| Author | Message | ||
     Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2108 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
That other post was getting tooooo long. So as I was about to say, if any of my detractors can show me one post where I said anything derogatory about dark skin, then bring it on. In fact, people wouldn't even know what my complexion was if Kola hadn't brought it up and just kept harping on it. I have never rejected people on the basis of their skin color. I wasn't raised that way and I'm not that superficial. Articulate intelligent people with good senses of humor are what impress me. That and the ability to not take oneself too seriously. I have always found those who can poke fun at themselves to be very charming because they are usually the ones who have the most going for them, - as opposed to shallow, self-important people. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Color will continue to be a source of disagreement and contention, no matter what progress we as a people will ever make. If it's not color, then it will be religion, if not that, then something else. Kola said, " I was put up for adoption by my Egyptian grandmother---because my skin is dark and people would have realized that she herself is not Turkish Beja, but Arab Black. She couldn't have that." I can understand Kola's hurt. Such rejection could surely warp an individual's sense of self-worth. For me, the interest is when one has endured such a betrayal, and intellectually can see it for the ignorance it is, why would they then even want to continue to perpetuate it, even if it is to the other extreme? Wrong is wrong, no matter which side of your bread you want to butter it on. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2111 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Very true, Baby Girl. Your screen name belies your maturity.  | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2112 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola says: "Cynique is an IDEAL EXAMPLE of a light skinned woman who claims to want "justice" for black people-----but also fights to protect and ensure the SYSTEM of colorism that elevates her in Hierarchy above others who are darker. NOWHERE was this more evident, IMO, than in the novel she wrote. Her colorism was on display and very clear---although I do suspect and believe that she was not aware of her colorism." Cynique responds: "Just get off your high horse, Kola, and get real. You don't know jack about me. You've never met me and never taked to me and no nothing of my personal history. You've tried to format me into your little belief system on the basis of a novel whose focus wasn't about race. You are so subjective in judgments of people that nothing you say carries any weight. The statements you make are presumptuous and untrue. But you obviously derive great comfort from believing as you do. | ||
| Rustang Newbie Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
A quick story.Most people are familiar with the car manufacturer Ferrari.The owner and founder of the company,Enzo Ferrari,was a very difficult man to get along with.A fellow that owned a small tractor manufacturing company bought one of Ferrari's cars and,after driving it for a little while,felt that the clutch did not work properly.He brought the car back and complained to Enzo about it.They argued back and forth for a while and Enzo told "This isn't one of your tractors,you ignorant sod buster!How the hell would you know if the clutch works properly or not!" (in italian,of course)This got the guy real pissed off and he said that he would start building his own cars and when he was finished his cars would be able to outrun Ferrari's cars and that the clutch would work properly in all of his.The guy's name was Ferruccio Lamborghini.His cars would indeed outrun the Ferraris and to this day,before they deliver a car to anyone they have a guy named Balboni take the car out and drive it just as hard as he possibly can for about a hundred miles to make sure that everything(especially the clutch)works as it should. The point of this is simply this.If the rancorous animosity that you ladies(cynique and Kola)are directing at each other motivates you to great accomplishments for our people,then I say have at it. If not,then it might be worth considering a policy of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.I don't have to like someone to be able to work together with them for a common goal.That's just me though.Everybody has to walk their own path the best way they know how to.But I feel like the two of you could accomplish much together. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 142 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
Hundreds of thousands of Black African youth have now internalized degrading MEDIA IMAGES to such a point that they Bleach their skin and take Skin Ligthenting Pills. A famous Ghanian boxer's FACE fell off in the ring---because of all the skin bleaching he was doing in his desperate attempt to become, as he put it, "Mulatto". The MICHAEL JACKSON skin lightening pill, MADE in Belgium and Germany, continues to gross MILLIONS as it sweeps through the hands of ignorant African children who want to be "white"---because whiteness symbolizes Acceptance, Success and HUMANITY. __________________________ In the Palestinian society---BLACK WOMEN have been routinely "sterilized" since the 1950's....to prevent the Palestinian people from returning to their original color. Once again, as with Arabs in Egypt...BLACK CHILDEN are prohibited from even being born. _______________________________________ I was put up for adoption by my Egyptian grandmother---because my skin is dark and people would have realized that she herself is not Turkish Beja, but Arab Black. She couldn't have that. _________________ Each year in EGYPT, White Arab couples are visited by recessive genes that occasionally produce.....a Black child. These children are DROWNED at birth, because they're.....black. __________________________________________ In Sudan right now, millions of people in DARFUR are being "exterminated" and "terrorized".....because they are CHARCOAL colored and are not bastardized like the Black Arabs who are paid by WHITE ARABS to exterminate them. ________________ In the United States, I see the same damned pattern. All the black women in movies MUST BE "mixed"---a black woman is too black to play the leading lady if there's romance or if she's supposed to be "PRetty". Black Men in American overwhelming choose LIGHT SKINNED women as their wives, and when they possible, they walk past those yellow girls for a WHITE GIRL or Non-Black woman. They marry....FOR COLOR. And anyone who can't see that phenomenon is a goddamned FOOOL. This nation is RAMPANT with "colorism" in the Black Community. There have been 500 books written about it by now. It is becoming SO EXTRAVANTLY visible that people can't help but talk about it. ____________ My ENTIRE life's journey as a dark skinned black woman from Africa.....has been ALTERED and SMEARED by the experience of colorism. I don't give a damn how the lightskinned yellow people FEEL about my rage, my anger and my pain. This last year....I had the chance to CHOOSE authors and have them published by my publisher, Door of Kush. The FIRST person I chose, because he's such a good writer and such a wonderful black man....was Chris Hayden. Chris Hayden is VERY VISIBLY high yellow. If I hate lightskinned people so much---then why did I pick this man to edit and publish and to promote??? The truth is....I see Chris as a "Black" man and as my brother. When I "DISCUSS" these issues of colorism and their effects, I am not in any way thinking about real people as much as I am thinking about "Statistics" and the facts of color in society. Acknowledging these facts and relating my own suffering from Colorism does not preclude me from loving and being close to "lightskinned" people. But when they try to prohibit me from speaking out about the ways in which White Supremacy CREATES a caste system and benefits those light skinned people......THEN I became angry and hateful towards them, because I can see that they are trying to protect and preserve the system that benefits them. Cynique is an IDEAL EXAMPLE of a light skinned woman who claims to want "justice" for black people-----but also fights to protect and ensure the SYSTEM of colorism that elevates her in Hierarchy above others who are darker. NOWHERE was this more evident, IMO, than in the novel she wrote. Her colorism was on display and very clear---although I do suspect and believe that she was not aware of her colorism. Her writing certainly wasn't deliberate, with regard to color, it was merely....what she's always KNOWN, what she comes from, what she's used to. Still---she's colorstruck. AND PERHAPS I AM, TOO. I don't deny it. Perhaps I have become so bitter that I now am the very thing that I attack. But I can also honestly say that if I am---then I don't give a fuck. I'm ready to live in a world where blackness is loved, desired and celebrated, and the older I get, the less I care how it's achieved or who has to be eliminated in order for it come to be. That's not right, but maybe that's necessary. ______________ The poster BabyGirl says: Color will continue to be a source of disagreement and contention, no matter what progress we as a people will ever make. If it's not color, then it will be religion, if not that, then something else. KOLA: Which is just another way of a yellow/light person saying----"That's just the way things are". In the face of Black Children being routinely drowned in Egypt.....and not even being allowed to be CONCEIVED in Palestine, and in the face of Black African children ingesting harmful Fade Creams and Pills to become "WHITER" like her----her response is basically, "That's just the way things are." Funny how this comment reminds one of the indifference on the part of WHITES towards racism for so many decades. "That's just the way things are." As if a mother---and ESPECIALLY an African mother---shouldn't do anything about it. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 143 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
TAKE NOTE: Babygirl writes--- Where was the self-hate? A white mother of a biracial CHILD asked Kola to RESPECT that she and her black husband wanted their children to identify with the reality of BOTH their bloodlines. KOLA: (**THAT is NOT what happened. A White Mother, as I explained, at a BIRTHDAY PARTY came flying at me with a snotty retort about her child's being Bi-racial and NOT black, because she was offended that my gift to the child was a stack of Famous Sports Legends...all of whom were black. I GUESS BABYGIRL FAILED TO READ ALL THESE "DETAILS". Said Mother then accused me of deliberately not putting any White Men in the stack and informed me that HER SON is half "white man". ON TOP OF THIS---I was already peeved by my sons complaining that her son constantly look at their beautiful African hair and ask, "Why is your hair like that?" This has occurred enough times for my sons to report it to me---and this child has a father whose hair is AFRICAN, so why hasn't he learned from HIS FATHER and his "conscious" white mother??? This child has seen COUNTLESS black children---why would he be asking such a question??) BABYGIRL SAYS: It wasn't about preferring one over the other but about acknowleding the existence of both. KOLA: (HOW does she know? I live near the woman, not BabyGirl, and the woman is totally REGRETFUL that she has Mixed Children, favors her Whitest looking children and clearly dosn't want her children to identify with "blacks". She says that word "blacks" with a THUD. The stupid black father doesn't even RAISE the children and acts as though he's ashamed to be "black" himself---you all know the type. Holding up his White children as though they're some SHIELD against his blackness and VALIDATION of his "worth" at the same time. A "nigger" to be blunt.) BABYGIRL: Kola has asked others to RESPECT how she wants her children to view themselves. There is no difference in what these two mothers want for their babies. KOLA: That's right. And I don't want my sons exposed to the mixed up, racially ambiguous Bi-racial children who are taking their Black parent's self-hatred one step further now that they can actually look Non-Black. More power to them. But Black Children are TOO GOOD for that. Let me point out that I DO have "mixed race" children in my family who are NOT colorstruck, do not think themselves superior OR inferior and do not fail to praise the black part of them when in the company of blacks---which is what they SHOULD do. LIKENESS is what makes kinship, whether HUMANS want to acknowledge that fact or not. And my sons are too SUPERIOR to be bothered with THOSE White trash half-breed types who can't see the beauty in black people but can CLAIM to be "black" when it's convenient.....and only want black people AROUND so they can have someone to feel BETTER THAN. The TRUTH is the TRUTH. And there it is... | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 144 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yet another EXAMPLE of a light/yellow woman's dismissal of larger issues: ____________ Kola: LIKENESS is what makes kinship, whether HUMANS want to acknowledge that fact or not. Babygirl: I agree. Bottom line, we all bleed red. What greater LIKENESS could there be? _______________ SO is it our RED BLOOD we see while we're dancing in the club??? Is it our RED BLOOD we see while we're watching colorist depictions of black people on movie screens? Talk about a COWARDLY comment. We all BLEED "red" so we're somehow united in kinsip over it???? Since what century??? Does having BLUE BLOOD in our veins solidify us anymore than having BROWN SHIT come from our assholes? What in the hell does having RED BLOOD do to unite people who are bastardized to the point of not looking like and not being able to identify with one another? And why do COWARDLY, Inane YELLOW PEOPLE make stupid comments such as this.....as if IDEALISM overrides reality? Baby Girl might as well have said: "Don't Worry--Be Happy". | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 145 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
Any sane, intelligent person who has READ the last 3 posts I've made... ...can see CLEARLY the reason WHY it does no good to discuss such a profound issue with the likes of two PASSIVE yellow women like Cynique and BabyGirl.....both of whom are ILL EQUIPPED to truly deal with the subject, choosing instead to offer blythe homilies about "that's just the way things are" and "we all bleed red".....as if such Word Band-Aids do a damned thing to address the very real experiences of the dark skinned people who have to live with and live AROUND the issues presented. And that is why, I will NOT discuss it further with these two people and have nothing more to say on the matter. I've made my point/case quite clear.  _________________________ And I say once more: PERHAPS, I KOLA, AM COLORSTRUCK. I don't deny it. Perhaps I have become so bitter that I now am the very thing that I attack. But I can also honestly say that if I am---then I don't give a fuck. I'm ready to live in a world where blackness is loved, desired and celebrated, and the older I get, the less I care how it's achieved or who has to be eliminated in order for it come to be. That's not right, but maybe that's necessary. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Now, see, this is what I find most interesting, Kola. You said about me: "This is just another way of a yellow/light person saying----"That's just the way things are" And you also said, "Yet another EXAMPLE of a light/yellow woman's dismissal of larger issues." Why did you automatically assume, because I questioned your reasoning and thoughts and didn't immediately agree with you that I was "light/yellow"? Most especially when the reality may very well be that not only am I at least four shades DARKER than you, but also that my experiences with race and color have simply just been very DIFFERENT from yours, thus my approach and rationals being different? I questioned your reasoning because I have not had your experiences and wanted to understand them. You immediately felt attacked and went on the defensive instead of just enlightening me and others who may be in the same position as I am. Change comes from those willing to be effective teachers, Kola. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
And if someone would please help me understand this, being as "ill-equipped" as I am. Kola said on another thread, "The issue of color is one that I've been annointed to deal with. As an African mother who has been personally afflicted by it, I don't see how I can't. For so long, blacks have behaved as though they have some MORAL superiority over whites----but this is not the case----and for the sake of our people's future, the demons must be exorsized." I'm sorry Kola, but haven't you been saying all along that BLACKS are superior over everyone who is NON-BLACK? And if this is the case, then aren't they behaving accordingly and isn't this how you would want them to behave, with the confidence of that superiority? And hasn't it been your position that those who don't see it or pander to it are just dismissing the larger issue? | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I don't think it's right to fight colorism by becoming colorstruck. You can't let this thing infect you like that. However, I do understand your feelings, as many, many dark skinned people would, and I also relate to your frustration when people like Cynique and Babygirl fail to see how serious and deep the situation really is. Which is why I don't believe for one minute that Babygirl is 4 shades darker than you or even dark skinned. I've read about 12 posts by her and if she doesn't sound like a biracial sister, I don't know who does. I even suspected she was white with biracial children. But no way is this woman making the comments she's making and has skin darker than yours. You're a beautiful sister, Kola, and I like most of what you have to say. It's been a long time since we heard from a black woman with so much bravery and willingness to look like an ass. Your cause is worthy. Just know that. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 124 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Sorry to post this twice. I just realized the other post was so long and that you all started a new one. So I'll put my two cents over here. Hello Everyone It seems this topic of light vs dark always pops up from time to time on this board causing all the usual in-fighting. It's part of the reason I wrote my first novella, Althea, which deals with the feelings of light-skinned individuals and the treatment they receive from their own race and whites, due to the color of their skin. It's a never ending battle of trying to prove your blackness to those who feel you are a sell-out. Look at these two posts: Kola: I'm sick and tired of the PRIVILEAGE that comes from being a Mulatto---and the fact that they BENEFIT from racism and White Supremacy, yet claim, when it's convenient that they are BLACK. Linda: Many blacks seem to feel this way when asked for their opinion. As far as benefits of prejudice, it is two sided. There is no right or wrong answer as to why it exists still today in 2005. However, it does and though Kola may be brutal in her opinions, there is a truth to much of what she complains about. Society has shown that it does prefer light over dark for many ignorant reasons, (television, employment, etc)but does that mean that the blame should be hoisted upon the shoulders of light-skinned people? Not all light-skinned individuals feel this is a privileage when it drives the wedge of hatre between them and the black race, of which they belong but are not fully accepted. Should they not take jobs and be in videos because darker skinned individuals feel they shouldn't be there? Is it their fault that society has for years decided to tolerate light over dark? Babygirl: What are their PRIVILEGES and BENEFITS? It's my opinion that those of mixed race probably have it harder - too black to be white / too white to be black/ battling not one race for respect, but two. Linda: This is my opinion as well, which I stated in my book. For those light skinned individuals it is a daily task of proving their blackness, whether it be to whites on the job or to their black co-workers who believe they are getting special treatment. However, for an individual who is darker skinned this same arguement can be made that they are often laughed at, talked about, etc. This is why I understand Kola's views, though not necessarily all of them. Perhaps in a perfect world we would all be one shade of black, in the middle of the hue and feel less threathened. We wouldn't be silently praying or conveying to our children that they marry and have children based on color. Since that is not the case we will continue to read, hear and witness these issues of color. For some odd reason, when confronted with issues of color with-in our race we will always need to find an excuse for our problems...one we can't obviousely fix...by doing exactly as we accuse the white man of doing...teaching our children to segregate. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2113 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
I enjoyed your little anecdote, Rustang. But Kola and I don't have simliar goals. She wants to subordinate everyone who doesn't conform to her color chart. She wants to call the shots and to be elevated to a position of supreme authority. She fancies herself as some kind of a warrior queen. There's no way I would pay homage to, or work with this narrow-minded, mentally-unstable woman. If I were still an activist, I would want to strive for an egalitarian society; Kola is so self-absorbed that, like Hitler, she wants to make it better only for those of her stripe and to hell with anybody who doesn't meet her exclusionary requirements. She is an Afro-Centric visionary with tunnel vision. People like her are the reason why I have dropped out of the civil rights extravaganza. I am world-weary and tired of deceitful egomaniacs with self-serving goals. I just try to do what I can to make a difference, one day at a time. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
BabyGirl, excuse me Kola is right. We blacks have claimed that White people are "racist", not us, and that we are Morally Superior, not superior in all aspects mind you, but Morally Superior in that we do not judge or discriminate based on color. I know exactly what she's saying and you continue to try and twist her words. You should come out of your sheep's clothes, because you're not fooling anyone. You're either a biracial girl or a white woman with biracial children and you could care less, as your posts indicate, about the prevalence of what is becoming a growing national debate. If you are a dark skinned black woman, I would ask God help our people, I tell you that, because even in Kola's wrongheadedness and her anger she has a much better idea of what our people and our children need in order to overcome in this society. Neither you or Cynique have given her credit for taking a stand, and I find her arguments far more compelling than either of yours. You're both basically advocating that things stay just as they are. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Linda comes on to write that it's "Harder" being mixed race than being very dark skinned. Where is the evidence of this in our society? You complain about having to prove that you're black enough--but try being totally and completely invisible. When has a white looking black woman been on the verge of suicide because her blue black skin made her a virtual outcast in our community? My experience has been that the lightskinned gals are put right up front in everything. The comments by BabyGirl and Linda are proof of what Kola is saying. Very lightskinned women like yourselves don't perceive a major problem with the society and try to make hollow arguments to derail some very real issues raised by Kola. You sound like White women claiming that Black women don't really have any problems different from theirs. Is Linda claiming that all the lightskinned girls had to stand againt the wall at the local dance because no black boys were interested in them? Is she claiming that a white looking black woman can't find a husband in the black community? It's harder for her in this society than for a very dark skinned woman? Her claims are ludicrous! | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 146 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
Evangelist, THANK YOU. _________________ BLACK PEOPLE....get these books....educate yourselves.      IN SEARCH OF OUR MOTHER'S GARDENS:  | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist, where is it written that if the color of my skin and the color of Kola's skin are identical, then our thoughts and opinions must be as well? If her experiences have formed and validated her opinions, and my experiences which are vastly different have formed and validated opinions totally opposing to hers, why then would I suddenly not be as black as she is, or automatically be thought to be white? And why do you assume I have no understanding of Kola's frustration simply because I have questioned her experiences and her rational? To paraphrase a comment Linda noted, light-skinned individuals endure the daily task of proving their blackness (too white to be black/too black to be white), wherein darker-skinned individuals endure the daily task of just being black. The issues are no different and equally as frustrating. But when these same individuals turn on each other because one perceives the other is benefiting more and these same individuals do exactly what they claim is being done to them, disregarding that we all as a unified people have issues to ovecome, then absolutely nothing is accomplished and nothing will ever be changed. Like Kola, not one of us ever asked for the circumstances of our birth. We did not pick and choose our parents or have the option of deciding how black or not black they could be. If we do not begin to teach our children to love themselves for who they are and each other simply for who they are, no matter what the shade of their skin, then years from now all of our grandchildren and their grandchildren will be having this very same discussion. If my questioning an individual's logic for not even considering to do this means I'm missing the bigger picture and that I'm idealistic, then so be it. There is no denying Kola's beauty or the passion of her convictions. Personally, I don't necessarily agree that all of that explosive energy is being focused in a positive direction. And no matter how worthy her cause, I think if she can't harness some of that drive, stay focused on the paths of truth and honesty, then those who may very well need to hear, learn, and understand her messages, will be the very first ones to dismiss and disregard whatever she had to say. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 125 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist Lets not get it twisted. If you had read my entire post you would see that I agree with a lot of what Kola says. You must have missed this: However, for an individual who is darker skinned this same arguement can be made that they are often laughed at, talked about, etc. This is why I understand Kola's views, though not necessarily all of them. Now, you can call it ludicrous if you want. But if you don't walk in those shoes you don't know what the hell you are talking about. It is hard to be any shade of black in this world, dark or light. This thread is a great example of why we disagree on this topic. According to many and yes, Kola included has said that they would prefer darker skin individuals for television, their childrens marriage, etc. Do you not think a light skinned individual wouldn't want their children to marry black and bring some color back into the line so that these topics which view light skin as a disease could stop. Do you think they don't want to see more of their race on television, on posters, etc. Come on, I'm sure by your response you are one of the ones find fault with the light skin as well. You speak of mediocre issues regarding finding husbands, going to parties. Do you understand the pressure of being the light skinned girl that all the guys might want to marry, have sex with, be seen with but only for the fact that they are liked not loved and that they are nothing more than a arm piece? Are you saying that dark skinned girls don't dance at the parties, have children with guys, get married, have descent jobs. Why is it so inconceiveable that light skinned people don't always get hired, find husbands or have everything that you think they do? What makes darker individuals feel their fight is any more warranted when it comes to being accepted by any race? Is it because they feel they are the only ones with dark enough skin to fit into the race and that one shade too light you're out...not one of us. You all act like people have a choice of color when they are born. It's narrowed minded people like you that make these problems along with the white man. You only wish to segregate and alienate what is not to your liking. You expect any individual unlike yourself to be the one with their foot on your throat. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2114 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Linda certainly knows whereof she speaks because as she has said in the past, she was a victim of reverse discrimination as are many light-skinned people. The problem I have with people like Evangelist and Kola is that they always want to portray themselves as noble, above reproach victims who have been subjected to the prejudices that nobody else has endured. They are never objective, and never acknolwedge the things some darker people do to get even with people of a lighter shade, or how vindictive some darker people can be when they are in control of a situation. K & E want to paint themselves as persecuted martyrs and fault everybody else because they won't apologize for there lighter skin color. They want to lay guilt comlexes on people who had no say in what color their skin is. Well, I ain't havin it. As I said, I would never judge anybody on the color of their skin for the simple reason that I could be denying myself something that would benefit me. I raised my children this way and that's the best I can do. I am well aware of the inequities of society; they have always been there, and apparently people who are tired of being subjected to them, make individual choices to change their appearance or to spare their children from going through what they went through by choosing a mate whose color will ensure that the shade of their children will be different. You can't make people be what they don't want to be. Especially if what they are is subjecting them to discrimination in a color-conscious culture. And especially if they look at the world and see what's happening in Africa. Not pretty, but that's the way it is. Now Kola and Evangelist can go into convulsions if they want to, but just as they reject what I say, I take what they say with a grain of salt. | ||
| Prettybabygirl First Time Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Somebody I think Cynique said that black people like Kola nad characters in a book were "obsessing" over color. Was Martin Luther King and Malcolm X obsessing over race? Maybe because your yellow you dont understand. Evangelist, I agree with you. BabyGirl is not no dark skinned or chocolate woman. She's lying. All you have to do is read all her earlier posts. That chick is skraight lightskinned or mixed. I am peach colored and I fully admitt that I see myself being treated better in Detroit than darker sisters. I see sisters who look white being treated like queens, even the ugliest ones. These broads on here are not being truthful and BabyGirl especially got a lot of nerve. Go Kola | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2115 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
There's a difference between obsessing over color and obsessing about race, prettybabygirl so take your flawed analogy elsewhere. I notice you have the color of your skin narrowed down to a very specific description; you are proably a subconscious colorist yourself. What are you doing to change the situation?? And who do you blame for the situation you describe. The women who are light, or the men who like light women?? Get real, prettybabygirl. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist: I know exactly what she's saying and you continue to try and twist her words. Babygirl: Not at all. I am trying to UNDERSTAND her words and I appreciate your clarification. Evangelist: You should come out of your sheep's clothes, because you're not fooling anyone. You're either a biracial girl or a white woman with biracial children and you could care less. Babygirl: No wool here, brother. My parents were both black, both dark, and both instrumental in teaching me not only to love myself, but also others, no matter what their strengths, deficiences, or COLOR. Evangelist: If you are a dark skinned black woman, I would ask God help our people... Babygirl: We should all ask God to help all our people because not one of us is perfect and there is something for each of us to learn. Evangelist: Neither you or Cynique have given Kola credit for taking a stand.. Babygirl: I beg to differ. We have both commended her talents and passion and have had Kola respond with her wrath in response. Evangelist: Where is the evidence of it being "Harder" being mixed race than being very dark skinned? Babygirl: If every time someone of mixed race wants to share that and you immediately dismiss them, how will you ever see or even understand it from their point of view? It's as Linda said, if you don't walk in those shoes you don't know what the hell you are talking about. It is hard to be any shade of black in this world, dark or light. I asked Kola for an opportunity to walk in her shoes, to understand her convictions based on her experiences because they are unlike my own. Kola responded with insults and accusations, you took up for her behavior as if her belligerence and ugliness actually accomplished something positive and ultimately, it would seem, we have all agreed to continue to disagree. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2116 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Evangelist chided me for not giving Kola credit for taking a stand. Maybe that's because implicit in the stand she takes is that others have to fall in order for her to stand. She does not speak for everybody; she has a vested interest in her crusade. So stand on, Kola. But you ain't gonna put your foot on my neck in the process. The bottom line in the heated discussion is that the black race in America is very fragmented. The question of color can be compared to Humpty Dumpty. When this egg that is teetering on the wall falls, all the kings horses and all the kings men and Kola Boof won't be able to put it back together again. In a hundred years, there will be no specific "race"; there will just be a multi-hued population. Look at the big picture, folks. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 99 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
One of my research interests is in assisted reproductive technology and genetics. Reading stuff in these areas makes me frequently ask myself questions about the issues that you all have been debating here. Cynique, your last sentence especialy is something I have wondered: Just what IS the "big picture"? Right now, the exact color of your skin (as well as your hair texture, eye color, facial features, proclivities to obesity, etc. etc.) are a function of the combined DNA from your genetic parents and your environment (including "lifestyle choices")--Not a true "accident" as we sometimes say by way of shorthand and not truly "random" as we also sometimes say. Barring rape, many people around the world have a choice about who they mate with (and for those who don't, those who arrange these things have a choice). Part of this choice may be guided--subconsciously or not--by certain folk concepts about what can and can not be inherited, and by what human features are or are not thought to be desirable/advantageous/etc. I say "part" and "may be" because this may be true for some people or for some times, but certainly not for all--or at least, to varying degrees (with greater and lesser consequences). I know this is not news; Probably not a lot of disagreement so far. But what if we could totally pick and choose our children's genetic makeup: * Would we feel free, for example, to mate with someone very dark skinned out of love and then change the skin color of our kids to be lighter to be in line with our view of what is desirable? * On the other hand, would some very pale parents, for example, engineer darker kids who don't lobster-up in the summer sun? * Would we make our children smarter than us? If so, by how much? * Would lip size and hair texture choices come into and out of vogue, much like naming fads? * Would this large scale "multi-huing" process you speak of, Cynique, happen faster? * Would everyone have access to these technologies that could result in "buffet babies"--and, if not, won't there still be a more powerful elite, a non-powerful underclass, and an unstable bunch in the middle? * And, if the above comes to pass, can we tell ahead of time what "hues" these three groups will look like? I am not staking my claim in any camp or the other. But I do feel that the two most important "pictures" are the big one that Cynique aludes to, but also the right-here-and-now one that involves "how do I assure that my kids grow up proud and strong and beautiful" that I hear Kola alluding to. You two may not agree with me that these are the two "pictures" you're viewing, but it is part of what I hear. And viewing either picture--let alone both simultaneously--is very difficult when we are also dealing with our own childhood and ongoing pain around these issues. Don't know if I said what I set out to, but thanks for reading regardless! | ||
| Badmamajama Newbie Poster Username: Badmamajama Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
How come the leading lady in Kola's novel "Flesh and the Devil" is high yellow with green eyes? UH. As I recall the leading man is high yellow too. This is why I'm not understdg. peeps claims that she is colorstruck. Have they even read her books? I seen Kola trying to befriend Cynique's evil ass for years on here. Where is that mentioned? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2117 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvettep, you ask the valid questions of a mentality grounded in the context of academia, the definitive answers to which research in both sociology and anthropology would be required. So I just have to wing it and give you a opinion. What I base my "big picture" perspective on is what all the people who are opposing me are saying, and what I have observed; that there is a trend that is surging, and the trend has to do with biracial dating. Running parallel with this trend is one that, influenced by the images in the media, indicates that black men are gravitating toward Beyonce and Alicia Keyes types. Also figuring into this equation is that, to a rising degree, black women are branching out into the white dating pool. These trends cropped up in both California and New York and they are converging in the middle. So we have a situation where the black race is being increasingly infused with Caucasian, Asian, and Hispanic blood and the offpspring of such unions are probably going to mate with people who look like they do, creating a new sub group. (Incidentally marriage isn't a huge factor in these interracial couplings, but having babies is.) Whether this is good or bad remains to be see. I don't know if this phenomenon is something that will totally eliminate dark skin but it will create an new ethnicity which will be populated simply by "people of color". To Kola this is an anathema. To me, it is the next step in the evolution of the human species, one that may very well personify the best in all racial stocks. A super race. Is this written in stone? No. I can just do what everybody else is doing: speculating. Whatever. I won't be around in hundred years, so - fuck it. LOL | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2118 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
EU. I see you're back, sadmammyjama, with your insipid remarks. I have said on any number of occasions that I am not interested in being friends with Kola, especially since she attracts bitches like you into her camp. She says she doesn't care if people like her, and I don't either. So crawl on back over to Mama-Kola and suck on her ninny jugs some more, ding bat. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2119 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
EU. I see you're back, sadmammyjama, with your insipid remarks. I have said on any number of occasions that I am not interested in being friends with Kola, especially since she attracts bitches like you into her camp. She says she doesn't care if people like her, and I don't either. So crawl on back over to Mama-Kola and suck on her ninny jugs some more, ding bat. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2120 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Twice for good measure. heh-heh. And while I'm here, sadmammyjamma, do you know what the term "color struck" means?? The fact that Kola wrote a book about 2 light-skinned people says a lot more about her, than meets the eye. (She was probably orgasmic the whole time she was identifying with the characters.) | ||
| Badmamajama Newbie Poster Username: Badmamajama Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
No Cynique. I have noticd that Kola's books evenly represent all the colors of black, from jet black to vanilla light. That was my point. Her last one that I just read featured a love story between a high yellow man and woman. In the book she showed thru flashbacks that in ancient times, these two characters were Jet Black Africans. In all her books, I see close relationships depicted between light women and dark women, especially the short story collection set in Africa. Biracial people are in these books and are shown as part of the black family. That's why I sometimes find Kola's comments on the board radically different from her books and that's why I disagree totally with your claims of her being colorstruck. Her work just don't bare it out or maybe in her books she is portraying the way things ought to be. As for you calling me bitches and all other kinds of names in your last few posts, I guess BabyGirl will continue to politely not notice that about you. You sure have a lot of nerve trying to pretend that Kola's the evil colorstruck one, lady. And you can call names all year, it don't dent my mind. You're really not a nice person and that's the bottom line. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2121 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Puleeze, BADMAMMYJAMMA. The screen name you chose to enter this debate speaks volumns. You jumped in the fray, feet first, using a lot of choice adjectives to call me a bunch of names. And, what nobody seems to realize is that I don't care if Kola is color-struck or not. If she is, that's her problem, not mine. What I object to is her trying make her points by putting down people who aren't the same color as she, and that's all she ever talks about; that and how brilliant and beautiful she is. I never bring up the subject of color because I'd rather discuss ideas than people. So don't take on your Polly-Anna role with me and get all self-righteous. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. I fight my own battles. Let Kola fight hers. She's perfectly capable of delivering her own insults. | ||
| Rustang Newbie Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
In my line of work you see veeeeery few of the brothers.The effect of this has been that I found myself nominated for a position that I had no desire for,that being the representative of a people to large number of folks that really never had any dealings of any sort with any of us on a level deeper than standing in the same line at the grocery store.Fortunately,I was blessed with enough snap upstairs to notice some things at an early age.When a white dude says something stupid it's "see how he is?".When I say something stupid,it's "see how they are?"That's the world as it is.I feel that I have an obligation to hold myself to far higher standard of competence and integrity than my white counterparts.When I fall short I make things a little bit tougher on all of us.I have to live as if when people say "no matter how good you get at this,there will always be somebody better" they are talking about me.The reason for that is that,with one mistake,I can set the civil rights movement back 50 years to an entire segment of the white majority.This is a site peopled by examples of black intelligentsia.If a white person were to wander in here,what would their impression be?I can't compell anyone to shoulder a responsibility,and I wouldn't even if I could,but I would like to point out that,if this was a site of white writers,poets,etc...this thread would be written off as a cat fight with no further thought of it.But this is not a collection of white writers,it is a collection of possibly the only contact internet bloggers will ever have with black culture.So,I could become persona non gratis for saying this,but not only are you behaving like spoiled children in the throes of a temper tantrum,you are also making things a little more difficult for black people everywhere that have never even heard of AALBC.I would ask that you refrain from this foolishness and start acting like the people that you actually are.If that angers anyone,I would honestly have to say that,having had the folks with the pointy white hats in my front yard throwing bricks and yelling on more than one occassion,your wrath is not that imppressive.But,I still believe that we can get along with each other and the world around us if we want to. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
Bad, I have no reason to comment on Cynique's name calling to Kola, as such has no bearing in any context or comment that I have made to Cynique. That's on them. And it surely has nothing to do with my "politely not noticing," because any rational human being would have to be deaf, dumb, and unable to read, to not notice. When I commented on Kola's name calling it was in reference to her interaction and direct comments to me. Any reference to Cynique came after Kola's tirade as she commented on Cynique's response to a statement I made. When I returned comment to Kola, such was addressed as it related to what was being shared between us. Bottom line, as Cynique noted, Kola gives as good as she gets and if they choose to be in it, that's on them. But since you want it addressed, perhaps you can explain to me why an intelligent, talented, seemingly rational young woman such as yourself, finds it necessary to curse, swear at, and be otherwise as vulger as possible to address an issue she may or may not agree with? You and Kola don't like what Cynique said or something she's done and suddenly you're calling her a bitch and it's on. What is the allure about being able to cuss like a sailor and act the ass? I look at you, an exquisitely beautiful young black woman and I see unlimited potential. Then you open your mouth as evidenced by a radio interview I heard, and every tenth word is a profanity and suddenly, the shine on that beauty starts to fade. I read your book, and though engaging, I was amazed that by the first page alone you had probably managed to use every swear word in the human vocabulary and though it may have related to the "street" essence of the story you were telling, there was still a part of me which questioned its necessity. So, perhaps you can help me to understand. And please, temper your reponse. I am not attacking or criticizing you. Think of it as my having been sheltered in a box my whole life with no understanding of who, what, and why and you now have an opportunity to share and enlightment me with the dynamics of your world. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Babygirl, I notice you didn't make a single comment on Cynique's post to YvetteP where she described mixed people as a "super race", "the best of all races". Did you notice how Cynique said very cavalierly that she didn't know if this new race would totally wipe out dark skinned people? Did you notice how she said it as though she couldn't care less if it did? No, my sister, you claim to be so interested in equality of all shades, yet you keep failing to comment or react to anything said unless it's by the person you've been attacking with your sarcasm from post #1 and that's Kola. So do me this favor, and temper your response, O PRETENTIOUS ONE, learn to practice what you preach. You are one judgemental, tunnel visioned woman who hasn't been objective not once in this whole debate. I came in here, initially not agreeing with Kola, but your posts and Cynique's post to Yvette about the mixed people forming a "super race" really turned me all the way off and made me realize that Kola is right. Lightskinned women, THAT WOULD BE YOU, are in denial big time and they do benefit by gaining status from having white blood and they want to protect those privileages, you and Cynique are proof of that. You're in denial. Big time. You ignored BMJ's breakdown of Kola's books and the fact that all colors of blacks are shown as family in them. No, you had no comment on that. I checked this whole thread, my sister, and noticed that it is Cynique who has called people names including the "B word" on this thread--not Kola or anyone else. You attacked BMJ, claiming she's less than you because she curses and cursed in a book she wrote. Who is she by the way? What is her book called? Over and over again, you tell the ball faced lie that you're a dark skinned black woman when it's so exceedingly, and I mean overwhelmingly clear my sister, that you are not who you say you are. If you were, then you would have to acknowledge some of what Kola is saying at some point. You keep pretending to do that and then making a demeaning comment directed at her afterwards. Just the fact that she has her own board here ought to give you some indication that she is speaking for more people than just herself. Apparently, you have not noticed that a great deal of black folks OUT THERE, my sister, are becoming very enraged and vocal about this issue. I am not even dark skinned and I have seen what she describes far more than what you and Cynique describe. Lydia Essence Magazine | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2122 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Rustang, if you read my posts you would find that what I have to say is more than just cattiness. And if you are the independent thinker that you say you are, you won't allow what white people might think to inhibit a discussion that provided a forum for an exchange of ideas. Yes, there was fireworks, but people on both sides were making valid points, airing the different sentiments representative of the black community at large. That's what makes this board live. Have you read any good books lately? There's a category on this board where you can go and discuss what you're reading. The category under which all of this was being debated was one created by Troy to discuss race, culture and politics. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
Brother Rustang--my sentiments exactly. To the rest of the board, may I please invite you to RE-read this post by Cynique, which I feel says it all. If this doesn't prove the woman condones colorism and is even welcoming of the extinction of black folks, then I don't know what does. I suppose self-hatred and a lack of value placed on black people is what would make others agree with a statement like this. Cynique: what all the people who are opposing me are saying, and what I have observed; that there is a trend that is surging, and the trend has to do with biracial dating. Running parallel with this trend is one that, influenced by the images in the media, indicates that black men are gravitating toward Beyonce and Alicia Keyes types. Also figuring into this equation is that, to a rising degree, black women are branching out into the white dating pool. These trends cropped up in both California and New York and they are converging in the middle. So we have a situation where the black race is being increasingly infused with Caucasian, Asian, and Hispanic blood and the offpspring of such unions are probably going to mate with people who look like they do, creating a new sub group. (Incidentally marriage isn't a huge factor in these interracial couplings, but having babies is.) Whether this is good or bad remains to be see. I don't know if this phenomenon is something that will totally eliminate dark skin but it will create an new ethnicity which will be populated simply by "people of color". To Kola this is an anathema. To me, it is the next step in the evolution of the human species, one that may very well personify the best in all racial stocks. A super race. Is this written in stone? No. I can just do what everybody else is doing: speculating. Whatever. I won't be around in hundred years, so - fuck it. LOL EVANGELIST: Whether Sister Cynique is right or wrong about her speculations is not the issue. It's the way she sees black people as something to be "evolved from" that bothers and offends me. Yet we are to call her a black woman. There's a lot of truth in what Kola Boof says about many of these women that we "call" black women in our community. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2123 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Essence Magazine. Whooo. Big Deal. Well, Lydia I just got my copy of Essence with the picture of all of those light-skinned and golded-brown women on the cover. Not one dark-skinned sister among them. Puleeze. What a hypocrite. And I did acknowledge everything Kola said when I answered Yvettep, so get your facts straight. You must not be in the editorial depasrtment. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
Ms. Cynique I have not disrespected you, but I expected that kind of ignorance and nastiness from you. Your viciousness in this thread has been beyond catty, but worse than that, it's uncalled for. At least with me. Lydia Essence Magazine | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2124 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
All of you reactionary folks have no imagination. Y'all really got upset about my saying that the human species is going to evolve. You are all stuck in time, clinging to the status quo, afraid to contemplate change. You think that everything will stay the same, that nature will not take its course. You're afraid to contemplate the future because it makes you uncomfortable and insecure. Abstract ideas frighten you. Cynique is really a bad person because she thinks that trends have significance. Why would she ever think anything like that. Doesn't she know that time stands still. We know that time doesn't move on. At least we hope it doesn't. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2125 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Well, Lydia I never ceased to be amazed at people who come out firing with both barrels and then get mad when I respond. But look at it this way. I'm good for you; I jolt you out of your smug, complacency and make you realize that everybody's opinions can be challenged. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2126 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
OK, folks, you can post all the criticism of me you want to. I gotta go because this fool discussion is taking up too much of my time. I say, and I say again that all of you injured and indignant people need to take stock of yourselves. Nobody is above having what they say rebutted. If you don't want me to repond, then don't attack me. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Pretty, why should I comment on EVERYTHING everyone else says? I asked questions of KOLA to understand HER viewpoint. I already understood Cynique's and I understood WHY she felt as she did. I didn't need to ask her to explain herself. Nor did I feel it necessary to agree with or not disagree with her or Kola. They both expressed their opinions based on their experiences, as did Linda, and Yvette, and all the others who chimed in, providing me with invaluable information. All did a bang up job and not a one was looking for Babygirl's validations of that fact, so why are you? I asked for information and questioned statements as it may or may not have related to my own views. And I've not IGNORED anyone. In fact, I have taken every word of it in. And where did I deem to make any claims? I expressed my personal feelings and impressions, and questioned the feelings and opinions of others. I didn't pass edict about anything other than to express my disappointment with and my own impressions of Kola's foul diatribe which greatly deterred from the points she was trying to make. I questioned her actions to understand her thinking, no more, no less. If she or anyone else felt attacked by my perceived sarcasm, then perhaps they need to get out of the public eye because if you put yourself out there then you inevitably set yourself up for people questioning, critizing, and disagreeing with you. Just ask Kola, she's experienced more than most of us. Pretty: "You attacked BMJ, claiming she's less than you because she curses and cursed in a book she wrote. Who is she by the way? What is her book called?" Babygirl: How did asking BMJ to express her thinkings suddenly become an attack? I am interested in knowing about her and NEVER did I say or even attempt to infur that she or anyone else is less than me! I claimed WHAT? Let me cuss. Like HELL I did! So don't come at me distorting what is clearly in black and white to instigate what doesn't need to be started. And what's the problem, Pretty, I haven't broken enough verbs, called anyone out of their name, or told them to kiss one of my body parts so clearly, I can't be black? I haven't bemoaned the fact that I was passed over for a promotion and the white girl got it, or no man wants me cause my hair ain't long and my eyes ain't blue so therefore there's no way I can be dark-skinned? I haven't listed every offense, hidden agenda, or blatant disregard of my person, so I just have to be lying about my color? I didn't pat Kola on the back and blindly applaud and agree with her comments from the jump so I just have to be mixed race or white? Are you saying that it isn't remotely possible that I could just be free thinking with experiences that don't model Kola's or yours and so my impressions may not be the same because all black folk or all black folk who are REALLY black have to feel the exact same way about each and every topic relating to race and color and anything else on the black folk agenda? And if you don't know who Paula aka BADMAMAJAMA is or the name of her book, then you should ask her yourself. It's her decision whether or not she's interested in you knowing. And understand this, Pretty, I know exactly from where Kola's rage comes. Kola is NOT the only black, half-black, brown-black, yellow-black, tan-black, blue-black woman who has had to endure rejection, betrayal, and racism because of the color of her skin. Kola was not the first, nor will she be the last BLACK, HALF-BLACK, or MIXED RACE person who will be judged based on the color of their skin. Racism is no more unique to her personally, than the sun, moon, and stars are. I don't need to pat Kola or Cynique or you or anyone else on the back to say yes you're right or no you're wrong. These are strong women, strong individuals, with stronger opinions and convictions and they don't need my validation to know it. I understand and respect this. Why don't you? | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: I never ceased to be amazed at people who come out firing with both barrels and then get mad when I respond. But look at it this way. I'm good for you; I jolt you out of your smug, complacency and make you realize that everybody's opinions can be challenged Babygirl: Thank you! I could not have said it better myself. | ||
| Rustang Newbie Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
To Cynique I would say that I did not mean to sound as if I was saying that your posts are merely cattiness.I have read each and every post made on this thread and good points have been made.That is the exchange of ideas that tends to bring about a clearer perspective for everyone.This is a good thing.The exchange of insults,while I do understand that sometimes people,myself included,can't resist taking a good cheap shot at the messenger to discredit the content of the message,that sort of thing does no good for anyone.(BTW,I never said that I am a free thinker. )My point was this.We are not in a position as a people to be able to afford that dubious luxury some have of saying I don't care what the casual spectator thinks.I would have to admit that,as an individual,I reached a point at which,independant of what this or that person might think,my bills will be paid.I have worked very hard for a very long time to reach a place where I am no longer two paychecks away from the soup kitchen.But to live in a way that speaks loudly that I care about nothing but me and mine is an idea that I find very repugnant.I feel that I have a responsibility to make things a little easier for the next guy,not a little tougher.Perhaps I am a little too sensitive about the image I project to the world at large.Perhaps,somewhere along the way,I just got tired of shouting matches that profit little if any.Or,perhaps I just got tired.But as far as exchanging ideas,growing individually and collectively,living side by side and getting along with each other and the world as a whole and seeing our children go as far as their abilities will carry them without external restraints that are based on what they are rather than what they are capable of doing,I will choose E)All of the above.C'mon folks.Let's play nice. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2315 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
*WHEW!* INTERESTING thread! Bravo to all who contributed to it. I think, though, within Cynique's "super race" post she references to the EXACT issue that her opponents defy...and ALL of us should dread. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2316 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Babygirl, I admire your attempt to more subtly debate Kola. Such a tactic might have curbed the ire of many. But Kola is like a force of nature. And a thunderstorm does not care whether you are polite while you curse it. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 100 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: "mentality grounded in the context of academia"--that's definitely me--LOL! Sometimes I wonder if I still speak English, I'm exposed to so much academic jargon. But seriously, I see where you are coming from: I hear you not necessarily as advocating for such trends as observing them and challenging people to confront their own discomfort with them. Not to put words in your mouth: just part of what I am taking away from your posts. I might take some issue with the extent to which your observation is actually widespread, or will continue to spread. "...there is a trend that is surging, and the trend has to do with biracial dating." Of course, you are correct that it has as much/more to do with dating and having babies than with marriage. Thus, demographic figures (e.g., Census) of this are hard to come by since they are based on marriages and what the govt calls "households." But at least for marriages the vast majority of Blacks and Whites of both genders still marry folks who get categorized on the Census as being of their same "race." (This is not true of Asian females, who have, if I remember correctly, the highest "outmarriage" rates.) Now, it will be interesting to see how this marriage trend goes as/if more folks choose to self identify as "mixed race" on the Census. "These trends cropped up in both California and New York and they are converging in the middle." Again, Cynique, I am not so sure how saturated this trend will become in middle America. Definitely to some extent, but I think not to a great one, based on all sorts of historical and current reasons. "Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen." This is exactly the key to this issue as I see it. I, too am speculating here. But one issue I see as falling on the "bad" side is that regardless how much skin color will "evolve," power likely will not. For example, in 100 years the Bush clan will likely look like they do now and still be in possession of their power. Likely true, too for the other world X% of the population that holds XX% of the world power and wealth. This may leave the now-vast "people of color" to find ways to distinguish among themselves in competition to shake whatever remaining resources from the figurative "bushes." On the good side may be if more "white" people with some power come to be part of "multiracial" families, and as a result gain a new appreciation for the subtleties of bias, racism, and discrimination. All speculation. I do agree with you, Cynique, that confronting these issues is a good thing and that this requires a ton of imagination and creativity. I do not agree if you are saying that such changes are inevitible, or that our not being around to observe their outcome is reason to absolve ourselves of the responsibility for questioning the goodness or badness of the situation. What I hear others reacting to is that they see that "nature" is, in fact, not being allowed to "take its course." There are folks in control of wealth, power, privilege, resources, images who are assisting the direction of "nature." Why, when I took my daughters recently to Disney World, did we witness in the "Princess Parade" 5 princess with pale skin, 2 princesses with olive/tan skin, and 0 princesses with dark brown skin? (Nala, the "Lion King" lioness does not count as she is, afterall, a lioness...) If we are moving towards a "colored" society why is Santa still a jolly, ruddy-cheeked white man on every street of every American city except (maybe) MLK Ave? This is not "nature taking its course," but the intentional decisions made by real people. And I hear some posters on this board in their calmer moments advocating for the deconstruction of these decisions, and the recognition of the part that we ourselves play in them. But again you, Cynique, are so right that imagination in all this is necessary. There is nothing to be feared about a little imagination. Maybe the masters' tools will not help us dismantle this house. But the same old worn out hammers we have been using will not do the job either. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 142 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette to Cynique: But seriously, I see where you are coming from: I hear you not necessarily as advocating for such trends as observing them and challenging people to confront their own discomfort with them. Not to put words in your mouth: just part of what I am taking away from your posts. Mah: Thank you, Yvette, for putting this more succinctly than I ever could. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thank you, ABM. Your comment is appreciated. And I'm sure I'll learn to better appreciate the everchanging weather. Yvettep: "Imagination in all this is necessary. There is nothing to be feared about a little imagination. Maybe the masters' tools will not help us dismantle this house. But the same old worn out hammers we have been using will not do the job either." Babygirl: Nicely put, Yvette. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2320 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yvette/Cynique, I think we should be free to discuss most anything...especially HERE. But for centuries, if not millenia, darker people endeavored to prove themselves the equal of others. Thus, the notion of the formation of a "super race" - however such would be fashioned - is worrisome to many. Because entertaining the possibility that a mixed race is somehow better than others could be used to rationalize past and current racism and buttress future evils that we have yet even to divine. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 101 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
For large populations of people, in general and over long stretches of geological time, genetic fitness will be optimized with greater, as opposed to lesser, genetic variation. Populations comprised of genetically diverse members (be they people, species of fly, or corn) are more likely to select-in some of its members for further adaptation in an environment than are populations comprised of less diverse, more "in-bred" members. Having said this--which is my current understanding, as a non-geneticist, of population genetics--I do NOT advocate for "super races" or for re-interpretation of this nugget of information to break down on "racial" lines. People who do that are misinterpreting (sometimes willfully, sometimes just out of ignorance) the idea of populations. I have had to work hard at developing an openness to knowledge and information despite the knee-jerk fears and worries it may provoke in me. If such "knowledge" is flawed (and it often is), the only way to combat it is with more rigorous knowledge. Anyway, that's my take. Maybe you were not saying I agreed with the whole super race thing. I want to make clear again that I do not, and further that such an idea is not even scientifically sound. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
In the spirit of Kola, I will ask this. What kind of "Black People" could imagine a future world without black children in it? And do so casually. I don't think "White People" could even think such a thought in regard to their race. Their next thought would be to wipe out every other race of human so that ONLY whites existed. About a month ago, I began emailing Kola Boof, hoping to put together some kind of article about her for ESSENCE magazine, and in researching her work, I will admitt that I am greatly changed in my thinking on this subject, because I very recently read "Long Train to the Redeeming Sin" and "Flesh and the Devil", easily the two most powerful books I've read by a Black author in 5 years. Now barring this current subject of color and a super race, what I gathered mostly from those novels by Kola was that many of us "Black People", especially here in America, rarely ever question (why) we think the way we think or even recognize that a lot of our thinking is abnormal, and to be polite, slave-like. Again, I ask. How do people with dark or brown skin collectively dream about their descendents having tan, olive or white skin? And do so casually, as if it's just the natural order (as Cynique put it) for an entire race to die off while a whiter mixed breed race, one that would definitely symbolize white supremacy by default of the their black ancestor's death, is produced in place of it? Doesn't that metamorphasis in itself prove that the White race is superior and doesn't it also prove that the mixed race group, due to their black blood, will forever remain inferior? I would especially be interested in Yvette and Mahogany's opinions. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 102 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Prettybabygirl, I am not failing to hear your sentiments, and even agree with much of what I perceive you to be saying. (Read again my previous post.) First, I guess, I would ask you to define what is a "black child"? How do we define, measure, certify someone as "black" and "not black"? Who gets to decide? Second, again I am not a geneticist. But I do know that based on the nature of dominant versus recessive genes, it is virtually impossible for a steadily intermixing population to ever become such that "ONLY whites" will exist. Genetically it is Whites who should be afraid of extinction, not Blacks. (And this is exactly a large part of the message in the scared rhetoric of White supremacy groups.) Third, in my post above I questioned Cynique's assertion that the complete hybrid process she speculates about is inevitible. Power doesn't need large numbers of people to dominate, just large stores of wealth and power. Thus, in my post above I speculated that the "color of power" will remain in its current configurations of relatively small numbers and relatively pale skin. Fourth, I also said in my previous post to Cynique that I hear people on this board as legitimately calling each other on how we participate in our own oppression. As to your assertion that Black AMericans "rarely ever question (why) we think the way we think or even recognize that a lot of our thinking is abnormal, and to be polite, slave-like," I can only say that you and I do not read the same African American publications, or go to the same hair salons/barber shops, or hang out in the same family and friendship circles. Black folks have been questioning these things from day one, and these discussions will continue. What I am agreeing with Cynique on is that we need to be a lot broader, creative, and imaginative and a lot less risk-averse in considering alternate points of view. I may be misunderstanding your position, or what it was exactly that you were interested in hearing from me. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 149 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hey, Prettybabygirl... I'll start by reposting what Cynique said, because my first step in addressing your questions was to go back and re-read what she said, which was this: Cynique: what all the people who are opposing me are saying, and what I have observed; that there is a trend that is surging, and the trend has to do with biracial dating. Running parallel with this trend is one that, influenced by the images in the media, indicates that black men are gravitating toward Beyonce and Alicia Keyes types. Also figuring into this equation is that, to a rising degree, black women are branching out into the white dating pool. These trends cropped up in both California and New York and they are converging in the middle. So we have a situation where the black race is being increasingly infused with Caucasian, Asian, and Hispanic blood and the offpspring of such unions are probably going to mate with people who look like they do, creating a new sub group. (Incidentally marriage isn't a huge factor in these interracial couplings, but having babies is.) Whether this is good or bad remains to be see. I don't know if this phenomenon is something that will totally eliminate dark skin but it will create an new ethnicity which will be populated simply by "people of color". To Kola this is an anathema. To me, it is the next step in the evolution of the human species, one that may very well personify the best in all racial stocks. A super race. Is this written in stone? No. I can just do what everybody else is doing: speculating. Whatever. I won't be around in hundred years, so - fuck it. LOL Mah: Secondly, here's what Yvette said that I concurred with (my only contribution so far to this thread): Yvette: But seriously [Cynique], I see where you are coming from: I hear you not necessarily as advocating for such trends as observing them and challenging people to confront their own discomfort with them. Not to put words in your mouth: just part of what I am taking away from your posts. PBG asked: What kind of "Black People" could imagine a future world without black children in it? And do so casually. Mah: Depends on how you define "black." Imo, someone's views does not make them black or not. You can reference the one-drop rule, but... I think we are not talking about someone “being black" as much as it is being conscious, cognizant, and concerned ABOUT blackness and ABOUT black people and ABOUT oppression as-and here's the rub—we each prefer to dictate the definitions of those things. This is not an objective matter. As to the casual nature of Cynique's speculation, I chalk that up to two things. First, since she sees this (if it happens) as evolutionary, and therefore inevitable and unstoppable, what else can she be about it other than casual? Secondly, I read Cynique’s “casualness” as part and parcel of her demeanor, her “fuck it” attitude and outlook. But not as commentary on how racially conscious or concerned she is. She’s cynical. And we can argue that cynicism is apathy’s first cousin and will doom us all to hell, but still…cynicism does not mean colorist or self-hating. I take Cynique at face value, whether I agree with her positions or not. In the case of the future and the “trends” she’s talking about, I’m not inclined to see what she sees in the tea leaves. My concurrence with Yvette was simply to state that Cynique’s comments were more observation than advocacy, and that as usual, she was challenging people out of their comfort zones. I have no problems with this. Hell, she may not know it, but she’s challenged my ass a time or two with her posts, and you see I didn’t say shit about that on this board! LOL! As to Cynique’s race-consciousness or concern for black people, first of all, I don’t spend a whole lot of time judging people in that regard. I’m more inclined to be about affecting social change in my spheres of influence, which may or may not include calling people on it when I feel they are coming up short. And I try to lead and challenge by example, rather than by criticism and condemnation, if I can help it. And at the end of the day, sometimes I just have to agree to disagree. Also, Cynique, it would seem, is old enough to be my grandmother, so I do view her with a certain humility and respect (that’s how my Nana raised me!), respect for experiences she has had that I can only theorize about. Doesn’t mean I think she’s always right, or that I would hesitate to challenge her if I felt the need. But it does mean that when she posts, I consider myself listening to an elder, and I adopt an appropriate posture. Yes, there are old fools, but Cynique is not among them. I look to the sum total of her posts about politics, art, history, and activism, and even while I don’t agree with her entirely, I don't find her wanting in terms of race-consciousness and concern (as I define it; your mileage may vary). If we must use the language of "kinds" of people, then Cynique is my kind of people, more often than not, in this particular vein. Again, PBG asked: What kind of "Black People" could imagine a future world without black children in it? And do so casually. Mah: What Cynique speculated about gets at the very heart of how we currently define black (or not). If we currently consider biracial children “black,” then couldn’t the future children Cynique is talking about still be considered “black.” If these future children aren’t black, then doesn’t that mean that today’s biracial children aren’t “really” black, and doesn’t it piss us off when their white mamas try to shove that down our throats? This is why I was not put off by Cynique’s speculating. As it challenges notions of blackness and relationships and power and genetics, I thought it excellent food for thought. Good discussion fodder, once we get past “How can you think that????” or questioning folks’ blackness. And certainly the vicious personal attacks—on all sides—are totally unnecessary and unproductive. Now. I have no idea why Cynique called this “super race” the “best” of all racial stocks, but if I was all that interested and put off, I would have simply asked her to elaborate. And again, my lack of interest isn’t based on lack of concern for black children—it is based on the fact that Cynique just doesn’t alarm me with her conjecture. PBG: I don't think "White People" could even think such a thought in regard to their race. Their next thought would be to wipe out every other race of human so that ONLY whites existed. Mah: Without debating the specifics of the above, I will ask: And this is new? Regardless of what white people are willing to think, regarding race or anything else, black people do ourselves a disservice when we start acting like the thought police for other black people. PBG: Now barring this current subject of color and a super race, what I gathered mostly from those novels by Kola was that many of us "Black People", especially here in America, rarely ever question (why) we think the way we think or even recognize that a lot of our thinking is abnormal, and to be polite, slave-like. Mah: Which is why it’s especially important that we don’t attempt to police each other’s thoughts. Who gets to decide what is “abnormal”? I’m much more inclined to have a challenging discussion with someone who has the capacity to view me as an equal than someone who is obnoxiously didactic and self-righteous. Also, I’m most willing to be taught by those who themselves are teachable. And I don’t think I’m unique in this. No disrespect intended PBG, but you work for Essence, and yet it wasn’t until you read Kola’s books that you gleaned some of these issues? Given that, I can understand why you find Cynique’s musings hard to swallow! PBG: Again, I ask. How do people with dark or brown skin collectively dream about their descendents having tan, olive or white skin? Mah: You lost me. Aren’t we just talking about Cynique? And I didn’t read her comments as “dreamy” at all. But that was my take on it. PBG: And do so casually, as if it's just the natural order (as Cynique put it) for an entire race to die off while a whiter mixed breed race, one that would definitely symbolize white supremacy by default of the their black ancestor's death, is produced in place of it? Mah: But in Cynique’s scenario, there would cease to be white people as we currently know them too… Unless one believes only dark=black. How dark? Blue black? Dark chocolate? Am I, with my milk chocolate self, really black? And again, I ask, what about today’s biracial folks? Who gets to decide? And tell me again why we are asking the question in the first place? PBG: Doesn't that metamorphasis in itself prove that the White race is superior and doesn't it also prove that the mixed race group, due to their black blood, will forever remain inferior? Mah: My answer: No. Superiority isn’t a natural, genetic condition. It’s a social construct. How people are VIEWED by society based on skin color is the question. We already live with the presumption of white superiority. There aren’t degrees of this. Some people hold these views, others don’t. This will never be modified genetically/genetically determined, whether Cynique’s speculation is realized or not. PBG: I would especially be interested in Yvette and Mahogany's opinions. Mah: There you have it. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 150 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette: What I am agreeing with Cynique on is that we need to be a lot broader, creative, and imaginative and a lot less risk-averse in considering alternate points of view. Mah: Preach. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 126 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Pretty I am curious as to what you mean by: What kind of "Black People" could imagine a future world without black children in it? Are you indicating that there are different kinds of blacks as Kola does? Is there a certain format you two seem to use for this calculation. Because if it is...please share. For what I see is many shades of black people that are all considered black, no certain kind. Now what Cynique has stated is a theory and possiblity can happen over time. It is around us everywhere. Latino are mixing with blacks and whites...Blacks are doing it....etc. But also in this picture I see blacks with blacks that are still producing beautiful black children. There is not as big a shortage as Kola seems to imply. There are still blacks of all shades mixing together to strengthen the pool...just go to the clinics and for every light skinned, biracial child you find ...you will also find just as many darker skinned. Go to the schools go wherever and it is there you will see that what Kola seemd to think about all blacks is not true. Not everyone is trying to be lighter as she indicates. Why is it you can't see that it is just as wrong to advocate segregation among our selves. Why should I tell my children if their mate is not dark enough ...don't have kids...the race is dying out. Hell...it has been dying out for some time now and it has nothing to with color and everything to do with the anger we feel for each. We kill our selves everyday with drugs...guns and ignorance. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2127 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I appreciate the incisive interpretations of my comments by some of you. What I don't understand is why certain people become so upset by my mention of a super race. Why can't you conceive that one thing that would make a super race a super race, would be its inclusion of black blood! Why do you get so panicked by the eventuality of race blending? If a trend toward the interracial fraternization that breeds mixed offspring keeps up, it's not as if white blood would dominate. White-colored skin would also become neutralized. Not all eyes would become slanted, or blue, not all hair would become straight. Give your genes and your DNA some credit! Anyway, things have a way of sorting themselves out, and only time will tell what the face of America will look like in 100 years. Not you. Not me. I make no apologies or offer any further explanantions for allowing myself to consider what might be a future possibility. So tighten up your rigid minds and get as mad and as indignant as you want. It makes me no difference. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette: First, I guess, I would ask you to define what is a "black child"? How do we define, measure, certify someone as "black" and "not black"? Who gets to decide? ME: I would have to agree with Kola, overwhelmingly, that those original peoples in Africa who have been invaded, enslaved, raped and forced to create lighter offspring, although these lighter offspring in Africa are not considered "black", are the ones who are truly black and would be the most knowledgeable ones to "decide" as it were, because unlike us, they have their original culture, language and system of identifying themselves that is not given to them by white men or invaders, but made up by them, "the black people". In fact, I find it to be another indication of our Eurocentric arrogance when we claim that we, using the "tools" of color categorization given to us by white men, appoint ourselves the ones to decide and not them. Toni Morrison and Marita Golden and a growing list of scholars and intellectuals have also now asked the question in writing--how do we take the word of a mixed person calling himself "black" and ignore the word of actual black skinned people who say such mixed person is not black? As we become more mixed, fragmented, divided and less familiar with African-American culture, surely many of our offspring will also begin to see and feel that they aren't really "black". So for the sake of argument, lets say that the black people who were brought to this country in chains from West Africa, and whose genetics now threaten to be exterminated, are the ones who are "Black". I have no problem being open, Yvette, to other "ideas and expressions", such as Cynique's, however, I do take issue with your implication that "knee-jerk" responses are indeed "knee-jerk" or are somehow grounded in emotion rather than historical fact and sociological factors. Haven't black women, historically, just accepted the "system of self-hatred" in our community and done little to challenge it? Even if that's not what Cynique or anyone else is doing, that is the perception I get. That you are saying, "Well, that's the way things are, let it run its course." Kola is not saying that. She is aggressively standing against "business as usual" and this is why I, and many other young black women, feel so energized and stunned by her. We aren't used to this kind of woman who has the nerve to insist that we are already good enough and that we should exist just as we are. I've never in my life heard a black woman talk about the value and literal majesty of blackness the way she does. Never. Are the rest of us missing something? NEXT. What I am saying to Yvette, Linda and Mahogany is this. I perceive, perhaps wrongly, that you are comfortable with and accepting of a "population" that 100 years from now will surely produce great numbers of men who look like Tom Cruise and Eminem, but will also most likely no longer have the ability to produce men who like my jet black grandfather, my deep chocolate father, my great grandmother who was, as Kola calls it "charcoal". If I'm wrong, please forgive me, but this is the way you sound to me. It's as though light brown people and an abundance of lightskinned, mixed and biracial people are "good enough" for black representation. Additonally, because you guys seem to infer that mid-brown is black enough for the future or that a couple the complexion of Will and Jada is black enough, that we needn't worry about the very extremely dark skinned among us or as Kola calls it "the authentic blacks" no longer existing, then it's as though you're ignoring the fact that the messages being received (and even sent by your passiveness), as you pointed out Yvette at the Disneyland parade, is that those mid-browns will eventually feel the pressure to become even lighter and the people Linda's color will feel the need to become even lighter. This, in fact, has been the cycle for a very long time--only now the "chocolate" people are the "new lowest", which used to be the "blue blacks" and the "yellow" people like Linda are the new "browns"--they're inbetween. The Biracial people are the "New High Yellow", placed above all of us. As has been documented, African-Americans have become lighter in color every single generation since slavery ended. Some black woman in a book by Henry Louis Gates was telling her children, "Only get married if they're lighter than you are." This not a "trend" or has anything to do with "genetics", obviously. It's part of white supremacy and our community actively taking part in the belief systems of white supremacy. Linda implies that Latinos and Whites are mixing just as much as blacks, which is simply not true. 97% of whites still marry, date and procreate white people. Only 3% of white Americans are marrying and procreating outside of the white race. Most latinos are 2 chromosomes away from being White in the first place. Even the Puerto Ricans, who once identified with black folks in this country, are thumbing their nose at us and identifying with the new Latino immigrants, most of whom use black folks for political support, but take the side of the whites when advancing social discourse. This has nothing to do with genetics, Yvette, because 300 years from now, Whites, Latinos and Asians will most surely still exist as "monolithic groups" in addition to new "Mixed Race" designated groups, while blacks will have mutated into "people of color", and will probably be even more confused and disconnected from heritage and self-love than they are now. In other words, there will be no women who look like Oprah or Angela Bassett, just as we really do not have women who look like Sojourner Truth or Hattie McDaniel anymore. To me, it's those type of women who give us our very culture and "the most love" in the first place. So, all I'm saying is that I can totally relate to Kola's accusation, "We are killing our own mother". I totally relate to her saying, "there is no HONOR for the frog that fails to worship its own pond". I totally relate to her saying, "the only people who benefit from interracial unions are those in the white dominant culture, because the cycle of self-hatred does not stop just because one attains light skin and wavy hair. In fact, it intensifies, because white looks is a teaser for white ideation." I love that word she uses---"ideation". Kola says that it took 500 years to all but exterminate the American Indian from North America. I did some research and discovered that about 96% of the Indians living in America today, are only about 3/4ths Indian by blood. 62% of them are fully bi-racial, and very tellingly, the vast majority of Indians today do not marry other Indians, so their numbers in the future are going to be very bleak. I also followed up on Kola's assertion that as a North African woman, her people have seen this same type of what she calls "genocide" systematically introduced in North Africa where it has now swept the black populations into the south--because the larger the population of mixed people grew, the less they wanted to be related with the blacks, and in fact, they are notorious for denying ANY black ancestry. As Kola has told us countless times, "The Moors" are extinct and Cleopatra's intermarriage laws, decreed by the Romans, have virtually wiped the original Egyptians and it's notable that Egypt fell with Cleopatra as its final dynastic ruler. Kola frightens ME and many people, because she gives very hardcore, "written in stone" solutions. Her basic admonition is---"If you're truly a black person and loves our race and its people, then you should have no problem with becoming blacker. Rather than embrace the cultural and physical erasure that comes with assimilation and mixing, why not embrace the purest of your own people's ethos? Why not uphold, celebrate, cherish and affirm your own people's humanity?" So LINDA---this is what I meant by "What Kind of Black People". I meant this: Don't we affirm blackness by creating more of it rather than diluting it? And if you are very light skinned, Linda, then that means there is white blood or some other blood that is not African that is making your skin so much lighter, right? So clearly, you have to acknowledge that your personal "blackness" is diluted, even though it is still black. I totally disagree with your feeling that Kola is putting down people your color. It's obvious that what she is saying is that people of your color should not be the direction for all of our people. Even you admitted that you married a dark skinned person to have darker children and that you try to prove your blackness, whereas if you had dark skin, you wouldn't have to. So, in essence, you are confirming what Kola says about blackness and black identity. Being darker validates your blackness and being very lightskinned questions the validity of your blackness. I feel that Kola makes incredibly "credible" arguments, and again, hers are more tangible and are almost identical to the ones that Sociologists are making. Our "population mixing" is occuring because of racist, white supremacist thinking structures that are not only still in place, but that are routinely enforced by people of color themselves. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
So now Mahoghany, Cynique's last post put it right out there about a super race. Do you concur with that sentiment as well? Sounds like ADVOCACY to me. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2128 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I also said I make no apologies for daring to think outside of the box. You got a problem with that?? Take it to Kola. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 151 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
PBG:I would have to agree with Kola, overwhelmingly, that those original peoples in Africa who have been invaded, enslaved, raped and forced to create lighter offspring, although these lighter offspring in Africa are not considered "black", are the ones who are truly black and would be the most knowledgeable ones to "decide" as it were, because unlike us, they have their original culture, language and system of identifying themselves that is not given to them by white men or invaders, but made up by them, "the black people". In fact, I find it to be another indication of our Eurocentric arrogance when we claim that we, using the "tools" of color categorization given to us by white men, appoint ourselves the ones to decide and not them. Mah: Fine. Let them decide. Doesn’t mean that I will adopt their classifications or be swayed on way or another. Black people work, effectively, against oppression every day without entertaining such things. I’m still wondering why we’re classifying based on shade anyway…and in the same breath complaining about folks being colorist. PBG: Toni Morrison and Marita Golden and a growing list of scholars and intellectuals have also now asked the question in writing--how do we take the word of a mixed person calling himself "black" and ignore the word of actual black skinned people who say such mixed person is not black? As we become more mixed, fragmented, divided and less familiar with African-American culture, surely many of our offspring will also begin to see and feel that they aren't really "black". Mah: Whether I take someone’s word (about WHAT, btw?) has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with common sense. Dark-skinned people are as capable of saying ignorant, misinformed shit as anyone else. PBG: Even if that's not what Cynique or anyone else is doing, that is the perception I get. That you are saying, "Well, that's the way things are, let it run its course." Mah: Okay, that’s not what I’m saying, nor am I perceiving anyone else here to be saying that. Kola is not saying that. She is aggressively standing against "business as usual" and PBG:I perceive, perhaps wrongly, that you are comfortable with and accepting of a "population" that 100 years from now will surely produce great numbers of men who look like Tom Cruise and Eminem, but will also most likely no longer have the ability to produce men who like my jet black grandfather, my deep chocolate father, my great grandmother who was, as Kola calls it "charcoal". If I'm wrong, please forgive me, but this is the way you sound to me. Mah: No apology needed, but you are wrong about me in that regard. Absolutely. PBG: It's as though light brown people and an abundance of lightskinned, mixed and biracial people are "good enough" for black representation. Mah: Well, all those people are black, and that’s good enough for me. People can’t be anything but what they are. PBG: Additonally, because you guys seem to infer that mid-brown is black enough for the future or that a couple the complexion of Will and Jada is black enough, that we needn't worry about the very extremely dark skinned among us or as Kola calls it "the authentic blacks" no longer existing, <snip> Mah: The only thing I can do about this is to tell people with whom to mate and that’s not going to happen. My brown-skinned child can believe dark-skin is beautiful and still marry someone her own complexion. So she’s failed to produce a darker child than herself? And this is a crime? I agree: if someone tried to AVOID producing darker generations, that’s a problem. I’m not saying that this doesn’t happen, but for those of us who aren’t living like that, there’s still work to do in fighting oppression. There are many fronts on which the battle is fought. PBG: then it's as though you're ignoring the fact that the messages being received (and even sent by your passiveness), as you pointed out Yvette at the Disneyland parade, is that those mid-browns will eventually feel the pressure to become even lighter and the people Linda's color will feel the need to become even lighter. This, in fact, has been the cycle for a very long time--only now the "chocolate" people are the "new lowest", which used to be the "blue blacks" and the "yellow" people like Linda are the new "browns"--they're inbetween. The Biracial people are the "New High Yellow", placed above all of us. Mah: So what would you have us do? Because I’m not insisting my child produce darker progeny, I’m condoning white supremacy? That’s quite the leap. Yes, white supremacy and colorism exist, but I haven’t heard you offer a solution except, it seems, to shout from the rooftops about who is and isn’t authentically black. Another huge leap is about the mid-browns eventually feeling pressured to become lighter. Yes, some people hate their color and want to be lighter. And some of us don’t. Have you ever wondered why this is? PBG: As has been documented, African-Americans have become lighter in color every single generation since slavery ended. Some black woman in a book by Henry Louis Gates was telling her children, "Only get married if they're lighter than you are." This not a "trend" or has anything to do with "genetics", obviously. It's part of white supremacy and our community actively taking part in the belief systems of white supremacy. Mah: And like so many things, not all of us are complicit in this. PBG: To me, it's those type of women who give us our very culture and "the most love" in the first place. Mah: Well, there will be a chasm between you and I because the “most love” idea based merely on skin color is absolutely ridiculous. I have been loved in my life by women of all shades, and the gradations of love have no correlation to skin color. I can’t believe I just typed that. PBG: Kola says that it took 500 years to all but exterminate the American Indian from North America. I did some research and discovered that about 96% of the Indians living in America today, are only about 3/4ths Indian by blood. 62% of them are fully bi-racial, and very tellingly, the vast majority of Indians today do not marry other Indians, so their numbers in the future are going to be very bleak. I also followed up on Kola's assertion that as a North African woman, her people have seen this same type of what she calls "genocide" systematically introduced in North Africa where it has now swept the black populations into the south--because the larger the population of mixed people grew, the less they wanted to be related with the blacks, and in fact, they are notorious for denying ANY black ancestry. As Kola has told us countless times, "The Moors" are extinct and Cleopatra's intermarriage laws, decreed by the Romans, have virtually wiped the original Egyptians and it's notable that Egypt fell with Cleopatra as its final dynastic ruler. Mah: You continue to cite Kola’s information, but respond very little to things I posed to the questions you posed. Like I said, I have no interest in being taught by the unteachable. PBG: Her basic admonition is---"If you're truly a black person and loves our race and its people, then you should have no problem with becoming blacker. Rather than embrace the cultural and physical erasure that comes with assimilation and mixing, why not embrace the purest of your own people's ethos? Why not uphold, celebrate, cherish and affirm your own people's humanity?" Mah: Well, my ass is too grown and too big to be jumping through anyone’s racial litmus test hoops. That said, I wouldn’t care if I became darker or if my children did or their children did. But guess what? I ain’t gettin’ no darker. So now what? PBG: So LINDA---this is what I meant by "What Kind of Black People". I meant this: Don't we affirm blackness by creating more of it rather than diluting it? Mah: We can affirm blackness in as many ways as there are numbers of us. “My way or the highway” is a guaranteed discussion killer in my book. PBG: And if you are very light skinned, Linda, then that means there is white blood or some other blood that is not African that is making your skin so much lighter, right? So clearly, you have to acknowledge that your personal "blackness" is diluted, even though it is still black. Mah: If you want to view blackness as pure genetics, yes. But if we are talking about cultural identification and commitment to social justice and community uplift, blood is irrelevant. PBG: I feel that Kola makes incredibly "credible" arguments, and again, hers are more tangible and are almost identical to the ones that Sociologists are making. Mah: Sociologists? ALL of them. LOL! Lord, have mercy… What of sociologists, psychologists, and all the rest that have said blacks were inferior? Talk about selective me-search! PBG: Our "population mixing" is occuring because of racist, white supremacist thinking structures that are not only still in place, but that are routinely enforced by people of color themselves. Mah: And is this too from the Sociologists? This would be news to my friends and relatives who marry and date interracially, or date black people who are lighter than themselves. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 152 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
PBG: So now Mahoghany, Cynique's last post put it right out there about a super race. Do you concur with that sentiment as well? Sounds like ADVOCACY to me. Mah: I've already offered my layered opinion (and point of disagreement with Cynique) on the super race concept. But of course you can't be bothered to read what I wrote since I'm not agreeing with you. S'ok. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique says: If a trend toward the interracial fraternization that breeds mixed offspring keeps up, it's not as if white blood would dominate. White-colored skin would also become neutralized. Greetings Cynique. My concern is not whether white people gain a little flavor or not, which I doubt seriously they would cease to exist in any real numbers. Combine the Black and Latino population today, Cynique, and Whites still outnumber them twice over. Cynique said: "Also" become neutralized. But what about black people with chocolate skin and nappy hair and full features like myself? Are you suggesting we just give up being black and make do with a nation full of varying mixed folks? I think what is really an "eventuality" is the separation I see coming between the mixed groups and the dark skinned group. This has happened everywhere that substantial race mixing occurs, in South Africa, in South America, in Europe and North Africa. The dark skinned black people, for survival sake, are forced to cut all ties with the mixed group, much like the story told in "PARADISE", Morrison's novel about a town comprised and allowing only the purest blacks. Since my wife is lightskinned and my children are considerably lighter than myself, I would be very sad to see this occur, but after reading so much history about these divisions between dark and light in other parts of the world, I would also be glad to know that someone who looks as I do might be able to achieve life because of the formation of an all dark skinned city or area. That, I think, is more the eventuality that is coming, which is very tragic for us all. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2129 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I ain't suggesting nothing. As if you'd pay any attention to my suggestions. I said what I said. Take it or leave it. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 103 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
Prettybaby: You have written a lot here and your views are clearly heartfelt. I do not know what to say, except that when you make statements like this: "Most latinos are 2 chromosomes away from being White in the first place" you are demonstrating my contention that we'd all be served by more actual knowledge about genetics than to say that it has "nothing to do" with anything. BTW, I am not a geneticist, but I am a sociologist, so I would be interested to hear which "Sociologists" you are refering to as having views almost identical to Kola's. I feel the value of Kola's viewpoint is that she is a challenge to traditional academic beliefs, and can state them more strongly and widely than any academic could. Similarly I feel that is the same value of Cynique's views--as a challenge to our zone of comfort. I did not say that we Black Americans should decide who is Black, simply asked you to give your opinion of who should. Which you did. I find the assertion that our "truly black" kinspeople in Africa should decide pretty interesting. I think they probably have better things to worry about (e.g., continental AIDS crisis, tribal genocide, oppression of women and girls, remnants of European colonialism, famine, debt relief) than to cater to Black Americans' pathologies about who is or is not "Black enough." | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Actually, Yvette--who is or is not "black enough" is one of the major issues between Africans right now as Rwanda and Sudan's genocides point up. I feel exactly as Mahogany Anais does about "color". I have 32 flavors in my family and to me we're all black. I also totally agree with Mahogany that culture affirms our blackness as well as color does. However, I do acknowledge the contention being made by the Africans that our "system" for identifying color is one that was forced on us by our slave master and that said master declared that anything touched by us was defiled and therefore "black". Perhaps because it's all we know, we are stubbornly dismissing what our original beliefs were? The Africans have been race-mixing for centuries and do call themselves "black", yet have never called their mixed offspring "black", and have not loved them any less because they weren't dark. They just simply call them the color they look like. Therein lies my point. I agree with you and Mahogany the most, which is why I asked your opinions. But I also find enormous brevity and downright common sense in what Kola has written. I am not representing her well, because I am focusing on only one facet of her message, but I guess you are right about me being emotional in one sense, and that is this--I am identifying with her message mainly because she is black and from Africa and has such a radically centralized view of her identity, very similar to ours, but how can I explain it--more of us than we are us now. Do you kind of understand? Perhaps I am being a blithering idiot. I guess we all get feelings of "patriotism" towards Africa. As for sociologists--almost all of the ones I've read agree that most Americans who are not white suffer some form of self-denial, self-hatred or non-acceptance of self on some level and act accordingly. And I have read sociological findings from 1920's up to now and they all make the point that we are "Americans", adopting and adhering to what is "American"---which by default, is European and mutes our Africaness. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2130 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist, I didn't mean to be so short with you, but this "Cynique says" phrase that is being bandied about on all of these posts is getting to be a bit much. I never said my mouth was a prayer book. I realize you are a sincere man of the cloth so I respectfully ask you why did you marry a lighter skin woman, feeling the way you do? Why? In doing so, you betrayed your convictions. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique you totally have my "convictions" all wrong. I am not against lightskinned people at all. I am a deep dark chocolate man with a wide nose, full lips and nappy hair, and my statement from go was that I have personally witnessed and seen what Kola Boof talked about all my life. In fact, I will admit myself that I married my wife probably 60% because she was lightskinned. There were dark girls and light girls who liked me and the dark ones didn't have a chance, but it had nothing to do with those girls. My mother raised us that black was "ugly and bad". She said it was too hard being black. She told us that she was discriminated against for being dark skinned and she did not want us to suffer being dark like she did, so she told us to marry someone light skinned just like that girl said. Now, at 50+, I feel differently about myself, because my wife has confronted me about my own self hatred and made me see that my skin color is attractive and that God would not have created it if there was something wrong with it. I am not against lightskinned blacks by any means. I love my wife and children, but I was very touched and enthused by Kola Boof's words, because it hits home for me and other dark people. We are not loved, put up in front and we are not valued the same as the light folks. I don't care what any of you say! We suffer a horrible brand of racism that you can not possibly understand and if it takes someone like this African lady to bring a new way of thinking, then I have to support her and commend her. Like I said, I would not want to see mixed people replace the black people, because you are talking about replacing my race. My race is black. My wife is black and our children are lighter than me, but darker than her. They have nappy hair and look more like the people in Africa than like the ones in Europe. I want them to continue to be black and would want them to be exposed to people who love blackness the way Kola does. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2131 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
OK Evangelist. I will just chide you for not practicing what you preach. And my problem with Kola has always been that she was so fanatical and unbalanced in her "black is beautiful" tirades that as far as her loving her color, I had to wonder if there was a thin line between love and hate. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 127 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
PBG:I've never in my life heard a black woman talk about the value and literal majesty of blackness the way she does. Never. Linda: Perhaps you too only listen to individuals of darker skin to acquire your information. Perhaps, as Kola you feel that light skinned individuals don't have the right to advocate alongside the darker hues or that their words fall on deft ears when they speak on matters of race. There have been several instances where Kola has spoke of light skinned women who came before groups of darker women to talk of issues and the darker women felt they had no right to represent the black race. So I guess these speakers passion are not deemed as equal to Kola. Not black enough. Please give me a break. PBG: Are the rest of us missing something? Linda: Obviously we are when those of yours and Kola's mindset feel you have the only answers and the right to classify blackness. What I am saying to Yvette, Linda and Mahogany is this. I perceive, perhaps wrongly, that you are comfortable with and accepting of a "population" that 100 years from now will surely produce great numbers of men who look like Tom Cruise and Eminem, but will also most likely no longer have the ability to produce men who like my jet black grandfather, my deep chocolate father, my great grandmother who was, as Kola calls it "charcoal". If I'm wrong, please forgive me, but this is the way you sound to me. PBG: You should apologize, because if this is the perception of what has been said on this thread, You are missing the point. In my opinion Cynique has only said what is possible. I have only stated that we seem to be continuing to do what we say we depise, which is segregation. Only different is that it is within our own black race. PBG: It's as though light brown people and an abundance of lightskinned, mixed and biracial people are "good enough" for black representation. Linda: If their representation is too advocate equality or jobs or whatever for the black race, why shouldn't it be viewed as a stepping stone and accepted in the true spirit of helping their race? PBG: Additonally, because you guys seem to infer that mid-brown is black enough for the future or that a couple the complexion of Will and Jada is black enough, that we needn't worry about the very extremely dark skinned among us or as Kola calls it "the authentic blacks" no longer existing, then it's as though you're ignoring the fact that the messages being received (and even sent by your passiveness), as you pointed out Yvette at the Disneyland parade, is that those mid-browns will eventually feel the pressure to become even lighter and the people Linda's color will feel the need to become even lighter. This, in fact, has been the cycle for a very long time--only now the "chocolate" people are the "new lowest", which used to be the "blue blacks" and the "yellow" people like Linda are the new "browns"--they're inbetween. The Biracial people are the "New High Yellow", placed above all of us. Linda: Where did you glean that from? PBG: As has been documented, African-Americans have become lighter in color every single generation since slavery ended. Some black woman in a book by Henry Louis Gates was telling her children, "Only get married if they're lighter than you are." Linda: So what's your point. That all light skinned people and darker skinned ones as well want to be lighter. It's a proven fact that whites adhere to this practice of changing their skin tone as well. Milliions of dollars are spent every year on tanning lotions as well as bleaching creams. You sight Marita Golden as saying don't play in the sun where as whites swarm the beaches. PBG: This not a "trend" or has anything to do with "genetics", obviously. It's part of white supremacy and our community actively taking part in the belief systems of white supremacy. Linda: I see this as people making choices for their lives. No one is telling them to do it, there is no gun in hand. PBG: Linda implies that Latinos and Whites are mixing just as much as blacks, which is simply not true. 97% of whites still marry, date and procreate white people. Only 3% of white Americans are marrying and procreating outside of the white race. Linda: You need to go to the hood and trailer parks. Everyone knows that statistics come from surveys of certain demographic areas. It is easy to say if you go to a black neighborhood that 90% of blacks are in prison, nation wide the figures change. PBG: Even the Puerto Ricans, who once identified with black folks in this country, are thumbing their nose at us and identifying with the new Latino immigrants, most of whom use black folks for political support, but take the side of the whites when advancing social discourse. Linda: Why shouldn't they. Blacks shouted for years and you and Kola keep expressing that only pure blacks can belong to the black race. PBG: This has nothing to do with genetics, Yvette, because 300 years from now, Whites, Latinos and Asians will most surely still exist as "monolithic groups" in addition to new "Mixed Race" designated groups, while blacks will have mutated into "people of color", and will probably be even more confused and disconnected from heritage and self-love than they are now. Linda: Pure speculation PBG: In other words, there will be no women who look like Oprah or Angela Bassett, just as we really do not have women who look like Sojourner Truth or Hattie McDaniel anymore. Linda: I don't know where you live, but I see plenty of these types of women and their off-spring. PBG: To me, it's those type of women who give us our very culture and "the most love" in the first place. So, all I'm saying is that I can totally relate to Kola's accusation, "We are killing our own mother". Linda: This is so ridiculous a comment. Now you would have me believe that love from a mother has color coded hidden agendas. Light mothers can't love or teach their young when they themselves have been taught by their ancestors just as equally as a dark mother? PBG: I totally relate to her saying, "there is no HONOR for the frog that fails to worship its own pond". Linda: This is what I mean, your is theory lop-sided. Not all frogs in the pond are the same shade of green, yet they worship in the pond and are accepted in the pond along with the rest and they are still a frog. There is no seperation as with the light and dark hues. PBG: the larger the population of mixed people grew, the less they wanted to be related with the blacks, and in fact, they are notorious for denying ANY black ancestry. Linda: Maybe they weren't welcomed and felt the need to seperate from the race...not black enough to belong because they weren't considered black enough. PBG: Kola frightens ME and many people, because she gives very hardcore, "written in stone" solutions. Her basic admonition is---"If you're truly a black person and loves our race and its people, then you should have no problem with becoming blacker. Rather than embrace the cultural and physical erasure that comes with assimilation and mixing, why not embrace the purest of your own people's ethos? Why not uphold, celebrate, cherish and affirm your own people's humanity?" Linda: I guess you want us to buy those tanning products to satisfy the needs of people who feel darker is better and burn our butts up trying to change our skin tone PBG: So LINDA---this is what I meant by "What Kind of Black People". I meant this: Don't we affirm blackness by creating more of it rather than diluting it? And if you are very light skinned, Linda, then that means there is white blood or some other blood that is not African that is making your skin so much lighter, right? So clearly, you have to acknowledge that your personal "blackness" is diluted, even though it is still black. Linda: Diluted, yes, but still black. Which is why we are having this discussion. There are no right or wrong shades of black. PBG: I totally disagree with your feeling that Kola is putting down people your color. It's obvious that what she is saying is that people of your color should not be the direction for all of our people. Even you admitted that you married a dark skinned person to have darker children and that you try to prove your blackness, whereas if you had dark skin, you wouldn't have to. Linda: Yes, I made that choice because I didn't want them to not be accepted by people with you and Kola's mindset of not being black enough to belong. One thing is for sure...white people make their hatre known...blacks try to sugar coat it. PBG: So, in essence, you are confirming what Kola says about blackness and black identity. Being darker validates your blackness and being very lightskinned questions the validity of your blackness. Linda: Only amongst the black race it seems PBG: Our "population mixing" is occuring because of racist, white supremacist thinking structures that are not only still in place, but that are routinely enforced by people of color themselves. Linda: Population mixing is a choice of the individuals who have their own agendas of who they want to marry, have children with, etc. PBG: then it's as though you're ignoring the fact the people Linda's color will feel the need to become even lighter. Linda: This is total b.s. I love playing in the sun. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 153 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
PBG: Toni Morrison and Marita Golden and a growing list of scholars and intellectuals have also now asked the question in writing--how do we take the word of a mixed person calling himself "black" and ignore the word of actual black skinned people who say such mixed person is not black? As we become more mixed, fragmented, divided and less familiar with African-American culture, surely many of our offspring will also begin to see and feel that they aren't really "black". Mah: Hmm...if they do feel this way, could it possibly have anything to do with Real Black People (the aforementioned "scholars and intellectuals") TELLING them they aren't really black. Let me get this straight: They will consider themselves black. White people will for damn sure tell them they are black. And yet... Interesting. Another leap: Lighter skin = less familiar with African-American culture. Somebody better tell Nikki Giovanni, Malcolm X (rest his soul), Pearl Cleage... Fragmentation and loss of culture can happen whether we "mix races" or not. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Linda, I read that essay about the Professors who went to Ghana. You totally misquoted Kola. (1) Those West African women were insulted not because the American women had high yellow skin, or because many of them appeared from a distance to be white. They were offended because all 12 Professors, without a single exception, was high yellow or white looking and had on African garb, which highlighted the fact that Historically Black Colleges have also been historically colorstruck, and as recent as the mid-1970's, almost every single black woman Professor of note was very high yellow to white-looking. HBC's were notorious for not hiring brown or dark women, who had to work at White Universities. Have you never noticed that, and if not, then WHY? As the essay goes, these West African women had been waiting weeks to see African American women "come back to them", and not a sinlge one came back in the image of a West African woman, meaning dark brown with natural hair and black features. Again, very telling. (2) You aren't inferring that white people "tan" because they want to be black are you? Isn't a tan TEMPORARY, the most they can look is Italian or Greek, and don't they always borrow people's looks and culture only to return to their superior whiteness? I think your analogy on that one was totally ignorant. Tanning is no way comparable to the swallowing of skin lightening pills, mating light to produce lighter progeny. (3) As I stated before Mahogany: I feel exactly as Mahogany Anais does about "color". I have 32 flavors in my family and to me we're all black. I also totally agree with Mahogany that culture affirms our blackness as well as color does. However, I do acknowledge the contention being made by the Africans that our "system" for identifying color is one that was forced on us by our slave master and that said master declared that anything touched by us was defiled and therefore "black". Perhaps because it's all we know, we are stubbornly dismissing what our original beliefs were? The Africans have been race-mixing for centuries and do call themselves "black", yet have never called their mixed offspring "black", and have not loved them any less because they weren't dark. They just simply call them the color they look like. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 154 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
PBG: I feel exactly as Mahogany Anais does about "color". I have 32 flavors in my family and to me we're all black. I also totally agree with Mahogany that culture affirms our blackness as well as color does. Mah: So they get to be black because, what, you can personally vouch for them? Why is your presumption about the larger population of lighter-skinned folks different than what you are willing to extend to your kinfolk? Why are these people you don't know (and generations yet to be born) presumed guilty--of not being willing to be darker, not being familiar with A-A culture, etc.? PBG: The Africans have been race-mixing for centuries and do call themselves "black", yet have never called their mixed offspring "black", and have not loved them any less because they weren't dark. They just simply call them the color they look like. Mah: Do "the Africans" also assign a hierarchy to these loved ones, based on color? Do they assume these lighter folks are lesser vessels for the transmission of culture? Are they told not to marry each other? | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 155 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
PBG: --I am identifying with her message mainly because she is black and from Africa and has such a radically centralized view of her identity, very similar to ours, but how can I explain it--more of us than we are us now. Do you kind of understand? Mah: I hear what you're saying, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Just because Kola is black and from Africa doesn't make her an expert or otherwise elevate her in my eyes on the subject of my identity, or any other subject. I might find some value or merit in something she has to say, but not because of her blackness or her African-ness. She's not the only black person from Africa I know. But strokes for folks, streaks for freaks. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Excuse me Mahogany You got me all the way wrong and I owe you a big apology, because you're taking my debate argument to be my personal philosophy. What made me come on here, my sister, is that this person BabyGirl told Kola she should go back to Africa. I didn't see you or Yvette jump to her defense or her right to stay and express her views as an African woman in America, so I did. But honey, before you start passing out "licks", you would be surprised to find that I look more like you than Kola, in fact, I'm probably a little bit closer to looking like "Daughter of Linda", and I'm mostly just taking up for Kola, because I feel that I gained a very different and important perspective from reading her work. One that I would not like to be prohibited from reading just because people like Cynique and BabyGirl don't agree with it. To me, much of their namecalling, Cynique called everybody a "bitch", etc. indicated that I might only have their traditional American perspectives to draw from, which I know like the back of my hand already. That was where I am coming from. Again, I specifically asked you and Yvette's opinions, because yours sounded the most like my own gut reactions and sounded like me. I apologize if you're taking my debating personal. I lost twice on the debate team in school and like pretending to be totally of one view and seeing how far I can debate that side. In response to your last question, apparently, human nature dictates that all humans assign "trust" to those other humans that look the most like them. That is why I think America itself has a bigger problem than just race and that maybe we have to expect KAOS for having 300 different races, nationalities and religions in one country. But that's just my opinion. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Mahogany, I see all lightskinned people nationwide as "black folks". Some of the ones like Vin Diesel, I'm not so sure, but Pearl Cleage, hella yeah, her ass is black! But I am fascinated by the news that if this was 1619, and I was one of the first Africans brought to this nation--I would not be able to see it that way, just as I probably would not be a Christian. That was my point all along. The "Knowledge" as Yvette called it. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
One last note, Mahogany. In Kola's book "Long Train", there's an interview at the end and she names the "Authentic Black Women" who inspired her to write--Pearl Cleage, Bebe Moore Campbell, Toni Morrison, the girl that directed "Eve's Bayou"---all very lightskinned women and she refers to them as "Authentic" black women. Again, I feel that people are misconstruing her message, because all through her books is praise of lightskinned sisters as well as dark. That is why I am dumbfounded by Cynique's comments about her. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2132 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, you're dumbfounded, prettybabygirl, because you're deluded. You haven't heard the comments Kola has made about me. What you Kola disciples don't seem comprehend is that Kola sets herself up as the arbitrator of who is "authentically black." And in order for someone to have this title bestowed on them by her, they have to conform to her criteria. But I don't accept her as an authority or this subject because she ain't an authentic African American herself. She is a self-appointed judge and her litmus test is very exclusive. So all of you dumbfounded converts who are mesmerized by her dramatic rhetoric and sad tales of woe, and her half truths and vacillating positions, just continue to be mesmerized. Me, I don't allow other people to define me. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 128 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
PBG: Linda, I read that essay about the Professors who went to Ghana. You totally misquoted Kola. Linda: Perhaps you should check the archieves again. Kola and I were having a debate over her sons cutting the throats of my children due to skin color and other issues. No essay was involved. Now, I understand that you are researching Kola for an interview that is fine and dandy. But for you to assume that you know all of what Kola has conveyed to myself and others on this board in regard to color and how she feels about light skinned individuals you are wrong. You know not. Kola has provoked many to think about issues of race, for that I give her credit. We are not enemies. But she has also shoved her thinking down so many throats that the bad over shadows the good of her fight. Those that would rally behind her now leave her to stand alone. If she could learn to express herself in a more civil way, perhaps all of the discussions would have shown that I for one understand what she is saying. Being extremely dark is as bad as being extremely light within our race. Still, it is all one race and for her to say she would never allow her children to marry or date light skinned girls while on the other hand she licks up to every light person in a public position is sickening. Maybe you need to do a little more research on who you are interviewing and her motives. PBG: 2) You aren't inferring that white people "tan" because they want to be black are you? Isn't a tan TEMPORARY, the most they can look is Italian or Greek, and don't they always borrow people's looks and culture only to return to their superior whiteness? I think your analogy on that one was totally ignorant. Tanning is no way comparable to the swallowing of skin lightening pills, mating light to produce lighter progeny. Linda: Are you inferring that blacks lighten to be white? Whites tan, fill their lips and pad their butts and breast to look black not be black...just as blacks lighten their skin, thin their lips and butts and breast to look white not be white. Neither by any cosmetic changes will ever be other than what they are...no matter how they look. It is the mind beneath the skin that must change. And until society stops thinking vainly and blacks and whites and any other race learns to be comfortable with self we will continue to have this dividing line of beauty and beast, dark and light, fat and skinny, etc. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
White mothers don't put their babies up for adoption at birth for being "too white". White mothers don't berate their children for having "white" hair. White mothers don't instruct their sons to bring home the darkest girl you can find, Linda. There's a world of difference. I hate to take sides in any of this, dear ladies, but it agonizes me so much Linda when folks use the reasoning you're using to dismiss this subject, simply because they wish it would go away. Forget about Kola. What about the feelings and complaints of the rest of us, the loud growing dark crowd of us that are far beyond this message board? Surely you have been hearing about us. Did anyone see the film by T.D. Jakes? "Woman Thou Art Loosed?" It showed how the lowest people in the community, the darker skinned black women, count on the church deacons, pastors, etc. as their only ways of being listened to. In all other phases of the community, they feel invisible and without a voice. By not allowing this issue total open consideration, we are dividing ourselves, because the darkest of us, especially dark women, have no voice and are not heard. The story about the 12 College Professors going to Ghana was a shocking example of darker women not having a voice, and instead of acknowledging that Linda, you came back to tell us that Kola wants her sons to cut the throats of your sons. Well after that story about the College Professors and not a single one being dark, who can blame her? I went to Fisk, so I know all about that "practice". Doesn't that practice bother you, Linda? Isn't that important? The world of black people did not begin with one set of dark blacks and one set of light skins. Forced brutal slavery and rape created light skinned people and those people were placed in front and above the rest of us. That is a fact and we must now sort out the problems stemming from that fact. Denial and evasion of the issue will get us nowhere, because I can promise you that the teens who come to my church, both dark and light, talk of almost nothing more than this very dilemna. The darker skinned kids are withdrawn with anger and contempt and the light skinned kids just wish everyone would stop talking about it, because they are made to feel guilty about being lighter skinned. It's not going away. It's getting worse. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 156 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
PBG: You got me all the way wrong and I owe you a big apology, because you're taking my debate argument to be my personal philosophy. Mah: Um. Nah...nevermind. PBG: What made me come on here, my sister, is that this person BabyGirl told Kola she should go back to Africa. I didn't see you or Yvette jump to her defense or her right to stay and express her views as an African woman in America, so I did. Mah: And your point is? Were we supposed to jump to Kola's defense? Kola is perfectly capable of defending herself as YOU well know. I've never participated in these color pissing contests previously, and only did so this time because you asked my opinion directly. So, you'd do well not to read anything into my silence, not if you want to be accurate. PBG: But honey, before you start passing out "licks", you would be surprised to find that I look more like you than Kola, in fact, I'm probably a little bit closer to looking like "Daughter of Linda", and I'm mostly just taking up for Kola, because I feel that I gained a very different and important perspective from reading her work. Mah: Licks? What are you talking about? And now who's taking things personally? Perhaps I would be surprised by how you look...if I cared. I haven't given it a second thought. Unlike you and Kola, your appearance has absolutely no bearing on how I perceive the points you are attempting to make. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Gee Mahoghany. I guess you sure told me. LOL | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
izzz aight. we sistas are sistas forever. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 157 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette, Can you please re-post your blog link? Thanks! | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 129 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist: The world of black people did not begin with one set of dark blacks and one set of light skins. Forced brutal slavery and rape created light skinned people and those people were placed in front and above the rest of us. That is a fact and we must now sort out the problems stemming from that fact. Linda: So in your opinion, am I to understand that this is the light skinned individuals fault? It appears to me that the blacks are placing the blame on the wrong group. Why be angry at the light skinned people? Just because a handfull of them feel superior you think they all do? You act as though light skinned people don't understand how they came to be or want to help change things. The problem is that Kola and many others feel they have no part in the struggle to make things better because of their skin tone. Just what is it you want from the light skinned...an apology for being born with different skin? I would be foolish to think that my passion and love for my black race is any less important than the darker individuals, which is what you seem to be trying to make me believe. You know nothing about how it feels to fight for a race that doesn't want your presentation because you are not black enough. So for the record preach your b.s to someone who thinks as you do. You feel only the darker blacks feel invisible and have no voice, they are the only ones in pain, isolated. Well, too bad because that is how the light skinned individuals have felt all along. Shut out and isolated from the root of their race. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2133 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, I'll take the role of the devil's advocate.You're a man of God, Evangelist. Why do you think He let it come to this? Why did He let slavery create this situation? Is it the disaster you perceive it to be, or is there a grand design in all of this. Coming together and being one is the under pinning of all religions. Why is the idea of people blending for the greater good so repugnant to you? Is it because you want others to sacrifice but you yourself won't sacrifice. Do you think vanity and pride comes into play here? | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 104 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Wow, I log off for a few hours and miss a whole slew of posts! A point by point is not necessary, but I do want to say that I did not "defend" Kola (or Cynique, for that matter) cuz if any two women on this board can speak by and for themselves it is these two. For a while I considered starting a separate thread about the issue of names, self-naming, and name-calling. In general folks calling each other "out they name" brings up lots of hurt feelings in me, and I find it difficult to believe that it is 100% true for anyone that "names can never harm me." But then I backed off: Didn't want to appear to be a "thread nanny," especially as a relative newcomer here. And especially since I can just choose to ignore the name-calling and speak of more substantive things and/or choose to see the name-calling as healthy, even creative "dozens playing." Plus, there is a rumor going around these parts that Kola and Cynique are in real life bovine lovers and all this spatting is just for show. LOL. Seriously, though. This is SUCH an emotional issue. I just do not feel that anything is gained by playing that old, tired game of "who is Blacker than who." Let's say for argument's sake that such an exercise could be successfully accomplished (perhaps by these true Africans who according to one of us seem to be busy murdering the too-blacks and too-whites back on the Motherland). Then what? Mah: Here's my blog http://blog.lib.umn.edu/perry032/impossible/. I do want to mention, tho, in case anyone here drops by there that I have a post from today that is a tongue in cheek response to a lot of Google and other searches for "girls with big butts" that have been turning up my blog's URL. I am in no way disparaging large sisters in this post! Big butts or little butts, blue-black or high yellow, straight or gay, young or old--I do not measure the content of my sisters' and brothers' characters by the packages they happen to come in. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2134 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
prettybabygirl, you're a newcomer to this board, so you apparently don't know the history of some of the nasty exchanges that occur here. You somehow have the impression that I just start calling people names out of the blue. More often than not, when I call somebody a name, it's because I'm returning the favor. You seem clueless in regard to the profanity laced tirades Kola has unleashed on me. And my old adversary, badmamyjama/justwrite couldn't jump into this discussion fast enough so she could start calling me and Baby Girl a bunch of names, while making a lot of wild accusations. So before you start making references to what I have said, know where you're coming from. And by the way, I find your screen name of "prettybabygirl" very revealing. It bespeaks of a person who is image-conscious and preoccupied with looks. But of course a person as enlightened and objective as you would never be guilty of superficiality. Hardly a characteristic to be expected anybody who works for the catalog that is Essence. And yes, I chose the screen name of "Cynique" because I am cynical. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique said: Why is the idea of people blending for the greater good so repugnant to you? Is that what's happening Cynique? Are we black people the "greater bad" I never said I was against anything. I just agreed when this whole thing first started that Kola Boof made excellent points about color prejudice, because I've experienced that to be the truth as a dark skinned person surrounded by dark skinned people with light people always on top. My wife is light skinned and she was the one who first brought this unfairness out of the closet in our home. I feel very bad that I hurt Linda's feelings, because I did not mean to do that or to alienate her. But she needs to remember that black people are a race of people. We existed as people "before" we were conquered and raped, which created light skinned brothers and sisters. What on earth makes her or any of you think that we aim to vanish from this land and be replaced by a bunch of lighter skinned mixed people? On that, I agree with PBG and Kola, the writer's opinions, and frankly, after growing up with my mother who was dark and hated dark skin, I am glad that black women like Kola and PBG exist. Hopefully, they will raise a new attitude in black youth. Linda, It doesn't matter who was or is at fault for light skinned people being born and being given preference. What matters is that black people should not support their own annihilation, and not because of your color, Cynique, but because of your posts, I find it hard to even consider you a black person by the things that you're saying here. I don't think the disappearance of my race would be for the "greater good", and I don't think that God ever intended such a holocaust. If anything the White Man's "greater good" is being fullfilled through the creation of a mixed race that is separate from black folks. We will have no choice but to separate, because we clearly have different agendas. But before I sign off, I want to thank you ladies, because I am almost 60 years old and this is the first time in my entire life that I have ever, and I mean ever, been able to discuss this subject so openly and with such opposing viewpoints and feedback. This kind of discussing, I believe, would help our people a lot to come up with solutions and to stake out a vision of where we are going as black folks and how we can stick together and make ourselves one. Like Kola, I cannot accept a mixed race world. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 105 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
OH, one more thing: Speaking of Essence magazine, What about the big sale? Was this the business equivalent of "marrying White"? Or just business? http://www.btimes.com/News/article/article.asp?NewsID=3634&sID=3 | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2136 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
But, Evangelist, the greater good requires everybody to make sacrifices. And if you can't accept a mixed-race world, why would you expect a mixed-race world to accept you? In the throes of your seething anger, you divest yourself of flexibility. But it's not my place to try and convince you of anything. I just like to make people confront their inner demons. I still say, time brings change. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi Cynique! You're right. I don't know your history with Kola and I only came in on the part where you were hacking her to bits. Naturally, because I've been emailing her and reading her for about a month, I feel intensely loyal and in awe of her. Perhaps later, I will come down to earth, but for now, she is just so interesting and so unbelievably sweet. I did email Kola this morning asking her what's the story with you and she emailed me back about an hour ago. She wrote: "Cynique's name is Connie. She's a brilliant writer in Chicago, but she just never liked or accepted me. We clash, but I respect her." She also said only good things about Linda and told me that she mentioned Linda's book "Althea" in her own book, "Long Train". I flipped to the "Acknowledgements Page", and sure enough, she called Linda Watkins her "twin sister" (which is VERY confusing), author of "Althea". So this is why I can't figure out why everyone thinks she's against them for being light? Part 2 I will let you in on a secret. Part of my "identifying" with Kola on this specific issue right now is because ESSENCE MAGAZINE has declined to let me do a story on Kola. My editor basically told me that Kola is "too black" (in the political sense) and that middle class African American sisters aren't ready for someone as "flamboyant" as her. After that, I was told by another sister who writes freelance that she had tried to do Kola for ESSENCE and that they're waiting on white media to stamp her forehead before they will touch her. Another girlfriend told me that BLACK ISSUES BOOK REVIEW recently did a whole story on Kola, but chickened out and didn't run it. So you can imagine how pissed I was, as an up and coming journalist to feel that I've found this fascinating woman, a brilliant writer on the level of Alice Walker or James Baldwin--I kid you not, and that intelligent black women are saying she's too radical for us to talk about. Then I come here and some girl named "BABYGIRL" is telling Kola that she should go back to Africa with her views and opinions! So I named myself "PRETTY" Baby Girl--to spite the other girl. ***Smile**** I have not read as many of your posts, Cynique, but I really truly relate to a lot of what Yvette and Mahoghany have to say. They sound like fellow writers and they're very levelheaded and because they express most of my own views, I have tried repping the opposing sides. It's all good. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yvette, I am a freelancer. Not privvy to or responsible to ESSENCE politics, but if you read my last post, you will get some MAJOR INSIGHT into what the editorial "think-set" is like. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 130 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist: I feel very bad that I hurt Linda's feelings, because I did not mean to do that or to alienate her. But she needs to remember that black people are a race of people. We existed as people "before" we were conquered and raped, which created light skinned brothers and sisters. Linda: Don't worry, you didn't hurt my feeling at all. I am use to the anger and resentment that has been discussed here. Evangelist: What on earth makes her or any of you think that we aim to vanish from this land and be replaced by a bunch of lighter skinned mixed people? Linda: Where oh where did I ever say that. All I have ever said is that black is black, we are all one race. The segegation comes from individuals like your self and Kola that feel light skinned people are not black enough to be considered positive representation of blacks...you feel insecure in your selfs, in your skins and in your minds. Weren't you the one that married a light skinned women by loving her 40% and 60% because of her color. What shades of children were you trying to produce, obviously not dark. Yet you scold me. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2137 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
A verrrry interesting article, Yvettep. I love your "marrying white" analogy. Thanks, I needed that. LOL | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 131 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
PBG: She also said only good things about Linda and told me that she mentioned Linda's book "Althea" in her own book, "Long Train". I flipped to the "Acknowledgements Page", and sure enough, she called Linda Watkins her "twin sister" (which is VERY confusing), author of "Althea". So this is why I can't figure out why everyone thinks she's against them for being light? Linda: As I said, Kola and I are not enemies. We are sisters. We just disagree about the classification of skin coloring and the lengths of which she will go to control it. I feel any shade of black is black. Kola, as do many others, consider lighter skinned individuals not black enough to make that claim. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2138 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Thanks a lot, prettybabygirl. Nothing like having my anonymity violated. I can always depend on Kola's big mouth. Nor am I a brilliant writer. Pure flattery. And I'll let you in on a little secret; Kola's favorite way of describing me is "snot-colored". She has also referred to me as being a mongrel and a red ant and a just plain ol nigger. Her pet name for me is Ol Yeller. When she wants to make her point about her favorite subject of colorism she flies off the handle if anything she says is challenged by me. Yes, Kola can be nice and civil. When it suits her. And so can I. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 21 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
Pretty: What made me come on here, my sister, is that this person BabyGirl told Kola she should go back to Africa. Babygirl: I did NOT tell Kola to go back to Africa. That is how you and Kola chose to interpret my comments to her because you did not like the questions I was asking. I read Kola's rantings and frustrations over American blacks refusing to see things her way and to paraphrase, asked if that was how she felt, then why didn't she take her rantings to Sudan where they might be better received, because clearly they have as many issues there that need a strong black woman to be in the trenches speaking out on. And I asked the questions of Kola that I asked to better understand Kola and her thinkings. But it would seem that for Kola and also for you to some degree, if there isn't this instantaneous agreement with your views then you are ready to dismiss whomever you are being challenged by. I said enlighten me, teach me and you refused because you perceived my challenge to be too arrogant and offending for you to bother with. I have great respect for Kola's passion. Her strong personality makes her a formidable force. And Kola has made some interesting assertions. Many I agree with, and even more that I don't. But then I don't have to, nor do I have to apologize for it, and neither does it suddenly make me "not black". But what I find most interesting is that there are many young people and even some older ones who appear to be blindly hanging on to the words of Kola or others like her with opinions just as passionate without challenging or questioning these rationales because they're identifying with that individual's hurt. There seems to be this blind acceptance because it happened to me too attitude, and I personally believe that to be far more dangerous and detrimental to all of us than whether or not Kola's or anyone elses opinions on race are right or wrong. Kola needs to be challenged, you need to be, Cynique needs to be, I need to be, because without the challenge there is no discussion, no debate, no exchange of ideas and beliefs, and no learning or understanding to be gained. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Prettybaby, I have a question for you "the journalist" that I hope you'll answer and I apologize as I know this is off thread. I have also found Kola to be a fascinating persona, and I found your comments about the media not wanting to "touch" any story about her to be of interest. Aside from the brillance and obvious talent of her writing what continues to intrigue me personally is that when you hear the personal details of Kola's story as told by Kola, those details seem to unravel miserably, be easily refuted, or fail to stand up against stringent examination. Almost immediately after Kola put herself in the public eye she was labeled a liar and a fraud and her credibility was severely damaged. Even on this board, history has shown that attempts to pin Kola down to specific details about certain issues, brings out her conspiracy against Kola theory because she's a woman and black, and this and that, but no answers. Now, I know firsthand that Kola is a very charismatic personality and people find her engaging. And initially I felt it was her flamboyance and radical-thinking that made the media take notice of her in the first place, until of course they started verifying Kola's facts, and flamboyant suddenly became pathologial and radical became just plain crazy. Aside from your personal admiration of Kola, is it possible that the black media is avoiding her not because of her flamboyance (because clearly we like flamboyance) but because she's been deemed a potential liability too risky to touch and risk being embarrassed by? Most especially since it would seem that white media has had no issues questioning her credibilty and integrity? | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
BabyGirl, Once again your entire tone is contemptuous, sarcastic and mean-spirited. Also, ill-informed, because White Media has covered Kola Boof and has verified almost all of her claims. FOX NEWS, which has the largest network of fact-checkers of any news organization, a highly CONSERVATIVE network that set out to "discredit" her story, ended up featuring Kola Boof and was able to confirm all of it. Kola was introduced on the show, her facts were presented as FACTS, not as "alleged facts", but as facts, and FOX NEWS introduced her by listing the facts they were able to confirm. I have watched the entire interview 3 times, so I know. For my own proposed ESSENCE story, Kola told me that she went through 3 exhausting weeks of FOX fact-checkers just to be interviewed on camera for 4 minutes by FOX NEWS. She was also booked on Connie Chung's CNN show, went through a week of fact-checking, but she pulled out after they insisted that her then 5 year old son be on the show. The New York Post, rag or not, also confirmed and reported Kola Boof's story. She was featured in articles in that newspaper five different times and was also in The New York Observer, whose fact-checkers were also able to find proof of her facts. But BEFORE all of this, mind you, operative word "before"--The New York Times jumped the gun and did a story about her that did not include her and that completely backfired. If you read the story today, then much of their reporting immediately comes undone, because (1) she is not a "fictional internet personality" who no one has ever seen (2) Derrick Bell, Deng Ajak and Alicia Banks all complained that they had been "misquoted" by the TIMES (3) Even Troy Johnson, owner of this site, talked about the banal questions that the reporter asked him and (4) an interview with Kola Boof does not appear in the article--she is quoted only one time saying she is "a conniving person and a prostitute"--something she says that she never said and would never say about herself. Of course, several months later--Kola's claims about the Sudan were confirmed, a report that was presented at the U.N. confirmed that a Sharia Court in Khartoum had ordered her beheaded, just as she said, that report is online actually, and Prince Fabrizzio Ruspoli of Morocco confirmed that she had lived for 6 months at his estate with Osama Bin Laden. Much of the media's nastiness and hesitance to report stories about Kola Boof comes from Kola's previously CURSING OUT the editors, writers at major newspapers and from the "ettiquette" and "tastes" of the journalistic committees themselves----and also the fact that she doesn't grant interviews very often, especially to big operations that she fears like ESSENCE. I would ask YOU why well respected major figures like Joe Madison, Netanyahu, Keith Boykin, Derrick Bell and Chinweizu have all publicly disclosed their close friendships with her since you so smugly described her as a gargoyle. I can also vouch that Kola Boof has turned down interviews with Ms. Magazine, JANE, People, US, BET NEWS, Hard Copy, Extra, VIBE, Good Morning America----because she's a controller and has to have "final say", which of course, she's not big enough to demand final say, and for those reasons, she isn't as visible as she should be. People in media like "flamboyance", but they don't like black women who tell the truth about our dirty laundry, loud and open out in public--as Kola does. FOX NEWS rushed her off the air, in fact, when she began to argue that Osama Bin Laden is a "white man". You should read the article she did with AFRICANA, which was where I first really heard of her. My guess is that when people look back on her in a historical context, the "underreporting" is going to add to her cache as an outlaw figure who nobody wanted to embrace and because of those perceptions that she was treated unfairly by press, black and white, many people and key publications will have egg on their face, especially black women's mag "ESSENCE" and black literary journal "BLACK ISSUES", because they weren't relevant enough to say something about Kola Boof, who is clearly Happen'n. She's already like this major urban legend and because she's invisible and underreported and such a fabulous writer, people see her as an underdog and they really love her. EXHALE Any other questions you have about Kola, please wait for her to come back, because I don't much care for your nastiness and I'd rather she speak for herself. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2139 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Thank goodness you're giving it a rest, prettybabygirl! Instead of working as a freelance writer, why don't you just hire yourself out as a publicist for Kola Boof! You know what a publicist is, don't you? A flunky whose job is to do damage control and sanitize any rumor that might be true about the celeb they work for. And it's irrelelvant that you find what Baby Girl had to say sarcastic and mean-spirited and comtemptuous, and that you don't care for her nastiness. Boo-Hoo. Maybe others don't care for your Kola blitz or for your frenetic attempt to canonize her. Just because you're a fan doesn't mean everybody else has to suck up to her. Let you tell it, everyone is wrong but Kola. I sure don't want to read the article you plan to do on her. It will be too biased. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 158 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: |
If anyone from Essence magazine were to stop by here, they might find it very interesting that a freelancer is signing her posts with the name of a magazine she doesn't work for. Can you say "professional suicide"? Curiouser and curiouser... | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Pretty: Once again your entire tone is contemptuous, sarcastic and mean-spirited. Babygirl: Once again, a question you don't like and it's suddenly "mean-spirited"? Perhaps instead of trying to "spite" me you should have named yourself "Little Girl" because for an alleged professional that's how you're acting and as an alleged "journalist" I would think it would be your responsibility to examine every angle of any story, if for no other reason than to CYA. But then you as well are free to interpret things as you will. And I found your response interesting, most especially when you got past that "your not playing fair and you're being mean" complex. And undertand that I asked my question because for as just as many sources that claim her legit there are many, many more that say she isn't. I appreciate your response. Now I am adequately bored with the subject of Kola. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2321 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
*WHEW!* And I thought that I was longwinded. HAHA! | ||
| Rustang Newbie Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 24 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
I guess I could go ahead and throw my two cents worth into the 'shades of black' thing. First of all,I don't recall ever having seen a place on a form to check 'high yellow' or 'redbone'.It was always Caucasian,Asian,Black,Hispanic,Native American/Eskimoe or Other.Maybe it's the 'Other' box.That there seems to be a bias in favor of those of lighter complexion nobody really questions.Why that is would turn out to be an interesting study.I think that it's a combination of a couple of factors.When I was a kid a mixed couple was not something that you saw very often amongst the 'regular' people.The stars would be involved in that sort of thing because they had the resources and celebrity to make it work,but Joe Average,black carpenter wouldn't date a white woman for obvious reasons,most notably that the couple would get their brains beat out every time they showed up in public.At least that's how it was in the south.Attitudes about that started to ease up some,so you started to see more of it because of the new availability of the 'forbidden fruit'.In the early days of TV the only blacks that one would see would be in the most subservient roles imaginable.That also started to ease up a bit.Many shows from the 60s are still seen as reruns today.Many others are not,though.I'm sure that some of you remember a show called Have Gun,Will Travel.This is a show that isn't seen very often these days.The reason for that being that the main character,Paladin,had an asian 'man friday',much like Hop Sing in Bonanza.Unlike Hop Sing,who had a name,Paladin's associate was referred to merely as 'Hey Boy'.This was a very popular show.But the producers of TV shows were phasing actors of color in slowly.The transition started with black people that were very similar to white people,just a little darker,so that the white audience could relate to them.And then there was Archie Bunker.The first season of All In The Family had ole Arch' being pretty raw.Many blacks(and wops,dagos,spics,kikes and everyone else that Archie ahd unleashed his venom upon)took offense to this character.Nobody in mainstream white america really gave a shit about that,but what did bother them was this.Carroll O'Conner had held up a huge mirror to america and said"You see this?It doesn't look a bit better coming from you." and a lot of white folks got offended.That's when Norman Lear got pressed into taking it down a couple of notches.There was also that time that Capt. Kirk kissed Lt. Uhuru on Star Trek.Oooooweeee!There's gonna be BIG trouble following this.And there was.But the point is that it is only natural for people to gravitate towards the 'ideal standard' that they saw on TV as a kid.Who's standard?White TV producer's standard.If you slice out this particular moment on the time line it looks like a much larger problem than it does if you view it as a point along the swinging pendulum's path. Individuals don't much care for what the demographical analysis says that they should do.People are going to go with what seems to them to be the best choices available as individuals.Where it will lead remains to be seen,but the pendulum will continue to swing. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 106 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Speaking of "a little flava": Interesting addition to this discussion, via Negrophile (http://www.negrophile.com/phile/articles/does_not_want_this_new_information_to_c hange_his_identity.html), from a subscription only NYT article: [...] "Everyone wants to take the test, even students who think they are 100 percent one race or another, and almost every one of them wants to discover something, that they're 1 percent Asian or something. It's a badge in this multicultural world," he said. About half of the 100 students tested this semester were white, he said, "And every one of them said, 'Oh man, I hope I'm part black,' because it would upset their parents. "That's this generation," he said. "People want to identify with this pop multiracial culture. They don't want to live next to it, but they want to be part of it. It's cool." The tests also help to deepen conversations about race, he said. "When I teach I try to demonstrate to students how complex race and ethnicity are," Dr. Richards said. "My secondary goal is to improve race relations, and when people discover that what they thought about themselves is not true - 'I thought I was black, but I'm also Asian and white' - it leads them to have a different kind of conversation about race. It leads them to be less bigoted, to ask the deeper questions, to be more open to differences." [...] | That's part of what Dr. Samuel Richards, who teaches Penn State's Sociology 119, Race and Ethnic Relations class, had to say in Emma Daly's registration-required New York Times article "DNA Tells Students They Aren't Who They Thought" | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 107 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Just read the whole article--Very worthwhile, I think. Also, Monday I am going to attend this conference: "Proposals for the Responsible Use of Racial and Ethnic Categories in Biomedical Research: Where Do We Go from Here?" (http://www.lifesci.consortium.umn.edu/conferences/categories.php) Will let you all know how it went! | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
None of this is new. The Cotton Club days, the jazz music days and the Motown 60's days proved that White Kids always wanted to appropriate "cool" from black kids. They wanted to look white but be black, hence their "multiracial" heroes Vin Diesel and Mariah Carey. Again, blackness itself is not allowed. What is it called now? Wiggers? This article still doesn't do a thing to disprove White Supremacy since an invisible single drop of DNA is akin to owning a pet rock and the actual dark blacks themselves are still just as invisible as Ralph Ellison wrote in "The Invisible Man". Multiracial groups don't do a damn thing to represent black people. How is any of this relevant? Fads come and go, but for niggers, White is always right. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique you tickle me. You think I'm a Minister just because my name is "Evangelist". I'm a blacksmith and a bartender. Evangelist was my nickname given to me by the pretty young things in the 60's, because of the "spiritual healing" I used to put on them. I ordered Kola Boof's books a few days ago and they came this morning, so you all won't hear from me for a while. Love these nude shots, she's a substantial looking woman. My wife calls her "fierce". Bye now and may we all someday be together. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 108 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Evangelist: How is any of this relevant? Did you read the whole article? Particularly telling to me are the views of the "bi-racial" folks who choose to self-identify (culturally, politically, otherwise) as "Black." I hear some here saying that such a person could never "really" be Black, even if they wanted to. (And even if most Whites are not nearly as atuned to finer distinctions of shades as many of us Blacks often are, and thus classify them as Black.) "Multiracial groups don't do a damn thing to represent black people."--I encourage you to test your own DNA and let us know your percentage. Will you be "non-multiracial" enough? Is someone who is 74% "Black" based on DNA "more Black" than someone who is 72%? Did you know that someone who shakes out as 74% "Black" can look visibly "more Black" than someone who tests 84%? Who, then, would be "really Black"? Who chooses? Who gets to decide? And further, to repeat myself: what should we do with the folks who [whover] decides is "not really Black"--even if we could agree on who should do the choosing and how it should be done? Should we somehow ban them from the benefits of Blackness? Do we somehow convince the majority culture to stop treating them as Black folk? "White is always right"--yeah, nothing new here and I totally agree that this is a prevailing message. But: How "white" is white enough for White folks to treat someone as "not Black"--especially if you are not a Tiger Woods or a Mariah Carey, but a regular old non-celebrity? Since some lighter folks might make the cut (e.g., Nikki) and some darker ones may not (e.g., Quincy Jones? See other thread), how would we tell who has been "certified Black" and who has not? Perhaps a white strip of cloth sewn to the sleeves of their clothes... Please, someone tell me what any of this Blacker-than-thou stuff serves? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2141 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
No wonder you relate to Kola Boof, Evangelist. You're a phony who misrepresented himself. Now I know why I had a hard time taking you seriously. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2322 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
This really is NOT about color, or even race. Those are just smokescreens to the REAL issue. This is about POWER. Those who have the power dictate to those who don't what is and is not preferable and superior(i.e., "Might makes right."). And the powerful will always reinforce that which embellish what they feel best represents THEM, whether it's color, art, science...and beauty. Its is only when Black foks of ALL ethnicity/geography have more power that we will have any hope of resolving what's been haggled over here. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
I agree with Yvette 100% and think this article was extraordinarily on point. ** Those like BabyGirl, Cynique and Mahoghany, who to my eyes, keep making catty remarks or being unnecessarily sarcastic towards me, I will not answer anymore, because I don't want to come down to that "curiouser" level. God bless. ** Evangelist, I hear you, but I don't think the others do because you're an older man and you're using "jargon" from the 60's and 70's way of speaking, so they're not getting your point. They're hung up on "black comes in all shades" while you're pointing out that it mainly does so, because of the hatred and victimization of verdy dark black people in the first place---therefore, why should they be inclined to celebrate our existense. Something us lighter folks would rather ignore and think--it's a new day, we're here now, everything's ok. It's not ok, because I have been encountering many dark chocolate people who are beginning to hate "light folks" for not being more sensitive to their feelings of being phased out and not honored. Since there's way more darker skins than anybody else, this will probably result in a backlash and even further divide us, because people are not hearing each other, and I have to agree with Kola's original point that it's the darkest of the darkest folks, the invisible ones, who we are traditionally not used to listening to, caring about or acknowledging who may be what Gil S. Heron was referring to when he said, "The Revolution will not be televised." I often feel intense prejudice and dislike aimed at me by very dark skinned women, and increasingly, their children, and because I love my blackness and our race so much, I don't understand why. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM wrote: Those who have the power dictate to those who don't what is and is not preferable and superior(i.e., "Might makes right."). And the powerful will always reinforce that which embellish what they feel best represents THEM, whether it's color, art, science...and beauty. ** Hey, ABM! Kola Boof in so in love with you!! What have you done to her? Anyway.....(**Smile**) A wonderful example of this POWER dynamic you speak about was the essay about the 12 College Professors, all either high yellow or nearly white, that went to GHANA to speak to college students there. These upper class light women never looked among themselves and said, "We should have some dark sister Professors at HBC's". For just the reason you mentioned. They being very light skinned and privileaged in the Black College system were the ones with power and preference. So they upheld that power for themselves and did not acknowledge the discrimination being wielded at darker sisters. Alice Walker writes about being in her dorm at SPELMAN when almost all the students were very light to nearly white and they did not to room with a very dark skinned student who had put with them. They confided in Alice that she was as dark as they could go. It's in her book "In Search of Our Mother's Gardnens". This is the reason why many of these dark people are reluctant to accept very light people, because once the light folk realize their privileage, they join the general society in wielding their POWER. What you think? | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2323 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Prettybabygirl, Yes, lightskinned Blacks tend to enjoy many socio-economic advantages over those of darker Blacks. But it’s pointless to castigate fair Blacks because THEY are not the source of the problem. Whatever favor they have is simply a byproduct of a system that labels us all as enduring some level of inferiority. Most of us just want to eke out SOME kind of life for ourselves. And for Blacks, no matter our skintone, that’s going to be difficult. So, you use what you have to the best of your abilities, often hardly cognizant of life’s imbalances. It’s not that you don’t care. It’s just that we ALL are struggling with something and feel as though if we stop to see the flow of traffic, we may be run down. I think it best we try to find how we can be together rather than why we should be split apart. Prettybabygirl: "Hey, ABM! Kola Boof in so in love with you!! What have you done to her?" ABM: Oh Ho! Wouldn't you like to know! Hehe! PS: And whenever I see these intramural arguments about skincolor, I think about these statics: Black people have over 13% of the US population and LESS than TWO PERCENT of its real wealth (And that includes Oprah, P.Diddy, Cosby, Bob Johnson and Michael Jordan). Then I think what the F*#$ are we arguing about anyway. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 159 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM: PS: And whenever I see these intramural arguments about skincolor, I think about these statics: Black people have over 13% of the US population and LESS than TWO PERCENT of its real wealth (And that includes Oprah, P.Diddy, Cosby, Bob Johnson and Michael Jordan). Then I think what the F*#$ are we arguing about anyway. Mah: A-men. | ||
| Babygirl Newbie Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
Pretty:Those like BabyGirl, Cynique and Mahoghany, who to my eyes, keep making catty remarks or being unnecessarily sarcastic towards me, I will not answer anymore, because I don't want to come down to that "curiouser" level. Babygirl: Sweetie, you make me smile and want to shake you in the same breath. You keep taking this personally and it's not about being personal, its about the debate. It's about hearing all sides of every view and hopefully being open-minded enough to either learn something or teach something and to get there, doesn't mean everyone has to be sweet and kind and nice all the time. Pretty: Evangelist, I hear you, but I don't think the others do because you're an older man and you're using "jargon" from the 60's and 70's way of speaking, so they're not getting your point. Babygirl: Now that's funny because I'd venture that more of us are probably closer in age to Evangelist than we are to you. And we get his point perfectly. We just may not agree with it for very different reasons based on very different experiences. He's speaking from his, other's are speaking from theirs. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2326 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Babygirl, Smart people can disagree about MANY things. But I think what you (and Cynique/Linda, I suppose) fail to realize is Kola is appreciated by many because she has the intestinal fortitude to take very public and controversial positions on the matter of skincolor and beauty, especially with respect to Black women. She may not have the SOLUTION to what's been argued here. No one does. But she does help to set in motion the possibility of such being achieved via allowing all of the issues mentioned above to be vented. It is THAT which REALLY draws people in, not her somewhat outlandish presentation (although that too is FUN to watch ). You may differ with her style and content of her rhetoric. But Kola's courage and eloquence on these matters are irrefutable. PS: I am currently reading Kola's "Flesh In the Devil". It's like a dream I never I had set to pen. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2327 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Correction: Kola's Book is "Flesh AND the Devil". | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 160 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Pretty: Evangelist, I hear you, but I don't think the others do because you're an older man and you're using "jargon" from the 60's and 70's way of speaking, so they're not getting your point. Babygirl: Now that's funny because I'd venture that more of us are probably closer in age to Evangelist than we are to you. And we get his point perfectly. We just may not agree with it for very different reasons based on very different experiences. He's speaking from his, other's are speaking from theirs. Mah: Precisely. Personally, I appreciate the opportunity to be "schooled" by those who have more first-hand experience and knowledge than I have, but whether I agree with them or not is a separate matter. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2142 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
ABM and Baby Girl, I just gave both of your posts 4 stars because you said what needed to be told to prettybabygirl who resorts to attributing any remarks that rankle her vanity, as being "catty." I also can't believe she said that people couldn't understand Evangelist's points because he was using terms from the 1960s. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2328 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, Thanks for the stars. But don't misunderstand. Were I to take sides here, I'd choose the one that includes PBG and Kola. Sure everyone lives a life that's distinctly their own. But in a macroscopic sense, skintone makes a HUGE difference in the fortunes of Black people. And a lot of it is so subtle that those who are benefiting from the differences often do not notice them. For instance, I think what often happens in school is darkskinned Black children are often subtly, if not overtly, mistreated by MOST White school teachers. Over time, the academic performance of the darker kids erode. The lighterskinned kids succeed. Fast forward 20 years, and you have the dark kids living a standard of life inferior to those of their lighter counterparts. And those differences are marital, health, beauty, etc. in nature. Over time, lightskin is represented by/of success. And darker skin is not. The lighter foks are now, to a degree beneficiaries/supporters of the status quo...which, of courses, subjugates the darker/poorer Blacks. This is NOT all of what causes the problems we belabor. This issues are much more complex/varied than this. But, if you can, think back to your own experiences in school. I'll wager MOST of you either experienced/witnessed instances of this play out over time. Are the ligherskinned Blacks the primary source of the problem? No. Are they helping to maintain it. In MANY instances, Yes. Still. I just think in the final analysis, all of this is mute when you don't have the POWER to effect/maintain a better system...assuming, of course, we could agree to what such should be to begin with. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2146 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I, myself, have never said that color discrimination doesn't exist, ABM. I have only postulated that since color is such an abrasive issue in the black community and there are no signs of this problem disappearing, if everyone was the same color the problem wouldn't be there. Then we could all move on to find other ways to discriminate against each other. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM: I am currently reading Kola's "Flesh In the Devil". It's like a dream I never I had set to pen Babygirl: Clearly, there is no denying that she a gifted writer. I have enjoyed her work and the places she is able to take you with her fiction. ABM: Still. I just think in the final analysis, all of this is mute when you don't have the POWER to effect/maintain a better system...assuming, of course, we could agree to what such should be to begin with. Babygirl: God, I love it when you preach, brother! | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 2333 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, Touché, My Sister. Touché. Babygirl, Oh. Dat’s nuthin, you should see me...well...ask Kola. | ||
| Linda "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Linda Post Number: 132 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yes: Kola/Evangelist/Prettybabygirl Why don't you tell us all about ABM since you are using all of these names to once again fool everybody. Now get back on your board and obey the rules Troy gave you to follow and yes-he knows it's you already. So don't waste time typing up that email saying how you are once again wronged. LOL | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2149 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Zounds! My suspicions have been confirmed! I didn't want to say anything for fear of being labled crazy, myself, but it was starting to get pretty fishy to me. ROTFLMAO. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 162 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: Zounds! My suspicions have been confirmed! I didn't want to say anything for fear of being labled crazy, myself, but it was starting to get pretty fishy to me. ROTFLMAO. Mah: Me three. Which is why--not that I owe anyone an explanation--I was less than civil in my responses. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Huh? What are you guys talking about? We're all the same just because we agree? I beg to differ. I think we're all very different. **Smile** | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 149 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
OK, Get off my lap PrettyBabyGirl. That's enough. I CONFESS. ______________ LOL and I really had Mahoghany going!! She was bout ready to slap the cowlicks out my hair. LOOOOOL I luv you girl!!! You got me on that "freelancer" shit didn't you?? LLLOOOOOOLLL. Girl, I was roll'n when you said "career suicide". Linda, I love you. Every since I read "ALTHEA". That was really good. Cynique, your little revelation earlier has had me in prayer and meditation all day. Asking the Zarpunni Jinns for forgiveness. How could I have known you were in the WISDOM CIRCLE? You have no idea that you've allowed me to curse my stay on earth. It's an abomination to speak unruly to a Great Mother or Great Father, unless they've done something absolutely horrendous and even then!! Now for years of bickering with you, I have to do a full cleansing. I wish you had told me!!! I could receive curses from the ancestors for not respecting "Ba". Anyway you guys, I hate that BabyGirl bitch. I hope she doesn't come fucking with me, because I am not in the mood for her siditty Mod girl talk'n ass. I had to create those other folks just to keep from getting a migraine dodging her sly put-downs and forked tongue warblings. UGH! | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
How truly sad...and pathetic...that one would be so desperate for attention... | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 150 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
OOH. Speak of the fucking devil. Somebody bring me my shoes so I can hit this bitch in the mouth with one! If I'm so pathetic---you're pathetic by association. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 151 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
You need to get your head out of my fucking ass and talk to someone who cares about what you have to say and think. I really don't like you, don't have anything to say to you and wish you'd turn attention to those who will engage you. To me, you're just a callas that fell off somebody's foot. And now you're stinking up the room. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 28 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
KOLA: I had to create those other folks just to keep from getting a migraine dodging her sly put-downs and forked tongue warblings. UGH! Babygirl: Why? Because at no point was my challenge a put down. And I thought you, of all people, were big enough, smart enough, wise enough, and strong enough to stand true to who you claim to be. Until just this moment I actually had great respect and even an ounce of admiration for your passion and your gifts. I actually admired your intensity and fire. Now, I am only embarrassed for you, disappointed in you, and genuinely disheartened that the likes of you would even deem to claim to represent what any woman, black or otherwise, should represent. And the reality of this whole situation is that you will be too ignorant to realize what a disservice you have done not only to yourself, but to others who actually believed in you. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
OH EAT MY FUCKING PUSSY BITCH!! You think I give a fuck about getting my Raffle Papers signed by your Crunk-O-Phonic STUDIOUS CHIPMUNK talk'n ass? Go slit your fucking wrists and mail me the bluest vein you got, Baby Boil. Your fucking ass needs to be LANCED. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 153 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Anybody who takes a "message board" that goddamned SERIOUS needs to suck on a joint and CHILL THE FUCK OUT. This is not "MEET THE NATION" or "FACE THE PRESS". This is a message board on the internet. I REFUSE to be a fucking star! Bring me my comb and brush so I can BEP this goddamned NAG in her fucking eyebrows. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 29 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Look in the mirror, Kola. What hurts you most, what angers you to no end, is that the woman you see, will never be the woman you want to be...Me... | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 154 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
You need to leave me the fuck alone. You're starting to look pretty PATHETIC your damned self. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 155 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
OOOOOHHHHHH GOD. At least this bitch gave me one good laugh. "I" want to be "Her". First of all.....who ARE you??????? Why in the hell would I want to be you? I haven't seen one single thing about you that I like, admire, trust or respect. You're just a NAG who deliberately tries to pick my last nerve. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 156 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
BabyGirl claims that "I" just want so bad....to be "HER". WELL......HERE'S BABYGIRL'S RECENT "PROM" PICTURE:  HERE SHE IS when she's staring at her Kola Boof Pictures all over her room walls.  OUUUUuhhhh...she hates that Kola Boof pictures all over her room wall. She hears the voices. WAKE UP...."Kola's Coming."  HERE'S SHE IS AFTER A HARD DAY'S WORK OUT:  THE OLD PARENTS:  Gosh Baby Boil. I'm just so wishing I could be your busted ass. You black enough yet, or still TERMITE-complexioned? Dandruff scratching itchy white PaperBoy chas'n Bugger-eater! | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 157 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
FUCK YOU BITCH. Now go tell TROY about how I welcomed your Snot-Slirp'n ass to AALBC.COM So I can welcome you AGAIN. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 21 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola, glad to see you back, and God help BabyGirl (Wheew!---looks like Yvette should have done that thread on namecalling), but why are you saying that you're me? I did my own posts. What is Linda talking about? Nobody is me but me. | ||
| Prettybabygirl Newbie Poster Username: Prettybabygirl Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Oh, this is awful! You two shouldn't fight like that. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola:First of all.....who ARE you??????? Why in the hell would I want to be you? Babygirl: I am Chayil - a Virtuous woman. I am a woman of Excellance. Proverbs 31:10-29 I am the epitome of what you have wanted desperately to be, but continue, in every aspect of your existance, to fall short of. | ||
| Rustang Newbie Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
It's starting to get weird. It seems to be easy to lose sight of a couple things.This 'shade discrimination' thing is not something that we would have come up with on our own.The technique of divide and conquer is not new.The Romans used it with pretty good results.The Spartans were also pretty good at it.The Spartans understood one thing,though, that our present day ruling class seems to have overlooked.The Spartans had a rule that essentially said don't kick the same ass too often.You'll make a warrior out of a farmer.Our small ruling class continues to sit up in their fortress,insulated from the general population,like Lucifer and offer suggestions that we might not have otherwise considered,presenting us with an opportunity to make a horrible mistake while they continue to accumulate the wealth of the entire planet.Arrange to have one segment of the group do marginally better than the rest and the bulk of the ones in the remainder of the group will resent the hell out of it.They will take that resentment out on the ones in their own community rather than the ones that orchestrated the situation to begin with because the members of their community are far more visible to them.It's something that they can actually get their hands on.And we bite like a big catfish every time and snipe each other at every opportunity as a group.In the final analysis there are only two types of people in the world.It isn't the black and the white,the rich and the poor or the pious and the infidel.It's 'Us' and 'Them'.'Them' controls all of the resources,but there's a whole bunch of 'Us'.If someone questions this simplistic evaluation,consider this.After the break up of the Soviet Union a couple of things happened that,if the world was composed of many different factions,you wouldn't have expected to see.The year after that break up the United States increased it's 'defense' budget to the largest it had ever been and has continued to increase every year since.The disappearance of america's only public opponent should have caused a reduction in spending in arms.Also,right after the collapse,american and ex-soviet scientists started working together to develop even worse stuff to drop on woman and children.Who are they preparing to defend themselves from?The waaaay too many with waaaaay too litle that constitutes 'Us' in my opinion.These people that are ruling the world are intelligent,and they are also quite insane.That would account for the obsession with developing weapons that can wipe out millions in the blink of an eye.They figure that eventually they'll be needing that sort of thing.If we can set aside our insignificant differences of opinion on things that don't really add up to much anyway and focus on some unity around the things that matter we can bring about lasting change and avoid the coming holocaust.I understand that it would be easier to catch the moon in a teacup than it would be to get black folks to set aside their differences,but it is something that we need to do in my opinion.Things are about to get real ugly real quick in the world.Just my opinion though.I could be wrong. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 158 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Babygirl: I am Chayil - a Virtuous woman. I am a woman of Excellance. Proverbs 31:10-29 I am the epitome of what you have wanted desperately to be, but continue, in every aspect of your existance, to fall short of. KOLA: Awwwww. Chayil, 0 Studious ChipMunk of thine college dorm in San Francisco--take thy HOLY BIBLE and thy KORAN and thy TALMUD and READER'S DIGEST and CAUCASIA---O Thou Virtuous Woman----and cover them in vaseline and ram them up your fucking asshole. I have....NEEVVVVER....wanted to be a virtuous woman or some dimwitted slave bitch chained to MEN'S RELIGIONS. You think that's virtuous? Shit, I call it being PIMPED. And here I thought you were about to announce that you're Grace Jones, Madonna, Winnie Mandela, Angela Bassett, Meryl Streep, Cynique, Frida Khalo, Toni Morrison, Oprah Winfrey, Alice Walker----somebody that "I" would want to be. You're talking about some man-worshipping slag from the old days. I'd rather be Isis, Olukun or Nzingha. Not some humming page turner with a candle in front of her forehead and chaste lips awaiting fart signals from the wind. No wonder you can't keep from sniffing around my ass like some impolite mutt. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2151 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Rustang, I agree with your "us" against "them" scenario. It runs parallel with the "boogey man" syndrome. America always has to have a faceless menace who threatens its freedom and who unites the country behind the leaders charged with confronting this ever-present danger. For years it was Communism. Now, it's terrorism. Of course this does kind of conjure up the picture of a secret conspiracy of sinister white men, huddled together in a room, figuring out ways to manipulate events, in order to maintain power and exert control. As for African Americans resolving their difference, the legacy of slavery still resonates in the black community, and the plantation pecking order that revolved around color is still in tact. It appears to be a situation that won't be resolved because people just naturally act in their own best interest. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 2152 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, Baby Girl I'm finding it interesting to be a spectator instead of of a participant in a confrontation with Kola. I always thought she had an unfair advantage because she has access to a gallery of bizarre pictures. (Why do I get the feeling that you don't consider her a challenge?) | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: Why do I get the feeling that you don't consider her a challenge? Babygirl: Because I don't and she isn't. For Kola to be a true challenge she would have to do a whole lot better than spew dribble and venom, and post images that have absolutely no relevance on anything. Just because she's yelling loudly doesn't mean she's saying anything worth hearing. All I feel for Kola is pity because I sense that she is channeling a mountain of hurt where ever and toward whom ever she can. That has always come easier for her than actually dealing with her true issues. If you call her a liar, or hurt her feelings, then Kola screams, yells, and calls you names so she can make herself feel better. That works for Kola. Kola instantly lashes out at anyone she perceives as being EMPOWERED, because she isn't. Those of us who are comfortable in our own skin, with our hearts, loving our lives and all else be damned, actually scare Kola because she truly doesn't know what that feels like. Kola is still that little girl who was abandoned when she should have been loved and its those emotions and that fear and hurt that most controls Kola. Kola's greatest strength is Kola's FICTION. That is where Kola is most empowered and in control, because she can dictate the who, the what, and the whys. Which is why Kola can almost single-handedly carry on a discussion by herself, utilizing a cast of Kola-characters that she has created and given life to. That is why most of what Kola states can never be verified or seems less than credible because for the most part, it isn't. It's pathological. It's Kola's fiction. And most of us understand that unless one is interested in being committed to a sanitarium, fiction can't last forever and at some point, reality has to regain control. But for her, when that happens, Kola can't handle it because it speaks to her greatest weaknesses, and then she spews. So how could such a sad, misdirected, broken soul ever be considered a true challenge? | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 159 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Oh Bwa Bwa Bwa. Mean, evil deranged KOLA. All Kola has.... All Kola is..... All Kola blah... AS IF KOLA GIVES A FUCK about the snide ruminations of some INTERNET Psycho-bitch whose first name.... whose first name is "Baby". Spend the rest of your day....TALKING ABOUT ME.....because I will not be "talking about you." | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
LOL at Cynique and Linda. That's cute. Greetings "BabyGirl". You sure do seem obsessed with Kola Boof. You seem to spend a lot of time thinking about her and formulating this in depth analyses. It's becoming like a fatal attraction, kiddo. What's your obsession with her? Why are you named "Baby" and "Girl"? Is it because you're young? | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 160 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
THANK YOU, Evangelist!!! What's it been now---a week---that she's been explaining WHO I AM to everyone. Talk about arrogance. Oh, and claiming that she cares about, feels for me, wants to have a question/discussion with me. But all she's done is attacked, picked and instigated. Of course, she can't back her shit up. She's no doubt a jealous HACK who's upset because everybody's been praising my work, my talent as a writer, etc. And for some idiot reason, she expects me to come on here and be a STAR, a WRITER, rather than have fun talking to people on a message board. She's lucky we're not in person, because her face would be HELLA JACKED UP by now, fucking with me. Talking all that SHIT.....like I owe her some goddamned explanation. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 32 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: |
Drinking a little early in the day, aren't you Kola? Makes it kind of hard to keep up with who's who and who said what cause in one breath you admit to your cast of characters-- "I had to create those other folks just to keep from getting a migraine dodging her sly put-downs and forked tongue warblingsto spite me", and now you've got 'em (Evangelist and Pretty) having a conversation with you again. I believe I told you once before, Dear, alchohol is NOT your friend... And I am jealous, Kola. You're so right. I yearn to live a life of pure fantasy where I have been the sex toy of military criminals, proudly claim to have prostituted myself for the good of my country, been adored by radical political organizations that call me cheap one week 'cause they don't want to give me a medal at non-existent award programs so I can go back to 'em next week 'cause they still love me. I yearn to enlighten people with the wealth of my most colorful, expletive-filled vocabulary with PHOTOS--many, many uplifting photos so that they can fully understand that I know of what I speak. I am so jealous, Queen Kola, that I could just bust........NOT! I am as through with you, Dear Heart as you are with me, so please, go on, and have the last word...SPEW!...SPEW!...SPEW!, until you are all spewed out, because frankly, at this point my dear, I don't give a damn. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
I think Kola was joking with you BabyGirl, because Kola damn sure ain't posting for me. I post my own posts and I see you can taunt Kola with insults but you couldn't answer the questions that I asked you. Why are you so obsessed with her? Every single post you've made has been about her or to her. Everything you've said has been some kind of "eloquent criticism" or a "put down" about one facet of her life or another. You're like a Fatal Attraction. A broken record. I also asked why is your name "Baby" and "Girl"? In all honesty, I'm starting to think you're the one who wishes she was Kola. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Okay, I'll play. I don't have anything important to do for another ten minutes or so anyway. And so it would seem, neither do you. Evangelist: Why are you so obsessed with Kola? Babygirl: Didn't think I was because I noted eons ago to "Pretty" that I was adequately bored with the subject of Kola. Then Kola, in all her eloquence, made comment of me, which I was in the mood to comment on, and lastly, Cynique asked a question which I felt moved to answer. But, if such is the case and I am obsessed, then why do you, and Pretty, and Kola care and more importantly, seem to feel so threatened? Evangelist: Why is your name "Baby" and "Girl"? Babygirl: You'll have to take that one up with "Big Daddy". Or ask Kola. I'm sure Thomas or Osama or someone called her his 'babygirl' once or twice in her lifetime. And then again, maybe not... | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 24 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
So there it is. Your whole name is based on KOLA being called "baby girl" by Thomas and Osama. I'm sure ABM has called her that. WOW You really do have a fixation. | ||
| Babygirl Regular Poster Username: Babygirl Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
How's it hanging, Evangelist? You really are quite comical, dearie! And if that's the twist you need to put on it, so be it. But my name has nothing to do with what Thomas or Osama or anyone else called Kola. I told you to ask her because she might have had some experience with it to clarify it for you, if my explanation couldn't suffice. And then again, perhaps not, because bottom line they all called her UNWANTED when they were through with her. That's why she's so traumatized now. But me and "Big Daddy" been kickin' it longer than Kola has existed, and he's been callin' me his babygirl since day one. Now, I'm through playing this tired game wit' ya, Kola, I'm sorry, Evangelist. Better things to do and a better man to do them with. | ||
| Evangelist Newbie Poster Username: Evangelist Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Well for all that to be true, you bei'n busy and all, you sure do answer these posts back mighty fast there, lassie. It's like you're HOVER'n over the board. | ||
| Rustang Regular Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Concerning that faceless enemy that you mentioned,Cynique,I was digging around in my attic a couple of weeks ago looking for something and I came across a Life magazine from may13,1957.(I don't throw anything away )In it is an article called cooling off the crisis about the crisis in the middle east.If you replace the word communist with terrorist it could have been written last week.I went ahead and re-read the whole magazine.The politicians were saying that we need to do this and we're going to propose that as they seem to enjoy doing.It was exactly the same stuff that they say now.Verbatim.In the letters to the editor some progressive minded person suggested that,if america would start developing the slums occupied by the southern negroes and provide some vocational training,it would be good for the whole country.What a concept I still hear that suggestion being made on a regular basis with the only difference being now we are southern blacks instead of southern negroes.Many of us are still having a hell of a time finding a job because of the lack of marketable skills.I've pretty much had a job since that magazine was published,but many are not so fortunate.They've been handing us that same tired line of rhetoric for at least 50 years and we keep buying into it,as if they are saying something new.I don't get it.Maybe I've just gone all crazy and senile or something. | ||
| Destined Newbie Poster Username: Destined Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Considering my husband ABM (his new moniker) speaks so highly of this site. I'm suprised to see such venom. Surely, Babygirl, does not portray the Kola I have heard so much about. Maybe I stepped in on a bad string. However, I am a brown skinned woman with hazel eyes. I am often called light and to my mother, I am dark. My older sister is darker and was always the favored child in the family. Coming from a family of artists, the lighter babies were considered watered-down. We don't have as much soul. There were always exceptions but you definately had to prove yourself worthy of artful and insightful creativity. Those were the folks I grew up around. It was a reverse world. ABM says my writing skills are not that great. Just thought I'd throw a line in. | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 161 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi Destined. It's so wonderful to actually say hello to you. I'm so in awe of you and so thrilled!!! As for this "issue, Colorism" As a matter of fact, in my novel "Flesh and the Devil" that ABM is reading right now, the lead character ROOAMBER is a very lightskinned woman with green eyes and she is beaten and mistreated by her own mother for being "lightskinned". The singer BEYONCE (unfortunately) has shown some interest in playing the character, but I do have to admit that the character looks like her. So I have highlighted in my own literature, that sometimes---though very rarely----the shoe is on the other foot. Still, the reality is, that millions of Dark skinned people, and usually FEMALES are the real "invisible people", "scapegoats" and "bottom people" in our community. ESPECIALLY in America where it's so blatantly obvious. As for BabyGirl, I really and truly don't take this message board seriously. I come here to act up and to act out just like everybody else and to be FREE......and what happens with some people is that they expect you to be PERFECT...to be MORE FAIR THAN OTHERS...to be an ARCHTYPE or to be what they expected of you. So I've totally disappointed BabyGirl, and in the beginning, I tried to acknowledge that and to stop sparring with her and to be the humble one--but she really kept taking pot shots, and SO, I had to knock her the fuck out. I don't like her now and I can't be bothered with her. But I'm so glad you dropped by DESTINED. Your husband and I have become like "Sailor" buddies and big flirts, as you know, but I've always loved the admiration and praise with which he talks about you, and as a feminist, it's always been fun reminding him that my loyalty is to YOU more than him. You have no idea how jealous my children's father, THOMAS, is of ABM. Which is totally ridiculous---but, that's what happens when people around the world become cyber buddies. I wish you had met me a different way, though---than through a BOARD ISSUE. All my praises and welcome to you, sister. Kola | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 109 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Rustang: America is providing vocational education to slum (and barrio and trailer park...) residents: It's called the US Army... | ||
| Kola_boof "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 163 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Oh and DESTINED.... my breasts are 100% God-given, not fake. LOL In fact, since the last photo you saw (which was taken 2 years ago), they've begun to hang considerably. But I do have outrageously beautiful breasts. ABM told me that you said they looked "fake"---LOL. (**Smile**). He also told me the nice things you said about my BOOK!!!! Thank you. (BIG GRIN). I'm so thrilled you liked it. This is really a fun board where people kid, talk shit and act unruly to get through their day jobs. So I'm not truly offended by anyone and I appreciate people speaking what's on their minds. But the KOOL ROOM is my board, not this one. | ||
| Destined Newbie Poster Username: Destined Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Good to hear from you too Kola: As for ABM, I must remind him which topics are pillow talk and which aren't or I'll be shipping him to you directly. I said that it usually takes more than a training bra to keep them at attention like that. (smile) Cyber Buddies are fine however, we all have a line. If he crosses it, that decision with its consequences is his to make. I'm not jealous unless I feel threatened. It's then that I get serious. My mother use to say to us as children. "I may laugh and I may joke, but I don't play." I've adopted this for myself as a black woman, mother, feminist, creator, business woman and wife" Thanks, I'll visit the Kool Room; perhaps it's lighter over there. (No pun intended) | ||
| Rustang Regular Poster Username: Rustang Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2005 Rating: N/A |
Sadly enough,Ivettep,that does seem to be the case.Getting killed and crippled killing and crippling to facilitate Halliburton's theft of the national treasury.I don't remember seeing that on the Army of One commercials.It strikes me as being very odd that the idea of putting personal vendettas on hold and trying to do something about this meets so much opposition or apathy. |
