| Author |
Message |
    
Robynmarie
Newbie Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 08:23 am: | 
|
The cast of Akeela and the Spelling Bee was on Oprah yesterday, Angela Bassett, Larry Fishburne and the young actress,(forgive me, I forgot her name). While it looks like a great movie, there is a scene where Fisburne says "don't talk ghetto talk around me."
I don't understand the fascination with speaking the "Queen's English." If you don't speak "proper English" does that automatically make you black and dumb?
|
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 315
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 09:28 am: |
|
The short version of the answer would "Pretty much." The truth of the matter is that if a person intends to carve out out a niche in life at an acceptable standard of living,that person is going to have to interact with white people on a regular basis.In order to do that successfuly, they will need to be able to understand what the words coming out of your mouth mean, and they don't have to meet you half-way to make sure that understanding occurs.You can maintain, with some justification, that this is part of your culture and that it is your right to maintain the patterns of speech you grew up with.But by doing so, you are lowering the ceiling for yourself.Right and poor often go hand in hand.For some reason people equate the ability to speak clearly with the ability to think clearly.It isn't just the 'ghetto talk' that people find objectionable.Ignorant white folks in various parts of the country also have dialects that are completely unacceptable in any civilized setting.When I was a kid there were still those exceedingly backward white folks that used words like squoze, skun and sot.( bonus points awarded to any that can tell me what those words mean  )They are all three past tense forms of more familiar words.But if you go into the world that contains schools, decent housing and good jobs, people don't talk like that.If I move to France I would be well advised to pick up some french.If I want to be successful in America, I need to pick up some english in a form that is easily understood by the majority.You can agree or disagree, argue from a stance of Right or Fair, it doesn't really matter.Take a look at people that are successful in careers other than athletics or music and see how many black folks in that field speak 'ghetto talk'.There is a reason why they call it ghetto. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 422
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
|
You have to ask?
Not speaking proper English doesn't make you Black and dumb, but I guarantee that if you need to conduct any sort of meaningful business with white ppl, and if your livelihood depends upon it - you'd better get busy with some of the very best whitespeak you can manage. Could you imagine going to the whiteman for a job and standing there talking ghetto or Ebonics? Would you do that? Care to venture a guess of the ending result? Black ppl won't even hire you for talking that way.
And BTW we don't speak the Queen's English anyway - that is spoken in England and the surrounding regions. We speak American English. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2123
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 12:30 pm: |
|
Nonsense. Negroes want to be white.
There was a lawyer here. You might have heard of him. Morris Shenker. He was born in Poland. Sounded like he just got off the boat til the day he died.
He was a millionaire. A millionaire LAWYER. I never head anybody talk about how he talked to his face.
W.E.B. DuBois spoke beautifully. He never got to sit in the front of the bus. He died in the early sixties. Martin Luther King spoke beautifully. They blew his brains out.
Desperately you reach and reach for some way to blame Black people's situation on Black people.
"If only all Negroes spoke properly," you whine. "Then they would love us."
Go ahead. Hit me with your self loathing denials. I welcome them. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2343
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
|
Well said, Chris. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2124
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:19 pm: |
|
I just never can understand why all of our success strategies involve kissing somebody's butt.
Everybody does not want to be a tv or radio announcer, teacher, receptionist, work in customer service, etc.
Suppose you want to be an auto mechanic? A cop? A soldier? Suppose the white folks want to hire you to be a bouncer or a one of these toughs that stand around to intimidate the other black folks in the store? They ain't gonna care how you talk.
All bets are off, people. Look at who is President. It is not WHAT you know any more, if it ever was. It is WHO you know.
Y'all ought to be trying to figure out how to get you some MONEY instead of trying to sound like Sir Laurence Olivier--
And I'm glad that came up. There was this guy who worked in theater here in St. Louis. Darryl Maximilian Robinson. Beautiful voice. Perfect diction. Talked like Rex Harrison even when he was offstage.
Could not get a job. Too black, people. They couldn't have him playing MacBeth. He had to leave town.
You guys know better. I mean, really! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 423
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:22 pm: |
|
Well Chris - How do you speak? Do you speak in ghettoese or do you whitespeak? Do you sound like you're edumacated? Do you talk the way that you write? Tell the truth please. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2344
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:24 pm: |
|
If you are talented enough to sell their product, they don't give a damn what language you talk. Niggers need to understand that work is not synonymous with the plague. Stop trying to take the easy way out. God bless the Asians. They can't speak a lick of English but they make a mean ass goo goo gai pan. They make nice cars and TV's too. And they're rich.
|
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:28 pm: |
|
LMAO!!!!! @ Tonya and ChrisHayden LOL!!!
The universal language is money!!! When you have the cash you will speak-a Engrish well!!! LOL! |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1117
Registered: 07-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:38 pm: |
|
I think there are many ways people "talk" that have nothing to do with their color--but that's my personal opinion. However, I think, in general, Americans definitely stereotype when it comes to speech patterns and how it relates to ones skin color (it's unfortunate).
On another note, though I don't like to "box" individuals, there are certain types of "talk" I simply don't like to listen to because I find them annoying and ignorant sounding--especially in a professional setting. Surfer "talk", valley-girl "talk", and ghetto "talk" are the hardest on my ears.
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2345
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:57 pm: |
|
If those Surfers, Valley girls, or lyrically gifted thugs were making you a shit load of money you wouldn't care if they were playing at Carnegie hall.
My advice to people would be work hard on your craft because work pays...
and don't believe anything/anyone else.
|
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
|
Mzuri:
Now you know you should never ask a man to tell the truth... |
Grind
Newbie Poster
Username: Grind
Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
|
"God bless the Asians. They can't speak a lick of English but they make a mean ass goo goo gai pan. They make nice cars and TV's too. And they're rich."
Tonya,
Give me a break. While asian immigrants may have difficulty speaking English, you know damn well that they insist that their children speak proper, standard English. And guess what? Their kids go on to college and become doctors and engineers. Do you think second generation asians would be anywhere near as successful as they are if they didn't speak standard English?
Not to say that blacks wouldn't still be discriminated against even if all of us did speak perfect English, however, why should we further handicap ourselves by not speaking the language of the land?
We can speak black English amongst ourselves, but when trying to compete in a non-black world we do ourselves a great dis-service by not adapting.
Tonya, I'm disappointed in you. Your attitude is pure insanity. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2346
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:23 pm: |
|
...And if getting out of work is your craft then play on playah and be the best. Just don't be mad at me for working mine.
Black folks need to teach their kids how to compete.
In this country, that's the only way to do it with integrity and pride.
|
Grind
Newbie Poster
Username: Grind
Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
|
"Nonsense. Negroes want to be white."
Pure fucking insanity. We are the only people in America stupid enough to believe that speaking English properly is "wanting to be white." |
Robynmarie
Newbie Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:40 pm: |
|
I always think of Magic Johnson when folks go on about "talking ghetto." True, he was once a superstar basketball player. Today, he is a mega-successful, mega-rich businessman who gives back to the community one hundred-fold. And, Earvin's grammar is as broken as it gets.
Besides, lately, seems like all non-black people want to sound like us anyway. No what Im sayin'? |
Grind
Newbie Poster
Username: Grind
Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
|
"I always think of Magic Johnson when folks go on about "talking ghetto." True, he was once a superstar basketball player. Today, he is a mega-successful, mega-rich businessman who gives back to the community one hundred-fold. And, Earvin's grammar is as broken as it gets.
Besides, lately, seems like all non-black people want to sound like us anyway. No what Im sayin'?"
Robynmarie,
Magic Johnson earned a ton of money and notoriety as a BASTKETBALL PLAYER, then invested his money and leverage his celebrity into several successful business ventures. Only 1 in 10,000,000 black entrepreneurs start out as multimillionaire celebrity athletes.
Do you think the blacks who own/run the businesses on the Black Enterprise 100 could have made it where they are without speaking standard English?
http://blackenterprise.com/lists/BE100s.aspx?yr=is2005 |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4349
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:59 pm: |
|
Well, there is perfect English and then there is imperfect english. Ebonics is more like a dialect full of idioms. Bottom line, it's all about being articulate. Many people can express their ideas coherently and get their point across in imperfect english. The problem with speaking ghettoese is that when you get out in the world, it hinders your communcation with other people who don't understand it. Of course, this all academic if you are a jock or a rapper, because in that area, money talks. BTW, Magic Johnson's grammar has improved considerably over the years. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2348
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
|
Grind:
We can speak black English amongst ourselves, but when trying to compete in a non-black world we do ourselves a great dis-service by not adapting.
Tonya:
First of all, China is on the verge of becoming the world's next superpower. Are you saying that they are in this position after learning how to speak "perfect English?"
My point isn't that good English is not helpful. But it is nowhere near what an individual needs to compete. First he should be good at what it is that he's trying to succeed at. Then he has to know how to fine tune it until he is the best. That's what 'an honest day's pay' is all about. And if he is irreplaceable and knows it 'know who you are' he will definitely get paid his worth. 'The white man' sees money first and money doesn't always speak the King's English. Many times it does not. That's just one of the excuses we use out of terror; terrified to compete because we're ill-equipped to do so. Stop whining. Stop praying to the lord. Push your talent and if you're the best you'll receive the rewards. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 425
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:07 pm: |
|
Exactly, Magic Johnson is the exception, not the rule. He was a jillionaire from his basketball career prior to diversifying into all of his current business ventures. He can speak in any manner that he chooses, and that has nothing to do with an ordinary joe who needs to ask the whiteman for a job or to conduct business. It's not going to happen with Ebonics and hooked-on-phonics. |
Robynmarie
Newbie Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:32 pm: |
|
Most white people don't speak correct or even good English anyway.
Brief story: I interviewed a medical doctor once and he swore like a sailor. Dr. so-and-so was loaded down with degrees and awards and dollar bills and he couldn't put together a sentence without a four letter word. This was a business setting and he didn't know me from Adam.
I don't think first generation American parents insist their kids talk perfect English. In my neck of the woods, accents and inproper grammar runs amok among kids of all races.
It seems like only black folks are hung up on "perfect" English as indicator of conformity and intelliegence.
|
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 426
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:51 pm: |
|
Well Chris - I talk like I write. And on the telephone, if I try really really really hard - I can pass for a white girl. And in the business that I'm in, it's critical that I sound like a white girl, because most all of the ppl in this industry are white men. There aren't even that many women in the industry, it is dominated by men. And I can promise you that if they had any inkling, tiny suspicion, or clue that I am Black - they would not conduct business with me.
As I'm sure you know, business is much different than employment. Employment is covered by EEO laws, but in business - people can not be forced to conduct business with anyone. We are free to do business with whomever we choose. Or not. So I work the hell out of my whitespeak, because my livelihood depends upon it. And since it's such a lucrative livelihood - I don't give a care about what any of you think about me passing for white on the telephone. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2126
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:05 pm: |
|
Allright I'm back.
I talk like I need to talk. When I'm with people who know me I talk like I always talk.
When I'm trying to snow somebody I might talk any kind of way.
What Tonya said about those Asians is right. They can't talk worth crap and they are doctors and lawyers and businessmen and rich.
Robynmarie:
You are right. Black folks are the ones all hung up on proper English and not speaking ghetto and don't have two quarters to rub together and can't give you no job--just run you down.
Money talks and bushwah walks.
Grind:
No, it is not speaking properly it is the attitude you take to people who don't--which is only black people. Anybody else can talk the way they want and you folks just lap it up and grin. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2128
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
|
I remember that asshole Strom Thurmond how he used to talk like a sharecropper.
I bet none of you would have gone up to him and told him he needed to learn how to talk. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2350
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:21 pm: |
|
"Exactly, Magic Johnson is the exception, not the rule"
Yeah exactly!
You wanna know why? Because he WORKED hard, became the BEST, and was able to COMPETE.
We're focusing on the wrong things.
Is it helpful to know GOOD/STANDARD English? Yes.
But if you're looking for acceptance... MONEY TALKS.
I know MANY "second generation" African and Arab doctors. Not well though; you wanna know why? Cuz they don't speak English!!! Not well anyway.
But they all seem to be happy with their wonderful families and beautiful wives. |
Grind
Newbie Poster
Username: Grind
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:24 pm: |
|
"I know MANY "second generation" African and Arab doctors. Not well though; you wanna know why? Cuz they don't speak English!!!"
You know people who were born and raised in the US who don't speak English??! |
Grind
Newbie Poster
Username: Grind
Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:26 pm: |
|
"You are right. Black folks are the ones all hung up on proper English and not speaking ghetto"
What planet do you live on??? |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1118
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:27 pm: |
|
Tonya:
"If those Surfers, Valley girls, or lyrically gifted thugs were making you a shit load of money you wouldn't care if they were playing at Carnegie Hall."
Moonsigns:
Not true. Tonya, there are actually people in this world that live by healthy principles, and I wouldn't compromise my (healthy) core principles in order to make a dollar. And if I happened to own a business I would want all of my employees to speak standard English, because at the heart of every successful and respsectable business is effective communication--I would want everyone to be on the same page. It has nothing to do with color.
Tonya:
....."lyrically gifted thugs".....
Moonsigns:
What an oxymoron!
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2351
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:40 pm: |
|
....."lyrically gifted thugs".....
Moonsigns:
What an oxymoron!
Tonya:
Or maybe you're just a moron (!), sis.
Prove me wrong.
What the hell are you talking about?
|
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 427
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
|
RM - If your mind is already made up - next time just state your case and tell the rest of us not to bother to post. If you don't want to speak proper English - then drive on GirlFriend. And more power to you. |
Robynmarie
Newbie Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:53 pm: |
|
It's called discussion. You know, exchanging ideas. Debate. I like to hear what other people think. You're not threatened by that,right? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2352
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 05:00 pm: |
|
Now wait a minute.... Now that I've read it again you could just be a racist.
But moron's the prerequisite for racist, hmmm.
So that would still make you a moron.
Whatever! Just prove me wrong.
|
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 428
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
|
I don't understand the fascination with speaking the "Queen's English."
I always think of Magic Johnson when folks go on about "talking ghetto."
Most white people don't speak correct or even good English anyway.
And I repeat - If you don't want to speak proper English - then drive on GirlFriend. And more power to you.
|
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 316
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 05:24 pm: |
|
Chris, I used to think that you were just playing around,but I'm beginning to think that you actually believe all of that stupidity you spew forth.Here we go, one point at a time.
1)Morris Shenker, as you noted,was born and raised in Poland.That means that he grew up speaking polish, not english.He was also white.Are you trying to suggest that you, a man that grew up in america, with english as your first language should hold yourself to no higher standard than someone who picked up english as an adult?If so, you are an idiot and society will hold you to a higher standard whether you like it or not.
2)Are you trying to suggest that W.E.B. Dobois was being penalized for being articulate?Or that there were black folks that could sit towards the front of the bus?If so, then you are an idiot,since segregation was universal at that time.His being articulate did help remedy that situation.
3) Are trying to suggest that Dr. King's ability to express his ideas with precision and clarity availed him nothing? If so, then you are an idiot.All men die.If not by bullet then by disease or age or misadventure.The difference is the legacy they leave.His speaks for itself.Yours a person would have to research very thoroughly to produce a paragraph a hundred years from now.
4)Are you trying to suggest that people will believe that you are competent enough to repair their car, enforce the law, etc..If they can barely understand what you are saying?If so, then you are an idiot.I took my rock solid seventh grade education and turned that into being one of those auto mechanics you speak of.And by training myself to be the best of the best at what I did and by learning basic communications skills, I turned that into a career that has resulted in the situation we have now.I pay more in tips than you pay in taxes.Just how the hell would you know what does and does not work in the real world? If you had ever actually had a real job you might realize just how stupid you truly are,because people would have been more than happy to share that little bit of information with you.I have seen many black people fail miserably at the game of life and I have seen a few come away with the brass ring.You just keep on encouraging people to remain as ignorant as they choose, since that is there Right and Privilege as God's Children and to cast off the threadbare, unworkable idea that society must come to them is to kiss butt's and wannabe white.That makes life that much easier for my daughter and for her children because people that heed your stupidity have withdrawn themselves entirely from competition, you stupid, stupid man. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2353
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 05:24 pm: |
|
Grind,
You know people who were born and raised in the US who don't speak English??!
Tonya:
Well. I said well.
Many people who were born here speak their parent's/grand parent's language as their first language and English as their second. And, yes, they struggle with English. I have Hispanic friends, several successful, who speak HORRIBBLE English. And in addition, some of them have such heavy accents that at times it's difficult to understand them. Which can sometimes be frustrating; but only because I feel stupid for being the one that doesn't understand.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4351
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 05:35 pm: |
|
Most of these foreigners who are speaking English as a second language, are skilled professionals. There may be a little trouble understanding their syntax but there are no reservations about taking advantage of what they have to offer. But - let people embrace their ghetto speech on a matter of principle, and see how far it gets them. Me, I'm placing my money on those who prefer to equip themselves with a tool that will help make them competitive in a world that doesn't give a good goddam about black folks who prefer to speak the tongue of the hungry and needy. And I question whether Magic Johnson got to where he is by hard work and determination. Things really just fell into place for him because he was a natural-born, gifted athlete in a sport that pays its players exorbitant amounts of money for being able to excel at a game. And once you accumulate money, you don't have to exert yourself to increase your bankroll; investors will seek you out "do the math". |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4352
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 06:10 pm: |
|
And as far as black people "acting white", it doesn't seem to occur to the "vaunted" chrishayden how white his attitude is when it comes to judging the black stripper whose behavior wasn't exemplary. It always so convenient to fall back on the "tryin to act white" excuse when black folks attempt to disarm white people by learning to use their weapons. And if chrishayden doesn't think language is a weapon, then he's more naive than I thought. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2354
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 06:19 pm: |
|
Please. Anybody who knows anything about B-ball knows that that boy had to work hard, probably not as hard as you, me, or Larry Bird. But, trust me, he had to work hard. Evan naturals have to work hard; harder if they wanna be the best. Maybe if we were to "embrace" ourselves, just maybe we'd least feel we could be the best. I'm sure that's a start. And they all started somewhere.
I know you're not talking to me but let me sneak in here for a second:
"Are you trying to suggest that people will believe that you are competent enough to repair their car..."
If you're the BEST mechanic you ain't gotta say shit to me, especially if you're giving out discounts cuz MONEY TALKS.
Okay. I'm out.
|
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 06:34 pm: |
|
I've only read the first post so far, so that's what I'm answering.
I think anyone raised speaking English ONLY should speak proper English. It doesn't say too much of ourselves and our opinion of ourselves if we speak only one language, have been speaking only one language since birth, and have not learned any other languages and can't even get that ONE right.
I would expect people not speaking English as a first language to have some trouble with it, but what does it say if you can't speak your NATIVE language correctly? |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 189
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 07:16 pm: |
|
Why does speaking proper English equate to 'talking white'?
IMO talking white is the 'tone' of your voice, and not how you articulate yourself. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1009
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 07:22 pm: |
|
And screw needing to speak proper English to work in white business.
You can't get hired at BLACK businesses, either, if don't speak proper English. Black businesspeople's standards are just as high as everyone else's. So don't even think of walking into a BLACK business with "yo bro man, I been needing a job and I sho hope you can hook a brother up." They're not going to hire you, either. |
Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 431
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 08:59 pm: |
|
I would like to know when does speaking white mean speaking proper English? For instance, using the word like after every other word is not proper English. Grind why should Black ppl have to adapt"assimilate"?
White ppl use "their" language as a symbol of power. And however uses it "properly" they will grant priviledges to. That in lamen terms means if you speak like us we will reward you. Secondly, Grind Black ppl do themselves a great disservice by just being black. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 431
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 09:42 pm: |
|
Black ppl do themselves a great disservice by just being black.
Huh??? When did we ever have control over the fact that we are Black???
We do have control over our vocabulary and speech though. So it's a DISSERVICE to talk and behave as if we are illiterate, uneducated, unenlightened, or that we can't engage in an intelligent conversation.
Remember back in the olden days when it was a crime for Black ppl to learn to read and write?
But now it's 'cool' to act stupid. How soon we forget. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 317
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 11:37 pm: |
|
Tonya, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Chris.There is no way that it would ever even cross my mind to talk to a lady like that.If your car is need of a little help and you are in the Houston area, bring it around, even if it isn't what I normally work on.The labor rate is 140 bucks an hour for mechanical, paint or body work. Diagnostics are a flat 100 bucks an hour and electrical is 110.Plus parts and materials for whatever the car needs.What those rates get you are a 12 month warranty on any repair,3 years on paint and body.All work will be done completely and correctly the first time, every time and the serviced area will look exactly like it did on the showroom floor and will function at least as well, probably better.All vehicles are completely spotless when you take delivery and if anyone treats you with anything other the utmost courtesy,respect and friendliness, I will at least fire the offending party and probably whip his @ss at some point during the firing procedure. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1119
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 07:02 am: |
|
Tonya:
"Or Maybe you're just a mornon(!),sis."
Moonsigns:
Highly unlikely!
Tonya:
"What the hell are you talking about?"
Moonsigns:
I have my own idea of what type of individual you would possibly consider a "lyrically gifted thug". However, in order to clarify your perspective for me, why don't provide names of (well-known) individuals who, in your opinion, are "lyrically gifted thugs".
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1120
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 07:20 am: |
|
Brownbeauty:
"IMO talking white is the 'tone' of your voice, and not how you articulate yourself."
Moonsigns:
I disagree. I think the whole concept of "talking white" or "talking black, is ridicudlous. And the 'tone' of someones voice can be soft, loud, high, low, or anything in between, and I don't think that is an accurate reflection of one's color. And I do believe an individual is either articulate or not. And whether some people want to accept it or not, some speech patterns are simply not conducive to productivity--especially in work/business related situations.
|
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 190
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 08:55 am: |
|
Moonsigns,
I think the tone of one's voice CAN be sometimes used as an accurate reflection of a person's ethnicity. Not always--but most of the time.
IMO a white mans tone of voice sounds entirely different than a Black mans-naturally. The only time a Black man's tone of voice starts to take on that Tom Cruise pitch is when he's been placed in a white environment and vice versa for the white man.
There is a difference. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 192
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 09:01 am: |
|
Did anyone watch the Real World: Las Vegas? One of the black castmembers name was Alton, and he had a 'surfer dude' accent--Black people don't sound or speak like that.
Not to mention his voice grates. I hated him specifically because he talked like that. Ain't nothing worse than a chocolate man with a surfer dude white accent. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2358
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
|
Moonsigns, I wasn't using the word "thug" literally, though some rappers were former thugs in the literal sense, before they became stars. Jay-Z and Biggie Smalls are/were two. They both are/were lyrically gifted as well.
Lyrically.. Gifted.. Thugs. Got it?
Rustang, bless you love. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 432
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
|
Black men have a much richer deeper voice than white men. And they are sooooo sexy!!! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2359
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
|
"We do have control over our vocabulary and speech though. So it's a DISSERVICE to talk and behave as if we are illiterate, uneducated, unenlightened, or that we can't engage in an intelligent conversation."
Some people speak perfect English and they still come across that way. Some people are educated fools. I swear some are retards.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1121
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
|
Tonya:
"....Jay-Z and Biggie Smalls are/were two."
Moonsigns:
Thanks for clarifying. Those two men are definitely individuals that I thought you would consider "lyrically gifted thugs".
Lyrical excerpt from Jay-Z's 'BIG PIMPIN':
"YOU KNOW I - THUG EM, FUCK EM, LOVE EM, LEAVE EM
CAUSE I DON'T FUCKIN NEED EM
TAKE EM OUT THE HOOD, KEEP EM LOOKIN GOOD
BUT I DON'T FUCKIN' FEED EM
FIRST TIME THEY FUSS I'M BREEZIN'
TALKIN' BOUT, "WHAT'S THE REASON?"
I'M A PIMP IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD, BITCH."
Lyrical excerpt from Notorious B.I.G.'s 'FUCK YOU TONIGHT':
"SOME SAY THE X MAKE THE SEX
SPEC-TACULAR, MAKE ME LICK YOU FROM YO NECK
TO YOU BACK, THEN YA, SHIVERIN, TONGUE DELIVERIN'
CHILLS UP THAT SPINE, THAT ASS IS MINE
SKIP THE WINE AND THE CANDLELIGHT, NO CRISTAL TONIGHT
IF IT'S ALRIGHT WITH YOU, WE FUCKIN' (THAT'S COOL)
DEJA VU, THE BLUNTS SPARKED, FINGER FUCKIN' IN THE PARK
PISSY OFF BACARDI DARK
REMEMBER WHEN I USED TO PLAY BETWEEN YO LEGS
YOU BEGGED FOR ME TO STOP BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHERE IT WOULD HEAD
STRAIGHT TO YOU MOTHER'S BED
AT THE MARIOTT, WE BE LUCKY IF WE FIND THE SPOT
NEXT TO YO SISTER, DAMN I REALLY MISSED THE WAY SHE USED TO RUB MY BACK, WHEN I HIT THAT
WAY SHE USED TO GIGGLE WHEN YO ASS WOULD WIGGLE
NOW I KNOW YOU USED TO SWEETS AT THE PARKER MERIDIAN
TRIP TO THE CARRIBEAN, BUT TONIGHT, NO ENDS."
Tonya, I can't read such trash and consider their work synonymous with individuals who are truly "lyrically gifted". And the way these two men choose/chose to communicate, is, to me, a form of ghetto "talk". But again, it has nothing to do with them being black. Ghetto "talk", like any other form of communciation, is colorless and boundless. And my belief that this form of communication is not reflective of those that are "lyrically gifted", does not make me a racist--it actually poses the question of why you, a supposedly pro-black woman who (rightly) *says* she wants healthy images of black people, give the exploitative "entertainment" of two "rappers" the respect it doesn't deserve.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1122
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
|
You're right, Brownbeauty, "sometimes" one can tell the ethnicity of another by hearing how they "talk". But again, I maintain my position that it has nothing to do with "tone", but rather how one enunciates certain words or the particular speech pattern they use.
Brownbeauty:
"One of the black castmembers name was Alton, and he had a 'surfer dude' accent--Black people don't sound or speak like that."
Moonsigns:
That's very stereotypical--and quite a double standard-- and I'm surprised that comment is coming from you, Brownbeauty. And, obviously, though you may not like it, some black people do "sound" and "speak" like that. And that doesn't make them any less black.
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2360
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 01:12 pm: |
|
Moonsigns,
I never said I agreed with them. When did I say I agree with their lyrics or that any of it is true? They're lyrically gifted. Not lyrically accurate. How many people are, that's silly. Their music is just like the lyrics of many that I don't see eye to eye with. I don't approve of Mike's lyrics because, to me, it does make a difference if you're black or white. But can I deny that Mike is lyrically gifted - musically gifted?? Not if I want to come off sane I won't. These guys do things that only exceptional people can do. They excel in an art which requires an intellect that most do not possess. They're geniuses in more ways than one, both creatively and intellectually--and whether I respect or agree with them or their lyrics or not, THAT'S STILL TRUE. By the way, Jazz, Blues, Rock -n- Roll, Pop and R&B are also "Ghetto Talk." You must don't like music much, huh? LOL. "Ghetto Talk" is what started it ALLLLL, babe. Get a clue.
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2361
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 01:34 pm: |
|
...And you still haven't proved that you're not a moron, quite the contrary. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 434
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 02:06 pm: |
|
I swear some are retards.
Yes, I've concluded that myself. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2362
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 03:29 pm: |
|
Reneta:
I think anyone raised speaking English ONLY should speak proper English. It doesn't say too much of ourselves and our opinion of ourselves if we speak only one language, have been speaking only one language since birth, and have not learned any other languages and can't even get that ONE right.
I would expect people not speaking English as a first language to have some trouble with it, but what does it say if you can't speak your NATIVE language correctly?
Tonya:
That's not true.
"Proper" English is NOT the native language for most of us, "Black English" is.
You know, I have to give the Hispanics and other foreigners their props for standing their ground. For example, when I call customer service for cable or internet assistance, you think they play around? Nope! If I keep asking them to repeat themselves (when I truly don't understand what they are saying) they will put me on hold for fifteen minutes. They dont like that. They get pissed off at you. They got me calling them sir and ma'am and I'm not a sir and ma'am person. But I'm not a hold for fifteen minutes type person either so "yes sir!" it is. And I don't ask them to repeat AN-NEE-THING. Uh-uh. I just get it wrong until they have to walk me through it.
The Hispanics are the same way. It's gonna get done their way. They are learning English in school the way blacks should have been learning it: as a second language. But we were too ASHAMED to acknowledge our first language years ago when a similar program was proposed, remember? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2363
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 03:51 pm: |
|
And, yeah, it usually turns out to be a long walk, which is sometimes rough.
I prefer that, though, over being on hold for fifteen minutes.
I can't stand the silence. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
|
I don't agree with you, Tonya. But I was an English major and have spoken perfect English since before I started kindegarten, so maybe I'm somewhat biased in that area. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1012
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:34 pm: |
|
My brother and one male cousin are probably the only ones in my family who don't use good grammar, and I don't know why. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 157
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 05:03 am: |
|
IMO, I agree with Tonya where she mentions that the english language should be taught as a second language in schools for ethnic communities in the U.S. AA's who grow up speaking Ebonics at home should learn standard english at school as a second language just like spanish, korean or chinese students. Learning a second language is a good thing or learning a third or fourth language is even better. In Kenya, for most people english is a third language learnt at school. In regards to foul language which is mostly sexist and degrading used by rappers has nothing intellectual about it. Anyone who writes abusive and foul words intended to degrade women should never think the he is a gifted writer. He is a sick person and needs serious help. If his community thinks that he's a gifted writer and an intellectual, than his community is sicker than he is and needs a more help than he does. Cracker english speaking folks too can learn english as a second language. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2365
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 09:15 am: |
|
Had you ever watched a Brother "free-style" before, you'd understand what I mean by intelligence.
Gotta give it to them... eventhough I completely despise what they say. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 11:03 am: |
|
Tonya:
"They're lyrically gifted."
Moonsigns:
I disagree. Lyrics make up the content of a composition. Their ability to "rhyme"/"freestyle" is a talent that is able to entertain--not a "lyrical gift". Two totally different things.
Tonya:
"They excel in an art that requires an intellect that most do not possess. They're geniuses in more ways than one, both creatively and intellectually--and whether I respect or agree with them or their lyrics or not, THAT'S STILL TRUE."
Moonsigns:
Yeah. It's "true" to you, not to me--as I find nothing creative, intellectual, or genius-like about chalkin' some degrading "rap" and sitting in a studio trying to lay down a track for it. It's a difference of an opinion.
Tonya:
"You must don't like music much, huh? LOL. "Ghetto Talk" is what started it ALLLLL, babe. Get a clue."
Moonsigns:
I like music, Tonya, but only music created by true artists who possess true lyrical and musical gifts--not some sell-outs who contribute to the decay of society regardless of their genre. And though I know you'd love to believe that all forms of music started with "Ghetto Talk", you're mistaken. The true artists of the past rarely, if ever, communicated like the sell-out entertainers of today.
Nevertheless, this exchange has allowed me to further comprehend your logic--which in turn--continues to provide me the answers as to why you write the stupid shyt you do. Thanks. *wink*
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2368
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 02:37 pm: |
|
Moonsigns:
Their ability to "rhyme"/"freestyle" is a talent that is able to entertain--not a "lyrical gift". Two totally different things.
Tonya:
Just for the record, I SAID that their ability to freestyle reveals much about their intelligence. I DID NOT say that it's the sum total of their lyrical gift-ness. Either read correctly, or stop putting words in my mouth.
Moonsigns:
And though I know you'd love to believe that all forms of music started with "Ghetto Talk", you're mistaken. The true artists of the past rarely, if ever, communicated like the sell-out entertainers of today.
Tonya:
What was Aretha Franklin Sangin' about?
What on earth was Little Richard hoot'n & holl'n about?
Mahalia Jackson, what was she preachin'??
Marvin Gaye, Bob Marley, Patti Labelle, James Brown... are you saying they're not true artists? Aye??? Or that none of it was Ghetto Talk?? ...Nah-uh...
you're not saying that either.
(Thanks Yukio!!!!)
And as for the rest--- (*yawn*) --- it's you're OPINION vs. mine...
and you still haven't proven you're not a moron.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1127
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 04:38 pm: |
|
Tonya:
"Just for the record, I SAID that their ability to freestyle reveals much about their intelligence. I DID NOT say that it's the sum total of their lyrical gift-ness. Either read correctly, or stop putting words in my mouth.
Moonsigns:
Really? Let's re-read what you wrote just yesterday, Thursday, April 27, 2006 at !0:22 a.m., Tonya.
Tonya:
"Jay-Z and Biggie Smalls are/were two. They both/are lyrically gifted as well."
Moonsigns:
Yes. It's perfectly clear--I didn't put any words in your mouth. The issue is you can't even remember what you've written--and that isn't my fault or anyone elses--LMAO!!!!!!!!
Tonya:
"What was Aretha Franklin Sangin' about?"......."What on earth was Little Richard hoot'n & holl'n about?"......Mahalaia Jackson, what was she preachin'?......."Marvin Gaye, Bob Marley, Patti Labelle, James Brown.."
Moonsigns:
Tonya, you've proved my point without even realizing it.
Tonya:
"And as for the rest--- (*yawn*) ---it's you're OPINION vs. mine.
Moonsigns:
Yep. Exactly what I stated in my previous post--and you're just "getting it" now. Figures.
Tonya:
"and you still haven't proven you're not a moron."
Moonsigns:
Tonya, I'm glad you think I'm a moron, because it's complete confirmation that I'm really not. *wink*
I know, you just had a brain fart. Think about it while you walk on your treadmill tonight--or better yet, when you're out for a smoke. It'll come together....I promise.....maybe.
LMAO!
|
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 440
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 05:09 pm: |
|
Moonsigns - There's an old Chinese proverb, and although I'm guilty of doing it myself -
Never argue with an idiot. He will only pull you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
And another one:
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
I'm not sure which one is correct - but either way - never argue with the idiot. Especially if she is a moron. LOL! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2375
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 06:57 pm: |
|
Oh, lord.
Moonsigns, pay.. Close.. Attention:
You accused me of equating the ability to free-style, a "talent" as you yourself put it, with being lyrically gifted. Now, you were wrong on the spot. Because the terns "talented" and "gifted" are indeed synonymous and are often used interchangeably. But I responded to you this way:
Just for the record, I SAID that their ability to freestyle reveals much about their intelligence. I DID NOT say that it {free styling} is the sum total of their lyrical gift-ness. Either read correctly, or stop putting words in my mouth.
. . . . . . . . . .
Should I have written it differently? I'm not a writer so you tell me.
And also, I'm not sure if it was possible for me to have written anything at "!o:22 am," but if you're talking about this post:
Moonsigns, I wasn't using the word "thug" literally, though some rappers were former thugs in the literal sense, before they became stars. Jay-Z and Biggie Smalls are/were two. They both are/were lyrically gifted as well.
Lyrically.. Gifted.. Thugs. Got it?
. . . . . . . . . .
Where did I use the word free-style??? I didn't, did I?
You're still a moron, Moonie.
Mzuray!!!
Let me help you with that, Babe.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cuz people from a distance can't tell who is who
--Jay-Z "We Runin' this Rap Shit"--The Blue Print.
________________________________________________
And since you're so cute, Zuri... you've earned a bonus cut, look ahead:
All you other BITCHES throwing shots at Jigga...
You only get half a bar..
FUCK YOU NIGGA!
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1128
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 07:49 pm: |
|
Mzuri,
Never heard those proverbs before. But in regards to that, I'm not "arguing" with anyone, especially Tonya.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 07:58 pm: |
|
Tonya:
"You're still a moron, Moonie."
Moonsigns:
I'm glad you think so!
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2380
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 09:55 pm: |
|
You know what?
Moonsigns:
I disagree. Lyrics make up the content of a composition. Their ability to "rhyme"/"freestyle" is a talent that is able to entertain--not a "lyrical gift". Two totally different things.
Tonya:
I think I figured out the problem. You don't know what free-styling is. Free-styling does not simply rhyme, you see. It's not spitting out verses that you stayed up all night writing. It's spitting them out on the spot; no pad, no paper, just coming up with it as you go. Now I don't know about these guys today, but back when I was coming up, not only were brothers free-styling, they were free-styling seriously "dope" rhymes----and on the spot!!!
Listen to a record by any one of the best rappers today--"Fiddy" Cents, Jay-Z or whoever else is out there--and imagine someone coming up with those lyrics on the spot. That's what brothers did back then.
Will Smith (waaaay before he was "Big Willy") used to perform in the park, a place we call "the plateau" in Philly. He also used to perform at Penns Landing right after he cut is very first album. But we didn't give a shit about no Willy. We wanted to hear the brothers Free-style on the corner. Because these brothers used to come up with rhymes that made Will Smiths REHEARSED rhymes sound like nothing. I can't tell you if Will can free-style, I never heard him do it, but I only went to one of the free armature performances he used to give, because free-styling used to be the only thing that was up. It's improvising - sort of like what Jazz players do, I think. I don't know a lot about Jazz so I'm not sure, I'm only guessing. But free-styling is not the same as performing a prepared rhyme or singing a song from an album. And that's why I equate it with intelligence; infact I said that these guys are geniuses both creatively (that is musically in general) and intellectually - I.e., their ability to free-style. See?
At any rate I hope that explains it. To be honest with you, I don't know why you are confused - that statement you made truly contradicts itself which confuses the hell out of me - but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2381
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 09:58 pm: |
|
Oh and, you're still a moron. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2384
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 10:57 pm: |
|
Moonsigns:
I disagree. Lyrics make up the content of a composition.
Tonya:
Yes, you can say that.
But "lyrics" is a word that simply relates to music and poetry.
It can even be used in place of the word "music."
As well, "lyrical" and "lyrically" are an adverb and an adjective that describes poetry and music.
So *Lyrically Gifted* sounds accurate to me.
You're digging too deep, Monnie.
|
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 344
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:31 am: |
|
Speak ghetto, live ghetto. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2386
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
|
Tell that to them foreigners who will be working your job next month, Nels. Only don't tell it to them in "The King's" English. They won't understand you.
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1221
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 09:06 pm: |
|
Interesting conversation . . . it is indeed very important. As we know, most people do not speak stand American English. Few of us here, by the way, do. I know I don't. I am a work in progress. It is something that I work at. I want to publish fiction and nonfiction. It is therefore, a requirement of my chosen vocation.
That said, competence in standard english and occupation is a must. The majority of us will neither become rappers nor become professional athletes. The fact is, perfecting standard english has instrumental use; it is no guarantee that one will succeed, but it is an attempt to improve one's life chances within enemy territory.
Finally to answer the question. No! If you do not speak proper English you are neither black nor stupid. You either don't know it or choose not to use it.
Tonya:
What are you thanking me for?
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2412
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
|
Yukio, remember when I said that old School literary authors weren't telling the "truth?"
...and you were like:
Wutchu talk'n 'bout, girl??
So and so wasn't telling the truth?!?!
Such and such wasn't telling the truth?!?!
I know you're not saying GAYL JONES wasn't telling the truth!?!?!?!?!?
*LOL*
You broke it down, brother; and you inspired me to never disrespect/question the significance of those from the old school. You were also funny as hell.
And so, that's what I was thanking you for. I didn't mean to imply that you agreed with my position on this thread cuz, trust me, I know you do not.
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2414
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 01:57 pm: |
|
Also Yukio,
"The majority of us will neither become rappers nor become professional athletes."----Yukio
There are MANY doctors and lawyers who do not speak perfect English.
My point is, go for what's going to get you paid--you're craft, WHATEVER THAT IS. For many Scholars and academics, Perfect English isn't what got them paid. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1222
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 04:06 pm: |
|
Tonya: I don't necessarily disagree with you. Also, if you recall, I said "As we know, most people do not speak stand American English. Few of us here, by the way, do."
I think a differences needs to be made between people who just don't know how to speak standard english and those who know but choose not to use it all the time.
This, I think, is in agreement with your statement: There are MANY doctors and lawyers who do not speak perfect English.
Those who speak "perfect english" are a very small proportion of the world's population. When I think of those who use "perfect english," I think of the elite, and those cultured in, from birth, socalled high culture.
These doctors and lawyers, whom you speak of, however, are more likely than not to strive to speak "perfect english."
For scholars and academics (often the same), perfect english is always the goal; the majority academics, regardless of field, must publish articles, books, etc, for they must clearly convey their research results.
I am not at all trying to claim that the facility of stand english alone is sufficient to improve a person's life chances. Instead, that strong usage of standard english and your craft, whatever that be, are both requisites for success.
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2425
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 12:11 am: |
|
Gotchu Yukio. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4566
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 12:24 am: |
|
The purpose of language is to allow living beings a means of communicating. No language or dialect is inherently better/worse than another. The issue is whether one has a means of communicating in ways that those whose opinions or viewpoint are important and vital to your interests will comprehend.
Ebonics is fine, so long as one can achieve all of his or her goals wielding it.
The problem with Ebonics is not the dialect in/of itself. Rather, it's all the politicing and posturing that surrounds it. Because it's one thing to enjoy talking "Black". It's quite another to ineffectually exert such in times and situations where one has little-2-no sway. |
Email This Page