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Tonya
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Username: Tonya

Post Number: 686
Registered: 07-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 02:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is NBA Dress Code Racist? Who Cares?

Published: Oct 24, 2005

I am trying to feel Marcus Camby's pain. I am also trying to keep a straight face. I cannot do both.

Camby, for those who never read the sports page, is a very tall man who is paid $8 million per annum to play basketball for the Denver Nuggets. You'd think life would be good, but Camby is feeling put upon.

This is because last week the National Basketball Association instituted a dress code for its players. No more sunglasses worn indoors, no more sleeveless shirts, no more headphones during news conferences, no more caps cocked to the side, no more do-rags, no more rumpled sweats, no more chains bearing gaudy pendants the approximate size and weight of a small child. Business casual dress is now required of every player while on team business.

Camby feels this is an unfair burden. He told a reporter that if the NBA wants to impose a dress code, it should give each player a clothing allowance.

Did I mention that Camby is paid $8 million a year?

Of course, not every NBA player who opposes the dress code has cited financial hardship as his reason. At least two - Stephen Jackson of the Indiana Pacers, Paul Pierce of the Boston Celtics - have cited race. They think the code is aimed at ridding the league of the hip-hop ``gangsta'' look that is so popular among young black men.

``I think that's part of our culture,'' said Pierce. ``The NBA is young black males.''

Does he have a point? Is race a factor here? Having given the matter considerable consideration, I have an answer. In fact, I have three:

(1) No. The new dress code will also require a wardrobe upgrade for such noteworthy white slobs as Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash.

(2) Maybe. Given that more than 75 percent of its players are black, the NBA can hardly avoid being a microcosm of racial issues.

(3) Who cares?

Actually, No. 3 is my favorite. Let us assume that NBA commissioner David Stern is indeed motivated by a perception that basketball fans find it increasingly difficult to relate to a league of Scary-Looking Young Black Men - especially after last year's brawl between players and fans.

So what? This is business. Stern is entitled - obligated - to use any moral means to protect his multibillion-dollar corporation. If you earn a lavish living from that corporation, you should also be concerned about its well-being.

As for race: Let's grant that for some individuals, all young black men, indeed, all black men, period, are scary-looking, regardless of dress. Still, to believe the dress code is racist, you must ignore the fact that the gangsta look is not particularly popular among middle-aged black folk but is often embraced by young white ones. Point being, this is less racial than generational.

Meaning a generation of young black people choosing a style of dress that connotes criminality and street- corner values. And it's childish to say, as Camby did, ``You shouldn't judge a person from what they wear.'' Unlike skin tone, unlike nationality, unlike sexual orientation, clothing reflects a conscious choice.

So judging people by what they wear is fair. One has an absolute right to dress in a lime-green suit with red shoes and an orange tie. But one has no reasonable expectation of being treated seriously as a candidate for the executive position while so attired. Because the company also has rights, including the right to ensure you represent it well.

Clothes, we used to say, make the man. The man, if he has a lick of sense, realizes this and conducts himself accordingly.

The African-American man - so often scorned simply for being - should understand that better than any, particularly if he is fortunate enough to be lavishly compensated for playing a game.

So it's hard to muster sympathy for Marcus Camby. Poor baby thinks he's being mistreated? I can think of 8 million reasons he's wrong.

Leonard Pitts Jr. is a columnist for the Miami Herald.

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Nels
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Post Number: 145
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:52 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Is NBA Dress Code Racist?"

No, it's not racist. There's nothing wrong with looking like a professional instead of an overpaid hip-hop thug.
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Anunaki3600
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't the NBA Black players realize that once out of NBA Office and on playa time (Non-NBA official time) they can dress like pimps or thugs. It is just that they cannot dress like dat on company time.
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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:10 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds racist to me. society assigns meaning to what we wear, how we speak, etc...Those with power make the rules and determine the standards, the moral, etc...in this society wearing a european suit is considered professional...and wearing hip hop clothes is looking like a thug...yes, it is racist.
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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:27 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lets look at it from another perspective...

What we call code switching...I grew up in the hood; when I'm there or during my leisure I dress a particular way; when I am at work, on the other hand, I assimilate to the job's code of dress. At no point do i confuse my lanuguage or dress with being uncivilized, unprofessional, etc...I understand that it is racist. When I am at work, I am in enemy territory, but I need to eat, provide for my self and assimilation, in some way, is often the only way to do it in the "master's house." It started long ago. My people had assimilated, as all dominated people do to some degree...for I only know american english, but more ebonics than english....i was raised christian, I am a western man with black skin; my culture is an amalgamation of many african and european cultures that my ancestors used to survive in this country. Much of it included resistance, but also creating music, cuisines, values, language, etc....but racism forced and forces my people to use part of a foreign culture, that is a part of me but is still foreign to me, to live and surive in this country. This is what Rustang and I were talking about--anglicization.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:12 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's racist and hypocritical. George Bush wears a suit. Karl Rove wears a suit. Dick Cheney wears a suit.

The Enron boys wear suits. People wore suits in those crowds where negroes were lynched. John Gotti wore a suit. Strom Thurmond probably had one on while he was raping that black woman he had the baby by.

It's American people's superficiality and hypocrisy. As the world is going down the toilet those jerks think they can make everything right by putting negroes in suits.

It's white people saying how they will tolerate negroes again. I wonder how many white boys will be able to walk in with cowboy hats, boots and them string tie things?

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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:17 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A good perspective Yukio! As far as the NBA goes, the head coaches are also required to wear suits and ties when I'm sure many of them would prefer to dress casual, wear maybe jeans or open-collared shirts, even gym shoes. If the players can't stand the heat, then they should get out of the kitchen. How bad can it be to wear a suit when you're earning millions of dollars a year to bounce a ball around? Black people need to consider that this is North America, not West Africa. When all is said and done, like it or not, we are U.S. citizens by default and nobody really cares about our petty grievances. So you have to get your priorities straight and get with the program and keep on truckin and stop digging for the roots of racism in everything because this can become a very time-consuming preoccupation not worth the effort since the results are already known. This NBA players' gripe is on a par with nit-picking and is really counter-productive to black upward mobility because it can back-fire. What if the NBA told black players they couldn't wear suits and ties because they were supposed to only wear hip-hop clothes? Oooh what uproar it would be then.
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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:29 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

good pts. chrishayden. Good pts. cynique...You are on ya upward mobility kick again, eh? At what costs? Assimilation? cultural suicide? Better yet, what if black players were in control and told the NBA that they would have to dress like black players....Oooh what uproar it would be then!
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Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

---They think the code is aimed at ridding the league of the hip-hop ``gangsta'' look that is so popular among young black men.

``I think that's part of our culture,'' said Pierce. ``The NBA is young black males.''---


It's obvious that to most whites and these brainwashed black players that black culture as a whole is defined by hip-hop (or "bling").
This isn't racism. This is irrational P.C. at work once again. Non-blacks (often the appologetic kind) who think they know what defines our culture and uses the race card to challege anyone whom they believe is threatening what they believe is "Black culture".
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 11:11 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tell me Yukio. Who is in control? Certainly not the masses of any color. Have you figured out a way to combat the white power structure or come up with an alternative approach to making inroads - that reaps results?? And tell me, does assimilation mean annihilation? No. Assimilation is a 2-way process. Everybody is always talking about how black culture has permantently manifested itself in the greater society. So black culture is not totally overwhelmed, and white culture is diluted. BTW. How would you refer to yourself? Downwardly mobile??
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Yvettep
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 11:25 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If every Black player left the NBA tomorrow, pooled their millions and started their own damn league they could wear whatever the hell they wanted. Until then, they should find other ways to protest and express their individuality (e.g., purple velvet suits, NOI bow ties, whatever) if they feel so strongly about it.
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Libralind2
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 12:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I dont care.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 02:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just like Nick Nolte said to Eddie Murphy in 48 hours--"You got on a thousand dollar suit and you're still a low life."
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 02:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Until the time when there is something other than the sea of white faces who comprise the paying customers in sports arenas, what NBA bench warmers wear is irrelvant.
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Renata
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think it's stupid. They should try being a $10 to $15 an hour customer service rep and joining a company with a strict dress code while being forced to buy new clothes for their new position. There have been Muslim women who NEEDED jobs and quit when they didn't want to follow the dress code, because they felt so strongly about it.

They have the money to buy their own basketball team if they want, enforcing whatever dress code they want, but they still would rather work for white people, and are now bitching that they have to buy new clothes. I say that as long as you're employed by someone, you have to dress by the employer's dress code. The rest of us have to do it, and without the MILLIONS that they get.

The point is, when you're on your own time, do what you want. But if you wish to work for a particular employer, they pay you to keep an image for their company.

Anyone willing to pay you MILLIONS and all they ask is that you wear a suit when representing them is HARDLY racist.

But again, they should try being forced to buy suits on $10 to $15 an hour.

And on another note, when did hip/hop culture become 'black' culture? If they were required to cut Afros down, straighten hair or wear it in a ponytail, cut locs, not weart overtly religious attire, etc., I would agree that it was racism.

Likewise, if I worked at Burger King, would it be racist if I were told I must wear a Burger King shirt when representing the company, if otherwise I only wore daishikis?
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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:11 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique: It is not about the "masses" being in control, it is about a cultural group setting standards that all have to follow in order to be accepted. What I'm talkin about is power.

The question is, what are inroads....for some people in roads means money, others it could be cultural integrity, etc.....I believe in both, but I also know racism when I see it. I think most of the NBA players will do as their told, cuz they want to make their money. I think others will challenge the NBA based on principle.

Renata:
Your argument is legitimate, but it doesn't change the fact the NBA's decision is racist. Of course, we can go on for days talking about who makes more or less money, but this doesn't make what the NBA did correct.

Just because they are well paid doesn't mean the employer is not racist. Instead, it means the employer understands the value of the labor (Does this mean that when people are underpaid that the employer is racist?). The fact is, NBA players make very little in comparison to the owners and NBA management...most players don't make millions.

Here is another way of looking at it: During Reconstruction, planters were in debt because slaves were worth more than the land they worked....slave labor/nba players are expensive because they are profitable for the planters/NBA enterprise.
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio, there are very few NBA players who are not making millions dollars, believe me. And, everybody knows and concedes that racism exists. So why is this such a revelation? It's like it makes blacks feel satisfied to be able to point to something and say aha, you can't fool me! That's racism! Is racism ever gonna go away?? I doubt it. So now what?
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I, for one, don't give a damn that these colorist fools are getting dumped on. Fuck 'em. I hope they do some more racist shit to 'em. I'm ready to call stern to suggest some real racism.

Colorist bastards!
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Renata
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And these guys make enough money to be in positions (basketball or other) where they don't have to take treatment they find racist, but they continue to work for what they consider racist employers. Makes sense? Not to me. I could understand an underpaid person who may not want to make a big deal out of it because they really need the money for their kids and bills. But I don't see why an overpaid person, who could take his money and use it in his own business ventures and get something that's HIS, would choose to instead stay with something that so offends him.

That's what they have to learn: when they own the business or work for themselves, then they can call the shots. As long as they work for someone else, they won't call the shots. They got the money to get something where they can call their own shots, but they choose not to.

And that's part of the problem: even RICH black men work in positions UNDER other people, and get angry when they get treated like EMPLOYEES.

I personally will be glad when NBA players and rappers aren't considered representatives of "black culture", then we'll probably get more black men striving to be scientists and teachers than we currently have. But that's another topic.

NBA players are expensive, but there's no law that says they have to remain NBA players. And they aren't in positions (financially) where they have no choice but to work for white men. You don't like the rules that white men set up? Then take the enormous amount of money you have, and set up something where YOUR STANDARDS will be the rule.

They have no sympathy from me.
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Renata
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 07:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And again, hip/hop gangsta clothing is not black CULTURE. Only people under 25 who prefer to wear it would consider it as such.

If you have even a 35 year old aunt or uncle (or anyone) in your family, suggest that they wear a gold chain and a sideways cap to the next family reunion to showcase their "culture" and see what they tell you.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 07:31 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I say they go old school on those bitches -- Jim Crow style.

Make those bastards drink from a seperate water fountain.

...Dat's what I'm talkin 'bout.

Tonya
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 07:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I, for one, don't give a damn that these colorist fools are getting dumped on. Fuck 'em. I hope they do some more racist shit to 'em. I'm ready to call stern to suggest some real racism.

Colorist bastards!

____________

Me and Tonya both. LOL


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Yukio
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 07:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique: I don't know how many NBA make millions, but my point is not about how much one makes. I'm addressing the issue of "who cares?" I care, but cause they are racist and they need to be called such. To me it is important to point out and address racism. It is clear to you that racism exists, but for many people--black, white, asian, etc..---racism is the past. If it exists then we need to address. You and I have been here before. As I have argued years ago, black activists have always criticized racism and the black community, so to me it is never a question of lack of self-motivation.

Renata: I hear you and agree, but it doesn't change the fact that it is racist. I don't think its a quetion of "treatment." These ballplayers will change their clothes and call it a day. It is the principle, and the fact that Stern claims it is not racist.

As it concerns culture, this is a semantic discussion. There are too many understandins of culture. Nevertheless, hip hop is an artform, where there is a wardrobe that reflects the music. Jazz had one too ...culture is as much about dress as it is about music, dance, and literature. What a person who is 35 years old doesn't change that...more than likely, their definition will be based on a generational position, as well as class, and level of assimilation.

This discussion is also about class. Clearly everyone who dresses "hiphop" is not a gangsta. Thus to equate the two is illogical. Neverless, people who make participate in hip hop culture may also participate in criminal behavior. And these criminals will more than likely do petty or small crimes..murder, theft, selling drus, etc..Similarly, folk in suits also participate in crimnal behavior...Bush's war on terrorism, for example. Or enron, etc...Thus to use Thug is to fall into a trap of equating instances of representing the whole.

As it regards who represents "black culture," I'm more interested in talking about the culture than the people...in this way, it doesn't become a question of morality, which again, could be based on class, level of assimilation, etc...

Throughout our history in this country, the conservative and assimilated ones were those who dislike blues, jazz, hip hop, etc....think about this from that perspective.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On a serious note:

This illustrates how hypocritical some black men are. NBA players are some of the most colorist black men on the planet. NONE of them are married to dark-skinned women and many of them are with white/mixed women. Exept for the dude who's engaged to Brandy, I haven't seen any of them with a black women who is even close to looking bona fide. And the thing that cracks me up, if you look at their sisters and mothers, the vast majority of the them are as black as black could come; yet, NONE of the women these guys end up with are in anyway like the women in their families. But they have the NERVE to scream racism and expect some one to take them seriously. They don't even take themselves seriously. It's not like they don't know that they're colorist, they know; they just don't care.... So guess what... NEITHER.. DO.. I.

Tonya
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hear you, Kola. (LOL)
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Yvettep
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 09:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was thinking about the dating angle too: A way, perhaps, for some in the power structure to say "You may be dating our daughters, our grandson's may be wearing your jerseys, but we're going to put you in your place!"

Perhaps?

Oh well oh well.

Like many have been saying: If you can't stand the heat...
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Renata
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 04:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Again, I don't consider it racism myself. But if they consider it so, they should stop bitching and do something about it THEMSELVES. What I see them doing is complaining to US and hoping that we do something about it, meanwhile they don't take action and continue to work for the people they say are mistreating them.

The average person doesn't have the time or the money to protest so some overpaid nba star doesn't have to buy a suit.

Also, hip hop culture isn't the culture of black PEOPLE. Black MEN, perhaps. I refuse to accept something as MY culture that denigrates me.
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Afroamerican
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 04:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

lol.

This brings back to many fond memories of the Kobe Bryant trial when all the Black women were screaming about the "White woman trying to set up a Black man doing something for himself".......

All the Black men were all of a sudden reminding us how "unfair" and "racist" society is and how White women have gotten plenty of innocent brothers hung back in the day on false rape charges.

Anyway, I didn't care! I secretly wanted his ass found guilty just as a cautionary tale to other dumbasses! I also remember hoping and praying that Kobe bryants child came out dark and nappy headed just like him so his marriage to the Mexican golddigger would have been in vain! lol. Well, I've seen his little girl now. She isn't nappy headed but shes' pretty dark!
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Yvettep
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 05:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when all the Black women were screaming...

Not this Black woman.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns

Post Number: 734
Registered: 07-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 05:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone who is not self-employed must understand that, unless they are the boss, they don't make the "rules" regarding dress codes. It's business.

I think the players who are bytchin' will do so for awhile--long enough to let people know they're pissed. In the long run, I think they make too much money to carry on about it. They're just blowin' hot air. When all is said and done, though, they know (in their hearts) it's not a big deal. World hunger is a big deal. Spoiled jocks.

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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2

Post Number: 248
Registered: 09-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 06:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I on the other hand tried to explain to children that the NBA players could wear the clothes they want on their own time. That is what I dont understand. No one is saying they cant wear them at all only when they representin..::sigh::
LiLi
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya

Post Number: 696
Registered: 07-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 06:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

("Not this Black woman.")

Ditto, Yvette.... Cuz I was like L-Y-N-C-H that nigga!

You better believe that shit!

Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya

Post Number: 697
Registered: 07-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...And what the FUCK is "pretty dark"??? Lawd! Some people are simply out of touch. And have the goddamn NERVE to be talkin about "other dumbasses" -- oh, no, you gotta Stop playing!

Please.

Tonya
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Cynique
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Username: Cynique

Post Number: 2902
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Never did like that arrogant Kobe Bryant and I laughed, not cried when he got his comeuppance.
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Serenasailor
Regular Poster
Username: Serenasailor

Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2006

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Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 06:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Puleeze, Don't believe this garbage. Those N.B.A negroes will wear a pair of pink thongs on the court if it means that they will still be able to buy mansions, marry white women, buy fancy cars, and make $50,000,000 a year.

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