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Stephgirl
Newbie Poster
Username: Stephgirl
Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:47 pm: | 
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What do you think of this article? Just passing it on
Dell Gines
Urban Conservative
First off, I am bi-racial, I have a black father and a white mother. I am married to white woman, and have five kids who are 1/4 black.
There is a difference between something that is morally wrong, and something that has a sociological impact that is positive or negative. So we need to be clear about the distinction.
Interracial relationships are not morally wrong in any way. So let’s get that out of the way.
HOWEVER
Interracial relationship do have a somewhat negative impact when viewed from a macro, big picture, level at this time in history and here is why.
Currently, 60% of all black children do not have a father in the home. It is expected that from this next generation, 1/3 black males will spend time in the penal system. Black males have a much higher infant mortality rate, a much higher rate of being murdered, and a higher rate of mental and physical disabilities.
What in effect all these things do is reduce the availability of what many would consider ‘quality’ mate material.
So, for every black man that marry’s or dates interracially, it reduces the number further of non-’quality’ mates in for black women. Meaning that you have less ‘quality’ fathers in the homes of these single (mostly young) mothers, who have made the mistake of having babies out of wedlock, but want to marry a good father for their children and a good husband for them.
Basically it is a social supply and demand situation. The quality black male is in high demand, but the supply is low, so each male you take out of the supply pool because they are married or date interracially, increases the demand and the value for those who are quality. The more the value for those who are ‘quality’ increases, the more black women will believe that them having a chance at a quality male is impossible, and they settle for males who are less than quality which brings other social ills.
That is a negative sociological impact. It doesn’t mean interracial relationships, as I said, are wrong, but it does mean they can cause a societal impact that is counterproductive to black family stability at this time in our history.
Notes: By quality, I am not talking about the intrinsic value that all men have before God. I am talking about upward mobility, firm parenting skills, ability to provide a positive and sustainable income source for the family, and a desire to be a father.
If he's so down for us, then why didn't he marry one of us black women instead of white women? That's something he needs to think before making such a comment.
Stephanie
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1469
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 01:32 pm: |
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Stephanie:
Do you think any black woman would be happy with him? |
Nels
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 84
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 03:24 am: |
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I don't even think Dell knows what he really wrote. From the way he sounds, he's either very confused about who he really is, or he's just got a bad case of ADD. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 666
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 08:56 am: |
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I don't think he's confused at all. I think, due to his life experiences, his perception just changed over time--life can sometimes do that. He's proably seen and heard some things--been bombed out a few times as well--and has come to some personal, relational conclusions. I also think that sometimes that happens to Biracial/Black men that date or intermarry--they can't find an even balance between their racial identity and relational identity. To me, he is no different than Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones) with the exception that he has made the choice to remain a family unit with his current (white) wife and children.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1472
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 02:04 pm: |
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Moonsigns:
Baraka is not biracial.
And he's married to a Black woman. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 668
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 03:21 pm: |
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I know Baraka is not Biracial. Though Gines is Biracial, I'm quite confident that most people (Americans) would consider him Black--as most Biracials are (racially) identified as. To me, I consider them both Black.
Yeah, Baraka is married to a Black woman NOW--but that wasn't always the case (as I'm sure you already know). His first wife was White and they have a daughter together (Lisa Jones--I think that's her name). To my knowledge, the split of the marriage was fueled by their racial differences. In the case of Gines, despite his political/personal views regarding the Black community, he has stayed with his wife and children--unlike Baraka. Nevertheless, both of them have the same heart in regards to this matter.
This brother isn't confused--he's just in a "situation"--which the reasons for him staying are proably as numerous and complicated as the reasons why he would be "exclusive" if he weren't in the current relationship.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 374
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 03:45 pm: |
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The only part of the article that points to his being confused is his assertion that "Interracial relationships are not morally wrong in any way." Other than that, he doesn't seem "confused" at all.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 375
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 03:56 pm: |
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BTW, Chris, that was an interesting question. The answer is no -- No self assured black women would be happy with someone like that. It's obvious he (Dell) has too much baggage and a lot of soul searching to do/get rid of.
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2636
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 10:22 pm: |
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Talk about confusion. Why would interracial relationships be "morally wrong"? I guess next our self-appointed ethicist will be saying that a tall woman marrying a short man is morally wrong, or a skinny man marrying a fat woman is morally wrong, or a light-skinned woman marrying a dark-skinned man is morally wrong. Who, but a sanctimonious busybody, would presume to make a MORAL judgment about unlike people marrying each other. And, yes, there might be an independent black woman out there who would settle for a conservative; she might look upon an alliance with him as providing her with an opportunity to not only teach him but to learn from him. And never underestimate the the attractiveness of a straight, non-felon with a good job, who turns out to be good in the bed - not to mention that opposites have been known to attract. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 378
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:52 am: |
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Cynnique said/asked:
Talk about confusion. Why would interracial relationships be "morally wrong"?
Tonya says - check this out:
mor·al
1. involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individuals should behave
2. derived from personal conscience: based on what somebody’s conscience suggests is right or wrong, rather than on what the law says should be done
3. in terms of natural justice: regarded in terms of what is known to be right or just, as opposed to what is officially or outwardly declared to be right or just
a moral victory.
4. encouraging goodness and respectability: giving guidance on how to behave decently and honorably
5. good by accepted standards: good or right, when judged by the standards of the average person or society at large
6. telling right from wrong: able to distinguish right from wrong and to make decisions based on that knowledge
7. based on conviction: based on an inner conviction, in the absence of physical proof
npl or mor·als
standards of behavior: principles of right and wrong as they govern standards of general or sexual behavior
Now check out what Dells said:
Interracial relationship do have a somewhat negative impact when viewed from a macro, big picture, level at this time in history and here is why.... they {interracial relationships} can cause a societal impact that is counterproductive to black family stability at this time in our history.
Based on his own thesis, interracial relationships are morally wrong.
And He goes on to say:
The quality black male is in high demand, but the supply is low, so each male you take out of the supply pool because they are married or date interracially, increases the demand and the value for those who are quality. The more the value for those who are ‘quality’ increases, the more black women will believe that them having a chance at a quality male is impossible, and they settle for males who are less than quality which brings other social ills.
He even states these "social ills" more clearly when he says:
...for every black man that marry’s or dates interracially, it reduces the number further of non-’quality’ mates in for black women. Meaning that you have less ‘quality’ fathers in the homes...
If the information concerning black women/families he presented in his article is correct (which it is), then he himself proves that interracial relationships are indeed morally wrong.
I still say that he's not "confused" because all of the information he provided are known facts. He contradicts himself, however, when he asserts that interracial relationships are NOT morally wrong. But given the fact that he's married to a white woman, there's no wonder why he'd choose to contradict himself that way.
By the way, when did I ever say that opposites who choose to marry are morally wrong -- That statement is absurd, isn't it???
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2639
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 09:36 am: |
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Talk about clouding the issue. I wasn't talking about Dells. I used those examples as analogies to point out the fallacy of YOUR value judgment implying that the marriage between 2 people of a different race is immoral. Such unions may be demoralizing to certain people but none of your definitions was relevant to the idea that interracial marriage, per se, is immoral. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 213
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 09:47 am: |
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What would be "morally wrong" is the subconcious reasons for marrying someone. Did skin color play a signifigant role in how he picked his partners? In his case, yeah. But if others chose their partners w/o the blinders of childhood preference conditioning, then, no, it's not morally wrong. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 382
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:56 pm: |
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Cynnique:
I wasn't talking about Dells.
Tonya -- But I was. See:
The only part of the article that points to his being confused is his assertion that "Interracial relationships are not morally wrong in any way." Other than that, he doesn't seem "confused" at all.... September 27, 2005 - 3:45pm
Cynnique:
I used those examples as analogies to point out the fallacy of YOUR value judgment implying that the marriage between 2 people of a different race is immoral.
Tonya:
My proposition (not implication) was flagrantly taken out of context... and that's a fact that was made evident by the absolute absurdity of your "examples" and "analogies".
Cynnique:
...none of your definitions was relevant to the idea that interracial marriage, per se, is immoral.
Tonya:
When did I ever put forward the idea that interracial marriage ("per se") is immoral???
Roxie:
What would be "morally wrong" is the subconcious reasons for marrying someone. Did skin color play a signifigant role in how he picked his partners? In his case, yeah. But if others chose their partners w/o the blinders of childhood preference conditioning, then, no, it's not morally wrong.
Tonya:
I agree with you 100% - Roxie. You're such a wise young women.... A quality that escapes even the best of us.
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2640
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 02:23 pm: |
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Since we continue to operate from parallel frames of reference, this debate is an exercise in futility, "Tonya." Needless to say I don't agree with you or Roxie's convoluted declaration. "Subconsicous" reasons for marrying someone has more to do with emotional dysfunction than societal morality. |
Afroamerican
Regular Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 32
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 05:03 pm: |
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I do tend to go back and forth on this issue, but here goes:
I do BELIEVE that anyone NOT born of a Afro-American woman should NOT be considered Black or "part of OUR community".
For example, look at the Jewish community. There is a long history/tradition that says half Jews can only be ACCEPTED if their MOTHER is a JEW. The MATERNAL line is what always counts!
With this rule, Jews are able to keep NON-JEWS from raising/birthing Jewish babies! Therefore Jewish woman have COMPLETE control over her "people".
However I also think mixed raced children of Black American women can also be "Afro-American".
I know it sounds like a complete double standard, but I PERSONALLY believe MOTHERS influence their children much, much more than fathers do! Hell in America nowadays, most children (especially ones of AA blood) don't even grow up with a father present any damn way.
I think this "new AA standard" would kill 2 birds with one stone.
1.) It allows Black American women to stop settling for any damn Black man, who in turns soon realizes just how DESPERATE she is and starts treating her like shit.It allows us to date-out!
2.)It just MIGHT finally settle this long, long debate on "who or what is a Black American/ African American". It would finally include some kind of culturally standards to our identity (the culture being passed down by the AA mother). The days of claiming anybody anywhere who's African or of "African descent" is over! As it should be..........
________________
I have been noticing quite a while that the Biracial sons of White women marry WHITE WOMEN 90% of the time. Its ridiculous to PRETEND that such men are part of the Afro-American community or can give us some kind of 'positive insight'.
This guy has no more insight on Black women or the Black community than George W. Bush does!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 384
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 07:36 pm: |
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That's ignorant, Cynnique, and I think you know it.
Emotional dysfunction is caused by environmental influences and/or bio/neuro abnormalities; therefore, societal morality (or immorality) plays a pivotal part in the emotional well-being of an individual, healthy or otherwise.
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2642
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:23 pm: |
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The key word is SUBCONSCIOUS, Dr Freud, since you want to distract from the ambiguousness of Roxie's psycho-babble. In any case, you and her can discuss among yourself. As I said, I'm losing interest in wasting my time on predictable disagreements that go nowhere. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 387
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:45 pm: |
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The subconscious mind is also influenced by environmental - bio/neuro factors.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 388
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:48 pm: |
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Probably even more so than the concscious mind. |
Stephgirl
Newbie Poster
Username: Stephgirl
Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
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Do you think any black woman would be happy with him?
The answer is no because he is a confused and conflicted man IMO.
Stephanie |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 95
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 08:07 pm: |
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Afroamerican, that makes more sense than anything else I've read here. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 214
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 08:12 pm: |
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Tonya,
first:
--You're such a wise young women--
oh,thank you 
Second:
--That's ignorant, Cynnique, and I think you know it. --
When it comes to cynnique, she either doesn't know or doesn't want to acknowledge that she does.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2645
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 09:51 pm: |
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Well, old wise and sage Rox, I know that what you just wrote about me made absolutely no sense, if you parse it. I also know that your pontificating about the subconscious mind doesn't hold up because what you said was rife with subjectivity. You were, in fact, stating an opinion reflective of where you stand on the subject of interracial marriage. You cannot judge a person's morality based on whether or not you approve of what did or did not subconsciously motivate him to a choose particular mate. Now go sit in the corner like a good little prig and wait for "Tonya" to come and rescue you and ply you with false flattery. What a pair. Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 392
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 12:56 pm: |
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You need to learn a thing or two about the "subconscious mind" because the more you speak, the more ignorant you reveal yourself to be.
And, as for being wise, the number one thing wise people know NOT to do is to bitch about something he/she knows absolutely nothing about....
It's one thing to be wrong.. but it's a fucking asshole moment when your dumb ass is LOUD and WRONG.
***You cannot judge a person's morality based on whether or not you approve of what did or did not subconsciously motivate him to a choose particular mate.***
_________________________________________________
Didga read the article???? He judged his own morality. But he puposely chose to contradict himself. Why? Well look at it this way, the outcome of his judgement was NOT based on confusion... because the nigga KNOWS he's wrong in some way -- He said it. So what was his outcome based on then???... Nothing other than guilt. I'm wrong - but I'm not morally wrong, means, I'm quilty, so I have to contradict myself.
He purposely misjudged his own morality, beacuse that's what guilty people do. But it takes a WISE person to see pass the bullshit....
Which explains your position.
Roxie, I took care of the lightweight.... I'm pretty sure someone with your intellect has more crucial things to do.
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2648
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 02:26 pm: |
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Oh shut up, "Tonya". The more you say, the deeper a hole you dig yourself into. Helloooo down there. Having fun tryin to bring order to the chaos of your flawed logic that obfuscates instead of elucidates. Hi, lil Rox. Doin OK, are ya? LMAO. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 396
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 03:31 pm: |
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I'm sorry for confusing you... but, sweetie, it ain't rocket science... so why dont you do what Roxie PLAINLY suggested you do:
"When it comes to cynnique, she either doesn't know or doesn't want to acknowledge that she does."
_________________________________________________
Either acknowledge that you're unwise, or admit to being guilty of being guilty of being you (slimy, immoral, without a conscious)....
Pick your poison, sistah!
And, if your gonna be a house nigger - be one.
Tonya
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Afroamerican
Regular Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 04:13 pm: |
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Thank you Renata!
I think we can start building a more positive community by starting to kick out bad elements (the bad apples).
1.# Building a more MOTHER CENTERED Afro-American culture (kind of how Jews have) and getting rid of the Hip-Hop/Bet culture.
2.# Children who's worship their WHITE MOTHERS and only use their Black ancestry as "minority" benifit. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2649
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 04:54 pm: |
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Are you, "Tonya", somehow under the mistaken impression that you're the HNIC around here - or anywhere else except in your bathroom? It figures that you would fool yourself into believing that your hot air carries some weight. Pitiful. Just take your little "ultimatum" and stick it up your big stupid ass. I'll be as flexible as I want to be, and if you got a problem with that, then slither on back over to Snake Girl's jungle, and parrot her opinions. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 670
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 05:35 pm: |
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Is this brother confused? No. Conflicted? Absolutely.
This is no deep issue. His PAID ass is hearing it--and can't take the heat.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 405
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 06:46 pm: |
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Exactly, Moonsigns. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2652
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 01:21 pm: |
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Moonsigns, keep in mind that you are expressing an opinion, - which seems to be a sticking point here; that and the way the word "immoral" is being bandied about. Dell's detractors are basing their criticism on the fact that they think it's "immoral" of him to subconsciously or consciously prefer someone who doesn't comply with the standards of others. And apparently some would have you believe that's it's "immoral" for him to be confused. This man wrote and essay, and as we all know, the word essay translates into the phrase "I try." And, needless to say it is not a sin to prefer someone who appeals to you, for whatever reason. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 407
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 03:12 pm: |
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(((((((((((((...keep in mind that you are expressing an opinion, - which seems to be a sticking point here; that and the way the word "immoral" is being bandied about.))))))))))))
No, uh-uh, not I!!!
...The word "immoral" has been thorouhgly defined and commented on in total accuracy, by yours truly.
My intentions, by the way, were to do my part in taking back the CORE meaning of the word from the unscrupulously hateful, deviously erroneous, amusingly mythical, and downright nutty, zealots we refer to as the "religious right-wing."
((((((And, needless to say it is not a ***sin*** to prefer someone who appeals to you, for whatever reason.))))))
Looks like we have a live one folks!!!
Tonya
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 675
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 03:14 pm: |
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Yeah, Cynique.
When most people think of the word moral, they relate it to issues regarding spritiuality--not issues of the conscious and subconscious mind. However, I guess in this debate, some people have to dig REAL deep to make a crooked point.
As I have always said, the parts fit. If God thought it to be so wrong, it wouldn't be as such. It's just sad to me that this dude, who apparently really loves his wife (knew she was "the one" and has five children) has to punk out under the pressure of hot breath and bytchin'. Oh well. The world keeps turning.
What a pu**y, though.
Glad he isn't my man.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 416
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 10:15 pm: |
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Now, why, when you have the truth, common sense, and the dictionary (for god's sake) on your side, would you have to dig "deep", or make "crooked" points....LOL!!
And, if I'm coming across as "deep" to y'all... then maybe immorality is not y'all only problem....LOL!!!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 417
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 10:28 pm: |
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Oh, man... here's something else for y'all.
Now, this may be a litte too "deep" for ya'll, so hold on to yo trousers....
Dell's (the author) was using the word "moral" EXACTLY the way I (yours truly) defined it.
OOOOHHH, SHIT!!!! I hope ya'll don't get a headache....LOL!!!
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2663
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 09:42 am: |
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poor silly "tonya", grasping at straws, convinced that she is a mind reader, unable to even put her own mind in order. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 420
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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Where in Dell's article does he EVER mention God, Jesus, christianty, in the eyes of God, spiritualty, anything relating to religion. Every about his article was SECULAR.
He does ackowledge morality, but in a secular CONTEXT of right and wrong. He's talking about society, social ills and whether black men are WRONG (Meaning: right from wrong) for adding to these social ills.
Now, I know why y'all think what I'm saying is "deep" -- Y'all can't UNDERSTAND what I mean/meant when I said (several times) that he was contradicting himself.
No, I don't know how to read minds, but I do have the ablility to COMPREHEND... and I'm surprised I have to explain that to a so-called writer.
I'm not all that surprised that I had to explain it to a moon watcher, though.
LOL!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 421
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
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DELLS: "Interracial relationships are not morally wrong in any way."
"IN ANY WAY"
LMBAO!!!!!!!!!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 422
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
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DELS: "HOWEVER Interracial relationship do have a somewhat negative impact when viewed from a macro, big picture, level at this time in history..."
"HOWEVER"
And then he goes on to talk about society in a SECULAR/SCIENTIFIC (macro vs. micro) way.
RTFLOL!!!!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 423
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:35 pm: |
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TWO TYLENOLS WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT.... OOOhhh, SHIT... LMBAO!!!!!!!
Okay... I'll leave y'all alone... I've had enough fun for today....
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2665
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
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still doing your own self-serving interpeting, caught in the bind of your personal judgments. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 424
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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Cynnique: "still doing your own self-serving interpeting..."
Tonya:
Uh-Uh -- I'm getting ghost... cus I'm to deeeeep for y'all bitches!...LOL!!!!
Can't get up!!!!
Okay... that's enough... I'm getting to close to passing out....LMBAO!!!!!!!
Tonya
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 679
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:04 pm: |
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Tonya,
If you were to read anything about Dell, you would know he is a Christian. His sprituality....his MORALITY....his inner conviction absent of physical proof....his principles of right and wrong as they govern his general and sexual behavior....dictate that it's acceptable to have an intimate relationship with a woman that does not share the same racial backround. As he has explained clearly, the morality of his relationship and the social implications of his relationship, are two totally different things. You're twisting his intentions to fit your agenda--and you're not deep--just struggling to dig deep to find something that's not there. However, I understand you have ulterior motives....that are so transparent.
Get a new gig.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 425
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:05 pm: |
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Okay!.. one more laugh!.. how do you interpret his/the context???
Please answer.... I need one more laugh. Oooh, shit... I'm already startin up again...LOL!... That's okay -- You don't have to answer.... RTFLOL!!!!!
Tonya |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 680
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:07 pm: |
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CYNIQUE to Tonya:
"caught in the bind of your own personal judgements."
MOONSIGNS:
Exactly! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 426
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:08 pm: |
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YOU DIT IT ANYWAY..... AAAAHHHHH!!!!!!! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 427
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:12 pm: |
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By the way, I'm a Christian, too. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2666
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:14 pm: |
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Nothing worse than a fool who doesn't know she's a fool, as in the case of our pseudo-intellectual "tonya." |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 681
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:20 pm: |
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TONYA:
"By the way, I'm a Chrisitan, too."
MOONSIGNS:
So what. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 428
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:21 pm: |
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What happened to the substance??? Come again??? |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 682
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:22 pm: |
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Cyniques got it again!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 429
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 01:23 pm: |
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TONYA:
"By the way, I'm a Chrisitan, too."
MOONSIGNS:
So what.
TONYA:
That's my point, dummy!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 430
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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"Cyniques got it again!"
Yeah, but what good is IT when she's applying IT to the wrong person:
MOONSIGNS -- "So what." TONYA -- "That's my point, dummy!"....
So, you know you need to stop!..LOL
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2670
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 02:49 pm: |
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Nobody but a dummy who makes so little sense has to tell what their their point is, tonya. And that would be you, dummy. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 431
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 03:05 pm: |
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So, what's your point??? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2671
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 04:06 pm: |
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You tell me. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 434
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 05:08 pm: |
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Well, let's see.... If you have to explain your own point your a dummy... and if you need to be told what your point is... your.. a.. oooohhhh, I got it, now!....
LMBAO!!!!!
Thanks, dumber.... I got it!
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 435
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 05:19 pm: |
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(CRACKIN MYSELF THE FUCK UP!!!)....LOL!!!! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 436
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 07:04 pm: |
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Also, why make your own point when you have enough dummies to make them for you:
MOONSIGNS:
So what.
TONYA:
That's my point, dummy!
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Y'all are just too much fun!
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2674
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 10:46 pm: |
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Good grief! Sombody get the can of Raid so we can be rid of this tonya pest. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 684
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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Now now, Cynique, let's be gentle--Tonya's just "getting it". Cause' you know and I know, it's never been that serious.
Who's the dummy?
*teehee*
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 446
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 02:34 pm: |
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Those who go around saying "it ain't serious" usually mean serious business, so remind me to keep my distance from you, shorty. (LOL, but really mean it)....
CALL ME PARANOID.
Tonya |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 686
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 02:52 pm: |
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Paranoid,
Here's a reminder: Keep your distance!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 453
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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I'm not known for taking much, but that was well-taken... and well said, too.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 688
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 09:35 pm: |
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Awe. A sliver of humility. How sweet.
Btw, "shorty" is (somewhat) a term of endearment. Come on, admit it, you like me.
Hey, I have to milk this shyt for all it's worth.
*sigh*
O.k.--playtimes over--let's go back to being mean ....Grrrrrrr.
*teehee*
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 459
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 12:16 am: |
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HAHA!!! It was fun while it lasted -- Now back up and don't get none on me.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 576
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 02:45 am: |
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Dear Moonsigns---
I don't know where you EVER got the idea that I believe that interracial relationships are "ammoral".
My parents were an IR relationship.
And Tonya's beliefs DO NOT represent mines.
SMH
I agree with Del Hines 100% and I appreciate his candor, regardless of who he married.
And allow me to quote myself from an interview, so the record is straight about what I believe:
SOURCE: Nathan Lewis interviews Kola Boof, 2002
http://www.nathanielturner.com/boofsurrenders.htm
_________________________
Interracial Dating
Kola Boof:
I'm all for it. I lived with a white man for several years, myself, when I was very young. Truly, I don't think that "interracial love" is really at issue, because that is a natural love that has always existed in the world. But I still maintain that what we see in America is an epidemic of Black self-hatred rather than love between two equals. The playing field is not equal here.
In my homeland as well, the Black people believe in Arab superiority. They believe that light-skinned people are more human, more loved by God. You see the once mighty Nubian King trying to pass for Arab or claiming to have a drop of Arab blood, disowning his own Black relatives. This sickness is in Africans all over the planet, the Europeans and the Arabs infected us with it, and now we must cure ourselves so that God can love us with his eyes opened wide instead of closed.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 577
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 02:50 am: |
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And furthermore....
in all our many Heated Arguments on this issue, MOONSIGNS...you have such a personal stake (which I don't blame you)....that you don't GET what I've been saying at all.
And many people like yourself and Babygirl are so WOUND UP to defend/protect and promote IR relationships....that you ignore what people like me---and DEL HINES, both of who are the PRODUCT of IR and have been in them....are saying.
I'm not against it.
I'm questioning why there's an unnatural epidemic of it in the BLACK COMMUNITY.
And I disparage people like you and Babygirl who try to paint it as "true love" and people are just doing what comes natural---all that bullshit.
There are sociological factors involved here.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 105
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 01:17 pm: |
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Kola, you explained what we were all thinking, but, for whatever reason, we got caught up on arguing about a lot of other stuff. Which is just as well, I suppose, since you said it so much more eloquently than we probably would have anyways.
And what you said about the Nubian King was especially interesting. I seriously thought that only Blacks in the Americas had that problem. But, like I've said before, it says a lot about what's going on in society and what's going on in ourselves when the POSSIBLE whiteness in a person is praised over the OBVIOUS blackness. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 588
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 01:21 pm: |
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Hi Renata.
If you read CHAPTER 2 of my autobiography, "Bint Il Nil"----you will get quite a bit of info about colorism in North Africa and my White father's bitter reaction againt it. Scroll past "Naima", which is Chapter 1.
http://doorofkush.50megs.com/photo2.html
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 04:01 pm: |
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I read it. That's terrible that your mother lost so many children. My heart really aches for her. I'm wondering if perhaps that's why she didn't speak so much. Nothing has ever happened to me like that or even similar, but I imagine that it's difficult to sing or tell jokes to your child, when inside you're crying for six more children. How horrible. Maybe she didn't speak to you often only because you reminded her of the ones she lost.
I don't know.
I'm sorry, I ramble a lot. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 487
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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Tonya's beliefs are that (SOME) interracial unions ARE immoral... but Tonya uses the word "immoral" correctly. NOWHERE in the dictionary is religion tied to that word. It simply means: CHOOSING RIGHT FROM WRONG. Some may use it in a religious sense, but, compared to those (Americans) who don't, only a very few people do that. And, I still declare that Dells, himself, was using the word in a SECULAR context.
I'M NOT STATING (NOR HAVE I EVER STATED IN ANY WAY) THAT INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES/UNIONS ARE WRONG RELIGIOUSLY; AND I HAVE NO COMMENT ON WHETHER OR NOT IT'S RIGHT IN THE EYES OF GOD -- I'D NEVER SPEAK FOR GOD, MINE OR YOURS. AS FAR AS RELIGION IS CONCERNED, HONESTLY, I WOULDN'T GIVE A SHIT IF IT WASN'T RIGHT, OR IF IT WAS. AFTER ALL, MOST RELIGIONS TEACH THAT BEING GAY AND GAY MARRIAGES ARE SINS. SOME EVEN SUGGEST THAT BLACKS ARE INFERIOR, SO MY BELIEFS ON INTERRACIAL UNIONS/MARRIAGES HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.
I'M NOT A ZEALOT NOR AM I AN EXTREMIST.
And those are my beliefs.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 490
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 05:02 pm: |
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By the way, those who INSIST on HIJACKING the word for religious purposes, are more likely to preach and believe that ALLLL intterracial unions/marriages are morraly wrong IN EVERY WAY.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 491
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 05:03 pm: |
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My bad - "morally" |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 702
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:17 am: |
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Kola,
Hopefully, later today, I will have time to reply. I will be back--I haven't forgoteen (trust me).
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 703
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:35 pm: |
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Kola,
I'm not ignoring what you or Dell Hines have to say. I have always felt (and stated) that not everyone thinks alike regarding such issues. However, what I won't accept is that ALL interracial unions are birthed from ill, sociological factors or that such unions negatively impact our society. I won't accept that it's an "unnatural epidemic" within the Black community. If you're truly not against it, you would never use the word "unnatural".
What is an epidemic is the number of children that are born into single parent homes--now that's an epidemic! I think interracial unions would not get so much attention if (a majority of) the men who are producing these children could be accounted for and commit to the families they create. The number of Black men marrying "out" would be viewed as they truly are--very small. Instead, because there are TRUE negative, sociolgical factors in motion (out-of-wedlock birth, men on the DL, and high incarceration rates) people become fixated on something that is not even an issue.
MY OPINION....In Dell Hines case, I think he truly has an open mind regarding interracial relationships (obviously). However, I think once he got older, expereinced some things, he proably encountered people who fixated on him being a "good Black man" that "got away"--and, when all is said and done, I don't think that he could handle that pressure.
Kola, I know you say that men who enter interracial unions (for the most part) are colorstruck and insecure. I have to disagree. I think ANYONE that enters into an interracial union must be very self-aware and secure. People can attempt to make you question your decision because it makes THEM uncomfortable. However, an individual who IS self-aware and secure and chooses to be in an interracial unions will have the courage/intelligence to tell others outside their relationship to mind their own business. To me, Dell has buckled under all the pressure he's experienced (especially because he's successful). He doesn't know how to balance his racial identity and his relational identity. I think that's weak, especially because he's produced children. Nothing more, nothing less. Like I said before, I'm glad he's not my man....and I pray my male children are stronger than that.
As you have shared, you were rejected by your family (of all people). That would crush anyone. Maybe, had you not been rejected, you would have a different view.
Kola, we should all have a personal stake in things that impact our world--our life. I'm by no means defending/protecting or promoting IR unions. What I am defending is the idea that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. I can't negate your experiences, however, you can't negate mine, either. You, by all means, sitting on "the ranch" all by yourself, don't know all interracial couplings in the world. If you don't like stereotypes about Black women and (sincerely) care for all people, you'd refuse to embrace the negative stereotypes about other groups of people.
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Th_ethiopian
Regular Poster
Username: Th_ethiopian
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 03:07 pm: |
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^^^^^^ oh stfu..........just be glad your obese fat ass found a mandingo.
mooni's childhood memories....
Mooni's mom : " MOONI take it easy on the pudding.......if u keep it up u will end up marrying tyrone from the block." "You dont want that do u"?
MOONI replies: " No mommy dearest, i promise it wont happen again"
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