my mind and make me lose my common sense in the process so (a) you can prove that common sense ain't the only thing that will blow your mind and (b) I can understand your logic.
... Cuz it's a killa, alright.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 814
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 01:11 am: |
|
My dear, I thought I answered your question:
I don't think we can discuss race/color without talking about politics. Race/color is the subject and politics pertains to the power relations involved in the subject.
Politics can pertain to any subject or topic, right? If we are talking about power, we are talking about politics! And power is embedded into most human relations...between parent and child, student and teacher, husband and wife, sister and brother, black and white, heterosexual and homosexual, etc....consider the relationship between the politics of sexuality and formal politics. In this case, we can look at the result of the last election. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 571
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:15 am: |
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Tonya:
First of all, you were NOT considering or talking about "FORMAL" politics when you gave your slavery example because you said this --
Yukio:
Yes, one way is to look at formal politics.
Another way, and perhaps more interesting, is to look at how ideas, ideology, discourses can do the same work that formal politics do.
If we talk about slavery, for example, we can talk about the legal institution--laws and the administration of such.
We can also talk about how masters accomodated slaves, over a period of time, so that they could have the weekends off and attend to their gardens and they could also go to town to sell their produce, hand crafts, etc....
Now, of course, slaves were slaves, but this particular negotiation between master and slave speaks to the very little power, but nevertheless power, slaves had to push their masters gave them some respite. Now, though working on their own gardens, they were responsible for their own food, which reduced the responsibility of masters. This example does speak to the power relations of slavery in a different way that using formal slavery could not.
Tonya:
Are you saying that that example had nothing to do with formal politics?
And secondly, you did NOT intend to DEFINE formal politics you were trying to define "an individual's politics" and you even pointed out how you believe it's different from formal politics --
Yukio:
I'm not talking about formal politics, as in political parties and participation in the electoral process.
I mean the broader sense of politics, such as power relations, discourse, ideology and regula ol views!
Tonya:
Lastly, I don't even know what to say about this --
Yukio said:
As it pertains to socalled color consciousness and black folk, I think it is helpful to consider:
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
Tonya asked:
Can't you say that about EVERY HUMAN regarding EVERY SUBJECT?
Yukio responded:
Yes.
Like I said, I don't nkow what to say about that.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 572
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:25 am: |
|
BTW, I'm aware of individual/personal politics (ideology, personal philosophy, outlook, perspective ect.) but they do not apply to what we're discussing. Not in the way we're discussing it. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 815
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
|
Tonya: BTW, I'm aware of individual/personal politics (ideology, personal philosophy, outlook, perspective ect.) but they do not apply to what we're discussing. Not in the way we're discussing it.
Yukio: You have brought this question of individual politics to the fore. Furthermore, we understand society through using individuals as examples to make a general point. This is indeed what you have already stated:
Yukio, I agree with most of what you said.... I'm sure you understand that when I speak, I'm speaking in general terms. I think MOST of the people who participate/read these boards knows enough about their history and colorism to understand how/where I'm comming from.
Yukio:
You were talking about what an individual should do if they were given more because of their lighter complexion, right? And you proceeded with the point that one should renouce this or give it up, right?
Tonya:
It doesn't matter how you got there; if you benefit from it, it's unscrupulous... in fact, it's much worse than benefiting from white supremacy alone. Even white folk are starting to talk about it. They want to know how an individual who's not much blacker than they are can benefit from affirmative action and other social programs.
Yukio:
All of this is about what a individual should do; It is not about challenging race at the structural or institutional level.
The poverty of this discussion is that it has yet to address this question of cultural love, one that embraces the diversity of black complexions....a darkskinned or lightskinned one would not work....too many people would be excluded....too many people of various complexions around the world would read this thread and be offended by the equation of an authentic black person with a dark skinned complexion...though i believe Kola's diatribe doesn't represent Africans but her damn self, even if she was correct the african diaspora is too large, and these folk are everywhere...german, london of course, the US, brasil, the west indies, Latin America, etc.....who have lived through various anticolonial struggles and independence movements and who consider themselves black and live their own respective black experience!
Of couse we all have our anecdotal stories about a brasil who didn't want to be considered black and a venzuelan or puerto rican, etc...who didn't consider themselves black, but this is, as I state, anecdotal...it is not representative of all of these people and it is really a slap in the face to use one's national or ethnic history (particular) as the history of the group (universal)! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 816
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 01:54 pm: |
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right. at no point have i been talkin about formal politics. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 573
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 03:13 pm: |
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You're trippin Yukio. First we we're talking about black, white, dark, light/mixed, white supremacy privileges, and affirmative action. Then you said that color doesn't devide us as much as an individual's politics and it isn't on people's mind like how an individual's politics are. Since we're talking about black folks, white folks, affirmative action, division, white supremacy privilege (what to do and who benefits), and what's on everyboby's mind, how could I (or you for that matter) not think about formal politics. Yes, at first we were talking about what the individual should do but you took the focus off the individual when you brought up division and what's on everybody's mind.
Furthermore, you were absolutely right when you said every relationship has its politics and of coure you know that every group has its politics too ( friends, co-workers, blacks, whites ect). But the relationship between slave and slave master is DO TO FORMAL POLITICS, therefore, it's political on all fronts.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 574
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 03:41 pm: |
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It doesn't matter how you got there; if you benefit from it, it's unscrupulous... in fact, it's much worse than benefiting from white supremacy alone. Even white folk are starting to talk about it. They want to know how an individual who's not much blacker than they are can benefit from affirmative action and other social programs. -- Tonya
Yukio:
All of this is about what a individual should do; It is not about challenging race at the structural or institutional level.
Tonya:
Huh? It is? It's not?
You're trippin, Yukio!
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 817
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 04:05 pm: |
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There is a semantical misunderstanding here. Otherwise, we can agree to disagree.
Tonya
It doesn't matter how you got there; if you benefit from it, it's unscrupulous... in fact, it's much worse than benefiting from white supremacy alone. Even white folk are starting to talk about it. They want to know how an individual who's not much blacker than they are can benefit from affirmative action and other social programs. -- Tonya
Your example pertains to an individual's reaction. If you write “if YOU benefit from it,” Tonya, you are talking about an individual. I understand that you are saying that there is a societal problem as it pertains to color that the individual is responding to. But that response depends on their individual's politics.
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 818
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 04:22 pm: |
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Tonya:
Then you said that color doesn't devide us as much as an individual's politics and it isn't on people's mind like how an individual's politics are.
No that is an incorrect interpretation. Color is a thing, your phenotype. Politics in general includes ideas, ideology, and actions. Politics in this conversation are ideas, ideology, and actions as related to and or about phenotype.
Conceptually speaking, it is not color/phenotype but the meaning we attach to the thing, phenotype. If you travel around the world, phenotype will have different many in different places. You can be white in mexico but you will be mexican here. You will be an immigrant with an accent. On a visual level you will be treated differently, once your mouth opens then your treatment will depend on where you are....but you are still not a U.S. citizen.
Tonya:
Yes, at first we were talking about what the individual should do but you took the focus off the individual when you brought up division and what's on everybody's mind.
Yukio: It is and was already what was on everybody's mind. Is this not about what we believe? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 819
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
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oops...it is and was already always on everybody's mind. Is it not always about what we believe rather than what "is"? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 577
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 06:30 pm: |
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Yukio said:
Your example pertains to an individual's reaction.
Tonya:
An individual's reaction to what, Yukio?
...White supremacy, the oppresion of black folks, and the argument made by whites about affirmative action. correct?
Well, let's look at the ENTIRE quote:
After what white supremacy has done to black folk for so many years, to be placed above the rest because you are a part of what systematically and brutally oppressed them for centuries is, IMHO, beyond immoral. It doesn't matter how you got there; if you benefit from it, it's unscrupulous... in fact, it's much worse than benefiting from white supremacy alone. Even white folk are starting to talk about it. They want to know how an individual who's not much blacker than they are can benefit from affirmative action and other social programs. -- Tonya
Afterwards, you suggested I be more comprehensive when discussing affimative action, giving me examples of how to do so. Then we discussed my logic and finally, you brought up division, politics, and what people are/aren't thinking.
Yukio said:
All of this is about what an individual should do; It is not about challenging race at the structural or institutional level.
Tonya:
What an individual should do about what, Yukio?
...White supremacy, the oppresion of black folks, and the argument made by whites about affirmative action????
Well, gee... I don't know... Wouldn't wanna pull anything out of my ass... but CHALLENGING RACE ON EVERY LEVEL could be an OBVIOUS answer!
_________________________________________________
Tonya said:
Now, Wait a minute Yukio! --
We're discussing what divides people. You said An individual's politics. Surely you didn't mean an individual's politics divides us all. I'm assuming you meant our individual politics as a group and how it conflicts and causes division. If that's so, how else can you measure that without examining the whole group. I'm measuring America's response to politics, or, as you put it, situation's involving power relations, discourse, ideology and views. One way to measure such a thing is through the media and it's coverage of formal politics.
Yukio said:
Tonya, You are correct. I did not mean that an individual's politics divides all of us. Yes, one way is to look at formal politics.
Tonya said:
Then you said that color doesn't devide us as much as an individual's politics and it isn't on people's mind like how an individual's politics are.
Yukio said:
No that is an incorrect interpretation. Color is a thing, your phenotype. Politics in general includes ideas, ideology, and actions. Politics in this conversation are ideas, ideology, and actions as related to and or about phenotype.
Tonya:
Again, huh? When did we discuss phenotype and black politics? And we didn't DISCUSS politcs in general; we debated which form of politics was appropriate for our discussion, remember?
But you're right. Let's just agree to disagree.
Tonya
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 578
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 06:45 pm: |
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BTW, when it comes to affirmative action and this discussion I agree 100% that white people have a good argument; but ultimately, I have to side with privileged black folks because, after all, it was white people and their "one drop rule" that put both parties in this position in the first place.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 821
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 09:18 pm: |
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tonya: my last post states that we have semantical differences. Consequently, from the very beginning most of this rather long exchange has been through misinterpretation...lmao! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 822
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 09:45 pm: |
|
Tonya: Also my 4:05 agrees with your 6:30 pm post. I stated that an individual's response to societal colorism.
Here's the 4:05 statement:
Your example pertains to an individual's reaction. If you write “if YOU benefit from it,” Tonya, you are talking about an individual. I understand that you are saying that there is a societal problem as it pertains to color that the individual is responding to. But that response depends on their individual's politics.
You stated:
Again, huh? When did we discuss phenotype and black politics? And we didn't DISCUSS politcs in general.
Again, this is about semantics, as well as a failure for us to agree on basic terminology. As I see it, we have always been talking about black politics. We are talking about how blacks' views and issues about color and how it is related to privilege. This is politics, not electoral politcs. It is about who does and does not have power. Your argument was that light skinned people have more power than dark skinned people because of white supremacy.
We have always been talking about phenotype! Phenotype-the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment. In other words, your skin complexion, YOUR COLOR.
A possible problem is that you are SO color struck that you can not consider the possibility that your skin complexion has no significance unless this world gives it meaninging.
Tonya:
And we didn't DISCUSS politcs in general; we debated which form of politics was appropriate for our discussion, remember?
According to my working definition of politics, we have always been talking about power. We never debated anything, as I understand the word debate...It have been, as Nels would say, rather "circuitous." If anything, I have only stated that many folk do not think about color as much as you may think they do. Of course, this doesn't diminish the quality of your analysis nor the significance that this country has with race. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 580
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 09:49 am: |
|
Yukio:
Your argument was that light skinned people have more power than dark skinned people because of white supremacy.
Tonya:
As you said to Kola Boof during your October 11, 08:36 post...
reading is fundamental!
My argument was about MORALITY. It had NOTHING to do with power and or politics. Yes, it was partly about White supremacy, but the morality of it, NOT THE POLITICS. If it were, I'd've easily argued on the behalf of the light/mixed people because, politically, they're absolutely right.... They're looking out for themselves -- You can't blame them for that.... But you CAN talk about their scruples... which is EXACTLY what I did, REMEMBER?
Yukio:
As I see it, we have always been talking about black politics. We are talking about how blacks' views and issues about color and how it is related to privilege. This is politics, not electoral politcs. It is about who does and does not have power
Tonya:
It doesn't surprise me that you'd see it that way because that way serves your argument and, face it, that's what this is really about.
Anyway, we were NOT talking about black people's views the whole time--At first, we talked about mine and we briefly discussed the views of white people regarding affimative action. When you brought up divisiveness and what's on peoples mind, that's when we bagan talking about your views, the views of blacks and those of Americans in general--It started getting political at that point - and that's also when we started talking formal politics. Eearly on we were discussing color and privilage but ONLY as they pertain to morality.
So, ya see... we were NOT dicussing power and politics until later on when you interjected it.
Yukio:
We have always been talking about phenotype! Phenotype-the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment. In other words, your skin complexion, YOUR COLOR.
Tonya:
First of all, you ain't gotta define phenotype for me because even if I didn't know the meaning I'm smart enough to look it up. You should've defined genotype cuz that's what I had to look up. And the only reason I did that was to see if you actually went that far to say "genetics" - which ya did. But I'm not gonna pass judgement on you like you did when you suggested I'm color-struck.
Anyhow, yeah, we "talked about phenotype!" cuz we talked about the ability to recognize dark skin, blood, and skin born privileges. But all of that was in the context of morality; therefore, we didn't politicize phenotypes. Also, since you want to get technical, keep in mind that we spent most of the time talking about what the organisms did, what the organisms should do, what happened to the organisms, and what the organisms might be thinking; so we didn't even politicize the organisms' phenotypes when YOU started geting/talking political.
...Ha! Ha!... Take that!
Yukio:
According to my working definition of politics, we have always been talking about power.
Tonya:
Tsk-tsk!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 824
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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Tonya: Again, I see politics.
"Eearly on we were discussing color and privilage but ONLY as they pertain to morality."
Definitions of politics:
-social relations involving authority or power
-the study of government of states and other political units
-the profession devoted to governing and to political affairs
-the opinion you hold with respect to political questions
-Politics is the process and method of making decisions for groups. Although it is generally applied to governments, politics is also observed in all human group interactions including corporate, academic, and religious.
-The distribution of power within a society; the forces behind a society-human or divine.
A discussion of morality is always a discussion of politics; it is a discussion of power dynamics. To judge someone as immoral, as you have done, and to argue that they should give something up is an expression of power.
Tonya:
But I'm not gonna pass judgement on you like you did when you suggested I'm color-struck.
Are you not the author of the thread "If you could, would you kick out..."?
Your first post was: Self-hating black women colorist black men and (SOME) high yellow bitches.
Sounds color struck to me!
Tonya:
Also, since you want to get technical, keep in mind that we spent most of the time talking about what the organisms did, what the organisms should do, what happened to the organisms, and what the organisms might be thinking; so we didn't even politicize the organisms' phenotypes when YOU started geting/talking political.
...Ha! Ha!... Take that!
To discuss what "what the organisms did, what the organisms should do, what happened to the organisms, and what the organisms might be thinking" is in fact politics. Again, it is not party politics, but we definitely talked about politics. What you fail to understand is that, there is little that doesn't involve power relations. The acceptance of privilege, which is for you an act immorality, is the expression of that person's power within a white supremacist society. This person may be "immoral," but they have the power to get what you can not. If you could shame this person to a degree that they renounced their privilege, then that would be your power to influence a person to do something.
At any rate, I did not intend to question your intellect; I provided a definition (as I've done again) so that we could have a common understanding. As I see it, when discussants do not have a common ground on terms, at least on working definitions, there is very little will mutual understanding.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 582
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 12:18 am: |
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When two or more people congregate, their INTERACTIONS can be defined as political -- In other words -their interactions is what makes the association political. Words can't interact... therefore, WORDS ARE NOT POLITICAL....
Not unless you make them.
Yukio:
A discussion of morality is always a discussion of politics; it is a discussion of power dynamics. To judge someone as immoral, as you have done, and to argue that they should give something up is an expression of power.
Tonya:
This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. A discussion about morality is NOT always a discussion about politics. If I say to someone, " guess what? morality simply means right from wrong." and that person turns to me and say, " gee, is that so?" and I say, "yup." would that be a political discussion? Of course not. So just because I discussed morality in my post does not mean it was political. And out of virtually all the words in the English language morality is the least political; unless influence and power is involved, which brings me to my next point: My WORDS are just my opinions. I lack the power and influence to make them anything else. Of course that could be estimated and debated but I'm willing to bank that I'd get more candidates for my side then you'd get for yours. (Shut up, Cynnique!) I'd go into why this is true but my ego won't allow me to debase myself that way, nevertheless, I'm sure you get my point. It's not like I'm the President, the Pope, or a celebrity. People are not going to automatically respond to what I say, how I say, or when I say it. Even as an average citizen I don't have the kind of influence (power) to make the masses respond to what I say. An "expression of power" can only be made if you have the power to make it. So, my words were not political because I don't have the power to make them that way. Also they were just my assesments, judgments, and views. I NEVER told anyone what to do -- I simply told them what I thought and it (my post) was titled: My2cents.
Tonya said:
But I'm not gonna pass judgement on you like you did when you suggested I'm color-struck.
Yukio responded:
Are you not the author of the thread "If you could, would you kick out..."? Your first post was: Self-hating black women colorist black men and (SOME) high yellow bitches.
Tonya:
Yes, I'm the author. Did I suggest having you kicked out? I'm serious. Did I?
Yukio:
Sounds color struck to me!
Tonya:
Well, coming from a guy who thinks "common sense" is too broad of a term...
that's not an insult, to me.
Yukio:
To discuss what "what the organisms did, what the organisms should do, what happened to the organisms, and what the organisms might be thinking" is in fact politics.
Tonya:
My bad - I thought it was science.
Yukio:
I did not intend to question your intellect; I provided a definition (as I've done again) so that we could have a common understanding. As I see it, when discussants do not have a common ground on terms, at least on working definitions, there is very little will mutual understanding.
Tonya:
Yeah, I gess you're right. You struggled to define politics five or six times during our discussion and, save the first attempt, each time you were way off the mark. I wanted to help you out but I didn't want to insult your intellegence. But it looks like you pulled out the dictionary, encyclopedia, and did google search this time. Congratulations! You finally got it right.
By the way, just like not all discussions are political neither are all relationships.
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 830
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 04:05 am: |
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Tonya:
I continue to disagree with you. Anytime, we discuss what is right and wrong, we are talking about power. It is not a question of preponderance. You don't have to be the pope or a president.
It is a question of the presence of power and its expression and articulation. If you attend a storefront church, a little itty bitty one. And you show up (a) late (b) wearing what seem like Saturday night/ sunday morning party clothes, the congregation, especially the ol' folk, gon give you a look over. Now, don't act like you wont be uh-shamed. I believe most folk would. Nevertheless, the congregation in the itty bitty storefront church has influenced you so that you are self-consciousness, uncomfortable, etc... The fact that the congregation was motivated to act was itself also political.
I gone. We can not come to a common ground on basic terms. You seem to prefer ruse rather than analysis and collegial intellectual exchange.
Farewell! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 585
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
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Yukio:
I continue to disagree with you. Anytime, we discuss what is right and wrong, we are talking about power. It is not a question of preponderance. You don't have to be the pope or a president.
Tonya:
Politics, SIMPLY PUT, is two or more parties fighting (reacting) for power...
that's all.
...So, you can "talk about power" without seeking it. As I said before, it's not your WORDS, it's your ACTIONS.
...If you have two or more people (a group) where nobody's seeking power, things won't get political, no matter what they're discussing. I have conversations with my sister who is a practicing christain, all the time. She believes gays are immoral. I disagree. She respects my views. I respect hers. We learn a lot fom each other. It never gets political. why? Because we're not jockeying for power. She's not trying to get me to accept her views and she's isn't trying to make her views law. I'm the same. When two people respect each others views and they're not fighting for power (e.g. to have their point heard louder than the other person, or serve their agenda) things will never get political.
And, my example of the Pope and President was to illustrate how words can be political simply because of the person it's coming from. Take Bill cosby, for exanple, he said some things that became extremely political; but they only became that way because they were coming from bill cosby. If they were coming from me, It wouldn't've been a big deal. If they were coming from P. Diddy or Whoopi Goldberg it may have been a big deal but it (most likely) wouldn't have become political.
...There it is, plain and simple.
Our problem wasn't that "I seem to prefer ruse rather than analysis and collegial intellectual exchange." It was that, until now, you didn't unerstand the meaning(s) of the word "political"; and, you come across as a type of person who doesn't like people correcting you, especailly those you feel you're intellectually superior to.... So I honestly hope you don't mine me taking the time to simplify things for you.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 587
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 01:02 pm: |
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Let me rephrase that:
Our problem wasn't that "I seem to prefer ruse rather than analysis and collegial intellectual exchange" -- It was that, until now, you didn't understand the meaning(s) of the word "political"; and, that you come across as the type of person who doesn't like people correcting him, especailly those he feel he's intellectually superior to.
...That said, I sincerely hope you don't mine me taking the time to simplify things for you.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 834
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 02:03 pm: |
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Tonya:
If you say so, Tonya. There was no misunderstanding on my part. All of the definitions that I provided represent a component of what it means to be political and politics in general. At no point have you provided a workable definition of such. To date your own conceptualization of politics has been:
When two or more people congregate, their INTERACTIONS can be defined as political -- In other words -their interactions is what makes the association political. Words can't interact... therefore, WORDS ARE NOT POLITICAL....
This is useful, but the content of the interaction is underdeveloped. What is missing is an acknowledgement of power.
What you fail to see is that all of my definitions represent power dynamics in some form. Where you see differences I see sameness, different examples of the same point.
As far as what "come(s)across," and you correcting me, I am surprised of your claim. It is, nevertheless, an interesting insight on your part. I have only questioned your logic, never your intelligence, not even your common sense. I haven't even made indirect or masked attempts to suggest that you were unintelligent.
With that said, you might want to point the finger at yourself. Your diatribes about intelligence suggest some intellectual insecurity on your part, sister. Do I need to provide some evidence for my claim? Lets see:
First of all, you ain't gotta define phenotype for me because even if I didn't know the meaning I'm smart enough to look it up. You should've defined genotype cuz that's what I had to look up. And the only reason I did that was to see if you actually went that far to say "genetics" - which ya did. But I'm not gonna pass judgement on you like you did when you suggested I'm color-struck.
Yukio (my rejected attempt at collegiality):
I did not intend to question your intellect; I provided a definition (as I've done again) so that we could have a common understanding. As I see it, when discussants do not have a common ground on terms, at least on working definitions, there is very little will mutual understanding.
Tonya:
Yeah, I gess you're right. You struggled to define politics five or six times during our discussion and, save the first attempt, each time you were way off the mark. I wanted to help you out but I didn't want to insult your intellegence. But it looks like you pulled out the dictionary, encyclopedia, and did google search this time. Congratulations! You finally got it right.
Our problem wasn't that "I seem to prefer ruse rather than analysis and collegial intellectual exchange" -- It was that, until now, you didn't understand the meaning(s) of the word "political"; and, that you come across as the type of person who doesn't like people correcting him, especailly those he feel he's intellectually superior to.
...That said, I sincerely hope you don't mine me taking the time to simplify things for you.
Tonya, all of this suggest some intellectual insecurity on your part. Again, I have not questioned your intellect, common, or anything related to your cognitive prowess.
As Jigga said, you need a hug!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 592
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 06:24 pm: |
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I need a hug?!! Boy please!
You started out by calling me color-struck. (That's when it all started, so let's get that straight). I retaliated by pointing out your undeserved smugness -- providing the difinition of a word that, first of all, was never in dispute; and secondly, used by you so often that EVERYBODY who freguents these boards knows the meaning, the root, the prefix the suffix, hell, you use the shit so much, we even know what it means in Latin, German, and in Portuguese.
But after I justifiably retaliated you said the following:
I did not intend to question your intellect; I provided a definition (as I've done again) so that we could have a common understanding. As I see it, when discussants do not have a common ground on terms, at least on working definitions, there is very little will mutual understanding.
Tonya:
Like I need you to define words so we (ME) can have a "Common understanding."
That statement does not show your audacity to patronize me with another insult disguised in cociliatory bullshit -- What it does is show how asinine you are since it's coming from a nigga who couldn't even define politics.
You are not cute. You're not coming across as condescending, pompous, or arrogant -- You're coming across as nothing more than a dimwitted asshole.
Yukio:
All of the definitions that I provided represent a component of what it means to be political and politics in general.
Tonya:
That's not good enough. Especially when almost all of them were lacking the word "power" and were not linked to an association (with anyone or anything).
Yukio:
At no point have you provided a workable definition of such. To date your own conceptualization of politics has been:
When two or more people congregate, their INTERACTIONS can be defined as political -- In other words -their interactions is what makes the association political. Words can't interact... therefore, WORDS ARE NOT POLITICAL....
Tonya:
You're right about one thing -- That was not my way of defining politics. It was my way of letting you know that the word "morality" and discussions about it is NOT automatically political and that you're assertion was pure and utter bullshit. So, yeah, you're right about that one. But if, after reading my last post, you think I haven't provided you with a "workable" difinition of politics, nuff said.
Before we part, though, allow me to explain how I can NOT believe you had the NERVE to even fix your creepy lips to say I'm the one who's insecure. You need to stop! After I sat throughout this whole conversation biting my tongue while you continued to give weird, after weird, after weird answers to cover up the fact that your crazy ass just don't don't what the fuck you are talking about. And when I'd ask you a question, you'd get all defensive instead of just answering the fuckig question; yet I'm the one that's insecure???
...Please Nigga!
Not once could You simply come out and say, "I'M WRONG". You Just kept getting more and more bizarre.... Saying shit like:
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
Get the fuck out of here - you anal, psychotic, serial killing, control freak.
Tonya
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 135
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
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Tonya --
God Damn! Whew! I take it you're more than a little pissed? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 839
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 09:51 pm: |
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Nels: "A little" pissed?
Tonya: Okay, you need two hugs and a session in the mirror, where you repeat how intelligent you are. What can I say...you started!
When I say color struck, I mean you are consumed with colorisms. At any rate, the fact that I called you color struck has nothing to do with your intelligence. You as EVERYONE knows have perpetually spouted off hateration towards "Self-hating black women colorist black men and (SOME) high yellow bitches." The thread "If you could, who would you kick out of the black race?" is only a recent evidence of my claim (it is only a claim!). The fact that you have not said that I need to get kicked out is irrelevant to your history here at AALBC.COM's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board.
As it relates to my inability to define politics, lets check the evidence. Or as Clair Huxtable would say, "Let the record show":
You responded to this statement, posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 03:30 am:
Color is not the most divisive, to use Kola's word, to me. An individual's politics, and one can not know that from color!
Your response, posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 01:26 pm:
An iniviidual's "politics."
Well, why is it that the threads that have anything to do with color get 99.9999% more responses and conflicting views than the ones that deal with politics? I'm pretty sure they get more hits, too.
And why is it that when race or somebody's racist comment is brought up in this country it gets more coverage than Allan Greenspan's projections for the foreseeable future, Ted Kennedy - Robert Bird - or John Mccain's latest proposal, Tom DeLay's Two indictments, and Karl Rove's potential indictment?
I think color (and race for that matter) IS on EVERYBODY'S mind. It's just too Taboo to talk about, and that's our problem. That could be (X).
My reply to you AND first definition of politics, posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 04:23 pm:
Also, I'm not talking about formal politics, as in political parties and participation in the electoral process.
I mean the broader sense of politics, such as POWER relations, discourse, ideology and regula ol views!
Thus your claim, "Especially when almost all of them were lacking the word "power" and were not linked to an association (with anyone or anything)" holds little water! I did indeed mention POWER, and association is embedded in the phrases and terms power RELATIONS, DISCOURSE, IDEOLOGY and REGULA OL VIEWS. All imply verbal and/or cognitive interaction among people.
Finally, let me explain what you call "weird":
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
1)What is in your head= you believe that I've questioned your intelligence.
2)What you project on the subject- your insecurity is what you project on me/subject.
3)What is in the subject's head- I think you are passionate, you get caught on in the debate and loose sense of the discussion, and unfortunately fall to name calling, cussin, etc...
4)what they project upon the world and themselves-I'm trying to project, perhaps poorly, collegiality, respect, and critical engagement, because thats how I want to be treated.
With that said, I apologize for incensing you. I accept your characterizations of me, but I disagree. Both of us have the right to have our opinions. At the same time, I never intended to question your intelligence, emphasis here should be on intent...result is another story! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 594
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 04:05 am: |
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Don't apologize for insulting my intelligence because that was NEVER my claim and, frankly, YOU DON'T HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE to insult me in ANY way; which says a lot about you since I'd be the first to tell you I'm as dense as a tightly packed bag of rocks. It ain't got a damn thing to do with intelligence, especially not yours; and, don't act like you didn't get my last post -- If you're gonna apologize apologize for creepin me the fuck out.
By the way, you forced me to do this:
Yukio said:
As it pertains to socalled color consciousness and black folk, I think it is helpful to consider:
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
Tonya asked:
Can't you say that about EVERY HUMAN regarding EVERY SUBJECT?
Yukio responded:
Yes.
Explain THAT shit, nigga!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 842
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 11:24 am: |
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First off, if I'm called anything, it will be YUKIO not nigga. As it regards intelligence, "what comes off" is that you are insecure. You state:
Don't apologize for insulting my intelligence because that was NEVER my claim
But yet, you have previously written:
First of all, you ain't gotta define phenotype for me because even if I didn't know the meaning I'm smart enough to look it up. You should've defined genotype cuz that's what I had to look up. And the only reason I did that was to see if you actually went that far to say "genetics" - which ya did.
These angry diatribes and the change in your language from respectful disagreement to disrespectful disagreement suggest insecurity and a person who has felt insulted. Also, you constantly bring this question of intelligence up and try, poorly I might add, to insult my intelligence. I have not followed suit. You might try to put more emphasis on your analysis rather than calling people nigga and using shit, fuck, etc...
Your request:
Yukio said:
As it pertains to socalled color consciousness and black folk, I think it is helpful to consider:
What is in your head and what you project on the subject and what is in the subject's head and what they project upon the world and themselves.
Tonya asked:
Can't you say that about EVERY HUMAN regarding EVERY SUBJECT?
Yukio responded:
Yes.
Explain THAT shit, nigga!
Of course. People project their issues on other people, such as colorisms. Sometimes their projections are off the mark, and have nothing to do with the ideas and feelings of the person they are characterizing.
Let us use an example from this thread, shall we?
I (A) NEVER had any intentions of revealing my color, but (B) saw a picture of me and immediately pounced on the idea that I was a colorist because of how I look and something I had a character say in a book I wrote. She then proceeded to use this board as a platform for showing me the error of my ways. Once I refused to let her put me on the defensive, it was on between us and we've been at it ever since.
According to A, B projected her own issues upon A. A doesn't see herself as color struck nor does she believe that she is better than a person of a dark complexion.
Tonya asked:
Can't you say that about EVERY HUMAN regarding EVERY SUBJECT?
Yukio responded:
Yes.
The moral of the story is, take care not to project your own issues on other folk. Find evidence and then proceed! Don't judge a book by its cover...also, ask a person what they mean. One can also project their issues into what they read as well...
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 598
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 03:00 pm: |
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You asshole! I was letting you know that YOU (a guy who goes that far to sound important) don't have to define a damn thing for me.... When people go out of they're way to sound intelligent it's becauase they're covering up stupidity. That's how I see you.
If anything, I was insulting your intelligence, in fact, point to one instance where you insulted mine. When we were debating my logic I was having fun. It was not until your logic came in to question when things began to fall apart. You can't accept being wrong or having your logic challenged; therefore, you're dishonestly projecting your insecurities on to me, but that's what people who cannot accept being wrong do. That's you're problem, BRO. I suggest you have it checked out.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 599
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 03:03 pm: |
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By the way, nigga - I'll call you whatever the fuck I want to call you - you nutty bastard! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 846
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 04:08 pm: |
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Tonya: People define things all the time, not because the other discussant can't do it themselves, but, as I stated, to ensure that the discussant understands where the person is coming from. It is about clarity and collegiality not an assumption that the person doesn't have a dictionary or couldn't understand the word if they could. Also, some words, such as politics, are esoteric and have other meanings that the dictionary may not cover. Finally, all dictionaries aren't made equally.
This is fun. It is amazing how long you can defend an untenable position in the face of the evidence.
WHY would you vehemently protest someone providing a definition for clartiy IF you were not intellectually insecure. Why the cussin? It was not there before!
Evidence suggests that you are intellectually insecure. EVIDENCE! Not mere rhetoric, but the EVIDENCE substantiates my claims. What you have stated, such as "You can't accept being wrong or having your logic challenged" is unsubstantiated, as I have SHOWN in your other claims.
You are bizarre! Lets submit some of your ludicrous and unsubstantiated characterizations of me and my posts:
nigga, weird, nutty bastard, asswhole, dishonesty, insecure, anal, psychotic, serial killing, control freak, crazy ass
Is it not fitting that I choose to end with "crazy ass"? With all of your ranting and diatribes, the latter may be a better description of you than me. "psychotic, serial killing, control freak, crazy ass"? Where does this come from? If I didn't know for sure that you didn't know my true identity, I would seek police protection!
(BTW Thumper and Troy, is my identity protected?)
At any rate, how far have I gone to sound intelligent? How is this measured? Although you have accumulated close to 600 posts, you are a newbie. So unless you have read my more than 800 posts, you have no real way to know. And why should you. It aint that deep! Excluding one case, I have never participated in the naming calling that you have done. Even in that one case, the content emanated from intellectual ideas and critical analysis NOT banter.
---------------------------------
Lets rewind. Another lesson in logic and use of evidence:
Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 04:05 am, you state:
YOU DON'T HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE to insult me in ANY way
Yet later, Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 03:00 pm, you state:
If anything, I was insulting your intelligence, in fact, point to one instance where you insulted mine.
Evidence states that you felt insulted, and consequently retaliated! You have, as the record shows, retaliated when I called you color struck (Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 06:24 pm) and when you felt that I "insulted" your intelligence (sunday, 3 pm).
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 602
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 05:23 pm: |
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Oh, fuck you, nigga! I don't have to deal with you anymore anyway. I kicked you out of the black race.
Now, only if it were that easy to kick my mother out for wearing that god awful bronze wig... my life would be complete.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 848
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 06:15 pm: |
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Yes. I saw that you kicked me out of the black race...lmao! And you claim that you're not color struck!
And leave ya mama, alone. She's grown enough to wear a "god awful wig"! |
Th_ethiopian
Regular Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 02:19 pm: |
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Yukio you yaki dirty scumbag read tonya's lips.......she is saying.......
" no high yellow in my jello" |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 857
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 03:22 pm: |
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Do I know you? "Yukio you yaki dirty scumbag" What is this about? Have some self-respect! |
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