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Aurora
Newbie Poster
Username: Aurora
Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 06:16 pm: | 
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Local Black Newspaper Continues to Stir Community-Wide Dialogue By Asking the Question "Can Black Women Raise Black Boys to Be Black Men?"
Springfield, IL - The Capital City Courier (CCC), a local black newspaper, has done it again! Following up on their nationally acclaimed cover story entitled "Why Can't Blacks Work Together", the CCC continues to create a buzz throughout its central Illinois circulation area with its latest question "Can Black Women Raise Black Boys To Be Black Men?" The article, which includes interviews with single mothers, has once again brought to the surface a simmering debate within the black community. This time the issue is related to the alarmingly high proportion of single, female headed households and the inevitable challenge presented in raising boys in particular. Also weighing in on the discussion regarding this perplexing issue is noted author and lecturer, Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu.
"I simply want to continue to put into print what is being expressed and discussed by blacks almost everyday throughout our community," stated Michael Pittman, the editor-in-chief of the Capital City Courier. "I will continue to believe that if we are going to see real progress on the issues that concern our black community, we must become more comfortable raising the issues that sometimes make us uncomfortable," he continued.
"Some have accused us of somehow overlooking the tremendous sacrifices and wonderful commitment of single mothers by asking this question," Pittman stated. "Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, we salute the women that are raising their sons by themselves but also recognize that they need the help of the entire village to have the greatest opportunity to be successful," he continued.
Pittman once again expressed his desire to see meaningful solutions, strategies and commitments by blacks from every segment of the community emerge from dialogue that has resulted due to the article. "In fact, I can only hope this article spurs similar responses across America much like the first one," Pittman concluded.
For additional information on the Captial City Courier or the "Can Black Women Raise Black Boys To Be Black Men?" article, contact Michael Pittman at (217) 528-2998 or visit the CCC's website at www.capitalcitycourier.org |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2858
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 6 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 06:18 pm: |
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What choice do they have?
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Semperfemme
Veteran Poster
Username: Semperfemme
Post Number: 54
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 06:39 pm: |
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I think only men can raise boys to be men.
Eeep, please don't come munching my head off for feeling that way. While a woman can raise a man to be an upstanding citizen, she won't be able to teach him the "manly-arts" as I like to call them. The great thing about two-parent rearing is that (in healthy circumstances) it can teach men how to live with women, how a relationship with a woman is supposed to be, and through example, that man shows his son how to care for not only himself, but a family.
I also think that the absence of a father-figure subconsciously sends the idea to young men that women really don't need them to raise a family. This may make them more prone to not feeling the need to marry as well as having children out of wedlock.
More does need to be done to give these youth guidance. It'd be cool if there was some kind of "surrogate father" program, that connects young boys with a man that they can converse and bond with well into their adult years. It can be open to professionals and servicemen who wouldn't mind dedicating a portion of their life to someone else.
Off topic, but there's also matchmaking places that hook men and women up who have children. It may seem biased but it's an option. The couple dating will know what the other is going through and they may have a lot more in common since a child can really damper a social life.
blah, just throwing out ideas |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2860
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 06:52 pm: |
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Semper,
I agree with a LOT of what you say.
The only problem is....IN AMERICA...how do you get young black men to committ to marriage to young black women?
There is a STIGMA on black women. Many forgo even having children, because there are no mates for "certain" black women---usually the blackest.
But then again---Black women are HUMAN BEINGS. Their instincts and nature's law will drive them to have babies, even if the men will not stay, because GOD intended for there to be black people on the earth.
It's a NON-QUESTION (Can black women raise black boys to be black men) that covers a set of more important questions that the "Black" community isn't willing to ask itself.
And for the record----black men abandon black women and black children, because that's what the community/society CONDITIONS them to do.
Until we can acknowledge that---nothing will change and it will always be the women's fault for getting pregnant.
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Semperfemme
Veteran Poster
Username: Semperfemme
Post Number: 57
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 07:25 pm: |
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Kola: When I read your post about Denzel Washington, I didn't fully understand it at first. Why look to Denzel at all, was my thought, he's just a celebrity. NOW I get why you are adamant about Black male celebrities marrying black women. They're so visible that they inevitably serve as role models. They almost become "replacement" fathers to young boys who have no one else but a television set.
They'll emulate what they see in the men they admire and if the men they admire marry only fair/white women, those young men gladly follow suit. I recall one verse in a song by a rapper known as T.I. where he brags about "ridin with a couple Latin broads and a China doll." Why mention it unless he intrisically feels that having these other races of women is somehow better than what he may have had before. 12+ year old boys take notice...
Still getting my thoughts together on this topic. Have a lot of rethinking to do. I guess things can't always be as simple as "turn off the t.v./radio" |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5901
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 07:48 am: |
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Here are some things I think will HAVE to happen to address the Black fatherlessness issue:
A) What I WISH would happen is that more fathers were given custody of child. By FORCE, if necessary. Because I think it's much more difficult to abandon a child that you're actively raising. This might compel many men to become much more THOUGHTFUL about their sexual behavior, including WHOM they lie down with, contraception, whether and with whom they'll marry and raise children, etc.
B) I also think at some point we're going to have to establish some form of widespread orphange system and take children away from irresponsible Black foks.
C) Black families and communities will have to begin to openly ostracize people who have children out-of-wedlock. This is, of course, tricky. Because obviously many otherwise very good/decent people - especially innocent children - will get caught up in the mix. But you simply can NOT enforce a standard of people raising children together UNLESS there is some form of punishment associated with their failing to do so.
If your son impregnates a woman - especially a young girl - and fails to do right by the child and woman, his kin and friends would disown him. If his employer discovers such about him, the employer should fire him.
D) And if a man/woman has +3 kids by +3 women/men NONE of which he/she have married, I think he's should be a candidate for forced sterilization.
THOSE are the kinds of things that might happen in a community/society that was really SERIOUS about foks being more RESPONSIBLE for the consequences of their lust. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1341
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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I agree with most of the points you have made ABM - BUT there are men out here who do not have a stable home environment and so I am against forcing children to reside with a man who is unstable, insufficient income, living with the next babymomma, etc. just to teach the Black man a lesson. Plus most women are reluctant to give up their children to be raised by their ex anyway. Sometimes for valid reasons and sometimes for selfish reasons. But yes, if the man is capable of providing for the child's physical and emotional needs, then I see no reason why more children aren't placed with their father. And more women should have the backbone to say - "Look, you're (crazy, whack, dumb, whatever) and so I'm gonna let you keep your little (crazy, whack, dumb, whatever) children. Here's my number. See ya!" I definitely do not believe that it's the woman who should be "stuck" with the children in each and every scenario. Women need to reclaim their own lives and go off and start anew just like the brothas been doing for all these years.
On your suggestion of sterilization - I think that's a great idea but why wait to do the three strikes thing. The brother should be sterilized after the first time that he fails to provide for his offspring and some shouldn't ever have children at all. And that policy should apply to some of these breeding heifers as well.
BTW - I'd be curious to know how many of the Black female members of this forum have actually RAISED a Black man on their own. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5912
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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Mzuri,
You're being made the (admittedly involuntary) recipient of an ABM Soapbox Moment. Please don't take it personally. 
I need to address something that you referenced to that's tangentally related to what we're discussing: The child does NOT belong to the mother. It is her responsibility. But it surely is NOT a possession that she can wield by her choosing.
I know that's a tuff concept for women - especially BLACK ones - to grasp. But just because you carry, birth and nurse the child, that does NOT mean you should be the sole or even the primary arbiter and steward of it's life and faith.
I promise you, Black people will NOT advance UNTIL we disabuse ourselves of this fallacious notion of the omnipotence of Black mothers.
'Cause, Frankly, A LOT of you ain't got no dayam business raising kids and would be doing yourselves and the kids the greatest of favors by giving'em up.
And fuhk this "starting anew" business. Hey. You made a kid. You help feed and raise a kid. PERIOD.
And that applies for both men and women.
Example: Dude. If you knocked up some girl while you're home from college during the summer, your a$$ should be made to transfer to a local school, get a job and share in raising that kid.
(Btw, I don't give a dayam that you're on basketball or football scholarship.)
And you should be made to give MORE than a passing thought about marrying its momma. Now its America. So, of course, nobody can make you marry her. But the family, community and society should think a lot LESS of you for not doing so.
I'm certainly not suggesting that a child be forced into some kind of dangerous environment. Certainly the views of sage judges and social workers should factor into what happens.
And certainly there would be some troubles and growing pains associated with attempting to RADICALLY re-configure the mindset of young Black men.
However, I also think we're only going to make many Black men be the kinds of fathers they need to be WHEN they're placed into the situations of having to do right. And I think for the sake of the broader community and society, some reasoned risks simply MUST be taken.
Bottomline: A LOT of this is about having FAITH.
Do we earnestly have the FAITH that our attempting to improve things will be successful?
Do we have FAITH that a young father who did grow up in the projects, without ever knowing who his father is and even after having done some prison time CAN and WOULD do what's necessary for him to be a good father?
If your answers to the above are "Yes", then there truly is hope for things to improve.
But if you think "No", then it likely does not matter what we attempt to do. Because our LACK of faith will surely doomed it.
PS: Note that I said both men AND women who indiscriminantly made babies would be subject to forced sterilization. But I think anyone should be allowed to recover from making 1 mistake, especially if such occurred when he/she were fairly young. That's why I suggested sterilization after 3 OOW births instead of only 1. |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 143
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 01:37 pm: |
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I know that's a tuff concept for women - especially BLACK ones - to grasp.
What evidence do you have that black women in particular are more likely than women of other races to have this inappropriate mentality? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2872
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 01:47 pm: |
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Well ABM....
after you got done saying all that shit about BLACK MOTHERS.....
I would still wager that there's more "GOOD" Black mothers than "GOOD" Black fathers---by about 100 to 1 in this society.
Of course the sorry ass men never get evaluated, which is another HUGE part of the problem, sexist-ass.
And on your list of things that the black community needs to do.....#1 should be that we need to actively change the way Black females are SEEN by Black males----biologically----as this here is the single greatest reason why your daughters would be LIED TO, fucked and deserted with a baby-----it's because they're BLACK in the first goddamned place.
Until the community can face that bitter truth, all the other stuff you listed will be VOID.
A black male is likely to MARRY and take care of somebody else's kids with a Mexican woman before he would his own kind, and we can't ignore that.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2873
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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I know that's a tuff concept for women - especially BLACK ones - to grasp.
Bullshit, ABM.
All women of all races are human beings,
not just the NON-blacks. Black mothers
feel just as every other mother feels.
And by the way....
Have you ever had a baby grow in your belly
for 9 months and then be born???
You have NO IDEA (!)---NONE---what that entails Psychologically, emotionally and spiritually.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING....is blaming innocent
young girls for being what they're supposed
to be......naive, gullible, emotionally pliant
and wanting to be loved.
That's HUMAN.
It's also the same quality little white and
latina and Asian girls have----that makes any
woman into a PLEASANT, LOVING WIFE.
Only difference is...in "black girls", it
sets them up to be exploited and abandoned.
Because what is not HUMAN is the way that black
girls are viewed by the rest of the society.
Which is what creates this situation----NOT
some "character flaw" inherent in black women.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5913
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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Black_wisdom_,
ANY casual observation Black history and culture would support what I've asserted. If you argue otherwise, then we'll simply agree to disagree and I'll await your tendering some more substantive contribution to this dialog.
Kola,
And it's like an Italian friend told me when we were discussing assorted marital issues: "Hey, [ABM]. We can't BOTH be the boss."
The Black mother is glorified ad infinitum through out our history, culture, art, etc. But then we expect Black males to grow into competitive, powerful...DOMINANT Black MEN. You GOTTAH know that there's gottah been some balancing here.
Kola. How many of the Black men who seek non-Black women do so because with them they THINK at least with them they can be MEN? That they don't have to navigate the iconography of Black motherhood.
How many brotha want DESPERATELY to tell Black women - whom they love dearly - to Shut the hell up so I can fuhking think? but are scared shytless to do so because they KNOW the shyt will be prelude to their catching a Domestic Violence charge?
If you want a man to be a good, strong father and leader, we'd better start championing such amongst our mindset and rhetoric. And such will - no MUST - include some regression of the deification of Black motherhood.
I hear you on all that splendor of child and mother stuff. But you can only take a me, a MAN, so far with that.
Because while you want to comfort and nurse me, I want to dance and scream in fire. You don't know that. You CAN'T really know it.
Only another man, a FATHER, can and does. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1342
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:14 pm: |
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ABM - Thanks for your insightful response. When I said start anew - I meant just that. Men do it all the time. They leave the families that they created and go off and start a brand new one with someone else, and seemingly never give a second thought (or financial support) to their first family. Why can't a woman do the same. What about equal rights. Yes, the mother bore and birthed the baby, but that does not necessarily create an eternal attachment. Nor a maternal one. Some women are simply not maternal and just because you bore a baby doesn't make you so.
In our society, it is automatically assumed that the mother should bear the burdens of raising the children after her man (a) dies, (b) leaves because he got bored, found a better chick, went back to his old girlfriend, (c) came out of the closet, or (d) whatever other reasons why women are left alone to raise, support and fend for themselves and their children without the father. This is a trend that can easily be changed if more women would do what I have suggested. Don't just take on that burden because it is expected of you. Liberate yourself, leave your man and his offspring, and get yourself a new man and a new life. Equal opportunity for all. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5919
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:20 pm: |
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Mzuri,
Just because men have done it that don't make it right.
It was/is WRONG when men did it. And it is/will be just as WRONG if/when women do it (and, btw, I happen to KNOW women who've done it).
Moreover, A LOT of women are getting stray babies and STD's trying to match the misbehavior of men.
Don't do something simply because some fool man does it. Do what's RIGHT. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 471
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:27 pm: |
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"All women of all races are human beings,
not just the NON-blacks. Black mothers
feel just as every other mother feels.
And by the way....
Have you ever had a baby grow in your belly
for 9 months and then be born???
You have NO IDEA (!)---NONE---what that entails Psychologically, emotionally and spiritually.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING....is blaming innocent
young girls for being what they're supposed
to be......naive, gullible, emotionally pliant
and wanting to be loved.
That's HUMAN.
It's also the same quality little white and
latina and Asian girls have----that makes any
woman into a PLEASANT, LOVING WIFE.
Only difference is...in "black girls", it
sets them up to be exploited and abandoned.
Because what is not HUMAN is the way that black
girls are viewed by the rest of the society.
Which is what creates this situation----NOT
some "character flaw" inherent in black women."
Warmed-over Alice Walker crap.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2881
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:33 pm: |
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ABM,
#1---I agree that black boys NEED black men to raise them. I have said 1 million times how lucky my sons are to have their father raising them.
WHO---anywhere---hasn't championed a black man wanting to become a good father and husband????
Have I not deified Thomas on this board???
Denzel Washington is DEIFIED by Black American women like no other. The women on this board respect and adore YOU with similar glee---at your RARENESS.
But you're totally wrong about BLACK WOMEN and them wanting to dominate men---the stereotypes you keep posting about "black females"----are ATROCIOUS!!!! And they're grossly unfair.
There are COUNTLESS, sweet, tender young black girls who are docile and adoring---who WANT to be everything black men want them to be---and they still get ABANDONED "with baby" by black males.
Why do you think these women are out here with blond weaves and blue contacts in their heads for???
Why do you keep ignoring the FACT that it doesn't matter how good/how sweet a black female is to a black young man---she's not good enough---because we have TRADITIONALLY sacrificed her "worth" to blow up his!!!
TELL ME ABM.....exactly WHERE in black media/culture...do Black men celebrate black women or marriage or fatherhood?
WHERE?
These so called DOMINEERING black women, ABM, are the result of being ABANDONDED...having NO CHOICE but to play both roles.
If we had BLACK MEN in the black community who RAISED their daughters, ABM--men who aren't repulsed by the idea of loving a black woman--men who...
.....wanted to be "men" for Black women and children---then we wouldn't have these strong ass women, who really HAVE to be strong.
You really can't handle the TRUTH about the majority of your brothas---because no matter HOW GOOD a black woman is, the majority of your brothas will FIND SOMETHING wrong with her--she just doesn't have STATUS ABM.
But you will be finding that out with your own daughters. TRUST ME.
And lets get something straight ABM:
I see black men shacked up with the most foul-mouthed, neck-twisting, attitude-laden DOMINEERING White/Latina women all day long....but for some reason...a black man will cut off his right testicle to MAKE IT WORK (make it work!!!!) with a Non-black woman.
He keeps his "disagreements" and "problems" with her SECRET---and if they break up, because she can't take the pressure of being an IR couple or if she dumps him for not having job-----it's OK---he just waits until he can find another NON-Black bitch.
Color determing STATUS.
ABM,
Your daughters...your daughters...can have the biggest smiles, be the best cooks, never raise their voices and empathize with a black man to no end....and NONE of their good qualities will EVER overcome the fact that they are "Black girls" in this society.
IT IS NOT BLACK WOMEN'S FAULT THAT SINCE 1980....70% OF BLACK CHILDREN ARE RAISED BY SINGLE MOTHERS.
Black women are "HUMAN BEINGS", they are no different than any other women.
The problem is...since 1980...Black men "don't haul no coal".
Check 1920 for a better understanding.
This has nothing to do with "MOTHERING SKILLS" or black women's attitudes.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5924
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:33 pm: |
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Schakspir,
Okay. But then, really, why you REPEAT all of it? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2882
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:45 pm: |
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You know what, ABM--fuck you AND Schakspir.
If you're not SMART ENOUGH to acknowledge the vast wisdom of your own women's opinions then therein lies the problem.
Your SEXISM is disgusting!
And I am a BLACK MOTHER---so is your wife---and I don't appreciate your goddamned stereotypes about "BLACK WOMEN"---fuck you!!!
If it wasn't for us SORRY ASS BLACK MOTHERS, then how would black children even survive!!?
You think that evil twisted motherfucker Schakspir gives a goddamn about BLACK children???
He hates black women! And you think we should listen to HIM and not to Alice Walker?
No wonder we're doomed!
Every time I turn on the t.v. or radio, there's some black man (who black boys look up to) RAPPING about the inferiority of black women---
but then you have the GALL, the fucking gall, to come in here bitching about black women's unworthiness.
"Use her booty for sex---I'm ridin'n with my Snowflake"
MAN PLEASE!
I've lived in this country over 25 years---it's not YOUR women that are causing this problem.
Your women really are desperate and have nowhere to turn.
It's your SONS in this country that are SCUM.
Big fucking selfish ass materialistic colorstruck babies.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:46 pm: |
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Pittman once again expressed his desire to see meaningful solutions, strategies and commitments by blacks from every segment of the community emerge from dialogue that has resulted due to the article.
Do Black woman/man-blaming, orphanages, or forced sterilizations really represent meaningful solutions? I hope not. I hope that is just our collective (and warranted) frustration and sadness.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2883
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:49 pm: |
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THIS IS WHAT THEY
CALLED "WARMED OVER ALICE WALKER"
CRAP----and ABM is supposed
to be the father of 2 daughters:
All women of all races are human beings,
not just the NON-blacks. Black mothers
feel just as every other mother feels.
And by the way....
Have you ever had a baby grow in your belly
for 9 months and then be born???
You have NO IDEA (!)---NONE---what that entails Psychologically, emotionally and spiritually.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING....is blaming innocent
young girls for being what they're supposed
to be......naive, gullible, emotionally pliant
and wanting to be loved.
That's HUMAN.
It's also the same quality little white and
latina and Asian girls have----that makes any
woman into a PLEASANT, LOVING WIFE.
Only difference is...in "black girls", it
sets them up to be exploited and abandoned.
Because what is not HUMAN is the way that black
girls are viewed by the rest of the society.
Which is what creates this situation----NOT
some "character flaw" inherent in black women.
|
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:52 pm: |
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And for the record, many of these "solutions" are either alive and well, or have been practiced in the past:
*various sterotypes of the inadequacies, hypersexualization, etc. etc. of Black men and women as parents
*the greater likelihood of parental rights being terminated if the mother is African American--even in similar situations of pverty, abuse/neglect allegations
*juvenile detention and residential treatment centers serving as de facto orphanages, where even children who are "rescued" from abusive situations can end up (that is, they have committed no crimes themselves)
*"Mississippe apendectomies"--forced sterilizations, practiced in the name of american eugenics
*the routine removal/sale of Black children from the women who birthed them at the whim of slaveholders
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1343
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 03:54 pm: |
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ABM - You've missed my point dearest. I'm not suggesting complete abandonment. I'm simply agreeing with what you initially suggested - that more men should be made to bear the burden of dealing with the day-to-day struggles of raising a child. Because it's not as easy as it looks. And BTW - I've been there, done that, got the motherfuckin t-shirt!!! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2886
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 04:06 pm: |
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MISS YVETTE---
Until "COLOR and STATUS" are addressed by the black community......all the other factors/conditions are meaningless, because those REPORTS "assume" that Black men see Black women the way that White men see White women.
Therein is the WHOLE problem.
We have a "mechanism" within us that will not accept each other and ABANDON based on lack of STATUS that afflicts us all.
When in the fuck is somebody, somewhere going to address that largest of all FACTS?????
Being married to "Keisha" just doesn't impress my homies--so fuck Keisha and the baby--I'm outta here.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2887
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 04:18 pm: |
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Well,
I guess I just blew it with ABM.
ABM, I'm sorry for yelling at you.
I didn't mean it.
But I just so disagree with you on this.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1243
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 04:22 pm: |
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those REPORTS "assume" that Black men see Black women the way that White men see White women
If you're talking about the original article, I agree--and I'd say "...and vice versa." The same might be true of solutions that call for increased education and job training for Black men, to make them more "marriage-able," thus lessening the occurrence of single Black female headed households (and boys--and girls--not being rearing in a home with a fathers).
Will Black men who become "more marriage-able" and responsible automatically choose Black women as partners?
What constitutes "marriage-able" Black women? As suggested on another thread, might it be te case that the more education and job success she has the less likely she is to be seen as a good catch for a Black man?
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Sunshinespirit
Newbie Poster
Username: Sunshinespirit
Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 06:54 pm: |
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Can Black Women Raise Black Boys to Be Black Men?"
Now we most certainly can…if a Black woman had a father who was a man…she knows what a man is…and she will instruct her son(s) accordingly… if a man has the wrong morals he can not raise a boy to be a man…I do not care if he is green, grey, or whatever…it is not the color but the content of the character of the man or woman…
I raised 4 sons…many things their father would and could not teach them…his mother and father where present in his home and he left much to be desired…but my sons are all good men…2 have children and they take care of their children and they are with them….the other 2 have no children…
This is what the question should have been…
“Can a Women Raise Boys to be Men?”
So when you raise them to be men…they conduct themselves as men…they don’t let the fact about the color of their skin get in the way…and they accomplish much…I know to many Black Men who are in positions of power and are with Black women…but they see themselves as Men…..
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Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 479
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:10 am: |
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Abm: I know that's a tuff concept for women - especially BLACK ones - to grasp. But just because you carry, birth and nurse the child, that does NOT mean you should be the sole or even the primary arbiter and steward of it's life and faith.
Schakspir: Precisely. This is something my own mother in particular does not understand, which is why our relationship is rather strained. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 480
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
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"But you're totally wrong about BLACK WOMEN and them wanting to dominate men---the stereotypes you keep posting about "black females"----are ATROCIOUS!!!! And they're grossly unfair."
Black spouses want to dominate EACH OTHER.
"There are COUNTLESS, sweet, tender young black girls who are docile and adoring---who WANT to be everything black men want them to be---and they still get ABANDONED "with baby" by black males."
Yeah. Most of them are African, not African-AMERICAN. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 481
Registered: 12-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:33 am: |
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Kola: I see black men shacked up with the most foul-mouthed, neck-twisting, attitude-laden DOMINEERING White/Latina women all day long....but for some reason...a black man will cut off his right testicle to MAKE IT WORK (make it work!!!!) with a Non-black woman.
Schakspir: Well, I had two like that, one white, the other Latina, and I gladly kicked both to the curb once they showed their ass. The two best women I ever knew were white, and black. (Both weren't Americans.) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5945
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
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Kola,
I'm often AMAZED by how you're able to separate evil Black men from the Black women who raise and lie down with them.
There's NO friggin' WAY Black men can be as horrible as you describe were it not in LARGE part do Black men...and vice versa. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5946
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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Yvettep,
I don't pretend to be able to catagorically assert what should be considered "marriage-able". But I think the time to deliberate upon who are and are not such should occur long BEFORE some sista has garnered a graduate degree and a 6-figure salary. |
Robynmarie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 106
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 12:50 am: |
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What I want to know is can a white woman raise a (half) black man? I know of two white women with babies by brothas, and neither father is anywhere in sight. Both women now have white boyfriends. I just wonder what will happen to their sons? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5993
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 01:13 am: |
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Robynmarie,
Sounds like those boys Black pappies set them up for a lifetime of confusion. |
Robynmarie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 107
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 05:45 am: |
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Abm
you are so right. One of the ww named her son Pierre. Now we live in L.A., so I am not sure how well Pierre is going to go over in the streets. Pierre's Dad is Nigerian.
Just hope Pierre and others like him have good black male role models.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5997
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 10:20 am: |
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Robynmarie,
Alas, some Black men worship White women and p*$$y only to discover neither of which is divine.
And the children are the hapless consequence of their former Caucasian idolatry. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 581
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
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"If it wasn't for us SORRY ASS BLACK MOTHERS, then how would black children even survive!!?"
Wow! Good point! I'd like to see someone refute that. Any takers....?????
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 582
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 05:55 pm: |
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"Schakspir: Well, I had two like that, one white, the other Latina, and I gladly kicked both to the curb once they showed their ass. The two best women I ever knew were white, and black. (Both weren't Americans.)"
Allrighhtttt.....!!! |
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