| Author | Message | ||
     Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3558 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
File under "Things that make you go hmmmm".... ...Sometimes people write novels and they just be so wordy and so self-absorbed," West said. "I am not a fan of books. I would never want a book's autograph. I am a proud non-reader of books. I like to get information from doing stuff like actually talking to people and living real life"... Full article: http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur53489.cfm | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1815 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I read the article and I said to myself, "If this book is published by a major house, I'm giving up all home on humanity." Link to book on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0978967917/ref=nosim/aalbccom-20 It is not therefore I retain some glimmer of hope. The book is currently ranked #26 in music category -- no surprise there... Yvettep, this again is another symptom of our craziness. A grown man, the child of English professor, can now proudly exclaim "I am not a fan of books." This is too scary and pathetic for words. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13757 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I don't think you can judge Kanye by regular standards. Right-brained people like him and Lil Wayne are creative geniuses, able to beguile us with words that evolve into clever succinct quips and couplets. Kanye is eccentric and ego-driven but his uniqueness redeems him. I would rather see somebody like Kanye, who seems to have a good deal of self-awareness and who has invented his own genre, put out his provocative little journal than some smug deluded person who thinks the trite, poorly-written garbage they have written is a what the world has been waiting to read. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1816 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, maybe I'm wrong but I'm not sure why you consider Kanye is so unique. Perhaps it is my inability to distinguish his talent from so many unsung artists out there who have not made it. Cynique we all unique, gifted with talents and abilities not found in the same combination in any other individual. Some call it "crazy" other call it "creative genius". Stevie Wonder is a creative genius (and has exhibited far more talent than Kanye). Stevie and he can be judged by "regular standards" (whatever that means); and I do not think one would arrive at "crazy". Comparing Kanye's garbage with the writings of a "smug deluded person[s]...trite, poorly-written garbage makes little sense. Garbage is garbage. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13760 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Most music critics give Kanye his props. I have always discerned an element of truth in his rhymes which is why I find them fascinating. Kanye is an original. He has set the standard for all of the other undiscovered artists out there waiting to be discovered and I'm sure he is their inspiration. Stevie Wonder is a run-of-the-mill genius. IMO | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1819 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
"run-of-the-mill genius" is internally incongruous, a contradiction in terms, PLUS you can't talk about Stevie like that! LOL Truth has been in rhymes since before Wheatley. Kanye: "original", "set the standard", OK you must be TRYING to get me riled up. OK, I'll bite: Please give me one example of a rhyme of Kanye's which exhibits "Unique", "creative genius". | ||
| Hen81 Veteran Poster Username: Hen81 Post Number: 194 Registered: 09-2007 Rating: N/A |
This so-called book by Kanye West exhibits a wreckless attitude towards something that young people need to more of and not less, reading. A guy with his stature can do great harm and blunt the efforts of literacy groups nationwide that are promoting the value of reading. His attitude is from a ego driven viewpoint. The irony of West saying some writers are "wordy and self-absorbed." is laughable coming from the king of self-centered behavior. The amazon reviews speak for themselves. If one young person uses Kanye's statement as a reason to avoid reading, then he has erased much of whatever positive influence he brought to the table. www.DTPollard.com | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13765 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
First of all, Troy, IMO, Stevie Wonder is not unique. He is a gifted blind musician of whom there are many. A person can be a genius without being unique; a genius is simply a highly capable person who excells at their calling.(What is unique about a math genius? He is a expert at the exact science of math buty he is not one-of-a-kind.) Kanye West doesn't require justification. His accolades awards and critical acclaim speak for themselves, not to mention his record sales. I am not saying that he is a literary giant or an erudite scholar but I am saying that he is extraordinary when it comes to doin what he does because his approach is fresh and original and he has taken Rap in another direction. The tid bit of truism quoted in the article with its cadence and repetitivenes was pure Kanye. To wit: "Get used to being used. I don't feel like to misuse, overuse or abuse someone is negative. To use is necessary and if you can't be used, you are useless." I don't know whether printing any of West's rhymes would constitute a copyright infringement but how about this one: "I know people don't usually rap this. But I got facts to back this. Just last year Chicago had over 600 caskets. Man, killing is some whack s h i t." Powerful, yet cogent. Yes, Kanye West is an ego-centric odd ball but it can't be denied that he has tapped into the vein of his generation. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1820 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, who are obviously a great fan of Kayne. But now you are muddying the issue by playing word games. By definition "unique" is "one of a kind". If you look hard enough we all exhibit some form of uniqueness. However this has nothing to do with genius. Sure you will find more that one genius in any field of endeavor, making them not "unique" but geniuses are the exception, rare, and NOT run-of-the-mill. As far as rhymers are concerned Kayne is no genius. In terms of relative genius, if you are going to sit there and argue that Stevie Wonder is a "run-of-the-mill genius", while Kanye is an "extraordinary" and "original Genius"; as much as I would like to, I doubt I'll truly understand this perspective. Lets Teach Kayne to play and few instruments, have him raise our collective social consciousness, in both word and deed, and blindfold him -- then we can talk. Sure the words you quoted by Kanye are clever, but should not be mistaken for genius. I'm no poetic scholar, but this particular phrase by Kayne does not introduce anything new: It is a statement of the obvious "...killing is some whack shit". The style is simple end rhyme "this", "this", "caskets", "whack shit" (with some poetic license). Actual genius brings something new or does something old in a prodigious way or both. You use record sales, "critical acclaim" and awards to justify and support your assertion of Kanye's genius but this ignores that fact that Kayne says some ignorant shit too. This is not the sign of genius, rather a large flashing neon sign of ignorance... Perhaps Kayne true genius lies in his arrogant ignorance. As Hen81 points out given Kanye's popularity his words have can be particularly damaging. Awards, as we have argued here many times, mean little in terms of identifying and rewarding true genius, they are often popularity contests, or payola. Record sales obviously have nothing to do with genius as typically the work which sells most appeals to the masses, who usually have little tolerance for genius of crafting words. And for every critic you find to praise Kayne I can find another that says the opposite. [Actually I just now went back and read some of the words of the "critics" who have purportedly read Kaynes "book"] virtually all read like this: I will give Kayne credit for the "George Bush doesn't care about Black people"; later expanded, after some reflection, to include all people. I give Kayne credit not because I agree with Kayne's ability to divine the true motivation of Dubya or the reckless way in which he delivered the statement. I give Kayne credit because he was being "real" and was using his celebrity to help Black people who desperately needed the president's support. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13767 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
We could get a lot further in this discussion if we would stop comparing apples with oranges. Which is what juxtaplosing Stevie Wonder with Kanye West is doing. Just because Kanye doesn't play an instrument is irrelevent. That's not his calling. A genius doesn't have to be versatile. We could also benefit from not blurring the word "individuality" with the word "unique". Yes, some critics have slammed West but how surprising is that?? All musicians are embraced by some and dismissed by others. I am not a rabid fan of Kanye but I do see him as emblematic and I am contending that he has invented his own genre something which contributes to his uniqueness, and he is the best at what he has created, something which contributes to his originality. My perspective is probably different from yours, Troy. I grew up listening to ballads, rich in strong melodic content and replete with exquisite poetic lyrics. And I find the minimalist style of rappers very engaging, especially their talent for saying in couplets what it took traditional lyricists to say in 2 verses. And, like others, I see a common line between jazz instrumentalists and spitting rappers. And again, I emphasize that I am not proclaiming Kanye West to be a literary paragon. I don't think his intent was to write a masterpiece. He is just sharing his peculiar philosophy with anyone who wants to contemplate what he has to say. His detractors seem more preoccupied with assassinating his character. He's not that different from the self-absorbed Prince who kept journals and always attributed great profundity to his simple thoughts. Ogden Nash and e.e. cummings carved a place for themselves in the annals of American literature by writing such cohesive verses as: "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker". And: "if called by a panther, don't anther".  People on this board always get agitated when arguing with me presumably because I don't play by their rules. Maybe they should play by my rules and think outside the box. | ||
| Yvettep AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 3559 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, I, too, am a Kanye fan. I have all of his stuff up until the last album. (Haven't been able to get into it myself, tho I am happy he tried to do something outside of the box.) I am even a fan of his gigantic ego. If what he wrote in his book was in any way clever, even in its simplicity, I would probably have less of a problem with it. But things like "I hate the word hate" is what me and my friends were thinking was profound when we were in 8th grade. Now, to be fair, I have not read the whole book. Perhaps the media is just picking the most silly "Kanye-isms" to highlight because they do not like West. About what he said about not liking books: I do think it's pretty ignorant. I am not a big fan of anti-intellectualism generally, and boasting about it is really a turn-off. I compare what West said to the Will.I.Am interview we talked about here before. At least he seemed to have a sense that what he was saying was somewhat shameful, or that he had *tried* to read books but had trouble. And again the same point as before: No, a celebrity is not necessarily a "role model." But young people have to understand that there are a lot more failed illiterate and sub-literate people than successful ones like these two. They are exceptions that others should not pattern their reading habits after, IMO. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13769 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Again I say, I am not a Kanye West fanatic and I was not endorsing or praising his book, because I haven't read it, either. Furthermore, I'm inclined to blame the trend away from reading more on the internet than on rappers. But I will say that if, indeed, Kanye is a role model for young people, then his aversion to reading books is counterbalanced by the positive messsages embedded in his rhymes which are comparable to sermons and lectures. He is not a gangsta rapper, and I didn't get the impression that he was encouraging young people not to read. Kanye West is apparently someone who learns through doing, and not reading. There are a lot of "hands-on" folks out there like him. But I have faith that a hard core segment of readers will always be with us. They need only something worthwhile to read. Therein lies the problem. | ||
| Emanuel Veteran Poster Username: Emanuel Post Number: 698 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
This book is going to be published by Greenleaf Book Group. (http://www.greenleafbookgroup.com/book.cfm?BookID=402) Authors pay to have their books published there. (I've reviewed two books by this press. They were hardcover and looked very professional.) There is an article on the publisher at Inc. Magazine here: http://www.inc.com/inc5000/2007/company-profile.html?id=2006224 | ||
| Emanuel Veteran Poster Username: Emanuel Post Number: 699 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
BTW, there are no degrees of unique. You're either unique or not. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13772 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
The categories of "genius" was what was being discussed, and how what it is that a person is a genius at obviously differs from genius to genius, with it being conceivable that what one person has an extraordinary gift for is more impressive than what another person has an extraordinary gift for. | ||
| Emanuel Veteran Poster Username: Emanuel Post Number: 700 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Agreed. | ||
| Schakspir AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 1270 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Troy, you might want to consider moving to Berlin. Don't worry, there are black people there, too. | ||
| Troy AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Troy Post Number: 1828 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Nah Schakspir, I'll stay put. I had a birthday party for my 16 year old yesterday and really tried to listen to Kayne's music. Honestly, I still find nothing remarkable about it. Then it occurred to me that I'm comparing Kayne's work to all the other music I've been exposed to... Which is probably why I failed to recognize his talent. If I compare Kayne to a Soulja Boy or Young Jeezy (or is it skeezy), then I'd have to agree; Kayne is a genius. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 13792 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Finally you are gettin it, Troy. You don't have to like what it is a person is a genius at. You just have to realize that it is what it is and the person responsible for creating what it is, is extraordinary at doing so. |
