| Author | Message | ||
     Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 944 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
At was at a writer's conference recently,a top literary agent urged us to forget about grammar, punctuation and spelling and just write. I was stunned. How important are the mechanics of writing and how can you be a great writer without mastering the basics? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14319 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Sounds like what elementary teachers advocated back in the 1960s, the theory being that it stunted a child's creativity to have to worry about spelling and punctuation, and that they should just be allowed to express their thoughts freely, unincumbered by the mechanics of writing. The result was a whole generation of people who were semi-literate when it came to expressing themselves on paper. I can understand using this method in composing a draft but, at some point, you gotta use the tools required to make your writing coherent... or maybe not. With all of the twittering and texting going on and the popularity of unedited street lit, the fine art of good writing may become obsolete. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 2006 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Robynmarie who was the agent and which conference was it? | ||
| Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 945 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
Jan Miller Dupree/Miller & Associates. They represent Dr. Phil and TD Jakes among others. She also said for nonfiction it is all about the "platform" i.e. having a built in audience and for fiction to sell it is all about the writing. Cynique-I agree, you have to know the "tools" to have your writing make sense. A misplaced period will change the entire context of the story. It is something a lot of writers (like me) struggle with. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2409 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
"at some point, you gotta use the tools required to make your writing coherent... or maybe not" "the theory being that it stunted a child's creativity" Cynique, I believe you are on to something. Also, you ended your comment with this... "With all of the twittering and texting going on and the popularity of unedited street lit, the fine art of good writing may become obsolete" At first glance, those comments could be taken negatively. Yet, when I look at them, I see value on both sides of the argument. I believe many writers are trying to "write" instead of telling a good story. The stories get bogged down with flowery prose, that serves to only stoke the ego of the writer. Sure, proper/good grammatic structure is paramount, yet, a well written story that is slow, tedious and boring, is in essence a poor story. You made the comment "at some point". I agree, at some point the story, if there is one, has to be pulled together. It's my opinion that some writers spend to much time trying to impress writers, or in many cases, their targeted readers. It's a losing battle to argue against the merits of "good writing" but again, I understand what the agent was trying to say. I think it's safe to say the agent made an assumption that the would-be writer is bring a few writing skills to the table. Here's my central point. In a race to see who could write the best book, I'll take a good story teller (spoken) over an English teacher. If a person doesn't have a story, they can't write it. Granted at some point..... | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2410 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Brown Robin. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8302 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
How important are the mechanics of writing and how can you be a great writer without mastering the basics? (Hemingway was rumored to be a poor speller and he was rescued by his editors. Many a great writer is great because of great editing. I hate Gone With the Wind, but apparently it was a pile of handwritten notes before the editor got involved. Apparently all of JK Rowlings manuscripts were messes. PUSH, upon which the movie PRECIOUS is based, apparently was no more than a bunch of handwritten draft pages when Sapphire's agent was able to get a half million dollar advance for it. Of course she was at the time the author of the hottest poetry collection out at the time. There have been times authors have gotten deals with ideas handwritten on paper napkins but usually they got a track record. I don't know. I would advise trying to turn in he best MSS you could. I think unless you make a hell of a personal impression or unless your subject is real hot, and unless you are submitting to a publisher or editor with an open mind and vast resources, you better try to get it as tight as you can get it. This agent may have just been speaking for herself and her agency. It would be best to carefully examine an agent or publisher's profile to discover how they feel about this. | ||
| Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 947 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hey Carey! What's crackin? You are spot on CH. Multi-million selling authors can probably "pitch" an idea on a napkin and get a book deal. For emerging writers like myself, focusing on nonfiction, it is all about having a wide network of readers already in my hip pocket, via a blog, website, TV or radio program. Since I am trying to develop such, the agent suggested I get a co-author who already has a following. Hate to sound cynical, but I got the feeling that writing ability is secondary in nonfiction. I guess that's what she meant by "just write". Another surprising thing I learned is that a novel does not have to be completed before submission. I had always heard fiction has to be complete before an agent or publisher will consider. Not any more; if they like the first few chapters and you are a writer comfortable with doing publicity they apparently will work with you to further develop (or bring in some "help" in the form of an editor or ghost writer). | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8305 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Hate to sound cynical, but I got the feeling that writing ability is secondary in nonfiction. I guess that's what she meant by "just write". (Not necessarily. Look at James Baldwin. Or Mike Royko. Or Hunter S. Thompson. Or any number of others) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14324 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Carey: "I believe many writers are trying to "write" instead of telling a good story. The stories get bogged down with flowery prose, that serves to only stoke the ego of the writer." Cynique: This pretentious style of writing, which is referred to as Purple Prose", is not considered "good" and can be a red flag to an editor. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14326 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
When all is said and dones, seems like the publishing business is really about potential and profit, and good writing skills are just secondary. | ||
| Carey AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Carey Post Number: 2411 Registered: 05-2004 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Cynique, I am going to use that. Purple Prose - huh? I wonder where that came from? Back in my stupid youth, I remember taking Purple Haze. Yep, I couldn't even find my brain, let alone write a story. Someone mentioned Hemingway, I love his style. Maybe it's because we have something in common.... I can't spell worth a damn :-) But you know what. At my wordperfect, it highlights misspelled words. Lord have mercy, you should see all the evil "red words". I also like Walter Moseley's writng style. | ||
| Thumper Veteran Poster Username: Thumper Post Number: 874 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Hello All, I agree with Cynique and Carey on this issue. It's one thing to write free full in the early stages, but if you don't have the tools to go back and shape it, rewrite it, and fine tune the focus on the story; what's the point in writing. I was at a Toni Morrison reading many years ago and naturally she was asked what it takes to be a good writer, and she said the person had to be willing to love the rewrite. The writer is going to have to rewrite the book, chapter, or sentence over and over and over again. Absent all of that, the person better have an excellent editor who loves the rewrite and the ability to see the trees for the forest. Due to the fact that there are not enough good editors out here could explain why I am encountering a higher level of trash coming my way. | ||
| Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 949 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
Thumper-do you see much nonfiction from AAs coming your way? I believe outstanding writing is more important in fiction than it is in nonfiction. African American writers excel in fiction, and are not represented enough in nonfiction. It has been my experience that editors and publishers want you to be an "expert" in what you are writing about. For instance, I pitched a NF book about dating violence among teens of color. The editor liked the idea, but said it would be better if I was a battered woman. WTF? | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8308 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Jan Miller Dupree/Miller & Associates. They represent Dr. Phil and TD Jakes among others. (Unless you are into ghostwriting, writing "As Told To" and such, I think you should pass on their advice. But as far as the lady was saying, she knows what is adequate for her needs. but if you don't have the tools to go back and shape it, rewrite it, and fine tune the focus on the story; what's the point in writing (Tell that to the woman who wrote "The Lottery". She wrote it in one draft and sent it in as is. Some can meet their audiences needs without this--people who publish novels that were written in a couple of weeks know all they have to do is sweep up the typoes. This of course is the literary fiction approach. Non fiction pulishers can't wait six and seven years for a novel. Their stuff is hot for a littl time. Journalists, people who wrote in tv and film are good. Robyn you sound like you are not committed to nonfiction writing at all. | ||
| Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 950 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
Why do you say I am not committed to NF writing? "Hungry for More" opened lots of doors for me. With my background in journalism, nonfiction writing comes easy. It is the marketing part that is the challenge. I would like to sign with a larger publisher, and as I said, the agents I have spoken to are encouraging me. However, they strongly recommend I develop a stronger platform and/or get a co-author with one. It is the reality of the publishing business. Books on the NF best-seller lists these days, suggest this is true. The most prominent AA NF writer is Malcolm Gladwell and he teaches at Harvard. BTW, I love "The Lottery", even though it was written generations ago. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8314 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Why do you say I am not committed to NF writing? (Most of the NF writers I am acquainted with are only worried about the check and getting their name on the project Did you work on a story in your journalistic career that you could expand into a book? Did you do a bunch of columns that could be compiled into one? | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8315 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
The editor liked the idea, but said it would be better if I was a battered woman. WTF? (the publishing business has become more like the entertainment business--a battered woman would get a larger market, face it. it's why Louis Lamour started wearing them cowboy hats and boots and stuff after he started writing Westerns. Its why James Ellroy pretended to be a right wing loon. Its why Hunter Thompson contrived to get himself stomped by the Hell's Angels. Break a leg, Robyn) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14334 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Margaret Mitchell, the author of "Gone With The Wind", was a newspaper journalist so she wasn't exactly an amateur writer. Also when making the movie, after firing several script writers, the director began lifting dialogue verbatim from the book, because Mitchell was so good at writing it. Robynnmarie, why not check out the non-fiction genre of biographies by researching and writing about the lives of interesting black people who have done something remarkable. | ||
| Thumper Veteran Poster Username: Thumper Post Number: 876 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Hello All, I don't see a lot of non-fiction written by AA authors that I want to read. I know that they are out there, its just the subject matter that they write about don't interest me. I would love to see more history and biography books written by AA authors. I have a feeling that they are out there but is not being published. | ||
| Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 952 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
Culling together old columns is a great idea for a book. Never thought of it. I would also love to write bios on Winnie Mandela, Angela Bassett and George Foreman. This got me to thinking...if you could write a bio about anyone alive or dead, who would get the honors? | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 8325 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
"Margaret Mitchell, the author of "Gone With The Wind", was a newspaper journalist so she wasn't exactly an amateur writer" (The book was a pile of shit until the editors rescued it. I stand by my statement. Let's see your proof) "the director began lifting dialogue verbatim from the book," (From the book, not the pile of scribblings the heifer had at first. You must think you Hattie McDaniel or somebody) "I would also love to write bios on Winnie Mandela, Angela Bassett and George Foreman. This got me to thinking...if you could write a bio about anyone alive or dead, who would get the honors?" Nobody wants to read about them stiffs. If I was gonna write a bio I'd write one about Rhianna. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 14372 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
My proof is Wikipedia's bio of Margaret Mitchell which I checked out to make sure of before posting what I had been reading and hearing about this novel for the past 50 years, | ||
| Robynmarie Veteran Poster Username: Robynmarie Post Number: 953 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
Rihanna,CH?? You mean when she is an old lady and has something interesting to say? Hate to say it, but I think "Robin" will be known for the CB beatdown from here on out. Her records aren't really selling like they used to. |
