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Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 408
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 01:03 am: | 
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I did not get a chance to see the first two parts of this series which broadcast tonight on HBO. I was too busy trying to get a newsletter out this evening.
(As an aside, I have to admit this month's newsletter has a lot of good information in it. I have so much content in the queue for publication, but not time to get it out. I still have photos and videos from BEA, photos from The National Book Club Conference and the Harlem Book Fair that have not been published, but I digress...)
When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Parts
Spike Lee Documentary Revisits New Orleans in the Wake of Katrina - Film Review by Kam Williams
http://aalbc.com/reviews/when_the_levees_broke.htm
Kam's review was hihly critical of Spikes film. After viewing the film, do you agree with Kam's Assessment?
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4964
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
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This documentary certainly did hesitate to editoralize |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2608
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 01:41 pm: |
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Here's one from The Weekly Standard no less--
Spike's Storm
His latest documentary views the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina through the prism of race.
by Sonny Bunch
08/21/2006 12:00:00 AM
"When the Levees Broke"
by Spike Lee
Airing on HBO Monday, August 21, and Tuesday, August 22.
SPIKE LEE'S NEW DOCUMENTARY about Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath, When the Levees Broke, is an interesting piece of work. The film is alternately moving, depressing, and annoying. It is also long. Exceptionally long. Clocking in at just over four hours, and broken into four one hour acts (the first two air tonight, the last two tomorrow night), it is an emotionally overwhelming presentation of an American city beset by a tragedy from which it may never recover.
As in Lee's first documentary, 4 Little Girls, the director eschews the use of a narrator; allowing his subjects' stories to tie the piece together instead. Another holdover from 4 Little Girls is the composer, Terence Blanchard, whose music is both touching and haunting.
The first act focuses on the hurricane itself, and the people who stayed in the city through the storm. From the get-go, one is struck by the blasé attitude that the citizens took towards the massive hurricane; despite the fact that President Bush, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, and Mayor Ray Nagin all called for an evacuation of New Orleans, many residents decided to stay. Their attitude was summed up by Fred Johnson, identified in the film as a "cultural activist," who said "[E]verybody who's afraid should leave, but I ain't for that leavin'." Those who couldn't afford to leave but still felt unsafe went to the Superdome to ride out the storm.
One of the theories raised by Lee's subjects is that the levees were blown on purpose in order to flood the city's infamous 9th Ward. Lee neither embraces nor rejects this argument, but he does give some background into the reason why so many black residents claimed they heard explosions the night of the storm. "During Hurricane Betsy [in 1965] there were rumors, and it became almost an article of faith with people in the community, that the 9th Ward flooded because of an intentional breach of the levee," recalls Marc Morial, former mayor of New Orleans. "It was never investigated; it was neither proven nor disproven." The noise the residents heard was most likely a barge crashing into the walls holding back the water, but the conspiracy theory, a product of the racial paranoia that infects many of Lee's interviewees, is largely uncontested and is the beginning of an annoying undercurrent throughout the documentary.
The first act also pays homage to one of the few institutions to rise to the challenge of those dark days: the United States Coast Guard. "There's one agency we should single out for a job well done," according to Morial. The USCG took it upon themselves to rescue as many people as possible, by flying as many sorties as they could and ignoring regulations on flight time by running 16 hour shifts. (As with any other organization, Coast Guard pilots are only supposed to fly a certain number of hours in order to avoid fatigue and causing more casualties.)
While the first act does its best to portray the human tragedy, the second act focuses on the political tragedy. No major political figure emerges from these interviews unscathed. President Bush takes his share of abuse (his now infamous attaboy-- "You're doin' a heck of a job Brownie"--is replayed by Lee three times in rapid succession for full effect), but Blanco and Nagin aren't exempted by their political affiliation or race. The two receive particular criticism for letting political backbiting (Nagin, a Democrat, supported Blanco's Republican challenger, Rep. Bobby Jindal, in the gubernatorial contest) and internecine power struggles get in the way of helping the people of New Orleans.
While FEMA is portrayed as incompetent, and the Army Corps of Engineers as criminally negligent, Lee misses a golden opportunity to examine another of the key factors into the destruction of the levees: terrible mismanagement by the organization designed to keep the levees functioning, the Orleans Levee Board. In a piece that came out two weeks after Katrina's landfall, MSNBC's Lisa Myers reported that the Levee Board, among other wasteful purchases, blew $2.4 million on a fountain. Former Republican board member Billy Nungesser stated that they "misspent the money. . . . any dollar they wasted was a dollar that could have went in the levees." Nungesser was fired for trying to cut down on this wasteful spending; in his opinion, the board was "a cesspool of politics, that's all it was. . . . [Its purpose was to] provide jobs for people." At the time Myer's article was written, only two of the 11 construction projects underway were related to flood control.
Another hero, at least according to Nagin, was Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, "the black John Wayne dude." When Honore showed up "that's when things changed," says Nagin. Lee isn't so generous. One of his subjects recalls the military evacuation as a return to the indignities of slavery; mothers were separated from children, the strong and the weak were put into different groups, people were piled together. It's one of a number of insipidly racist comments that hurts Act II. Another comes from Harry Belafonte, who claims that New Orleans' residents were "racially of no importance" to Bush. And Lee also portrays whites trying to protect their property from looters as idiotic rednecks: When one man tells Lee that he returned to the city only because he had a 9 millimeter handgun and two shotguns as protection, the director incredulously asks if this arsenal wouldn't be more useful in the hunt for Bin Laden.
Not all of the celebrity interviews were as silly as Harry Belafonte's (or as self serving as Sean Penn's--while being interviewed by Lee, Penn comes off looking like Superman instead of the bumbling, oafish celebrity that brought his own personal photographer to New Orleans for publicity and managed to sink the boat he was trying to rescue people in). Wendell Pierce, who plays a detective on HBO's The Wire, was born and raised in New Orleans. His 80-year-old father lost the house purchased upon his return from service in the Second World War. The insurance company that he paid premiums to for decades paid him only $1,000 for his loss. "The insurance companies . . . There's a special, special circle in hell for them," the actor says. It's hard not to agree with him as Lee exposes the chicanery the insurance companies have engaged in to avoid paying out damages.
The documentary closes with a warning that all of this could very easily happen again. The Army Corps of Engineers has yet to bring the levees back to their pre-Katrina strength, and Lee invokes the specter of global warming as an additional cause for urgency. The fact that this hurricane season has been incredibly mild--through almost three months there have been only three named storms, and none of those has reached hurricane strength--doesn't help Lee make his case.
Also in Tuesday's portion of the documentary, Lee glances at the rising levels of black on black violence in New Orleans and finds only one solution to the problem: keep the kids in school. And that's all well and good, but his solution (pouring more money into the broken school system) won't fix anything. He ignores the one thing that might really keep kids in school: strong families. In New Orleans, 60 percent of children are born out of wedlock (and 96 percent of teen births are out of wedlock). Single parent households tend to be poor households. They also tend to be uneducated households, as children of single mothers drop out at higher rates than those of two-parent households. Poverty and ignorance are two surefire causes of violent crime, and could be greatly alleviated by a concerted effort to get families to stick together.
All in all, the documentary works on a couple of levels: It is a great memorial to all those who lost their lives in the third deadliest hurricane of all time. Lee also does a good, if incomplete, job in trying to assess blame. As with most of Lee's work, however, the racial commentary is annoying, unenlightening, and unrelenting, and only detracts from the truly painful images Lee brings to the screen.
Sonny Bunch is an assistant editor of THE WEEKLY STANDARD.
© Copyright 2006, News Corporation, Weekly Standard, All Rights Reserved.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6193
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 01:47 pm: |
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Troy,
I guess I'd like to reserve my full commentary for AFTER I've seen Acts III & IV of "When the Levees Broke" (which air tonite on HBO).
But my initial thoughts are I disagree with MOST of Kam's critique of the film.
I have some questions about Spike's work (which I hope will be resolved tonite). But what I've seen thus far seem to be a truly GREAT work of American filmaking. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2609
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 02:00 pm: |
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The conservative whiteboy did a better (and fairer) review of Lee's movie than the negro.
Whassup wit dat? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4966
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 02:06 pm: |
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I mean to say that the documentary DID'NT hesitate to editoralize. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6194
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 02:34 pm: |
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Cynique,
I don't know if I'd characterize it as editorializing. I do think there appeared to be some biases.
I'd like to know the extent to which Spike attempted to solicit the opinions and positions of the Bush Administration, the Army Corp of Engineers (who've been most blamed for the alleged faulty levees), etc. Because almost NONE other perspective was presented during Acts I and II.
And hope Acts III & IV includes a more balanced perspective. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6195
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 02:39 pm: |
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I was quite pleasantly SURPRISED by how critical CNN's lovely Soledad O'Brien was of the federal response to Katrina. You SELDOM see foks who have her particular media status be so forthright with their opinions of the failures of the government.
You could tell she was utter pissedthehellOFF about what happened. |
Nom_de_plume
Newbie Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 07:43 pm: |
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That review was decent enough but how can it be "annoying" to point out the fact that those people were left to literally ROT for five days (and that's if you were ALIVE) and that they were primarily poor people of color? Don't get antsy when faced with the truth!
I look forward to tonight's conclusion. |
Snakegirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 104
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 08:11 pm: |
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Kam Williams is really a white man. He even looks like one.
I feel sorry for Black Americans, because this is why the LEVEE situation took place at the root.
You can't even distinguish Kam Williams from a black man.
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Kam
First Time Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 08:26 pm: |
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Chris, I don't think I got it wrong. How can you say I got it wrong if you haven't watched all four hours? Frankly, I found the past two days of Katrina coverage on C-SPAN to be far more moving and informational.
The Negro |
Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
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Snakegirl,Why do you say I'm really a white man? Because I criticize a Spike Lee movie? That's pretty retarded. I might be Chinese. I do not believe that he should have given the mayor and the ex-police chief passes simply because of the color of the skin. If you read the book, The Great Deluge, you'd see that they deserve a big share of the blame for what happened. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6200
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 08:49 pm: |
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Kam,
How and where were N.O.'s major and ex-police chief given a pass?
Perhaps Mayor Nagin could have done some things better. And that was expressed by some of the citizenry on the documentary. But I'm hardpressed to find any city executive in modern American history who was faced with the type, size and scale of calamity that Nagin faced.
And please SPARE me the Guliani 911 comparison. Because as terrible as 911 was, it was much SMALLER in scale/complexity to the havoc Katrina wrought upon New Orleans.
Frankly, Nagin didn't have the friggin TIME to attend the furnerals of fallen first responders.
And the ex-chief HIMSELF admitted he HE probably caused the situation to worsen. And because of his errors, he graciously resigned (which was more CLASS than ANY of the Bush Administration demonstrated for their utter 911 failure). |
Snakegirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 105
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |
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Kam---don't worry WHITE NEGRO CHILD, Kola's got some pussy for ya.
SSSsssssssssss!
Now fuck off, before I bite your dick off and eat it.
Spike created a masterpiece.
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Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:21 pm: |
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ABM, I never compared Giuliani to Nagin. Nagin is a Republican in Democratic clothing. Check out my piece on him here:
http://www.afrotoronto.com/Articles/May06/RayNagin.html
PS- Lloyd williams is one of my alias.
As for Snakegirl, I am at a loss for words. |
Blkmalereading
Veteran Poster
Username: Blkmalereading
Post Number: 68
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
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I think I agree with ABM on this one. I'm viewing the show as I type this, so I'll reserve my final opinion until I have seen them all. BUT from what I have viewed so far - I also didn't agree or get the same concept from the film as Kam did.
Since we are here and have Kam's attention - exactly who are you? How did you come to post reviews for AALBC? What ever happened to Thumper. Thumper and his funny, interesting, witty and no holes barred, honest reviews and postings on this list is what MADE this board.
I didn't always agree with every review but you could tell that he was/is a passionate reader, has a STRONG opinion and not afraid to stand up for them, was well read, read a variety of books in all sort of topics and what I really respected about him, he could back up his stuff with information and when that failed - he'll just plainly state - Hell that's the way I feel. The kind of person you want to sit down and talk to about books (at least that how I felt).
No disrespect - but how and why did that change about the list? I always wanted to ask that question. |
Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 09:38 am: |
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Black male reading, my bio is around. In 25 words or less, I'm a high school dropout-turned-attorney-turned book and film critic who writes for over 100 periodicals around the country. Thumper has a different style. It's all good. As a film critic, I watch at least a half-dozen movies per week. This makes more far better equipped to assess them than the Average Joe. I have always found that people react the most vociferously to my reviews of documentaries, like this flick or Michael Moore's one. they think that if I pan it, I disagree with the director's politics, or if I like it, that I agree with the picture's political statement. Here, I criticized Spike's film for many reasons, partially because I felt he was not tough enough on Nagin. Read The Great Deluge. So tell me a little about yourself, bro? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2610
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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Kam:
Didn't say you got it wrong. Read what I wrote again.
I said the conservative whiteboy from the Weekly Standard did a better and fairer review than you did.
Whazzup wit dat? Inferior ghetto schooling? Contempt for your black audience? Rushed to make a deadline? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6206
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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Spike Lee,
BRAVO, my Dear Brother!
BRAVO!!!...BRAVO!!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6213
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
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Kam,
I didn’t mean to infer that you’d compared Nagin and Giuliani. I juxtapose them because I’ve OFTEN heard and read that Giuliani’s handling of 911 was vastly superior to that of Nagin’s management of the Katrina crisis and sought to preemptively thwart any such FALLACIOUS comparison.
I have neither the capacity nor inclination to defend Mayor Nagin. Because I am not a New Orleans citizen, resident or voter.
And I’m no card carrying Democrat (or Republican). So I’m not at all moved by Nagin’s alleged duplicitous political party flip-flopping.
Perhaps unlike you, I assume that if Black New Orleans citizens thought they had someone better than Nagin to vote for, Nagin would NOT have been elected, no matter his alleged and actual party loyalties.
My problem with your citing Spike's alleged failure to criticize Nagin is that you fail to even mention WHICH of Nagin’s failures Lee’s alleged to have eschewed. It seems you have falling lockstep into the very popular refrain of Nagin-bashing without even the courtesy of asserting WHY Nagin deserves to be bashed. (And I surmise such is fueled by your concerns about Nagin’s more Republican politics.)
You say Nagin’s failures are “well-documented”. Perhaps. But I think you owe it to your readers to cite at least ONE of them so that they can attempt to gauge the veracity of your criticism.
And, again, when was the last time a mayor of a city the size, scale and complexity of New Orleans had to manage and lead a full-scale evacuation...WITHOUT adequate State and Federal leadership and support?
The havoc Katrina reaped upon New Orleans was and remains unprecedented in the annals of American history.
Nagin may, indeed be, at best, a mediocre mayor and at worse be a lying, cheating, sniveling bastid. But given New Orleans’ position, resources and history, I don’t see ANY mayor doing a marketedly better job to manage the Katrina crisis than he did.
And I challenge you (or anyone else, for that matter) to argue otherwise. |
Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 02:05 pm: |
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Abm, All I can say, again, is read the book, The great Deluge. If you don't have the time, then read my review or simply apply a little common sense. Nagin was every bit as culpable as Brownie. Just take another look at the picture of the flooded buses. Mark my words, under Nagin, N.O. will only be gentrified, especially when he gets pats on the back from Spike Lee instead of being grilled mercilessly. |
Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 02:10 pm: |
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Chris, You sound as ridiculous as the people who routinely get upset when I critique demeaning black movies, expecting me to be a cheerleader for any movie containing black faces. The whole point of my reviewing ovies and books is to differentiate among the quality of the products. Sorry that I can only write a review, and can't comprehend it for you. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2617
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
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The right wing white boy smoked your ass like a Virginia ham--
Kam--
And everybody seen it. And you supposed to be laying down the BLACK thang and all.
Climb back on here when you can write a review proper. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4967
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 03:58 pm: |
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I had no problem with your review, Kam. You have writing skills and a provocative opinion. Who could ask for more?? And the fact that you didn't pass chrishayden's litmus test is a acutally a plus. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2620
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 04:07 pm: |
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Cynique:
I've been wondering how long it would take you to leap to the defense of this underachiever.
He ain't qualified. He tries to do an axe job on Spike because he's one of those crabs in a barrell negroes and proud of it, but he doesn't do it as good as a conservative white man.
And Kam Williams is supposed to be a black expert! Supposed to have it down! His review was substandard, unresearched and if I didn't kow better, the product of a functional illiterate.
I have read better reviews than his scrawled in feces on the walls of the local mental hospital.
But then again that makes him right up your alley then, don't it? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4969
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 04:22 pm: |
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Yep. Cuz the irrational overreactions that you frame your partisan opinions in don't hold water with me. Who are you? Just a nobody who develops diarrhea of the mouth anytime somebody dares to say what it deflates you to hear. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6217
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 04:55 pm: |
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Kam,
Perhaps I’ll read "The Great Deluge". Hopefully, it’ll give a fair & thorough accounting of what occurred.
I read your review a couple times and applied as much "common sense" to my reading of it as I can bring to bear.
Still. I do not fault Nagin (or Brown) very much for what happened. Perhaps he’s not the most competent person. But the size and scale of Katrina was such that perhaps only a 'Superman' could have saved the day.
And please forgive me. But I find fixating on drowning buses to be wholly LAUGHABLE.
We have a United States military that has invested literally TRILLIONS of dollars in the world's very BEST air, ground and water crafts. The Marines are reputed to be deployable to any place of EARTH within a SINGLE day's time.
Yet when we have the very worst natural disaster in American history, one that results in 1,000’s of foks starving and dying INSIDE the continental United States, we’re gonna blame the shyt on the local mayor failing to schedule and direct some friggin’ SCHOOL BUSES?
Playah. Don’t believe the HYPE!
No. I most fault the United States Army Corp of Engineers or USACE (and those to whom they report right up to the White House) more than I do anyone else for what happened. USACE was responsible to building and maintaining the levees such that they could tolerate the stresses Katrina had imposed upon them.
If I have a criticism of Spike's film it is that there should have been some attempt made to have the head of USACE state their position regarding the quality and adequacy of the levee system pre-Katrina. And if USACE refused to provide such, that should have been CLEARLY/BLATANTLY presented in Spike's film.
Because, really, once the levees BROKE, a hell was turned loose that NO lone mayor could adequately manage and navigate.
Lastly, I don’t recall getting the sense that Nagin was being congratulated for how he handled the Katrina crisis. If anything, Nagin appeared to me to be a fairly minor - if not inconsequential - figure in Spike’s film. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4971
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 05:09 pm: |
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Isn't it amazing what a provocative opinionated review can inspire? A civil response. The idea that a person should be dismissed from this board because he offended chrishayden is ridiculous. Of course I do have to admit that the concise brevity exhibited in Kam's review and subsequent posts worked in his favor as far as I was concerned. |
Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 07:20 pm: |
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As a person who is really just a writer, and not versed in blogspeak or etiquette, this is sort of fascinating, seeing the sort of repartee that goes on on a discussion board. Because I write over 40 articles per month, I simply don't have the time to partake in these sort of debates or to respond to my fan mail, since I don't get paid for that. While I have gotten my share of hate mail from the Klan, and arch conservative types, I was shocked at the reaction to my movie review. to me, it's just a movie, and I watch over 500 per year. But I think people have pre-ordained positions about certain subjects. My frustration with the film had to do with its wasting any time on cockamaie bomb theories or offering any platform to Nagin without challenging him. Also, because I am also a veteran interviewer, and because I did read the Brinkley book, I had dozens of questions I'd like to pose to many of the participants. |
Snakegirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 106
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 07:52 pm: |
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Wow.
You even say "cockamamie".
You know, KAM, I just detest so much that we're represented by and made invisible by MOSTLY WHITE White-looking men like yourself rather than a real black man.
As a Black woman, I was so irritated about the reviews you did of Monique's movie...not to mention your review of Kimberly Elise in "Diary of a Mad Black Woman".
It's like you really aren't plugged in to anything but YOUR suburban Half-White Boy bullshit view of a race and culture that is comprised of a MAJORITY AUTHENTIC BLACKS.....but because of institutionalized colorism....is most often spoken for by PHONEY pastey-faced white fuckers like yourself.
You're so fucking EDUCATED and SORRY that you're too ignorant to KNOW it---and I wish you'd cut that AFRO off your CLAM-chowder faced countenance, because you don't say SHIT that's worth anything to MY LIFE motherfucker.
But I guess your mother was a white woman, so what would you care about what I have to say.
khaferi ehn Khatiatak!
shomo keh umbassa dutu fanguhi
JOYTO-mira!
Got-damned niggerstock bastard!!
BRING BACK THUMPER!!!!
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Snakegirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 107
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 07:58 pm: |
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P.S.
Though she could only scrape together 11 cents to finance her movie---I thought it was REVOLUTIONARY that a film about a "fat" beautiful black woman loving and empowering herself could be made at all, and I'm certain that there's plenty of FAT BLACK WOMEN-----you know, that demographic who are rarely the subjects of a whole movie-------and felt some minor and fleeting respite in seeing a Plus Sized woman get to share her world, her feelings and be the CENTER OF ATTENTION for a change.
You are not my people.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4974
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 08:18 pm: |
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snakegirl and chrishayden sitting on a fence, tryin to make a dollar out of 15 cents. Shake em up, Kam. Make the veins in their necks stand out. I love it. LMAO. |
Kam
Newbie Poster
Username: Kam
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 09:59 pm: |
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I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation, and I'm just getting personal insults.
Sayonara Snakegirl |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6232
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:06 pm: |
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Kam,
I neither asked for nor expected you to respond to what has been posted here. I have found such to be a pleasant surprise. I appreciate your taking the time from you hectic schedule to defend your views.
I agree we ALL harbor biases that likely affect how and to whom one assigns fault for what occurred in New Orleans. But I am okay with that most inexorable truth: That people will disagree. |
Snakegirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 108
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:11 pm: |
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KAM,
I only said all that stuff because I love you.
And I want you to be better.
Yes...REALLY.
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Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:15 pm: |
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After reading all the posts, I had to go and read the review. I was not impressed or unimpressed with it; it was simply one man's opinion. The Katrina tragedy will always cause controversy and the blame will always be bounced around from official to official, from government agency to goverment agency. Good, bad or indifferent, I commend Spike Lee for taking it upon himself to do this. Quite frankly, I don't believe another black director would have taken the initiative to do it. Yet there have been at least two theatrical releases about 9-11. The story needed to be told and while I have it on TIVO and plan to curl up this weekend and watch it in its entirety, I am grateful that Spike Lee did the documentary. I personally know people who were trapped on their roofs for days and even know one woman who had a baby during the storm. She is still displaced and has moved from Houston to North Carolina to Atlanta with the baby. While 9-11 was tragic, NYC didn't go anywhere. Washington, DC, where I reside, didn't go anywhere either. The people of New Orleans had their lives turned upside down; all of them.
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Nom_de_plume
Newbie Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:22 pm: |
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I picked up The Great Deluge this morning and so far it is excellent. I highly recommend it! |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 409
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 01:00 am: |
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Wow.
Chris, I liked Sonny Bunch's review as well. However comparing Kam's review to Sonny's is not fair. Sonny's review, at almost 1,400 words, is three times as long as Kam’s and, as a result, is a completely different animal. Given three times the real estate one can explain and communicate much more. Perhaps that was the biggest flaw in Kam's review -- it was to short to effective communicate his opinion.
You know if you gonna trash a Spike Lee movie on Katrina you betta come correct.
Admittedly I was initially surprised almost shocked by Kam's review. When he sends me film reviews, he places the star rating at the end. When I read his reviews, I always scroll to the end to see the numbers of stars before reading the review. So when I saw 1 star for Spike’s effort, I got an attitude; because I knew I was still going to watch the movie irrespective of the rating and I do not like watching bad movies.
After watching the movie I thought Kam’s rating was too harsh. However after reading his commentary and responses in this post I understand his rating the movie a 1.
In my opinion, the movie communicated far too little information given its length. I was expecting a documentary, but this movie was not a documentary. I watched parts 3, 4, 1 and part of #2, in that order, and it was clear the order you watched the parts did not make a difference. Kam and Sonny pointed out issues in the movie that I agree with so I won’t repeat them here.
What the movie did do was help communicate what a complete and utter disaster Katrina was -- many of the stories were simply heart wrenching. Spike put and name and a face on it. Katrina was no longer a far away thing that we had just about forgotten about, but it is something that is impacting your mothers, sisters and brothers right now. But this could have been wrapped up in about two hours and perhaps been more effective.
Blkmalereading and snakegirl, Kam’s reviews are not published at the expense of Thumper. Thumper has simply been writing less reviews lately. For the most part, Kam’s reviews films and non-fiction books and Thumper reviews novels. Yes Thumper and Kam has completely different styles but there is certainly room for both
– and more.
Nom_de_plume, I hope you purchased The Great Deluge http://aalbc.com/reviews/the_great_deluge.htm via AALBC.com or at least your local independent Black book store right?
Kam, I’m glad to see you were not phased and scared off by the insults. I echo ABM’s sentiments and appreciate you posting your thoughts on the your review here at Thumper's Corner.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6234
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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Troy,
The title of Spike’s file is “When The Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts.” The operative word here is "Requiem".
The world REQUIEM influences how I judge the film. That says to me the PRIMARY purpose of the film to provide some vehicle of honoring and mourning those who were lost their lives, family, friendships, property, community and culture, to this horrible tragedy.
On THAT point, Spike clearly hit a HOME RUN.
You say the film was too long for its intended purpose. I disagree. I think Spike was attempting to explain what was unique and special about New Orleans and put such within context of what has been lost, not only to the citizens of New Orleans but to this nation as a whole.
And I do not think that that should be shoehorned into the duration of your average Hollywood movie.
If anything, I’d go in the OPPOSITE direction and assert that the film should have been LONGER and that it should have included much MORE of the uniqueness of New Orleans. Because, really, when you consider its history, people, music, food and politics, there’s no other place like it on earth.
For example, I understand that the Great New Orleans' native FATS DOMINO lost EVERYTHING to the flood, including his legendary piano, gold records and myriad other musical memorabilia. His history, experiences and losses ALONE would have been worth at least a half hour’s airtime. And were I Spike I might not have even released the film without at least attempting to secure some of such for the film.
PS: I doubt I’ll ever again be able to hear FATS DOMINO sing ~"Walking To New Orleans"~ without dayamnear blubbering like a friggin’ baby. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2630
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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Abm:
You got soul |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 411
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 08:21 pm: |
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ABM, go to the HBO web site you'll see, with little effort, that the film was billed as a documentary. As a result, that was what I was expecting.
Indeed Spike Lee, himself uses the word "Documentary" not "Requiem" when describing his own work, in an interview, also posted on the HBO web site.
Besides, based upon the definitions I've seen for the word "Requiem"; describing Spike's work as a “requiem” is a stretch at best. Judging the film based upon the word "Requiem" is nonsense.
Documentaries should focus upon facts and be a lot more objective that Spike’s piece. I expected, hoped for a dissection of what really went wrong in The Big Easy. I would have expected probing questions, more investigation; some new information might have been nice.
Look, I love Spike Lee, however when judging the value of this piece as a documentary, I disappointed. If I were to judge it as vehicle for allowing those effected to tell their stories – the work is priceless.
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Nom_de_plume
Newbie Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 01:39 am: |
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Troy,
I admit that in my haste I rushed to the closest bookstore and got a copy there - as soon as I woke up! Parts of it are very hard to read - I'm now at Monday morning when the coast has just fallen apart, and so has most of the power structure.
For my next book purchase I will order a title from AALBC though.  |
Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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Fats Domino not only lost everything. He was missing for a couple of days. I know his family members personally--the Domino family--and they were distraught when they could not locate him. Again, I have not had a chance to watch it in its entirety yet but even so, I am glad and appreciate that Spike Lee took on such an undertaking. Who else would have done it? |
Nom_de_plume
Newbie Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 05:02 pm: |
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^^^ For REAL!!! I don't understand the fuss, it is what it is. |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 416
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 09:02 pm: |
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Thank you Nom_de_plume, every book order counts!
-----
I've spoken to a few people about Spike's film and here is what I think:
Some people, I suspect the majority, are motivated by their emotions; they want to feel. All will agree that Spike's work was indeed moving and those that want to feel were completely satiated.
There is a smaller group, and I suspect a mostly male one, that wants to understand. These people want information and they want to analyze. Spike's film did not do too well in this regard.
Of course nothing is black and while and most people have chacteristics of both.
The fuss comes in when you try to explain to a feeling person why you may not have felt the same way. Feeling people (the less developed ones) internalize this, then react as if you were saying that their feelings are wrong or invalid, of course they get angry.
Of course this simply make no sense to the people who need to understand so they get frustrated and angry too. Their attemps to persuade with logic or facts is usually a waste of time.
Now you have the making of a fuss...
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Nom_de_plume
Newbie Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 20
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 02:32 am: |
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You are right, and to that I say that's exactly why The Great Deluge makes such a remarkable companion to the film. NO ONE is spared his criticism aside from the Coast Guard and you are feeling AND are able to accurately assess what went wrong.
Who's read Dyson's book? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1282
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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Troy, that is about as good an assessment of the divide over reactions to this film as I have read. (Although, I may disagree with you about it being mostly males who desire analysis.)
I would add that Katrina may be too close in time for many people to want to move to the analysis phase. Right now many of us are still in mourning, and we need outlets for that. In that respect, I think the naming of the HBO piece was dead-on in terms of what Spike Lee apparently achieved. (I say "apparently" because I have not yet seen it.)
An additional point I would make is that Spike Lee has never been one to "analyze" in his work. That is not his strength--definitely not for feature films, and perhaps not for his documentaries either. I have no problems with that, because deep analysis is not what I have come to expect from a work by Spike Lee. I think he provides excellent balance to efforts that would seek to disqualify Black emotions like sadness and rage, giving these feeling much needed space.
I hope that with time we all can begin searching for--demanding--explanations that are, perhaps less "exciting," but perhaps much more informative. We do need both--work that gets our heart rates moving and work that gets our little gray cells moving... |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1283
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 10:32 am: |
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One more note: All documentaries come with a point of view. "Objectivity" is a myth, as any decision that goes into the work is a choice among many, and will result in something given voice and something else silenced. One thing you can say about Spike is that you never have to wonder where his "voice" is coming from! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4994
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 01:46 pm: |
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IMO, the Katrina tragedy brought to light just one symptom of what ails this country. America is plagued with a multitude of ills most of which it will never recover from. The Katrina disaster is what it is; a tragedy that was just waiting to happen and one that will not be rectified because America has become a helpless, crippled giant, an inefficient monster bogged down by bureacracy, political partisanship, facism, and racism. In a captialistic society like America, if you have committed the sin of being poor, the powers-that-be will never forgive you. They will just sacrifice you on the altar of neglect. A year after Katrina wreaked havoc, things are still in disarray. All Spike Lee's documentary did was to depress and anger people. It will not make things better. The damage won't be undone and the heartbreak of Katrina will eventually fade from memory. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1285
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 02:45 pm: |
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I disagree with you, Cynique, about the role of Spike's film. To me, artists have the right--even the moral obligation--to make us face things we may not want to face, and feel things we may not want to feel. (And I intentionally say "artists," not celebrities or "entertainers.") If this film makes people depressed and angry, then that very well could be a good thing. If we cannot/will not channel such anger and depression into action, then that speaks more to our lack of maturity and, possibly, courage--not to the messenger's failings. It is not the job of a film to "make things better." That is up to us.
All this is not to say people have to like this or any other work in an asthetic or intellectual or any other sense. (As I said, I haven't seen it yet.) Just that I do not think the standards for disliking a work should be that it makes people feel badly or that it does not undo damages inflicted. (And I am not saying that you, Cynique, are using that as a standard for liking/disliking...)
As for the rest of your analysis, however, I tend to agree. Amen, amen, and pass the collection plate on the left hand side. LOL! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4996
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 03:07 pm: |
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I didn't dislike Spike's documentary because it made me angry and depressed, Yvette. I thought it accomplished something on that level because it evoked a visceral reaction, and an artist should, indeed, use his craft to capture truth. But truth doesn't always galvanize reform. Bottom line is that this documentary provides a visual history of an American tragedy and how it is critiqued is not really that importat. |
Blkmalereading
Veteran Poster
Username: Blkmalereading
Post Number: 70
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 08:17 pm: |
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I'm still troubled and don't understand how it is that the United States Government, the same big and bad boys who can land a helicopter in the middle of nowhere, can set up an entire army 'village' with running water, air and the basics of life, couldn't or wasn't used in this awful disaster. Something still feels so very wrong about this.
I was glad that Spike Lee did this piece. I agree that their has to be solutions but their must also be a proper grieving. I imagine that we now have hundred of thousand of people who are walking around deeply wounded from this. Things are not much better than they were a year ago. If nothing else the film has us talking about it and remembering.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-dec05/tsunami_12-26.html |
Jmho
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 164
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 11:41 pm: |
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Maybe the residents shouldn't want the government coming to Nawlins, and do as been done in Thailand:
To date, they've built over 1900 homes for displaced families, a fourth of them since August. Most of the work has been sponsored by the Thai government, which initially received high marks for its ambitious rebuilding program. In recent weeks, however, families moving into government homes are wondering whether the reconstruction has been too rapid.
The obvious example is of course, in the area of housing, shelter. Where government and different agencies were building housing for people that might actually not fit their needs -- wrong size, the wrong place, and just the wrong design. And of course, this is a very difficult challenge, because people need housing quickly. So you need to balance this urgency with getting it right.
It appears they are having the same problems over there, as over here:
HAKAN BJORKMAN: Probably that one of the biggest obstacle to the longer term recovery of these communities is the issue of land. Land disputes, land grabbing, the problem of people going back to where they used to live, and find that somebody is, is there, claiming the right to that land
Private interests have come in, taking advantage of the situation, and want to develop the land for tourism or other reasons. Of course it is shocking to see that people are having to face this problem after maybe having lost their family. They've lost their livelihood. And then they try to get back to normal, and they have lost their land as well. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6283
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 03:24 pm: |
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I JUST watched the section of “When The Levees Broke” that focuses on speculations about the levees. It starts about 23 minutes into the film (during Act I).
Here is what I observed:
@ Several Black foks say they heard several explosions, some saying they sounded like exploding electrical transformers.
@ Of all the opinions express, only ONE person (older Black man) explicitly asserted that the levees had been intentionally blown up. Just ONE.
@ There were references to prior issues, questions and politics about the construction and management of the levees when prior hurricanes occurred, including mentioning the levee system alleged being dynamited during the 1965 Hurricane “Betsy”. Presumably, the levees were destroyed to sacrifice poorer part of New Orleans to save the richer, tourist sections.
@ A BLACK man quite eloquently said he does NOT believe the levees were blown. He, instead, believe the explosions foks heard were that of the weight and power of water destroying the levees.
@ BLACK and WHITE foks said that the levees were NOT built as necessary. A White guy said they’d been working on the levees for FORTY YEARS and hadn’t finished them.
@ A WHITE man (local radio host) asserted that the levees should NOT have failed because they were supposed to be capable of withstanding the force that was being exerted against it from Katrina.
@ The primary, prevailing sentiment conveyed in Spike's films was that the levees failed because they were inadequately constructed, NOT that they’d been willfully, intentionally blown up.
@ And this constituted ONLY 10 minutes of a 240 minute film.
It seems there are foks who are just as interested in mischaracterizing Spike’s film as there are people who are allegedly interested in mischaracterizing what happen in New Orleans last August and September. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2654
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:14 am: |
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Yvettep:
HEAR! HEAR! |
Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 11:54 pm: |
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I finally had the opportunity to watch the documentary last night and when it ended with the people telling their names and background while holding up pictures frames, I sat there on the sofa in deep reflection of what I had just viewed. Now I have no idea why anyone would talk negatively about the documentary. First of all the amount of time, dedication and effort that had to go into undertaking such a task was beyond belief. That seemed like something that would have taken 5-10 years to compile. Instead, Lee had it done and on air in less than a year after the initial devastation. It takes longer than that to make most fly-by-night movies rather less epic movies; including preproduction, filming and editing.
Maybe I missed something but I did not think Ray Nagin was glorified. Those times when they showed him having to stand and be practically cussed out by residents alone showed he had to face humility in many ways.
I loved the fact that Lee showed the young and the old, the black and the white. He showed real people who were totally caught up in a madness that--by the grace of God--the majority of us will not have to face in our lifetime. Finding out how the insurance companies screwed people was deep. Seeing how people are in FEMA trailers with no electricity was deep. Showing that one white woman who said she had to prove that the piece of rubble sitting behind her was her own house was deep. Listening to the people talking about losing their loved ones was deep. It was all deep.
Lee even went as far as to explain the entire "levee" situation. Why they failed, what the Army corp of engineers is trying to do to make sure that it is now safe, how many feel that it will never be safe, etc. He took the entire fiasco from the beginning to the end, digging deep down into every aspect of it.
After reading the review by Kam, I halfway expected to be disappointed but I knew better. Glad I watched it and will be watching it over and over again. While I don't believe Lee did this documentary to win awards, if any film deserves it, When the Levees Broke is a first-rate contender.
I also disagree that men were expecting more analysis than women. It is a scientific fact that women make better lawyers, debaters, etc. because we think with both sides of our brains and men only utilize one. Don't believe me? Look it up.
Zane
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6322
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 10:25 am: |
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One of the (myriad) reasons why I enjoy visiting this site is how discussions will often permute into interesting debates about issues that are wholly unrelated to the initial/primary subject. I mean, who would have predicted that a debate about Spike Lee's "When The Levees Broke" would digress into a "Girls Are Better Than Boys!!" argument?
Hahahahaha!!! |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1300
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 09:20 am: |
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That ain't no argument. Just a statement of fact. LOL |
Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
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Actually, I was referencing Troy's comment:
"Some people, I suspect the majority, are motivated by their emotions; they want to feel. All will agree that Spike's work was indeed moving and those that want to feel were completely satiated.
There is a smaller group, and I suspect a mostly male one, that wants to understand. These people want information and they want to analyze. Spike's film did not do too well in this regard."
If there was any debate, it started with men being more analytical than women; not "Girls Are Better Than Boys!!" . I was simply making a correction based on scientific facts. Besides, I will be 40 in 17 days. I stopped being a girl and dealing with boys a long time ago. :-)
Zane |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3160
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 10:23 pm: |
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Zane's right.
I can't imagine anyone claiming that MEN are more "analytical" than women.
In fact----that's the #1 problem that men have with women...is that women are prone to thinking TOO MUCH, observing and picking apart every little detail of a thing.
Men love airhead bimbos for just this reason---they don't have to feel judged and "clocked".
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6355
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 06:17 pm: |
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Zane,
I read (somewhere) a study (or studies) that asserts females apparently wield more of a balance of both hemispheres of their brains than do males. However, I do not recall that being proven to any certainty.
And I don’t recall observing ANYTHING that proves women are better debaters and attorneys than men.
However, if you have evidence to the contrary, please reference to such here and I’ll happy accede.
PS: I meant for the Girl-Boy reference to be neither literal nor disrespectful.
Kola,
Of course, women are in EVERYWAY intellectually superior to men. At least history has manifest such. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2689
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 06:54 pm: |
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Zane:
After seeing this again for the Third Time I say to you HEAR HEAR!
Troy:
"Some people, I suspect the majority, are motivated by their emotions; they want to feel. All will agree that Spike's work was indeed moving and those that want to feel were completely satiated.
There is a smaller group, and I suspect a mostly male one, that wants to understand. These people want information and they want to analyze. Spike's film did not do too well in this regard."
You are just flat wrong.
You hate Spike Lee, don't you? Come on, fess up! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2692
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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Troy owes the women on this list--maybe all black women--maybe ALL women--an apology. |
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