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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2065
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 01:11 am: | 
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What's with this tremendous, ubiquitous outpouring of grief and distress over the death of the 84-year-old head of the Roman Catholic church? Enough, all ready. It's overwhelming. Yes, the Pope was a pious person, the holy father, a religious icon, a simple man who lived a pure life, and resided in what is the equivalent of an ivory tower. He was also a obstinate leader who adhered strictly to the ancient tenets of his church in spite of the fact that this put him at odds with the majority of his followers. He tried to sweep the scandal of pedophile priests under the rug, yet he showed no mercy toward Gays. He spent more time deploring things than alleviating them, especially the AIDS crises in Africa. He maintained his stance against birth control and seemed oblivious to the over-population that is contributing to the crises of world hunger. Nevertheless he is acclaimed the world over for his greatness. So be it. Nobody's perfect. Millions and millions of people of all faiths are crowding in St Peter's Square waiting in looong lines to simply pass by John Paul's bier. With the exception of a few nuns and third world cardinals, however, I haven't seen one black face among the throngs. Why is this? Johnny Cochran's demise certainly generated sadness in the back community. Maybe this was because he had relevance; he truly believed in the right-to-life, and in the right to justice, and the right of the oppressed to have their day in court, he was a genuine purveyor of faith, hope and charity. In the final analysis, I guess because the Pope is a man of God, a kindly paternal figure, in the minds of many, he had actually morphed into God, thereby giving believers a visible symbol of their faith. People everywhere are so desperate for heroes to put on a pedestal and believe in and the Pope filled the bill. Why wouldn't he? He was too sheltered from reality to be anything but above reproach. Anyway, he gone now. Bye, Pope. Hope you're in a good place. |
Rustang
Newbie Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 09:21 am: |
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I would agree that people are in need of a heroe.He has given a lot of folks something to point out and say "See?Hope has not perished.He was a good man."Things like that are in pitifully short supply these days.I don't know about that sheltered from reality thing,though.He got to see the Nazis roll through his homeland kicking ass as a child.Then the Nazis were defeated,which you would think would be a good thing,but he saw them replaced by nearly 50 years of Soviet oppression.Those strike me as being some pretty harsh realities.Did he bring about sweeping reform to the catholic church?Hardly,but then a pope is pretty much going to be a 'company man' or he would never be elevated to the position of God's vicar on earth.That particular title always struck me as being just a bit on the pretentious side,but that's just me.I'm not catholic,or any other brand of christian,so it's really not my call to make.He and Johnny Cochran do have one thing in common though.They both rose to the top of their field under some pretty extreme adversity,and that should command a certain amount of respect from even the hardest of hearts. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2066
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 10:59 am: |
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Anybody the Pope's age has encountered adversity in life. I don't know that enduring it is synonomous with being extraordinary. And very few people ascend to a position that allows them to be a spectator to the woes of the world. I give the Pope what he is due: Respect for being the Pope. But all of the mind-boggling adulation that his death has inspired is a bit much for an agnostic like me. Johnny Cochran was never a big hero of mine. But he did keep it real. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1067
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 11:02 am: |
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Rustang:
You know if we got any Catholics on this list they are gonna give it to you.
Cynique:
I will pray for you at vespers. |
Steve_s
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 80
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 01:56 pm: |
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Cynique (or should I say Cyniqua?), John Paul II may have been conservative on many issues, but your idea of this particular Pope as living in an ivory tower doesn't hold up to even cursory scrutiny. This was the Pope who travelled more than any other. He went to Cuba in the 1990s and as I remember, made some critical remarks about the government, even as Castro permitted an open display of Catholicism. I read André Codrescu's book on the subject, "Ay, Cuba!: A Socioerotic Journey," which, incidentally contains an interview with Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez who hadn't yet defected. The Pope was probably a force in overthrowing communism in his native Poland and coincidentally, reigned during the collapse of communism in Europe. He improved the church's relations with Jews and Muslims. There are now 12 million Catholics in China living under communism. There may have been no black faces in the crowd, but what exactly do you mean by that? What does it have to do with Johnnie Cochran?
Here's Stanley Crouch's column called Four Revolutionaries, a tribute to Bobby Short, Johnnie Cochran, Harold Cruse, and Bruce Wright. Sorry if someone's already posted it.
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Four revolutionaries
by Stanley Crouch
The recent deaths of Bobby Short, Bruce Wright, Harold Cruse and Johnnie Cochran symbolize the very great changes that have taken place in America over the last 40 years while reminding us of how much is left to be done.
One could not imagine four more dissimilar men or four men more driven in arenas that seemed largely closed off to them when they were children.
Each was something of a revolutionary in his given field and each proved how much could be done by a black man who had chosen to embrace the complexities of his identity.
Each had a sort of integrity, whether or not one always agreed with the decisions made.
One of Bobby Short's accomplishments was that he represented a sophistication and taste that one did not associate with the show business conventions that held sway 80 years ago when he was born (and holds sway today in the new minstrelsy of gangster hip hop). But Short became the "best saloon singer in the world," singing the finest songs from the American Songbook, from black town or white town. In that way, he did what all true Americans, whether born here or immigrants, want. He created and maintained a vision of beauty, wit, spunk and varied feeling that irrepressively rose above any imposed limitations of color.
Bruce Wright was a controversial New York judge who maintained a running battle with the New York Police Department as long as he sat on the bench. He demanded professional conduct, questioned tactics and hectored against minority suspects unnecessarily experiencing excessive or deadly force. Some considered Wright no more than a bitter man who hated the police. But in a democracy, such judges keep the police on their toes, which is what should be demanded of those who go to work carrying guns. Under harsh scrutiny, the police do their best work and they most benefit their own reputations and the lives of our communities.
Harold Cruse's "The Crisis of the Negro Intellectual," exploded in 1967 and called on the carpet simplistic ideas about Afro-American life, troubles, culture and political solutions. Cruse was an independent. He did not care; he attacked the left, the right, the integrationists, the separatists, the black nationalists and those who laughably considered themselves "revolutionaries." But Cruse always understood that the black American is, above all else, an American. For Cruse, as with any sane person, culture was always more important than skin tone because it told us so much more than color.
Johnnie Cochran achieved astonishing levels of eloquence and charisma, but also tried to impose a demagogic allegiance to color on the black reporters who covered the O.J. Simpson case. He proved two very important things about American society. First that we cannot be too careful in examining the actions and motives of our police and forensics people. Second, with his achieving an acquittal for wrongly convicted and imprisoned former Black Panther Elmer (Geronimo) Pratt, whom he represented for 27 years, Cochran proved something equally important. Our system continues to grow and can only achieve a closer relationship to justice if it has hardworking men who are willing to run the long distance.
All of these men experienced the loneliness of the long-distance runner and the matchless excitement and satisfaction that comes with unexpected victory.
Originally published on March 31, 2005
http://www.nydailynews.com/03-31-2005/news/story/294916p-252507c.html
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2069
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 03:16 pm: |
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Well, Steverino, let me just say this. I still think that in his role as Pope this pontiff did more deploring than he did alleviating. Yes, he traveled a lot. It was good PR and provided good photo ops. Let me say further, that the most criticism leveled at the Pope comes from Catholics themselves; mainly nuns who deplored his blind chauvinism, and from the progressive bishops and cardinals who who were frustrated with the way he isolated those with views different than his. And millions and millions of Lay Catholics did not support his views on divorce, birth control and celibacy and women priests. As I said nobody is perfect, and John Paul did do some good because that what Popes are supposed to do. But, to me, all of this adulation is very excessive for someone who was not divine. And - when I said that there were no black faces in the swarm of worshippers, I said what I said. I don't think black people are affected as much by the Pope's death as white people are, which might mean that in spite of what all the TV talking heads are saying, the Pope's influence wasn't that wide-spread. As for Johnnie Cochran, he was a lawyer, so right away he commands suspicion. LOL. But I gave him credit for being a good example of someone who lived his convictions and in the course of his professional life, he provided faith, hope and charity for both his rich and poor clients. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 11:04 am: |
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My opinion of the Pope has been kicked up a notch after reading that not too long ago, he decried America's "souless vision of the world." Way to go, Johhny, boy. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 93
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 08:26 pm: |
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Cynique: Interesting perspective here: "South African Catholics buck Vatican
Leaders advocate condoms as antidote to AIDS virus" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7424859/
All my mother's side of the family are Catholic (including 4 priests). Won't hold my breath that there'll be a black or brown pope... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2099
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 04:28 pm: |
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Yes, Yvettep, that article seemed to reinforce the idea that Catholicism is full of dilemmas. And a lot of Catholics will confide that it is a religion that fosters life-long guilt complexes in those who have stumbled on the straight and narrow path. Many who attended Catholic schools say they can still feel the sting of rulers on their knuckles from the stern nuns who punished their students for not toeing the lines. As for a black pope, I can't see the white Catholics paying homage to a holy father who is a man of color but - who knows???? |
Libralind2
Regular Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 34
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 06:05 pm: |
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Frankly I have a problem with a organization engaging in a cover up for men who have molested children. |
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