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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1095
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:28 pm: | 
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They staged Porgy and Bess here recently--I had visions of burning down the theater, digging up Gershwin and scattering his bones--you know--fantasy sh*t--and just decided I would ignore it.
Would you go to a staging of Porgy and Bess? I wouldn't go if the tickets was free. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2183
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 01:34 pm: |
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Porgy and Bess is a folk opera, a depiction of a time long-since passed; it was also a musical vehicle which launched the careers of people like Paul Robeson and other black artists back in the 30s. You just have to put it in its context. It's like what "Fiddler on the Roof" is to Jews and "Tobacco Road" was to whites. If you were Italian would you be rankled by "The Godfather" movies??? |
Mahoganyanais
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mahoganyanais
Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 01:40 pm: |
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Chris: Would you go to a staging of Porgy and Bess? I wouldn't go if the tickets was free.
Mah: I'm not as familiar with P&B as I probably should be. I know the song, "Summertime", the line, "I loves you, Porgy"--and from bits and pieces I've read, I gather it attempts to romanticize oppression and racism. Is that your issue with it, Chris? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 01:41 pm: |
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Cynique:
Yes. If I was Italian I would not like The Godfather movies, the Sopranos any other so called entertainment that ignored millions of hard working Italians and focused only on the activities of a criminal few.
And that's the truth.
I think if it hadn't been written by whites I might be able to accept it--as I can the dialect poems of Paul Lawrence Dunbar. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2185
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 02:04 pm: |
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Nobody is interested in the ordinary. Audiences like what captivates. That's the essence of Theater. |
Baltimore
Newbie Poster
Username: Baltimore
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 03:30 pm: |
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I agree with Chris- I wouldn't go see it.
I feel the same way about 'The Wire' |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 04:57 pm: |
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Mahogany:
In that it portrays blacks as solely as elemental, simple superstitious creatures with great passions--yoto the exclusion of any other kind, I suppose. Plus my antipathy to musicals period--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess
Most objectionable I guess dat song, "I gots plenty o nuttin' an' nuttin's plenty fo' me--" an emotion I have never heard expressed by any person, living or dead--save those elemental, passionate, lusty, singin' negroes! |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 124
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 05:45 pm: |
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Chris, I remember seeing this musical as a child--my parents took me--and being captivated by it: the beautifal costumes, the catchy tunes, the all Black cast. Then I saw it again as an adult and was HORRIFIED, for the very reasons you mentioned!
I'd find it very hard to attend this musical today. OK-Impossible. Especially when there are many many plays and musicals that I have never gotten a chance to see, that might prove more informative, challenging, entertaining, etc. I have to admit a guilty pleasure: Barbra Streisand. But I have one CD of hers w/a P&B medley: I cringe and hurry to fwd the track so I don't have to hear her articulate so crisply "I LOVEZZZ YOU POR-GEEEEE" in her translation of the Gershwins' translation of po' Black dialect... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2186
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 05:47 pm: |
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I wouldn't go see Porgy & Bess either because I already saw it, and once was enough for me. But I can base my opinion of it on my own experience, instead of pre-conceived notions. Incidentally, Paul Robeson didn't star in this folk opera. I was getting "Porgy and Bess" mixed up with "Show Boat" in which Robeson sang the famous "Ol Man River", a song lamenting how he was "weary and sick of tryin, tired of livin and feared of dyin." |
Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 400
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 09:09 pm: |
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Hello All,
Well, I guess I'm going to be the lone voice out in the wilderness again. I LOVE PORGY AND BESS!! It's my favorite opera. "I luuuvs u Poooorgeeee. Dont let im take me", shoot, my favorite song in the whole thang.
Chris wrote: "Most objectionable I guess dat song, "I gots plenty o nuttin' an' nuttin's plenty fo' me--" an emotion I have never heard expressed by any person, living or dead"
Really? *eyebrow raised* What about all those black folks who made a career out of living on welfare? Are you sure now, Chris? How about all of the black men who lives off of their women, men who aint trying to even look for a job, but hey, they've played all of the levels on their XBox's Halo 2? *eyebrow still up* Yes, we have people now who's doing more than just saying "I gots plenty of nuttin", they're living it!
When its all said and done, we are who we are. We are a multitude. I can accept that. But then again you all know I don't care about political correctness. I love Porgy and Bess. The black characters don't embarrass me in the least. I guess I don't see why its embarrassing you all. *singing Zip ah dee doo dah, Zip ah dee a, my oh my what a wonderful day. Plenty of sunshine heading my way. Zip ah doo dah, zip ah dee a. Oh mister blue bird on my shoulder...* |
Steve_s
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 09:52 pm: |
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I hear you man. The book is by Dubois Heyward with lyrics by Heyward and Ira Gershwin. But Gershwin's musical score is considered one of the finest ever written for the Broadway stage. That's why musicians have always played it and continue to play it: Herbie Hancock's centennial tribute CD "Gershwin's World," Miles Davis and Gil Evans's classic recording (Miles's future wife Frances was performing at the time in the City Center Opera production), John Colrane's Summertime, Nina Simone's breathtaking '60s version of I Loves You Porgy, etc., going all the way back to Louis Armstrong's It Ain't Necessarily So, and many others. (Look at Thumper's post about Oprah on the other board. He even says "that ain't necessarily so." I know I say that myself all the time.) |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 201
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 11:30 pm: |
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Well...I guess this is further proof that the HATE betwixt me and Mr. Clean (aka Bitch With an Eyebrow Tick) is from us possibly being TOO MUCH ALIKE, as more than a few people have suggested.
Anyway.
I love PORGY and BESS, too.
I often sing that song, "I love's you Porgy....don't let them git me and handle me."
What a song.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 12:08 am: |
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Porgy & Bess I believe was based on a book entitled "Catfish Row" whose characters were the prototypes of today's negative stereotypes. But people like them did once exist in the particular corner of the universe known as Catfish Row. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 10:32 am: |
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Thumper:
I ain't embarassed. Well maybe I am. Some white folks have created their false version of what black folks are like and they have--not only black folks buying into it, but paying up their hard earned money to enjoy it.
Contemplate all this the next time you try to rail against 50 Cent or the Gangsta rappers.
I don't know how it is in Indiana, but the majority of people on welfare in Missouri are not your archetypal female baby maker, but women with kids who have lost their jobs, gotten ill, or been left in the lurch by a man after a divorce or after he skedaddled. None of these people are content with their lot and sing "I gots plenty o nuttin'" And a lot of them are white. I guess you buy into the whole notion that all people on welfare or black. Or that all poor people are black.
If this is widespread among black people, maybe we have been getting what we deserved all these years.
This was a sentiment that was promoted by white people like the happy slave syndrome--they are really happy that we got them down and are kicking them in the arse!
I hope you never wind up like a friend of mine who had a brain aneurism a series of strokes and cannot work and who was crying to me yesterday because he is treated like trash because he is on disability when he shows up for the medicines and treatment he needs to live. Let's see if you can sing "I gots plenty o nuttin" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2189
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 01:54 pm: |
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Chris says:
"Contemplate all this the next time you try to rail against 50 Cent or the Gangsta rappers."
Cynique says:
So are you admitting that negative rap lyrics reflecting the gangsta lifestyle are comparable to the degrading dialect in the Porgy & Bess, and that they both belong in the same negative category?
And since your heart bleeds so for all of the unfortunate people on welfare, you might shed a tear for poor ol Ol Porgy who is crippled and has to drag himself around on his knees. And keep in mind that the "Sportin Life" character in this musical was the forerunner of today's pimp-players who you tend to be quite tolerant of. Now, I understand your discomfort with this musical, but your righteous indignation for an inocuous anachrorism that provided a show case for some classic songs that blacks have always been able to capitalize off of, is like the musical itself; over the top. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2192
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 04:01 pm: |
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Meant to spell that "anachronism". Gee, folks, if I didn't know better, I'd think old age was catching up with me after re-reading some of my posts. zzzzzzzzz. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 129
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 04:55 pm: |
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I am frequently amazed at how much the White American viewing/theater-going public loves period pieces. My husband likes to say that they long for "the Good Ole Days...when men were men, women were women, and Blacks were slaves..."
BTW-Has anyone of you, esp in big cities, seen DJ Spooky's remake of "Birth of a Nation"? I am dying to see it--only have seen the clips on his website... |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 130
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 04:57 pm: |
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Cynique-LOL! If poor spelling is a sign of old age then I shoulda been 6 feet under a long time ago! |
Mahoganyanais
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mahoganyanais
Post Number: 185
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 11:33 am: |
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Chris,
Thanks for posting the wikipedia link.
One thing I noted is that production was originally advertised as "an American folk opera." "American" as opposed to "colored" or "Negro." Perhaps because the creators anticipated the overseas tour? Or some other reason?
I know neo-con Debra Dickerson titled her memoir "An American Story", but I'm trying to think of a similar contemporary production (play or film) featuring blacks which is billed as strictly "American."
What's in a name? |
Steve_s
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 08:35 pm: |
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In general, issues of nationality, ethnicity, and influence in music are complex and not straightforward. For instance, Bizet's Carmen is a gypsy, the opera is set in Spain, it contains one Cuban song (Habanera), and the composer was a French Jew. Then about 70 years later, Oscar Hammerstein II shifted the scene from Seville to a southern American town during WWII and preserved the score almost intact from George Bizet's Carmen with an African American cast. What would you "name" that? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2233
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Well, in this case of Carmen (Jones), it is certainly an example of how music transcends race and culture, and how love is the international language. What would I name it? How about a "Cosmopera." You had to ask, didn't you, Steverino! LOL. |
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