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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2695
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:55 am: | 
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You know lots of times I have chuckled when Kola goes off on mulattos and multiculti people and that but I just heard something that makes me think she might have something--
See in almost every other culture that had lots of Africans the white folks attempted to set up a mulatto class to help rule the blacks--everyone but this one.
It was everybody in the boat. In other places you had your Creoles, mixed bloods, half breeds Coloreds (in South Africa) but here.
This guy on the radio last night said that, after years of not doing this, now the power structure is doing it. In fact encouraging it.
As I look at a number of things, Halle Berry, Beyonce, that commercial they had, etc., and the new attempts of people once black to claim multiculturalism and the dropping of objections to miscegenation, I am beginning to think she is seeing something going on that we might be blind to. |
Sohra
Regular Poster
Username: Sohra
Post Number: 28
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Kola aka lunatic doesn't deserve ANYthing but bitch slaps from ME... I mean GIVE me a FUCKINg break SHE slept With BIN LADEN???????.. what the fuck.. hellooo that FEMALE idiot is a psycho.. she is lost just sooo lost..
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6398
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
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Chris,
I'm seeing at too. Didn't see it as much before. But it becoming progressively more difficult to assert VALID rebuts to what Kola has argued here from the giddy-up.
Even when I disagreed with Kola, I just couldn't help 'feeling' as though there was something to what she was saying.
Question now is WTF do we DO about it, Kemosabee.
What do we DO? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5101
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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ACCORDING TO KOLA, colorism has been around since slavery in the person of house niggas who were the forerunners of the blue-vein society and passers of the paper bag test, light-skinned blacks who have for centuries have been doing massa's bidding by maintaining a color code among AAs. This is nothing new. Think about the Cottom Club chorus girls back in the 1920s. IMO, the "white power structure" isn't doing anything more than it ever did. If Halle Berry and Beyonce don't make money, they'll be kicked to the curb like anyone else. The only colors George Bush and his imperilistic new world order care about are the green of money and the black of oil. Are they really concerned about what shade blacks are? I don't think so. Yes, biraciality is on the rise but I think this is a natural evolution because America really has become a melting pot. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 588
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Cynique is right. However, there IS something to some of the things Kola says. But that's only because it's so obvious; it's old news. Langston Hughes, Chester Himes, Zora Neale Hurston, Ann Petry, etc., etc., have been over these grounds before; all Kola did was take from these writers, and rehash the stuff to make it look new. Kola has an agenda all her own, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with African-Americans, even though she herself is really an African-American. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1421
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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Kola knows all about it because she herself is a mulatto. And as Schakspir says, she just rehashes what others have already written and spoken about. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6400
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 8 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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Foks. There's little to anything that is 'new'. Only mostly newer, fresher versions of an old, enduring truth.
So perhaps what differentiate us is our ability and willingness to discern and to act upon the truth.
Here's one truth though that none can refute or deny: Black people have been and continue to be defeated. We continue to wallow in it. And NO one has managed to do anything about it.
Maybe the White man was right, all along. That we are less than he. And deserve to be subject to his leave.
Don't you agree. I mean, might makes right. Right?
Why at all do we even have the right to think ANYTHING about establishing and being some thing, some people unto ourselves...other than, of course, Whites, Asians, Indians, Arabs, etc. are free to do that very thing?
So, fine, Kola's wrong. I'm wrong. And you're right.
Please. Enjoy your 'superior' rhetorical position...within our shared enslavement. |
Savant
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Savant
Post Number: 165
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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There's no grand mystery at play here.
White supremacy has made a concerted, deliberate decision to fragment and splinter black folks along color lines in order to abet and solidify white privilege/white power globally. The colorism that has always been in existence (which whites encouraged and exacerbated from day one) is seen as an apt tool and resource to defuse black solidarity and to abet internecine dissension and infighting. The seeds of this phenomonon took hold in the 80's with the marked rise of black male/white female marriages/liaisons that resulted in a marked increase of "biracial" children. As I've mentioned repeatedly, white women, the handmaidens of white supremacy, began to proactively lobby for "biracial" status for their children, carving out an ideology of "biracialism" that took hold from that decade (the 80's) on.
People like Kola identify the problem but do not have the ideological sophistication to understand the insidious intent behind all of this. All of the namecalling and backbiting that we see on this board is a testament to how adept white supremacy is at pushing our buttons. If we are not vigilant and EXTREMELY careful in how we combat this deliberate tactic to destroy ALL of us, regardless of color/complexion/hue, we will not survive past the 21st century.
The global arc of white supremacy has reached a level of UNPARALLELED cunning and sophistication. And many of us, no matter how well-intentioned we perceive ourselves, are unwittingly and naively abetting and promoting the agenda of global white supremacy. |
Tall_brother
Regular Poster
Username: Tall_brother
Post Number: 30
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 02:04 pm: |
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Abm I read Kola book. It deep so niccas cant handle the truth.
She aight with me. I never saw a woman like this type but its what we need more.
The letter to her sons was tight. I'm down with that.
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Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 968
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 02:23 pm: |
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Savant, I still have a major problem with you identifying Wentworth Miller as a Black man. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5103
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 03:10 pm: |
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Why can't anybody ever take an overview of things. The Impotent States of America is being sapped by a senseless war, at the mercy of looming natural disasters, bogged down by bureacracy, polarized by ideologies, victimized by religion, overrun by immigrants, the infra structure of its cities on the verge of collapse, - a helpless giant that could be brought to its knees by something as simple as a massive power failure or a strategically-placed bomb, and people are hovering around wondering what black folks can do about a mythical white supremacy threat that exists primarily in the theories of radical black academia. This is 2006, folks. No one race or country wields the power to dominate or control the world anymore. White folks can't even get themselves together enough to increase their population by way of having more babies. All that's certain is that in the future, the strong will survive and the weak will perish; just like it's always been. zzzzzzzzzzzz |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 589
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 09:11 pm: |
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Abm: Here's one truth though that none can refute or deny: Black people have been and continue to be defeated. We continue to wallow in it. And NO one has managed to do anything about it.
Maybe the White man was right, all along. That we are less than he. And deserve to be subject to his leave.
Don't you agree. I mean, might makes right. Right?
Why at all do we even have the right to think ANYTHING about establishing and being some thing, some people unto ourselves...other than, of course, Whites, Asians, Indians, Arabs, etc. are free to do that very thing?
Schakspir: ARE YOU ON DRUGS????? |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 590
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 09:19 pm: |
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Cynique is on point: the white man has a way of making himself seem far, far more invincible than he really is. I think that is the main function, nowadays, of their mass media: to make themselves seem more powerful than they really are, more beautiful and charming than anyone else in the world, etc., etc. And stupid niggers, some of whom are posting on this board, buy into that shit. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5107
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:06 pm: |
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You know, Schakspir, my post was meant to provoke, and you took it one step further. To me, what you say rings true. And it's a observation that can be made without consulting studies on the subject. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1428
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
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We all need to stop worrying about what the white man is doing and start doing our own things. We're just as smart, if not smarter, than anyone else. And we don't need a bunch of education (although it helps) if we don't have it then we need to work with what we have - our street smarts and our common sense. That nobody has more of (or better of) than Black people. We are an intelligent people, we just need to realize it. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6407
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:30 am: |
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Why are you are so FEARFUL of admitting that White people have won when such is so clearly and plainly apparent?
You can't eventually win IF you refuse to recognize where and how you have lost.
I don't actually know nor really care whether White foks are innately better, smarter than Black foks. But HISTORY sure as hell as asserted such. And, ultimately, it is what HAS and DOES happens, not what we THINK or WANT to happen, that ever really matters.
So. They won. We lost.
The question NOW is whether and how we go forward.
Do we simply disappear into antiquity; like the Spartan, Assyrian and Native American? Or do we remain a unique, distinctive presence on this earth?
If you answer "Yes" to the former, then, well, there's little else to say to that.
But if you answer "Yes" to the latter, then HOW do you do that WITHOUT asserting some claim to and love for that which has been unique to and for YOU? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1493
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 09:48 am: |
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Hmmm...this is an old discussion. Of course colorism is a problem, but it should not preclude us from seeing its difference from and relationship to racism. There have always been biracial folk trying to claim a multicultural position even b4 the notion of multiculturalism became in vogue. Colorism is an ol strategy, if you will, of maintaining intraracial conflict. The multimedia prominence of Beyonce, Halle, and others is ol hat.
Of course, the U.S.'s and Northern Europe's power is not imperturbable, but they are still in power, controling much of the black world. Black people here and abroad are still dependent upon white folk's economies. Invinicibility, then, is not the issue, access to power and control over resources are. And we aint got it.
Whether you look at African Americans or Africans and West Indians, we are poor people!
In the case of African Americans, the right to vote and sit at a lunch counter has not translated in to wealth. Viewing ourselves as citizens rather than a group, our political behavior has been sloppy and our cultural integrity impotent.
In the case of West Indians and Africans, decolonization [like franchisment in the African American case], has not translated in to wealth. The political freedom at least as a nation has not been able to mitigate the economic unfreedom of Africans and West Indians.
In other words, black people are poor cuz we dont own shit! And we dont own shit, cuz we think as individuals rather than a group [that is, as Africans], thereby minmizing the power that we do have. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5108
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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This thread proves that there is no cohesive black mentality. Everybody's got a theory and a prediction and a definition and a complaint. Maybe we should consider what has already been conceded in regard to the term "white race". It has been referred to as being an artifical concept inasmuch as it is a catch-all label that has been applied to a group of Caucasian nationalities. So in America is there really such a thing as the "black race", or is this an artifical term applied to a disparate group of negroid slave descedants which colorism has divided into sub-categories that include "half-breeds". The idea that this diverse conglomerate of types is going to unite and mount a thrust against the dominate society is unrealistic. If you don't look like or talk like or live like a person with whom you share a common ancestry, then you are not inclined to become allied with them at the expense of diminishing your own status. It can be argued that THE MAN is a common threat that should have a unifying effect on America's "colored minority" but, in reality, one person's threat is another one's challenge. If you can't meet the challenge because you participate in your own inertia by perpetuating the things that handicap you, then you will fail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know. THE SYSTEM contributes to failure. But if you can't change THE SYSTEM, then THE SYSTEM has to change you. And one such change should involve being judicious about bringing children into this world unless you can provide them with a stable family unit. And like death and taxes, the old capitalistic equation of the "haves" and the "have nots" remains a constant. But what is significant about focusing on this is that being a "have" is becoming increasing more about class and money, rather than race. White supremacy? No. Human ingenuity? Yes. And as they say about the visissitudes of life: "Nobody ever promised you a rose garden". IMO! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6411
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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Yukio,
I think recall witnessing conservative pundit Dinesh D'Souza assert that the West (White foks) has dominated the world via mostly 4 basic principals:
@ The Scientific Method
@ Capitalism
@ Democracy
@ Judeo-Christianity
I have been unable to devise a worthy rebut to what he asserts. Can you? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2706
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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ABM:
What do we do?
I had to think of this. First of all who is the WE?
I mean for the overseer class this is going to represent an improvement of sorts. They will dig it.
And anybody related or married to them assuming that they will not marry just other persons of mixed ancestry will benefit too, by reason of being allied to them.
What of darker skinned people? This idea that whites only favor lighterskinned blacks is a fantasy. In fact, in certain areas of the country they favor darker skinned blacks because they don't trust lighter skinned blacks around their sons and daughters.
Their prejudice, not mine.
And any darker skinned blacks they like or favor they are going to advance, mainly to show the lighter skinned blacks who is in charge.
Sounds a lot like what happens now, don't it?
Do what you do now. Be temperate in all things. Raise your familes. Respect your spouses. Care for your children. Deal fairly with your neighbors. Try to build hedges to the future.
We are in a time when great and monstrous things are happening that we have little control over. We will have to learn to survive as such tides wash over us. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 592
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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Abm: Why are you are so FEARFUL of admitting that White people have won when such is so clearly and plainly apparent?
You can't eventually win IF you refuse to recognize where and how you have lost.
I don't actually know nor really care whether White foks are innately better, smarter than Black foks. But HISTORY sure as hell as asserted such. And, ultimately, it is what HAS and DOES happens, not what we THINK or WANT to happen, that ever really matters.
So. They won. We lost.
The question NOW is whether and how we go forward.
Do we simply disappear into antiquity; like the Spartan, Assyrian and Native American? Or do we remain a unique, distinctive presence on this earth?
If you answer "Yes" to the former, then, well, there's little else to say to that.
But if you answer "Yes" to the latter, then HOW do you do that WITHOUT asserting some claim to and love for that which has been unique to and for YOU?
Schakspir: Abm, shut up. The white man "won" a couple centuries ago because he had guns at a time in which most of the old African and Asian civilizations didn't. Period. He had guns, and he spoke languages that Africans did not yet understand. If you would take your head out of Kola's ass for a second, and just look at the big picture....whitey is losing. Bit by bit, brick by brick, his big kingdom is coming apart. The niggers are going to win in the end. At first, it will be the gooks, then the spics and ay-rabs, but in the end, it will be us--especially Africans, because nobody suspects Africans are capable of doing anything, because nobody really knows Africans. The only image they have of Africans is totally stereotypical and media generated. Which will work to their ultimate advantage.
About your fabulous Europeans--remember, 500 years ago, they weren't shit, except for a handful of Venetians, Florentines, Tuscans and maybe the Holy Roman Empire. It helps to read history, instead of sitting on your ass eating a fucking watermelon all day. In 1500, Songhai was more powerful than France. Today, Mali(aka Songhai)is a ward to France. How'd you think that came about? The fucking Scientific Method--scientific method of what? Using Maxim silencers, or explosives, or syphilis as germ warfare? And as for capitalism, certainly. A handful of fabulously wealthy Europeans and their descendents control over 75% of all the wealth in the world, which basically dismisses "democracy", or even "Judeo-Christianity"--that fact alone means that the white man is powerful, the white man dominates, because he is a master thief. PERIOD.
Oh, yeah, and ROTFLMMFAO at Abm when he quotes fascist hack Dinesh D'Souza--it seems he's come out of yet another closet and revealed himself as a fucking neo-conservative!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6415
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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Chris,
I'm not sure I understand your initial question. But I suppose by "We" I mean those of us who are (at least mostly) African in heritage.
I know there are geographical and social differences that can influence the colorist issue. And I think it might be worth observing such. But if, as a WHOLE (netting all the pluses/minuses), having the skincolor of Will Smith puts one in a decidely better position than that of Wesley Snipes, why WOULDN'T that be worth determining and acknowledging?
In a country that'll spend millions to save the friggin' Spotted Owl, why wouldn't the issue of colorism be worthy study and deliberation?
Yes, Chris. I am a temperate, and, mostly, prudent man. Perhaps I am exactly the kind of man who survives the "tide". Though, history suggests that I'm also as likely the sort who'll drown in it. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 01:02 pm: |
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ABM: Why have you asked me this question?
Actually, if I can replace the word exploit with dominate then I can roll with him.
Cynique: It was always about class, money, gender, and race. It was never only race, or better stated racism. That the black middle class has increased does not diminish the role of racism. Racism is not only expressed in discrimination in public accomodations, but also in cultural ways. Many studies state that desegregation has not happened.
Also, institutional racism has been untouched. More interestly and importantly, black people are now more explicitly racist towards other black people. Racism was part segregation, but also a certain view of black people, as inferior, abnormal, inhuman, and many foolish black people have confused the poverty of their brethren with black inferiority, familiar to have a culture, etc...at the end of the day, what really is the difference between Bill Cosby and Thomas Sowell[besides the fact that one gives millions of dollars to black colleges].
While Cosby focused on the poorer classes, his discription of them is not very different from that of Southerners' [and Northerners']descriptions of blacks during the Jim Crow period....lazy, promiscuous, and ignorant! This is not different from Sowell's Redneck thesis! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6416
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 6 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 01:39 pm: |
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Schakspir,
I am offering my opinions. You are offering yours.
I am not interested in engaging in the insults and ad hominems that you and Kola have exchanged.
So if THAT's the direction your posts are going to go, then I'm going to consider you persona non grata, and treat you accordingly. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6418
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 01:48 pm: |
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Yukio,
I asked, I guess, to determine where and how D'Souza may be incorrect.
The White man dominates. That fact prevails amid virtually everything we do.
But that need not be forever.
Cosby's actually WORSE than Sowell. Because Sowell game and intent is much more apparent. So you can prep for it.
But how do Black foks deal with the previously avuncular, now fire-breathing, hellraising Cosby? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6419
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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Yukio,
It never ceases to amaze how BLIND so-called middle and upper-middle class are to how wholly IMPOTENT they are.
It reminds me of when in the late 1980's a Japanese Prime Minister made some disparaging remarks about African Americans and Jesse Jackson Sr. (of all people) said something to the effect of "The sad reality of his comments is a BILLION Black foks can't put together a single Toyota".
The mediocrity of Black people - be they America, African, European, etc. - FAR/AWAY transcends the poorest and least educated of us. Moreover, it is the BEST of us who are largely RESPONSIBLE for their troubles. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5112
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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In the real world, Yukio, the average person black or white is not intellectualizing where he fits into the scheme of things. He is instinctively scratching out a niche for himself in sphere in which he operates. A black college graduate in middle management looks down his nose on a white truck driver who lives in a trailer park and this corporate nigga doesn't give a shit about whether desegration has occurred. Institutionalized racism is so entrenched that the only way for it to disappear is for this society to be dismanteled and re-built. And I don't see this happening because there is no monolithic movement to bring it about. Who will come forth and eliminate racism and poverty? Nobody. The strong prevail and the weak will stand around talking about what they need. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3236
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 02:08 pm: |
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Well, in the case of "COSBY", ABM--though I don't agree with him, I still stand by the rule of our people (WE being Africans) that the ELDERS must always be allowed to speak, and be respected...even if we think what they say is wrong.
I understand Cosby's impatience and I truly believe that he LOVES black people---which is why he's saying these very blistering things as he gets older.
He doesn't realize, however, that he too is INFECTED with stereotypical notions, etc. But his body of life's work is very loving of black people, IMO.
Though he's harsh---he's also very right about a lot of what he says.
Black people ARE stupid.
They ARE.
And they do an enormous amount of "posturing" and "making excuses" as they merrily go along playing the wronged victim, the morally superior people---the keepers of "cool", though during INVENTORY---we find that almost everything done in this community falls on the side of "self-destruction".
Cosby's classism is what I object to, because he omitts the fact that the BLACK MIDDLE and UPPER CLASS (his class) are the ones doing the absolute most damage and destruction to our people.
He fails to call out the images created by BET and Michael Jackson--the colorism and censorship of the Elite Blacks.
Still, Cosby is an authentic Black Man and he's an ELDER.
WHO I find disgusting is James Earl Jones---making the statement that he's more "Irish" than black, and that he married a white woman because of X-Y-Z "flaws" in black women....but found a "calling" to his white wife because of his Irish roots.
He was one of my top 5 favorite actors--I think his acting blows Poitier and Belafonte under the table. But like them, he's pure niggerstock.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5113
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 02:14 pm: |
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Welcome to the "ad hominem" club, Schakspir. Good thing Troy doesn't consider you a "persona non grata" because he has the authority to banish you from this board. But I'm sure he'd have no problem with you hanging around because you are a bona fide e pluribus unum and are grounded on terra firma. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3237
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 02:24 pm: |
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Oh please, Cynique.
Schakspir's a woman-hating asshole who believes that I'm an AGENT FOR THE CIA.
He believes that with all his heart and you, who I do think has a lot to say worth listening to, even if we don't ever agree---has the gall to try and pat him down for barking at ABM.
Schakspir isn't fit to breathe the same air as ABM...let alone hold a discussion.
And I notice that you yourself don't hold very many discussions with Schakspir---and your responses to him are usually less than a paragraph.
Very telling indeed, Mother.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5114
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 02:37 pm: |
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Get real, Kola. I like Schakspir. He cuts through the fat and avoids a lot of trite rhetoric. I also find what he has to say interesting and informative. Obviously I don't share your opinion when it comes to him and ABM. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5115
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 02:44 pm: |
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I might add that Schakispir is no more preposturous than you, Kola. And who puts down women any worst than you? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6421
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Kola,
I would NEVER seek to thwart or preempt Cosby speaking his mind. Nor do I wholly disagree with him.
My problem with him (and his apologists) is he foolishly and CONVENIENTLY ascribes the troubles of all Black people to our weakest, poorest and dumbest.
That's crazy.
It's akin to attributing the troubles of England to its cockney plebs while failing to mention Queen Elizabeth and Prime Minister Blair.
Yes. His wording and tone has been harsh. But I would have it to be much more palatable if it FAIRLY, ACCURATELY and FULLY identified the problem, which is largely THIS: Black people have at best 1 1/2 PERCENT (some say just 1/2 PERCENT) of this nation's wealth.
Again. This issue GREATLY transcends the weaknesses of our weak. The issue truly is that even our strong...are weak.
And THAT'S something Cosby and his ilk DON'T want to see a PUBLIC accounting of. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6422
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 04:29 pm: |
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Kola,
You KNOW I don't mind the verbal jousting. But it seems for some time now that THAT is the PRIMARY motivation of everything that some foks post here.
Really. It's difficult to have a discussion without being assaulted.
Maybe I'm going through a momentary phase or something. But for me, at least, I've gotta idle down the incessantly senseless rancor.
More on Cosby:
I'll bet I love Cosby as much as most Black foks do. Though he has his faults (like the rest of us), he reminds you of that father we all wish we had.
But a good father should speak the WHOLE truth. Even when, perhaps ESPECIALLY when, such does not reflect favorably upon HIM. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 566
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:18 pm: |
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Abm, I agree with your perspective on Cosby 100 percent, sorry Kola. 
|
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 595
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:23 pm: |
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Abm, I'm assuming you know something about African/Afro-American history vis-a-vis Europeans and their descendants in America and elsewhere. About slavery. About colonialism, Jim Crow, etc. Meaning, there are REASONS why blacks don't own shit. I said earlier that Europeans and their descendants are master thieves--their historical record proves that--but now, you are insinuating that blacks are innately inferior. You basically answered your own questions when you fingered the black elites as the cause of black mediocrity. Which is to say, our leaders suck ass. BUT THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO DO. They aren't fucking up. They are doing a splendid job IN THEIR OWN CAPACITY AS MICKEY MOUSE, SELL-OUT, INCOMPETENT LEADERS. The first step away from black mediocrity is to get rid of these bullshit black leaders, and create another, more dynamic kind of leadership. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 568
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:30 pm: |
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Abm, make it infinity + 10000000000000000000000000000000000000 percent.
..now that I've read the whole thing.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3242
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:35 pm: |
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Well, Tonya...you must not have read my whole comment because ABM just came along and said the exact thing that I said.
Did you AND ABM miss this part of my post:
Cosby's classism is what I object to, because he omitts the fact that the BLACK MIDDLE and UPPER CLASS (his class) are the ones doing the absolute most damage and destruction to our people.
He fails to call out the images created by BET and Michael Jackson--the colorism and censorship of the Elite Blacks.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 570
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:43 pm: |
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But why would I listen to him any more than I would James Earl Jones or Sidney Poitier? They're all Elders. And they're all wrong (Cosby for not telling the whole story). |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3244
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:44 pm: |
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I just said that TONYA.
STILL...you always are compelled to listen to your ELDERS out of respect.
YOU will someday be an Elder, and you will be wrong to somebody.
And let's not forget---NONE OF US ARE RIGHT.
Everybody has a moment when they are wrong and right.
This cynicism is a huge part of the problem.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3245
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:48 pm: |
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And it totally baffles me how you and ABM have not noticed that I said the same exact thing that you said.
The only difference is that I'm not expressing "hostility" at Cosby---because as I said, he LOVES black people, and that's been obvious his whole life.
The ELDER is the ELDER---they don't have to be "right" every time. They have lived long enough to say what they want.
Now if Cosby were a "traitor" to the community and the people--if he hated/loathed black folks as I suspect James Earl Jones does----then I would attack him viciously, and you should know that about me.
Another one I am lenient with---Quincy Jones. Is for a reason. He gives MOST of his wealth to Black people, black business, and notably, Black WOMEN. Regardless of his obvious "issues" with his own blackness.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 571
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:55 pm: |
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I gotchu Kola. I'm just sayin:
I'M NOT ABOUT TO LET SOME ELDER FUCK UP MY SECTION 8..
..JUST CUZ HE'S THE COZ. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3248
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 06:03 pm: |
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HA HA!!!
 |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 596
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 09:48 pm: |
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Funny--Kola merely reparaphrased what I said about the bullshit black elites. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5119
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:22 am: |
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The thing I would like to call attention to is that just because a person doesn't live in the inner city doesn't mean that they are a member of the phony black elite. The black bourgeoise is a class status, but there are great numbers of black "MIDDLE INCOME" people, folks who are gainfully employed, are buying their own homes, and are trying to do a good job of raising their children. They don't wear designer clothes, or drive fancy cars and their children don't belong to Jack and Jill or come out in elaborate cotillions. They are simply people who have had the gumption to rise above their circumstances and become independent. Everybody keeps stroking those poor, poverty-stricken ghettoites, attempting to blame everybody but the people themselves for their plight. The folks who need to be commended are those who motivated themselves to escape poverty by figuring out what it took to do better. And no matter what rationale the bleeding heart do-gooders offer, those who don't make it out of the ghetto, are those who saddle themselve with too much baggage and are then left with no choice but to seek public assistance and settle into the welfare lifestyle. Yes, there exceptions to the rule, people who lose their jobs or have been abandoned by their mates and have to seek aid but they don't usually make this a permanent state... And yes, I know. This is all academic because somewhere someplace a secret council of white people are enscounced away in a boardroom, plotting conspiracies, manipulating circumstances and controlling the media, all in the hopes of keeping black folks under their thumb. tsk-tsk. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 579
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:57 am: |
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Cynnique, your post would make some sense if anybody on this board once tried to "stroke those poor, poverty-stricken ghettoites" (whatever the hell that means), or attempted to put the blame on ANY one group within the AA community, like you seem to be hell-bent on doing.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 581
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:12 am: |
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My bad: "...if anybody on this THREAD once tried to..." |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5120
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:39 am: |
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Can't you read, Tonya? The phrase "poor poverty stricken ghettoites" is self-explanatory. They are the indigent inner city residents. They are also the "the weakest poorest and dumbest" that ABM referred to, and they are the segment of the population whose dark skin you claim dooms them to them to dwell in the slums, and they are certainly who Bill Cosby had in mind when he said what made people like you damn near pee on yourselves. And a whole lot of people on this board regularly attack the black middle-class for not reaching back and helping those they left behind. Just as everybody tends to give the poor poverty stricken ghettoites a pass because they are victims of THE SYSTEM.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 582
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 02:01 am: |
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"Can't you read, Tonya? The phrase "poor poverty stricken ghettoites" is self-explanatory. They are the indigent inner city residents. They are also the "the weakest poorest and dumbest" that ABM referred to..."
CAN'T YOU READ, CYNNIQUE?
WHEN DID ABM "STROKE" THEM? OR ANYBODY ON THIS THREAD?--THIS ONE.
Abm, thinks you are intellectually dishonest. Me. I just think you're dishonest.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 583
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 02:07 am: |
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Btw, I'm sure Bill Cosby had postal workers in mind as well.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 584
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 02:25 am: |
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"And a whole lot of people on this board regularly attack the black middle-class for not reaching back and helping those they left behind. Just as everybody tends to give the poor poverty stricken ghettoites a pass because they are victims of THE SYSTEM."
Since people do this so often on this board you should be able pull a thread with no problem and post it here. It's relatively easy to do. You can go to Google, type in "aalbc" and a few key words that corresponds to the subject you are looking for. For once, for once, back something you've claimed up. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6427
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 09:56 am: |
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Schakspir,
If Whites truly have been “master thieves”, don’t you think it LONG past due for Black to be ‘security experts’?
And HOW were Whites able to enslave and colonize Blacks?
Was it simply because they were much more malevolent? Or was it because they have possessed effective tools and methodologies?
ALL people have and will lie, cheat, steal and kill. Perhaps what distinguishes Whites from the rest of us has been the audacious EFFICIENCY by which they have effected such.
And our leadership is born of us. To improve it, we must improve OURSELVES. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6428
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 10:01 am: |
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Kola,
I do NOT think that my expecting Cosby to accurately describe our problems equates to my being "hostile" towards him.
And I feel you on the 'respect your elders' tip. Really...I do.
There comes a time, however, when the King must 'die' so that the his Kingdom doth endure and prosper. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6429
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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Kola,
Here's my problem with your favoring Quincy Jones over his James Earl Jones: I'll bet there are far MORE Black women who are aware of (and bothered by) Quincy having had FOUR WHITE WIVES than their are sistas who knew that James Earl has had just ONE. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3253
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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ABM,
You are not a woman.
James Earl Jones HATES black women (and black people for that matter).
Quincy Jones does not.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5121
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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I ain't doin shit, Tonya. When is it going to register with you that I don't feel the need to meet your demands? Furthermore, you don't call the shots around here when it comes to whether or not people have to validate their opinions. What are you going to do if I don't follow your orders? Tell Troy? Or Thumper? Or, heaven forbid - ABM? Woooo. Maybe you could get a petition to have me banned from the board? Puleeze. Do you have to consult a study to conclude that I'm too old to change? Could you by any stretch of the imagination decide that on your own? As I have said before, my memory is my google. I didn't just make up everything I said. It is a observation I reached during the course of the 5,121 different times I have participated in discussions on this board and also from LIVE interactions with people over a period of 50+ years. Everybody on this board who objected to Bill Cosby's criticism are, in effect, apologists for the people he attacked. chrishayden puts down the black bourgeoise on a regular basis, as did Schakspir in a post on this very thread when he contemptuously referred to the "black elite" and the sorry quality of black leadership. Your idol Kola Boof CONSTANTLY chides black folks, as does Serenasailor. I don't have to scurry over to the Google site to back this up. Since that's your MO, you go find some posts that contradict what I claimed in my post! If you got a problem with my veracity, I sure got a problem with a pedant like you who is so inhibited and has so little confidence in your common sense that you have to back up everything you dare to utter with proof from some another source. And, BTW, the people at the post office are examples of the ones I was talking about in my post, folks who are not the black elite but are hardworking people who lead independent lives. And I used the term "bleeding heart do-gooder" because it is one coined looong ago by activists who objected to how self-serving social agencies pamper the poor ghettoites and become their ennablers. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3254
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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And HOW were Whites able to enslave and colonize Blacks?
Because "BLACK MEN" have always been the first
to sell out their brothers, their women and their children---that's REALLY why.
And that's exactly how it was done.
A few greedy dictator-Kings were given "mirrors", "ink pens" and "knives"
(and later white dwarf women) in exchange
for whatever land, natural resources and
human slave chattel they could provide.
And this is EXACTLY what is going on today
in Black America---the same sorry ass men
like Schakspir who make excuses for why it's
OK to hate black women and children, why it's
THEIR FAULT---why women like me are crazy and
don't deserve respect----why they can't do
anything about destructive Hip Hop culture and
everything else that sabotages black people
at the core.
The WHITE MAN has done what he's supposed to do and that's about it.
Though Blacks in Rwanda and Sudan have no
problem slaughtering each other---when have you
EVER seen such aggression by Blacks against
Whites or Arabs??????
Haiti and the African World World (1600's) against the slave trade is about it.
Of course, in the African World War--Black
Kings sold out those African nations who rose against the whites.
Something UNTHINKABLE for European men
had Europe been invaded by Africans.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
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Hi all!
Still getting caught up on this thread, but it looks like a vigorous discussion. I have 3 or 4 cents, then I'll shut up until I'm finished reading.
Re: Cosby--How many of you have fully read/seen/heard what he has said? I am not talking about what Dyson or the press or anyone else has said. But what he has said? In the beginning I was one of those who were on the "bash Cos" tip. Then I did some digging, plus I viewed the entire webcast that he hosted recently, and I gotta say, there is much about what people say he said that I just see no evidence of. On the webcast he basically said he doesn't care anymore about people selectively choosing to quote him: He's about rolling up sleeves and doing something about the situations he has said something about.
One thing he said that I will never forget: He said that one of his major messages (that the press has not featured) is "Our children are trying to tell us something and we are not listening."
ANyway, say what you will--and certainly disagree if you must (I still disagree with much of what he says), but I encourage us to listen before we take the word of others.
Re: The "triumph" of "The White Man." I tell you who is at the top of the list of who powerful men do NOT talk about when they are in their rooms of power: Us Black folk. The beauty of institutionalizing things (e.g., racism, sexism, colonialism) is that after a point real live people do not have to actually talk or do much of anything for the effects to keep on rolling. Preserve the system, you preserve the effects. Get the folks being negatively impacted to actually assist in preserving the system, and all the better.
But bottom line: The White Man ain't stud'in you. He doesn't have to.
Now, one more piece of personal news: I turned in my dissertation this week! Now everything is out of my hands until I present my work later this month. So soon I won't be just a regular ole fool, but an edjumacated fool!!!
Have a great weekend, everybody.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6441
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:04 pm: |
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Kola,
You're being a tad SELECTIVE in how you define HATE.
I think you could argue Quincy's utter refusal to even date - much less mate and marry - a Black women is fair HIGH grade of LOATHING. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5125
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
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Good for you, Yvette! You know you're who I want to be like when I grow up. LOL. As for your astute remarks, l agree. The pillar of institutionalized racism can't be toppled by a lot of talk and demands and simplistic solutions. That's why the Black Panthers wanted to "bring this mutha down". |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6442
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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Kola,
Which came first: The chicken or the egg? The effete Black man or the weak Black woman's whose womb from which he was wrought? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6443
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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Yvettep,
So much has been written, said and aired about and pertaining to Cosby, it's difficult to discern how COMPLETE any ONE persons accounting of it might be.
But since you've made a point of that, lemme ask you: Does ANY part of what you've witnessed include Cosby asserting or inferring that our issues and problems are born from ALL African Americans; not just Black men, our poor, undereducated, etc.
Because if it does, PUUULEASE post a link here and I'll HAPPY read and acknowledge such and EVEN consider revising my opinion and position.
At some point, the issue has got to be LESS about whether or not we agree with Cosby and MORE about should and must be done, which will likely include some of what Cosby prescribe. And some of what Cosby ignores. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 588
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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"BTW, the people at the post office are examples of the ones I was talking about in my post, folks who are not the black elite but are hardworking people who lead independent lives."
Come on now. COSBY? Nah. The Coz would expect a grown woman to have obtained enough EDUCATION to get a better job than THAT. We're talking about the Coz, remember? You alright in my eyes, but the Coz would call you a lazy, igg-nant ass knucklehead and a slacker. That's why I'm fiddin ready to slap the Coz: Don't mess with my Cynnique, Shyyyyyiiiiiit.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6444
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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Yukio,
I, for the grace of GOD, am but one or 2 incidents away (some of which I actually DID) from living a very DIFFERENT life.
One of which in all likelihood might have resulted in my not even being AROUND long enuff for our ever becoming acquainted.
And THAT'S a most COMMON story for Black people - especially Black MEN - in this country (and world).
Sure we're all responsible and accountable for ourselves. But if a White woman has 100 chances to fail and a Black man 2, is THAT a world we want to settle for and accept? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1498
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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Cynique: I understand how the "real world" operates, but institutionalized injustice-- be it racism, misogyny, or classism--is also the real world. That people live, eat, die, and shit w/o an understanding of this doesn't change the fact that there is a system controlled by whites that is in operation.
ABM:
A General Program: In the far off past, I have always said that our battle is on two fronts, the Internal and the External.
Internal[this is also very much addressed to my elder Cynique]:
As I see it, it is not about commending or blaming anyone. Its about helping people help themselves and having a true sense of community. There are middle class black folk raising good citizens, but are they raising civic minded people aware of the world's problems? Everyone can not be a soldier. That is, everyone can not or will not fight the good fight for black people. But to commend people for what they should do anyone way aint gonna change the plight of black folk.
Regarding, the socalled ghetto people. I am one of them, as you know. And I have done ok, but also know that some people, most in fact, were not bless as I was or am, didn't receive the help and mentoring I received. So, Cynique, you are right! People have to be responsible for themselves. No doubt!
We must also realize that can't everybody make it big. That some people dont have any drive for success. That some people will be among the hard working poor, and be alright. That their children will then be among the hard working lower middle-class. In other words, some of us, based on individual drive, intellect, mentoring, luck, and God's grace, will advance faster than others. But what I speak of is what we do for ourselves as individuals.
External:
There is also the other side, of which you, that is my elder ABM, and Kola, though differently, speak. That is, how do we defend ourselves and fight the battle with white folk? For we can NOT win if we only improve our individual family units and wealth. There has to be a change in the system, a la the Matrix [or we can read an oldie but goodie, Black Power by brothers Charles Hamilton and Stokely Carmichael].We have to organize and fight white folk! We have to organize and deal with our colorism! We have to organize and deal with intraracial conflict among african americans, west indians, and africans. And we have to organize and deal with other people of color, not for the sake of being multicultural, but because we may need their help! I'm talkin politics...if we look at any war, we see countries joining arms, breaking away, etc...
Look at Russia during WWII w/joined Hitler, then Hitler shited on them and the Russians joined the Allied Forces....We can work w/Asians and Latinos when necessary but when we disagree we leave them alone, as it is right for us.
Du Bois and Malcolm wanted to go to the United Nations and argue that African Americans were an exploited nation within a nation under the racism control of the United States. This is why Malcolm toured Africa, so that he could get Africans support in the United Nation. While TransAfrica may not be perfect, it contribution to Haiti and South Africa can not be neglected!
We can commend black families for saving their money, paying their bills on time, educating their children, and their children going off getting MDs, PhDs, JDs, and MBAs, Cynique. But if these children and their parents are not using their gifts to help their own people....then we are commending them for being good people...NOT good black people.
There is a difference:Because this conversation is about the Global War Black Folk are having with white folk for our survival as Black people. It is not about whether black people are good people, righteous people. That should be taken for granted. The humanity, the good, bad, and the ugly of black people should be taken for granted. So that it is great that some folk are doing great for their families, but that is a family matter, but are they doing something for the Black family. In this sense blackness is about the preservation of a black people, comprising many cultures, languages, and values, and dare I say colors [Kola be nice!]. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 589
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
|
"Though Blacks in Rwanda and Sudan have no
problem slaughtering each other---when have you
EVER seen such aggression by Blacks against
Whites or Arabs??????"
Come on, baby, preach it, preach it!!
And while you're at it, throw in the black-on-black crime in the streets of Philly, Detroit, NY, NJ, D.C., Chicago, Cali...and so on and so on and so on. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1500
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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Brother ABM: You are correct! It is not the kind of world with which we should settle. Dare I say, you have misunderstood my point. You must have read the previous version, so check this one out. BUT, even in the deleted version, I was not solely buttressing personal responsibility. In fact, I was saying that personal responsiblity has its limits because it does not address the fact that we are operating in a system. We are not free floating individuals working hard...the survival of the fittest is a half truth if understood from an individualist perspectivee. It would make more sense if we saw it on a global scale, that is white against black or white against non-white...and non-white against other non-whites! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6445
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Yukio,
Perhaps my wording is confusing. But I CONCUR with you 100% and was simply offering my personal perspective in support of part of the larger, broader point you've made.
Because I AGREE the battles must be won ABOUT us and WITHIN us. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5127
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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You know this is an ongoing debate with us, Yukio. And, yes, I know, babe. The white spaces between the black lines make up a sentence that defines racism. What to do, what to do??. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3256
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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ABM,
Quincy Jones LOVES black women.
And he has ALWAYS been there for them.
And yes--he has only dated/married white
women.
He isn't attracted to black women, and I
even suspect his real desire---is other men.
But the fact is...he has never "badmouthed"
black women. He only PRAISES them.
He has never ignored, avoided or been out
of touch with black women.
And because of him, quite a few BLACK WOMEN
have their own business, their kids in college
and all kinds of other support, because of
this man who loves White women.
What I'm trying to show you
...is that there is a big difference between a man who holds
nothing against black women...and one who
scapegoats, demonizes and blames us for his choice in mating white.
Every other black asshole whines about the
inferiority of black women driving him to a
white one----while Quincy Jones has always
done just the opposite----praised BLACK women,
had them as Friends and admitted that his
attraction is to White ones, and also admitted
that he may be a little "colorstruck".
I'm sorry ABM. But I can respect and embrace
a man who ADMITS his shit and doesn't blame
it on me or his mother.
This is also why I love Spike Lee's colorstruck
ass. He publicly admitted it, said he feels
ashamed that he's colorstruck---that he thinks
it's a sickness and it's wrong---but he LET BLACK WOMEN OFF THE HOOK!!!
He refused to unfairly demonize US for what his problem. And he called it "a problem" that "Brothas" have.
ABM---I am a very forgiving/understanding woman as long as a man tells the TRUTH about his shit.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6449
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:00 pm: |
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Kola,
I've never actually seen, heard or even known James Earl's views about Black women. Really. I hardly recall seeing/hearing ANYTHING about his personal life and views. While Quincy's rejection of Black women seems much more apparent to me while what you describe of his support of Black women less evident.
And when I add to the mix your revulsion of Harry Belafonte who appears, at least, to have a very public record of supporting Black efforts and cause throughout the world, I must say I find you positions to be quite 'eclectic' in nature...and color. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3260
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:04 pm: |
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I hate that fucking Belafonte.
His SUPPORT of black efforts is only because his mulatto ass had nowhere else to make a name and get rich.
He's a white supremacist.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3261
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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I'm going to write a book about those men.
A big Hollywood novel.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6456
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:16 pm: |
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Kola,
I'm intrigued by your loathing of Belafonte and Sidney Poitier.
Almost sense it to be an adverse reaction to a failed crush or something. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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ABM and Cynique: Thank You.
Kola: YOu are right about honesty! But when has Belafonte denigrated black women? I think he is a great black man. I can both dislike folk's personal choice and but praise their community and racial committment. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5133
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 02:26 pm: |
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Well, Tonya contrary to what you may believe, the Post Office is more than just sorting mail and delivering letters. It does have office jobs and management positions and it does pay decent money to those workers who make "regular". |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 598
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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No....Kola isn't sexually attracted to Quincy Jones, therefore, he's no threat. She feels much more of a pull towards Belafonte and Poitier, and knowing that they wouldn't give her the time of day burns her up. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6475
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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Schakspir,
I wouldn't completely concur with what you describe. But I can't help thinking there's SOMETHING there. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 599
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 04:56 pm: |
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ABM:
Schakspir,
If Whites truly have been �master thieves�, don�t you think it LONG past due for Black to be �security experts�?
And HOW were Whites able to enslave and colonize Blacks?
Was it simply because they were much more malevolent? Or was it because they have possessed effective tools and methodologies?
ALL people have and will lie, cheat, steal and kill. Perhaps what distinguishes Whites from the rest of us has been the audacious EFFICIENCY by which they have effected such.
Schakspir:
Easy. West African civilizations in 1450 were more advanced than those of Europe. However, West Africans were NOT developing firearms. Europeans were. That made all the difference.
Here's another thing. Europeans are also masters at intrigue--primarily because they are unethical, cold-hearted bastards. They perfected these techniques in their own home countries before coming to Africa. Case in point: the Portuguese in Africa. When the Portuguese landed at Kilwa in 1503, they found an extremely prosperous city state with magnificent buildings, the ruins of which still stand and can easily be seen in photos(even on the Internet). The Portuguese, like the scumbags they were, presented themselves initially as friends, got into the good graces of the Kilwanis, and as soon as they had their trust, began to BURN Kilwa to the ground, and shoot the people. The Portuguese themselves documented this. The British, French, Dutch, etc., all used the same methods. They are cunning, but it doesn't make them better than the Africans. If you believe this, then you are a dumb fuck.
Kola:
Because "BLACK MEN" have always been the first
to sell out their brothers, their women and their children---that's REALLY why.
And that's exactly how it was done.
A few greedy dictator-Kings were given "mirrors", "ink pens" and "knives"
(and later white dwarf women) in exchange
for whatever land, natural resources and
human slave chattel they could provide.
And this is EXACTLY what is going on today
in Black America---the same sorry ass men
like Schakspir who make excuses for why it's
OK to hate black women and children, why it's
THEIR FAULT---why women like me are crazy and
don't deserve respect----why they can't do
anything about destructive Hip Hop culture and
everything else that sabotages black people
at the core.
Schakspir:
Translation: I still am NOT getting dick at this late date, poor me!
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Quash8
First Time Poster
Username: Quash8
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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A poorly framed Google query brought me here. Fascinating discussion, impressive variety of opinions. Like most white people, I suppose, I tend to see the world more in terms of class than race, that blacks are more 'disdvantaged' by institutional racism than whites are 'advantaged' by the same system.
Someone midthread mentioned that elite whites are not talking about about blacks and how to keep them down. The thing that white middle America fears monolithically (as opposed to the divide in whether to embrace or fear Dubya) is my kid's third grade class picture.
He attended the public school two blocks away. His teacher looks a little stressed out, perhaps because only 3 of her 25 students are reading at grade level. Those three are in the back row: my kid and the only two black kids. This teacher is not bilingual certified, but 22 of her students are ESL. The district is short of ESL teachers
So, I'm keeping my Spanish skills up. Y ustedes? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1302
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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Thanks, Cynique!!!
Re: Does ANY part of what you've witnessed include Cosby asserting or inferring that our issues and problems are born from ALL African Americans; not just Black men, our poor, undereducated, etc.
Again, look at the webcast that I posted a while back. And tell me what you think of his comment: "Our children are trying to tell us something but we are not listening." Who do you think he was talking about when he said "WE"? Another message from the webcast was that every institution has failed inner city, young Blacks--schools, Black churches, families, employment--and that is a big part of the problem.
But do not take my opinion at face value: Take a look at the webcast and tell me what you think then.
Quash8, I hear you. And, yeah, sometimes an errant googlesearch can lead you to some interesting places! |
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