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AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » Culture, Race & Economy - Archive 2005 » Kanye's Comments « Previous Next »

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Arioso_hum
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Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 11:21 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I heard it, I knew they were going to sut him down. I heard it live in Indianapolis! My wife even asked if I had just heard what he said.

Yeah, I heard it and even more so I felt it. I have always sensed something crazy about Kanye. Now I know what it is...he's real. He is not perfect but he is real. His conscience nor his conscious would allow him to say anything but what he felt.

Now he stands to lose a lot. They are calling for a boycott of his music. How soon will it be that his songs will taken out of rotation? Keep an eye out for his videos on MTV or BET.

Does this make him crazy? Nope. At least I don't think so. Many of us have sat amongst our friends and family and mutted the same thing in one way or the other? This will be recognized as one of the greatest natural disasters that has hit North America, yet the mobilization for help has been criticized as being a unmotivated shuffle.

Why is that? There are a myriad of answers that come to mind, but very few that strike a cord. Race is not a tune that the government wants to hear. Not now, not ever again! It makes them uncomfortable even when facing the facts.

Kanye West chose to voice his opinion through an enormous venue. He chose to excercise a right that does not exist without ramifictions. Freedom of Speech also allows the freedom to persecute if you say something that people do not want to hear.

Was right to say what he said?
or maybe a better question is
What were wrong with his comments?


Rondall
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we should support the brother. This is after all America.
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Kola_boof
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Post Number: 488
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 01:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're damned right we should support him!

And for the record---he spoke NOTHING but the truth.

What in the fuck is wrong with these people?

I've noticed it myself.

You tell the truth....they look at you like you're speaking in Russian.

The Los Angeles Times has done a story attacking NBC for censoring his comments----and the actor Colin Farrell and Susan Sarandon have both said that they agreed with Kanye's comments.

I personally could give a shit what White People think and this is the time for all "Black People"---worldwide----to EXPOUND on our support for this rare black man who dared to put out for his OWN PEOPLE for a damned change.

They better leave Kanye the fuck alone! And we better see to it.




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Kola_boof
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Post Number: 490
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 01:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones
bash BUSH in their CD released today.
I took this from the Chicago Sun Times:

The much-debated "Sweet Neo Con" is the only thing that's really new: the most overtly political song ever from a band that has hardly ever gotten specific about politics during a four-decade career.

Mick Jagger takes dead aim at President Bush, and he scores a bull's eye: "You ride around your white castle on your little white horse / You lie to your people, and blame it on your war, of course / You call yourself a Christian, I call you a hypocrite / You call yourself a patriot, well I think you're full of s---."





Why are their commentary in a Radio Single OK, but not Kanye's quiet outspokenness?




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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 04:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kanye West and all the other outraged black spokesmen can go ballistic, and all the bleeding heart liberals can wax supreme and all the far-removed white people can feel sorry for those poor black victims, and all the politicians and department heads can point fingers and skewer scape goats, but in the big picture, none of it really matters. The teflon George Bush, who has nothing to lose since he's not running for office again, still holds the winning cards. He along with his cadre of neo-conservatives are about to makes appointees that will affect the complexion and direction of America for the next 50 years, when they nominate and push through their 2 candidates for the Supreme Court openings. All of the hurricanes in the world will not change that fact. Not only that, the Katrina tragedy is now in the hands the white power structure who will belatedly mobilize its resources and repair not only the damage to the land but to America's image, and mayber even use the experience as a practice should a future terrorist attack occur. Of course this is a terrible tragedy but it is also a great news story and the media has turned it into a disaster movie, when actually, like 911, it is an isolated event in the vast country of America, and the rest of the population has not been drastically affected by it. And while everyone is wringing their hands and performing good deeds, the insidious Right-Wingers will slowly but surely be laying the judicial ground work for compromising the personal freedoms of American citizens. That may not be a tragedy, but it is a calamity.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 05:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're right, the Supreme Court appointments ALONE are going to be the nail in our coffin.

The ultimate victory for Bush that can't be undone.

We're in big trouble. Forever.


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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 07:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not disagreeing with the message -- I'm saying:

FUCK THE MESSANGER.

It's NEVER been a secret that Bush doesn't care about black people, hell, we kneeew this shit before his ass even took office. Yes, this disaster made me furious with Bush and white people, but it has also made me point fingers at black folks as well. Consequently, I say fuck the messanger because when I see the messanger throw his anger and "support" behind black people, it does nothing except remind me of the folks who go around claiming to love, care, and respect black people. It sounds good and I've heard it many times, but I'm at the point where the rhetoric is becoming a bore and the talk is beyond fucking cheap. In veiw of this, the question is not whether Bush cares about black people; because, for me, the question should be do Kanye West and others care about black people -- the message is clear -- it's the messangers that remain to be seen.

Just as important, I think it's waaaay past time for us to realize that white people (in general) don't give a FUCK about us. If this disaster proved anything, it's that they don't see us anymore than they do stray dogs, cats, and wild animals. After knowing all this, why are we wasting time trying to get them to understand something that they UNDOUBTEDLY comprehend better than us.

Kanye would've been better off saying that "black people don't care about black people" because (a) it's true and as a people, we would be much better served if we tried starting from there (b) white folks could care less about Bush's "I don't give a fuck" actions towards us ( except, of course, for political gain -- and trus me -- the're going to exploit that shit with or without us) and finally (C) it's silly for us to prerend that we're shocked at Bush, because, lawd knows, that bastard gave us his ass to kiss three hours after he took office.

SO FUCK BUSH AND THE FUCKIN MESSANGER!

Tonya
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 07:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya, you're right when you say that "Black people" don't care about Blacks...and probably not anymore than Bush does.

But with regard to KANYE....I don't see how we can expect to produce a "new son" if we don't Black males who begin to set alternative examples in public for them.

KANYE is not even 30, Tonya.

Yet I've been listening to what he has to say on his CD....and I have to say....that in comparison to the VAST MAJORITY of Black Male Goblins who set the style right now.....he IS a breath of fresh air and is pointed in the right direction.

Little black boys DO NOT give a shit about the examples and messages set forth by Black women like yourself----they watch and are influenced by men like Kanye.

By no means is Kanye perfect or EVERYTHING we need in order to save our people.

But he does say publicly that "Black people need to stick together!"......and on his new CD, he does point out that White Women and Latina Women throwing themselves at him can't compete with the black women he counts as his standard-bearers....the exact lyric is "I look to my own reflection in the mirror" as Brandy sings behind him.

It's a START.

No other Black man is giving this message (Obama Barak says "class"--not race--- is responsible for the New Orleans problem)...and Kanye is YOUNG and he is on top. His MESSAGE encourages other Black males who feel the same way to stop being quiet about it and presents an IDEAL for them that better serves them and our people...as a people.

I don't give a shit what White people think, feel, etc. NOTHING I do is for White people---just read my books to find that out.

And there are very very few Black men that I believe in today----but KANYE is creating an atmosphere where the WORD being layed down about "blackness" by people like Kola Boof, Lauryn Hill can be listened to...by Black Males.

****

Maybe I'm wrong, because I really don't a lot about Kanye West to be honest (please don't let him do something to prove me wrong....but I like the direction and vibe he's presenting right now.




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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 10:01 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hear what you're saying, Kola, but my point is that he's not practicing what he's preaching and he's not doing anything new.

First of all, the women he's with is neither his nor his mother's "REFLECTION."

And secondly, what he is *SHOWING* young people is waaaaay more influintial than anything they hear from him or his CD's.

IMAGE IS EVERYTHING.

And the IMAGE that he's SHOWING black men and women is the same one they've been shown since slavery: DON'T DATE WHITE -- JUST DATE LIGHT.

He's big-upping the lightskinned sistahs....

WHAT'S NEW???

I will admit that I haven't heard any of his CDs and that the only info I have on him is what you've been supplying; yet, it has been plain for me to see that he is not doing anything that has not already been done. He's *SHOWING* the brothas and sistahs that to leave "the light-skinned honeys" would be an embarrassment and a disgrace. He's sending the *SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE* that there is no need to date "white" when you have the more "exotic" blackened version at your disposal.

So Again -- Kola, I hear what you're saying and yes, he may be a wonderful artist -- but from what I've seen and heard of him , he's just recycling the same tired ass colorist message from the 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s and beyond.

AIN'T NOTHIN NEW.


Tonya



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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 11:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BTW, Kola -- was I deleted/censored because of the comments I made about Kanye and the president? Tell me it ain't so.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 11:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My bad. It's still there.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 01:28 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

TONYA, you really don't EVER have to worry about me deleting your posts.

This entire BOARD is owned by TROY JOHNSON, who has the power to delete and ban any posters he wants.

THUMPER and LINDA also have the power to delete posters.

"I" was banned for a whole year all together by Thumper.....the controversy of which resulted in me being offered and---out of spite, accepting---my very own board THE KOOL ROOM.

Babygirl has also accused me of deleting her posts, but I did no such thing. I have no idea what happened to her posts.

The people I have deleted have been:

(1) The Cigarette commercial people
(2) The Arab/Somali/Ethiopian "We hate Kola" contingency.

And "Anonymous" the High Yellow girl who popped up to start a fight.







LASTLY,

I have to say that after listening to Kanye's CD and to comments by him (for instance, he says that he uses "Brandy" so much in his work because he a had crush on "Moesha" growing up---and that his dream wife would be Lauryn Hill, who he's also been begging to work with him)....I'm not too quick to describe him as you have.

Especially since I saw a photo of him at an Awards show from a few years back with a date who looked like them.

I could be wrong--time will tell.

But I do like his current girlfriend, Brooke, and I think she's really cute. They're BOTH darker than this photo in real life, but I don't think it's an issue with him (or if it is, he's very aware of it and seems to be exploring himself) and I just really like her. I think they look good together.

Kanye and GF




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Nels
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 02:27 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Regarding Kanye, he's still immature, green behind the ears, and to me - not even worth mentioning right now. With his previous tirades over being snubbed in a major music awards show and the like, he’s shown his thin skin - a sign that he won’t be considered to be a serious “major player” anymore, or at least not in the near future. At his success level, knee-jerking will get you nothing but a free ticket to the next Leper’s ball. On top of that, his latest gaffe will cost him in the highest of the (media, political and social power structures and) inner circles, much more than had it been a white person making a reverse type of gripe or allegation. He may well become marginalized and rendered ineffective by his inability to articulate his message with precision and tact, which is what is required to get people to really listen to your message and support your cause.

Regarding the two Supreme Court openings, don't sweat it. World opinion is about to put ol' George in check. Also, a significant portion of Black America has just been unceremoniously relocated to the rest of the country, permanently ingrained in the fabric of the melting pot. Many of them will never return to the Deep South. Additionally, New Orleans may end up becoming nothing more than a mere shell of its former self, beleaguered by the mass exodus of its black power base, and cheapened by a cadre of gimmicky attractions yearning for would-be big spenders who now would rather spend their time watching Beanie and Cecil reruns.

On the flip side, one caveat - Gentrification. New Orleans could also become a shining star, absent of its poor and predominantly black masses. Imagine, only a hand full of its former residents returning. Levies rebuilt with the latest technology, emergency escape built into a whole new infrastructure (e.g., every house equipped with row boat rigs, GPS, etc.), entire tracts of razed dilapidated homes now spawning a new foundation for condos, trendy digs - an oasis by the sea, it would be. This, my friends, is in the back of the minds of the long-term strategic thinkers and planners.

As soon as enough of the former constituency defaults and abandons their residential and property rights claims, the insurance companies, speculative mortgage holders and other investors will come in and strategically align entire sub-divisions of once occupied urban land, and farm those tracts and parcels off to a long line of eager corporate and high-end buyers. Far fetched, maybe - but maybe another Miami (Beach) over time, and (maybe not even) a long time at that. With all the money that’s been lost by banks, mortgage companies, investors and the like, somebody’s going to want to get their money back. Remember, you’re talking about one city that currently has approximately sixteen Marriott hotels. And just think; how often does the government get an opportunity to order an entire major city evacuated? Who knows, maybe that’s why FEMA showed up late in the first place. Yup.

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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 03:28 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, no biggie -- I thought my comments about the president got me in trouble (smile). I guess I was just being a little paranoid.

As far as Brandy, Lauren Hill and people like Angela Bassett Are concerned (this may surprise you) but I don't consider them dark-skinned and, besides Brandy, these women are not in any way authentic looking. Kanya's mother is what I consider both dark-skinned and somewhat authentic looking. For those reasons, Kenya's affection for Lauren, Brandy, (or Angela for that matter) means absoluteky nothing to me.

Also, it's not only the complexion of his girlfriend that's questionable -- her features are completely non-authentic. I agree with you that they look good together and I do not doubt that she (Brook) is a very likable person. But absolutely none of this have anything to do with my point. If he goes around praising dark skin then he need to put his money where his mouth is or shut the fuck up. Talk is cheap -- that's all I'm saying. And Frankly, it's more insulting if he knows it's wrong, yet continues to do it. At least the ignorant ones have an excuse.

Look -- I'm sure he's nice, I'm sure she's nice -- they are both cute -- but almost all of the women that these color-struct stars date are drop-dead gogeous and many of them are cute, likable/nice. My only concern is that we start recognizing that just as many dark-skinned and/or authenticly looking females are just as gorgeous, cute, likable, and as nice.

And Kola, It's not me that I'm concerned about because I can care less about Kanye or the rest of them. My only hope is that ALLLL young black women get the chance to DREAM about being with someone like Kanye. DREAM, Kola, these young women can't even DREAM -- that's fucked up.

I'm sure you have good reasons for appreciating Kanye West and I totally respect that. But this is going to be one of those occasions where you and I will disagree. For me, it's all or none -- there is no middle or gray area when it comes to colorism becuase the feild is nowhere near leveled -- until then I'm going to be a stone cold bitch about the subject because I WANT MY GIRLS TO DREAM -- just like anyone else.

Thank god I was born a bitch.


Tonya

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Anunaki3600
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 03:38 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nels, I agree with you 100%. This situation has provided developers with their greatedt opportunity to make New Orleans into a upper-middle class city. Reverse the demographics from 68% Black city into something totally different. One thing I know for sure is that New Orleans will never be the same without it's former characteristics. Who will play Jazz, Blues, etc?? Who will do all the service jobs??
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Blkmalereading
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 04:38 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also feel that this would be a great 'opportunity' for the developers to come in and now claim New Orleans. In fact, it's one of the last standing waterfront communities that hasn't been taken over by gentrification. Now it can be. So they can 'ship' in the former culture that made it. It can be another Miami Beach, they simply removed the old (older) residents from Miami Beach, raised the rents, built a few night clubs, a few exclusive areas with private entrances to their own little island, invite the rich stars to buy there...and viola!! A brand new city that is already world known, but can now attract the rich and famous, and no one misses the 'regular' folks who use to live, work and walk around Miami Beach. No one even remembers that time.

Now I agree that while we are caught up in the New Orleans drama, the REAL and probably most important thing going on will be Bush being able to assign TWO surpreme court judges! TWO!! Civil and Human rights as we know it now is forever gone. The religious right has won!

I hope that we don't abandon Kanye. I agree that he is certainly one of the rare young Black men, especially in the hip hop generation who is saying anything about anything! I hope KRS-1 or Chuck D. takes this young man under their wings. He's proving himself in slow steps. He's talked out about the diamond industry, homophobia and now this. He's young and if we don't let him down, maybe he'll continue and influence a few people. I'm hopeful that the gangster, pimp cup drinking kind of rap will have some kind of balance to it, some other competition, the kids have something else to listen to and choose from. The Neo-soul movement has shown the industry that folks want something different.

Is Farrakhan acceptable?
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Arioso_hum
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 11:48 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As tempted as I have been at times...I do not delete post. Nor ban posters...(so far)

This posting is about Kanye's freedom of speech. Everything about this discussion board is about everyone's freedom of speech.

There are times that things get so indignant that we have to question ourselves about deleting anything. However, things will normally correct themselves.

The are over 3,000,000 words in the English language. Of these, about 200,000 words are in common use today. An educated person has a vocabulary of about 20,000 words and uses about 2,000 in a week's conversation. Feel free to express yourself using any of these words that are most pertinent to your opinions.


Rondall
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya, you crack me up.

I'm glad you're there and I hope you have children.



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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I keep hearing excuses about this guy (Kanye) being young. How old do you have to be to unerstand colorism. I say: if you can understand racism your ass can understand colorism too. We keep giving these people - especially black men - excuses. How old is Kanye anyway -- he looks like he's in his mid to late 20s. If he's in his late 20s, he and I are about the same age. I completely understood colorism by my early 20s, which was exactly the same time that I aquired a complete understanding of racism. So, if that mutha fucker can stand up there and complain about Bush and racism, trust me -- that pussy knows just as much about colorism. There is absolutely no excuse -- we're tired of excuses.

Tonya
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blackmalereading!---Hi boo.

I definitely won't be abandoning Kanye. My entire family on both coasts loves him loves him.

Farrakhan is like Kola Boof. You have to pick and choose which issues you agree with him on...and decide....just how ferociously you want that issue fought for. I feel in some ways that Farrakhan is like a father to me/in other ways, I can't stand him.

Unlike my idol Malcolm X....Farrakhan puts his religion----"as a financial institution"---before "the people" and that's what I don't like.

Malcolm insisted that the religion SERVE the people, otherwise, he would dump that institution (which is what religions are, institutions). Malcolm, whatever his flaws were, was FOR THE PEOPLE and died for them.

And when Malcolm came to Africa (including my country)---he brought PURE LOVE to the African people. No bullshit, no gimmicks, no fundraising---just the message of "black humanity" and Negritude. He was the truest "King" we've had since Marcus Garvey. As much as I appreciate some of Farrakhan's wonders--he's not in their league.

Hi Rondall!

I thought I would NEVER EVER be moved to delete posts.

But after my deceased mother became the topic of so many despotic posts by the Somali/Ethiopian contingency, it was a no-brainer. The pain alone made me annihilate them.

The Quit Smoking commercials were deleted only when they became Multiple Threads.

And of course, miss "Anonymous" blew onto the board to show me who was Queen. So I showed her.

Her "THREAD" by the way was not deleted or removed.


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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 02:02 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola???

"I'm glad you're there and I hope you have children."

Glad I'm where? I have to admit that I'm extremely dense sometimes, so that went right over my head (chuckling).

And, no, I don't have any children -- don't have the patience.

Tonya

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Arioso_hum
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 02:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

Uuuummm, would that patience pertain to the joys of making them or raising them?



Rondall
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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 02:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HAHA!!!

It would be the latter, Rondall. I'm sure you agree that the former pertains to nothing but pure satisfaction -- joy!!!

Tonya
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 02:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

This is what frustrates me SO MUCH about women with your views.

If you don't have children---the world is never going to change.

Women RULE and SHAPE the world through their children.

A GREAT MAJORITY of the "colorism" you see today---is the RESULT of "BLACK WOMEN" passing their self-hatred and self-doubt into their children.

It can't be reversed if the ones with your "knowledge" aren't making NEW CHILDREN.

That's why I remind POWERLESS black women that their loyalty is to their womb, not to black men.

IF NOTHING ELSE---have babies.

But, of course, having babies is USELESS if the mothers are dumb, weak and lack vision.

Through our children...we live forever.

And I do not believe that Kanye West is Colorstruck------and GOD KNOWS I'm the quickest person to accuse a Black man of it----but there's quite a bit of evidence that he's NOT.


Kanye


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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 03:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok. Kola. I'm gonna go with your veiws on Kanya. If you say he's not color-struct I'll go with that. But if he turns out to be color-struct, I'm calling your ASS OUT loud and clear. I'm lettin you know that right now -- alright?

IF HE TURNS UP COLORIST -- ALL BETS ARE OFF.

Um not playin, Kola!

Now, on to a more serious note:

As far as having kids are concerned, I'm gonna hold out for five more years. I'm 31 now and ever since I was about 16 I planned on waiting until age 36. I still have alot to learn -- it's amazing how I knew that at age 16.

Anyway, I agree with your last post 100% -- for now.

Tonya
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 03:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LMAO!!!

Girl, if he does turn out to be the enemy----I'll be CALLING HIZ ASS OUT while you're calling me OUT. LOL






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Deebaby
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 11:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

TONYA SAYS:

"I keep hearing excuses about this guy (Kanye) being young. How old do you have to be to unerstand colorism. I say: if you can understand racism your ass can understand colorism too. We keep giving these people - especially black men - excuses. How old is Kanye anyway -- he looks like he's in his mid to late 20s. If he's in his late 20s, he and I are about the same age. I completely understood colorism by my early 20s, which was exactly the same time that I aquired a complete understanding of racism. So, if that mutha fucker can stand up there and complain about Bush and racism, trust me -- that pussy knows just as much about colorism. There is absolutely no excuse -- we're tired of excuses."


Tonya,

A picture is worth a thousand words.

She'll fit right in with the other Black celebrities and their wives at the awards shows...*s*

I remember when I was younger, my mother and I made the observation (don't remember what Black award show it was) - of all the Black male musicians, actors, super-athletes shown on camera, only two were with woman who were not lightskinned Black woman - Denzel and Laurence Fishburne.

We were thinking, it's not likely coincidental that they all just happened to hook up with lightkinned woman with all of the Black women in their worlds.

Although we did give them a..."Well at least the woman are Black..."

My mother is a lightskinned Black woman. I'm dark like my father, and my mother never missed an opportunity to provide some truth to counter the lies we're told about ourselves, including in terms of the beauty of Blackness in all aspects.
And hell, I still had some issues when I was very young. I needed to live a little and learn some things for myself and through my own personal experience.

Just the same, in disagreement with Kola - I think the blame is with both Black men AND women who don't instill knowledge, confidence and pride in our children.

Unfortunately, too many don't HAVE it themselves to pass on.

Also, it's so very deeply ingrained in us on a daily basis through the media, public education and any and every other institution in American society--- to hate ourselves and one another.

It's difficult for knowlegeable, committed Black parents to rear children away from Euro-standards and/or setting their own standards in our society.

That's no excuse.

And truth be told, lot of folk, on all levels struggle with what they know and other driving forces and influences in their lives...

i.e., lots of Black male celebrities are well aware of the attacks on Black beauty and still become participants in one way or another.

Kanye's world now is all about "fly" girls as defined by light skin tone, long hair, size five to seven, etc.
(Weaves, contacts, fake boobs - all that crap is okay with the men, it seems.)

(The sisters are beginning to look like aliens or Stepford Wives are something.
Everybody from LaToya Jackson to Wendy Williams to Vivica Fox seem to be after the same dayum look.)


Anyway,

back to Kanye

His music indicates he is an intelligent, sharp and aware young brother.

Not the most eloquent speaker and apparently not convicted (i.e., his diamonds are forever) but conscious...

Alas, so often in our lives there are areas where what we know and what we practice are two different garanimals...
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 01:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deebaby,

I wasn't BLAMING "black women"....as much as I was pointing out that ALL HUMAN CHILDREN receive "acculturation" through their mothers----NOT their fathers.

Black Women, especially in America, have internalized the IDEAL that #1---they're "Americans", not "Africans"----and along with that ideal comes the expectation of what is IDEALLY "American"---flowing Euro hair, etc. The White Supremacist Coda that BW have internalized from slavery until now.

AFRICAN WOMEN, through 500 years of "Colonization" have internalized the same core beliefs and ALSO acculturate their children from the standpoint that White is more Powerful/White is to be TRUSTED (religion,doctor,lawyer)/White symoblizes Beauty....but to a lesser degree, because they have a strong cultural identity (through language,names,tribal history) that makes it impossible for them to completely disconnect from themselves.

IN AFRICA...the Black woman, however, is the victim of a far more BLATANTLY SEXIST culture, and because of that, her Cultural Identity doesn't allow her to fully assert herself or even think of herself as an individual----so she's in the same in the boat as the AA woman, but with a different set of circumstances.

Black women INNOCENTLY "acculturate" black children (and especially BOYS) to choose and value Whiteness over Blackness.

THE MOMENT...that a black child is born (especially a MALE infant).....it becomes obsessed with everything about its mother----from the HAIR on her head, the way that hair is styled....to the things she values/fears most and the things she loathes/avoids most.

Black children watch "Young and the Restless" and the t.v. commercials with their mothers.

The Children acculturate the mother's ideals---through everything she does.

And for MOST of the history since slavery ended----Black women have been "imitating" White Women or some version of a Non-African woman, INDIAN, SPANISH,etc.----INNOCENTLY letting the TELEVISION raise their children, using hot combs or perm kits to achieve Perfect White Woman's Hair Styles...innundating children with terms like "good hair", "black ass", "black ashy self","You're gonna be a heartbreaker when you grow up".....

"walk in the light/the beautiful light"

little black boys NOTICE the way their black mothers are NOT celebrated in the society----and the way their mothers simutaneously imitate the women who ARE celebrated by society.

The Black mother is CONSTANTLY admitting and pointing out that "SHE" is inferior.

Given a photograph of a Black woman in her natural African state---short hair, very dark skin, African features----the BLACK mother is likely to make a "stand offish" comment in front of her children.


bbk

Many so called BLACK mothers don't look anything like the Black Women they ORIGINATED FROM----so out of ignorance, they call themselves "black" while OPENLY denying any connection to the Authentic Black woman....further planting self-hatred by setting up their child to despise its ORIGINS (example: actor Chris Tucker on OPRAH SHOW IN AFRICA special---refusing to utter a word while in Ghana surrounded by pure black women who LOOKED LIKE HIS ANCESTRAL mothers....but suddenly friendly and talkative in ETHIOPIA where he was surrounded by Mixed Race Addis Ababba Ethiopian women---none of whom could speak/understand English!!!). TO HIS EYE---a black woman is supposed to be "mixed", because his single mother and his society ACCULTURATED him to believe so. He feared/rejected Ghanian people, but embraced Ethiopians.

Jada Pinkett, Nia Long and Jill Scott are normal.

Oprah and Denzel's wife are b{the past}--what we're currently UPGRADING from.

IMAN is exotic and desirable---although---we wouldn't want to BE HER when we can be closer to Mariah Carey.

Alek Wek, the most authentic, is abnormal---and is to be avoided---lest we start looking like her again.




70% of Black kids have NO FATHER.

So the Ethiopian saying---"Fathers matter not, Mothers matter a lot".....is crucial in America.

Because Black Women only very recently started OPENLY discussing issues of colorism/self-hate (15 years ago, it was TABOOO to talk about and most BW were in denial about it).....there is predominately DENIAL in our culture regarding self-hate...and on top of it....MOST AAs under the age of 25 don't even know what a Black Woman is SUPPOSED to look like (by god's hand---not America's).

MOST BLACK FEMALES....not the feminists like me or the women who come here....but MOST Black Females are "Male-Identified".

They see the Black Struggle as...."Injustice against the Black Man"...."The Black Man's burden"..."the INVISIBLE The Black Man"...."The Black Man" this and the "Black Man" that.

Black women TRADITIONALLY have been the most ardent SEXISTS of all women, defending and lying for black men---making excuses for Black men's refusal to be available to black women and children.

On the other hand....THE BLACK WOMAN has been the designated "scapegoat"---the target of "blame" and ALL black people's self-hatred, and especially the target of Black men's prejudice and color caste system that Black women CO-SIGNED.

By ACCEPTING this position of Dis-honor, Black Women lose the respect of the Black Children who are watching them be degraded and humiliated.

It was BLACK mothers who told their sons for decades, "Don't you bring no black girl up in here." (meaning get a light skinned one, so her grandbabies could have lighter skin, straighter hair).

The ONE DROP RULE made it possible for extremely MIXED women to be classified as "Black" within the Black community.......and these women further destroyed the image of black women by advancing the ideal of "Non-African Beauty", by SUPPORTING and ENCOURAGING Black men's "colorist" attitudes with the mantra that "dark women are just jealous, bitter, evil"....and were idolized and put on pedestals by the dark black women who COVETED and WISHED...to look like these women. With their straightening Combs and "You got Indian hair"----"Black Skinned" women confirmed that they were inferior and did it IN FRONT OF THEIR SONS.

When told about her own identity----THE BLACK WOMAN cursed, "I ain't no African!" and refused to identify with or STUDY her history as an AFRICAN WOMAN--before she came here.

She is called "The Strong Black Woman"....when the truth is....she's WEAK.

Everybody around her dictates to and rules her.

Rap stars call black women "bitches and ho's"-----and Black Women continue to buy their records, watch their videos, support CONSTANT negative slurs against Black women.

She is "male-identified", so there can be MOVEMENT for her....only for the BLACK MAN can she organize, unite and dare to start a movement.

From the moment a black child is born....Black Women begin "training" the child to bond with and value WHITENESS.

The child is placed in the arms of a Black mother who USUALLY has some form of European hairdo/hair texture--even Blond hair.

Without even realizing it, Black women begin to acculturate their children from Birth to TRUST--identify with---VALUE everything that is opposite

of this:


black

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Yvettep
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 03:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Sorry to be off-topic...) Question for Kola, anyone else: Do you knmow of any African or Black -owned/-operated producers of Black dolls, especially dark-skinned ones? Any ideas (besides Google, which I have tried) where I might find out such info? Thanks.
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 04:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OPRAH did a whole show on Black women who were creating manufacturing these dolls.

In fact, OPRAH purchased several hundred thousand and sent them to SOUTH AFRICAN children when she was over there.

There's some Black woman in OHIO who has a house FULL of "negroid" female artifacts, including about 2,500 dolls. She gives the dolls away FREE to anyone who can write a letter that touches her heart.

Sorry, Yvette, but I didn't take down any information.



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Blkmalereading
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 05:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)



Other than searching Oprah's website for the above mentioned information, you can try www.matah.com, if they don't have a Black doll manufacturer maybe you can email them and ask their suggestions.

Good luck and let us know when you find out.

Hello Queen Kola, my sister, mother, friend.

Did you guys see the CNN story with the Black guy (Hardy Jackson) who lost his wife in the storm....she said of his wife of 29 years that she was my wife, my best friend, my mother....

So that leads me into this colorist discussion and question. I agree with most of what Kola and others have said about this issue. Women ARE the initial caregivers of children, they gaze in your face far more than they do anyone else's (well, since day care and women returning to work with a few weeks of child birth, this may not be so true). I agree with the image forming.

BUT I also believe that not only are Black women the primary and probably most important teacher of children (with actions far more than words), but they are also STILL teachers of Black men. They are still mothers to their Black mates. Realize it or not. Black men continue to learn the attitudes that their mother, aunts, cousins and TV has shown them, after choosing a Black female mate (who herself has been damaged or not sure about things as Kola pointed out). But women CAN and SHOULD shape society. I always said that IF Black women would stand up and say like Queen Latifah...'Who you calling a Bitch?", MEN would stop doing it!! As pointed out Black women buy the records that put them down, support the artist who are their oppessors.

So how can we change this? Is there something as a Black man that I can do to facilitate things, or is this a woman thing and they have to work that out between themselves?

Next question about the colorist issue: What role does/can lighter hued people play in this equation? I keep hearing the anger and dismissal of Black men who not only marry white but marry lighter than themselves, many of who are not very dark themselves. I hear folks say that they are NOT dating, marrying their reflection: IF the Black woman is all of the things that Kola and others have sugggested then I would say they ARE marrying their reflection. That was my question about Farrakhan, not where he stands on politics or religion but his color. Should he NOT talk for Black people, about Black people. Does his color (as some of these colorism threads have suggested) automatically dismiss him. What role (if any) does the lighter hued African play in this issue of colorism? Is there a role for us?

I must say as a lighter skin Black man, I have NEVER dated anyone merely for their color. I have dated from light brown to very dark. I try to focus on someone who shares my values and that sort of thing which is hard enough to find. What are the choices for a Black man whose choices are Black women who don't love themselves or their culture? Is this not an issue for the male? Is this not an issue for the lighter hued of Black people? Are we just damned?

I've always found it interesting that many of the people who are promoters of and lovers of African people, African culture and looking for a 'new' non-American way to do things...are often lighter skinned people and/or not from America. Hell, if I want to have a group of children who love their African culture and people, who doesn't think that Black women with flowing blood hair, fake nails, tons of makeup are attractive, what are the choices for Black men of ANY hue?

Where are the herds of single, intelligent, culturally conscious, politically aware, book reading, respectful of the bond between a man and woman, those that want to work to build a family and nation, where are those Black women (of ANY hue?). What choices are out there for the Black family in general.

Oh...Congrats Kola and wish you a healthy baby girl!
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 05:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi BlackMaleReading. :-)

Black women KNOW what to do.

They just have to find the COURAGE and be given PERMISSION to do it.

That's what I...as an African woman...am here to do.

Everyone wants to be liked...BUT

I sacrifice having people "like me"---so that an example can be set in front of Black women...that we have to literally ACT UP...TEAR DOWN...DEFY...and start over.

People mistake my sacrifice for being "craziness", "out of control", etc.

I notice that more and more Black women (like Tonya, Yvette, African Queen---only nationwide)...are coming out of the Woodwork now.

We have to GIVE BIRTH....by being willing to Kill.

A Black women's REVOLUTION is coming...for the first time in history.





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Tonya
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 07:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blackreader said:

"Did you guys see the CNN story with the Black guy (Hardy Jackson) who lost his wife in the storm....she said of his wife of 29 years that she was my wife, my best friend, my mother...."

Then he said:

"BUT I also believe that not only are Black women the primary and probably most important teacher of children (with actions far more than words), but they are also STILL teachers of Black men. They are still mothers to their Black mates. Realize it or not. Black men continue to learn the attitudes that their mother, aunts, cousins and TV has shown them, after choosing a Black female mate (who herself has been damaged or not sure about things as Kola pointed out)."

Me:

Regardless of what their upbringing, influences, and associations were, you can't tell me that AVERAGE NORMAL ADULTS don't fully understand right from wrong. There comes a point in each one of our lives where we realize that much of what we learned was just FLAT OUT WRONG. It is at this point that EACH ONE OF US should be held accountable, because ALL OF US (MEN INCLUDED) are COMPLETELY aware that we have the CHOICE to do either what's right, or what's wrong.

NO MORE EXCUSES!

Especailly when it comes to colorism, because black people - more than anyone - know EXACTLY how painful, destructive and WRONG it is.

BTW, Hardy Jackson's wife was mixed/light-skinned. They were married for 29 years, which means he made that CHOICE when he was at least in his twenties -- an adult.

Kola said:

"The ONE DROP RULE made it possible for extremely MIXED women to be classified as "Black" within the Black community.......and these women further destroyed the image of black women by advancing the ideal of "Non-African Beauty", by SUPPORTING and ENCOURAGING Black men's "colorist" attitudes with the mantra that "dark women are just jealous, bitter, evil"....and were idolized and put on pedestals by the dark black women who COVETED and WISHED...to look like these women. With their straightening Combs and "You got Indian hair"----"Black Skinned" women confirmed that they were inferior and did it IN FRONT OF THEIR SONS"

Me:

I agree 100% with ALL you posted to Deebaby and blackreader, but we cannot forget how black women got here in the first place. The paragragh that's quoted does a good job explaining that. It would be sad if we got away from telling the whole story.

Deebaby, I agree 100%.

Tonya
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Yvettep
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 09:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the info! I had forgaotten about the Oprah thing.

I am gathering such info with a few friends who are parents. Soon I will let you know of our next step in trying to promote BLACK images for our kids' playrooms, clothes, tv programming, etc.
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Deebaby
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Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 12:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, I agree with much of what you post regarding Black women's confusion and ignorance.

My heart wants to say

"No, no, no, not all Black women!

and point out exceptions...*s*

but we do that sometimes when we want to avoid some of our deep and/or painful issues or avoid discussing and especially dealing with hardcore realities, don't we?

We do need to face our critical conditions and get to work on some cures for our sicknesses and dis-eases.



Also, you say:

"70% of Black kids have NO FATHER...So the Ethiopian saying---"Fathers matter not, Mothers matter a lot".....is crucial in America."


----Oh my. That saying makes me cringe.

btw, is that 70% of Black children in America?

and

how do we define "no fathers"?

_______________________


Tonya,

I wanted to make the point that grown folk must be responsible and accountable

including evaluating and reavaluating our lives, our beliefs, our behavior, etc.

I agree with you - "no excuses"


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Kola_boof
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Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 12:17 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi DeeBaby,

70% of Black AMERICAN children live in single mother homes----the highest rate in WORLD HISTORY.

African Culture really doesn't allow men to NOT take care of their children unless there's a war or disease wiped all the men out.

If a man abandons his children in Africa---the other men are likely to lynch him.

BUT TAKE NOTE...in most African cultures, the father sometimes is sort of like a "dictator" in the home. He very often has nothing to do with raising his children, especially if there's multiple wives. Many African men have a "meeting" with their individual children once a month.

On the other hand--some African men are intensely involved with raising their children.

MOTHERS usually raise the sons til about 10 or 12 when the FATHER then takes the son with him everywhere and corrupts him.

____________

"NO FATHER" means the father doesn't live in the home...the mother is left to raise the children in the house by herself and the children almost or never see their father.

_________

The Bantu people have a saying: "Boys will love who their mothers tell them to love."



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Deebaby
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Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 08:35 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for clarifying, Kola

I wonder if the statistics regarding Black men who do not live in the home with the children and their mothers take into account the number of fathers who are committed and devoted fathers just the same...although I know that the number of 'fathers' who are truly not 'fathering' are far too high, and that even includes some who are physically present and live with their children.

Certainly and ideally, children would grow and develop with two responsible, loving parents --mother and father-- in the home, yet there are cases wherein Black men/fathers who are physically present are not providing examples of responsible manhood and/or are even negative influences in their children's lives.


REGARDING: "The Bantu people have a saying: "Boys will love who their mothers tell them to love."

That's powerful.

I suppose I agree and disagree.

While I acknowledge the great influence mothers have, we are competing with some very powerful forces, i.e., peer pressure, media, etc.

Nevertheless, as the mother of a teen son, I would like to believe that ulitmately I am a major influence

no, THEE major influence.


Although his father and I are not married and don't live together, I've always kept my son nearby to his Dad, in the same county.

Shoot, when my son became a teen, I packed up and bought us a lil house just blocks from his Dad.

*lol*


He recently completed high school studies here in NY and just began studies at a local college


Whew Chile!

What a journey it's been

and continues to be...


*s*
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A_womon
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 05:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE KANYE WEST! I LOOOOOOOVE HIS MUSIC AND I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE WHAT HE SAID ON NATIONAL TELEVISION ABOUT GOOD OL'GW! IT NEEDED TO BE SAID QUITE A LONG TIME AGO!! HI KANYE!! HOPE YOU STILL HAVE A CAREER BUT IF YOU DON'T YOU STILL DID THE RIGHT THANG BAYBEEEE! HAAAAA! AND NOW WITH THE TREATMENT OF THE HURRICANE VICTIMS--FROM KATIE COURIC CALLING THE BLACKS LOOTERS AND OTHER NEWSPEOPLE CALLING THE WHITES PIRATES--AMONG OTHER THINGS--THE WHOLE WORLD SAW AMERICA WITH ITS DIRTY DRAWS DOWN AND THEY ASS EXPOSED FOR THE RACIST COUNTRY THAT IT WAS IS AND WILL EVER BE!!!

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