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Kola
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Post Number: 2110
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 12:12 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Sportscaster Apologizes
for calling Serena Williams
an..."Ape"




Veitz

05 September 2005

(AP/New Zealand)


Radio Sport breakfast host Tony Veitch has been forced to apologise for remarks he made on air about United States tennis star Serena Williams.


Speaking to Fight For Life promoter and former Kiwis league player Dean Lonergan on Friday, Veitch said about the African-American Williams: "Do you know where the apes come from?

"She is a reminder."

That prompted condemnation from race relations conciliator Joris de Bres and action from Radio Network general manager of talk programming Bill Francis who directed Veitch to make the apology, which he did at 7.10am today.

"During Friday's show in a banter and exchange with Dean Lonergan, I made some comments about Serena Willams," Veitch said.

"Those comments were unjustified and they were totally inappropriate.

"I regret making those comments, I am sorry and apologise unreservedly for the offence that they may have caused."

Francis confirmed to NZPA he had asked Veitch to make the apology. "The apology has been made and the matter is now ended."

He would not say what other action might be taken. "We've made the apology. Everything else that happens in relation to this is internal so I won't be making comment other than that. Tony gets on with doing his job on breakfast."

Francis said the reason he directed Veitch to apologise had nothing to do with any potential impact on Radio Sport.

"It's got nothing to do with the impact. It was comments that shouldn't have been made and so we've rectified that by making an apology."

Francis said Veitch had not been making a racial slur. "They (the comments) certainly weren't intended to be racist."

Mr de Bres said Veitch's comments did not "bear a lot of analysis in terms of his attitudes to what seems to be African women".

It is not the first time The Radio Network has been caught up in controversy over inappropriate racial comments.

Newstalk ZB host Paul Holmes was forced to make a public apology after calling United Nations head Kofi Annan a "cheeky darkie".

___________


Of course this story about Serena
is under-reported in America. SMH

.....ANYWAY

Congratulations TO Kim Clijsters who just won the U.S. OPEN.

She put on a good show and I LOOOVED watching her kick ass. GO KIM!




Kim

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Africanqueen
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 01:26 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To me,

It only matters when a sister wins :-). But congrats to Kim, I dunno who she is and I don't think I want to until the twins win once more... or another blk chick steps up, lol. It's going to be tough, but "we can do it" LOl.

Screw the racist comments.. Kola, I don't even wana read this article. I'm just too lazy, but I don't like it when a black person is insulted in any way.
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Roxie
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 07:46 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First it's "so poor, so black" from Wolf blitzer, now this. The Wizard's curtain has finally opened.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I apologise for changing the subject, but here's something I've been thinking about for awhile:

I think Nichole Kiddman is way too white and because of this, I think she's very unattractive.

Now, I know I'd be wrong if I said this in a forum like the one Tony Veitch was in, but am I wrong for THINKING Nichole Kiddman is too white; therefore extremely unattractive?

Anotherthing: I also think that people like Beyounce and Ashanti are not beautiful at all; because, to me, they're watered down versions of true European beauty. For example, how can I think Vanessa Williams is beautiful when she's such a major watered down version of someone like Sharon Stone. And also, Compared to Paris Hilton and Jessica Simpson, people like Ashanti and Beyounce are very attractive. Halle Berry I get because, although she doesn't look black, she has an authentic ethnic beauty -- she could easily pass for a greek or arabic woman; so her beauty is not watered down. But I don't get some of these other women, because they are very poor versions of the true European beauties like Marylin Monroe, Audrey Hepburn, Liz Taylor, Demi Moore, and countless other white female superstars.

Am I wrong for THINKING all of this?

Tonya

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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"{Compared to Paris Hilton and Jessica Simpson, people like Ashanti and Beyounce are very attractive.}"

My bad. I meant to say unattractive:

Compared to Paris Hilton and Jessica Simpson, people like Ashanti and Beyounce are very unattractive.
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Roxie
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 06:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I dont think so, tonya.
The same guidelines should apply to white women as it does for us.
something I noticed: Marilyn,audrey, liz and Demi have always retained their natural, NORMAL weights while keeping any cosmetic surgery ( if there was any) to the basic minimum, unlike these overly-tanned, overly-bleached waifs that are running around now. And actual personalities at that. I guess that's what makes them so beautiful.

In response to the Nicole Kidman thing, we were always considered "too dark" in their eyes, doesn't it only balance the universe when we consider them "too white" ? Just my $0.02.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 07:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, if there were more women in the media who possessed true (authentic) black beauty, it would be easier to point out how those kind of women could effortlessly compete with true (authentic) European beauty. As I stated before, Halle Berry can compete with European beauty because her look is authentic. Many mixed women like Halle look authenticly Greek, Hispanic, or Arab and the ones who are beautiful have no problem competing with beautiful European women. Similarly, there are a few women on the runway and many more that I've seen in person who possess authentic black beauty and would not have a problem competing either.

It's hard for us to see this because, as a people, we're too color-struct.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 07:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roxie??? I don't get your point???
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 07:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"The same guidelines should apply to white women as it does for us."

Roxie, I wasnt talking about "US" - I was talking about the most beautiful among us. Regardless of race, most of "US" are average. And again, regardless of race, only a very, very small percentage of people are perfect looking or physically beautiful. What I explained in my post does illustrate the way we ("US") veiw ourselves regarding race and beauty; infact, thats the reason why I said it, but I specifically used female superstars to get my point across.

Tonya
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Roxie
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 08:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,
When I said "I don't think so", I was anwswering your question "Am I wrong for THINKING all of this?",
I meant that I didn't think that you were wrong for thinking like that.

Sorry 'bout the confusion.:-)

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Renata
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 08:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

black or white...paris hilton is ugly for anybody.

I still think that the most beautiful woman on earth is Sheryl Lee Ralph. I would look like her if it were possible. Gotta love the lips!
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 09:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But be honest, Paris Hilton is better looking than Ashanti and Beyounce. I don't think Paris is all that beautiful either, but it proves my point, neither is Ashanti and Beyoynce.

And I agree, Sheryl Lee Ralph is drop dead gorgeous. I also think the female who played Tina Turner's biological sister in the movie that stars Angela Bassett, is extremely beautiful as well. Notice I don't know her name -- since she's authentic looking she'll probably never be famous; yet she's more beautiful than Paris, Ashanti, and Beyounce combined.

Tonya
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 03:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

I don't think you're "wrong" for thinking that Nicole Kidman's pale skin is "too white"--it's your opinion. However, would you think it to be wrong for a person, any person (regardless of race), to think of a dark skin black as being "too black"?

In terms of physical beauty, I think facial features/structure is far more important than skin color. However, everyone has an opinion about what is beautiful and what is not. I don't look at Beyounce or Ashanti as being "watered down Europeans", either. To me, Ashanti is just an average looking black chic--pretty skin tone, but average (in the face). However, in my opinion, Beyounce is incredibly beautiful!!!! She is definitely more attractive than Paris Hilton, Jessica Simpson and most "authentic" Europeans. She is definitely more attractive than most "authentic" Africans as well. I think if Nicole Kidman, Beyounce and Sheryl Lee Ralph were in a line-up, MOST men would pick Beyounce--hands down. Now, I'm not saying it's right, that is just that way it seems to be--and will proably always be.

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Renata
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ashanti is pretty, Beyonce isn't.
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Slow Poke
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agreed with all that you wrote Moonsigns except for this comment:

that is just that way it seems to be--and will proably always be.


NOW ME: I think White women once said that slavery would always be and that Jim Crow and Segregation was just the way it is and would always be.

I don't believe that Beyonce or light and white will always be the beauty standard for Black people.

I think that's a phase that will eventually be nipped in the bud just like everything else that black people had to overcome and we all know that black women the world over are adept at bringing down these social structures. Just think how they tore down slavery (Harriet Tubman), Jim Crow and Segregation.

Cause and effect creates "backlash".




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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Moonsigns -- good to hear from you!

Slow Poke, you're absolutely right -- it wont be long before ALL that changes.

Moonsigns:

“…However, would you think it to be wrong for a person, any person (regardless of race), to think of a dark skin black as being "too black"?”

Tonya:

Yes, I think it’s wrong/abnormal/ignorant for people of the same race to think one of their own is too white/black.

And, no, I don’t think it’s wrong/abnormal/ignorant to think someone from a different race is too white/black.

If you notice, white people love themselves some Nichole Kiddman. I think she’s too white, but white people think she’s one of the most beautiful women ever. Look at how much money she has/is making off her “beauty”. And wasn’t she once married to the most successful and (some Say) the most handsome man of her days. She may be too white for me, but white people think she’s just right -- and all of that is normal.

It’s also normal for white people to view some of us harshly. I don’t agree with Tony Veitch’s actions, but he certainly isn’t wrong to feel/think that way.

What is NOT normal is how black people feel/think about women like Serena and Alec Wek.

Alec Wek Should be our Nichole Kiddman--Beyounce should Not...

THAT'S ABNORMAL

As for Cheryl Lee Ralph and Beyounce, I agree that most YOUNG men (regardless of race) would choose Beyounce. But lets not forget - Cheryl is old enough to be Beyounce's mother. MATURE, intelligent, black men - however - would choose Cheryl in a heartbeat. Although it may seem like all black men are immature and color-struck, that really is not the case. Our attention is directed at the ones who are color-struck because, nowadays, they’re way too influential. But there are still a lot of good intelligent black men left, and incidentally, most of the black men I know fit that profile.

Also, Most people don’t know this, but when Beyounce is not wearing her make-up, she look like a young white/Hispanic girl. Her skin is much lighter, her eyes are not slanted at all, and she look completely white. So, no, most black men would not choose her over Cheryl, because -believe it or not - she would be too white for them.

Tonya






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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Yal funny, comparing "too black" to "too white" :-) But this is a good way to look at it. It's good to see what white people have got to say about their pale group of people and for us to compare it to what we say about our blue black group of people. But the truth is, white people do not stress Nicole's "whiteness" and question it. They simply think she is beautiful and color has nothing to do with it. I personally never thought about her color, I just watch some of her movies, and why should I? Color should never be an issue and black people who think Alek Wek are obviously not living a very satisfactory kind of life. Because all they're doing to themselves wishing they were in fact, Nicole Kidman.

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Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Completing my sentence, lol: Many people who think of Alek Wek as "being too black" are not living a very satisfactory life because they long to be represented by a white lady like ALicia Keys, or Beyonce, etc.. and that is pretty much not smart :-).
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Blkamericanking
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 06:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't fall for that European standard of beauty crap. As far as i am concerned, Nicole Kiddman is not a beautiful white woman. To me, Beyonce is cute but not my idea of black beauty. I must also say that i find black women from all complextions beautiful. Sheryl Lee Ralph, Angela Basset, Debbie Allen, Felicia Rashad, Angela Stribbling from BET and Beverly Johnson who was a model and actress years ago. Beverly Johnson is drop dead GORGEOUS!! We need to stop allowing others define what is black beauty and what is not.
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Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 08:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alek Wek is perfect. Only dark women can carry off the shaved head better. Remeber Sinead O'connor? [shudders]
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Afroamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 12:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think both Ashanti and Beyonce are beautiful women! I can't see why someone couldn't find the beauty in Black women from Vanessa Williams all the way down to Kenya Moore.

We shouldn't feel like we have to "choose" 1 type.
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 01:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not choosing -- Just being honest.

Unlike most people on these boards, I'm not afraid to say what I think.

Moonsigns: you really think Beyounce is more beautiful than most authentic European women.... Ok... wink-wink.... yeah, Ok.

You mean the ugly ones, right?

Roxie, Alek Wek is "all that", huh? All what? Baaaald?? Whatever!!!

Afroamerica..... Puleeeeeeze..... who ya kidding???????

Surely not the "ugly" Operah Whinfrey and Nel Carter!

SOUNDS GOOD FOLKS - but please - it's cyberspace---YOU CAN KEEP IT REAL.

Realer than this - at least.

Tonya

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Afroamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 01:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

'Keeping real Tonya'

where did I ever say or even ever IMPLY that Oprah or Neil Carter where "pretty" in any way?

I do recall saying that Black women are beautiful in many different looks- from Vanessa Williams to Kenya Moore.

I still don't see any reason why a person can't feel Beyonce is pretty if they find Ashanti attractive...........

Anyhow, stay hood'...........
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 02:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, so "Keeping it real" means keeping it "hood".

Well tell me, what does the more "acceptable" phrase "being yourself" means???

Do You know - or is it that as long as "masta" says it's "acceptable" - that's all you need to know.

Tell you what: I'll keep it HOOD -- You keep it IGNORANT -- but keep in mind, there's a difference -- so you and I are not the same.

Tonya
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Renata
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 03:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ashanti simply has a pretty face. Beyonce doesn't (IMO).
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Renata
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 03:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That has nothing to do with skin color. Just because two people have similar color, doesn't mean that they'll both be cute.
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Danielle
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 03:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I don't know what an authenic European woman is supposed to look like. When I was overseas, the women I saw looked normal to me. Yup I think Beyonce is pretty when got her make-up on and has good lighting. The same goes for The Winfery. And I have never thought Alek Wek was cute. She has a beautiful complexion but that as far as it goes for me.
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 03:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

Well, call me wrong, abnormal, and ignorant because I don't think Nicole Kidmans's skin tone is appealing/attractive. She is as white as the day is long--but white to the point where it looks as if she is lacking nutrients....an unhealthy white with yellowish understones--like her liver is malfunctioning. While White people have skin that is (obviously) more pale, a certain amount of sun does give the skin a healthier appearance--AND, White people look NOTHING like Black/Brown folks when they tan--AND, aren't trying to look so (a huge misconception).

I have seen women who are very pale and are incredibly attractive. Again, to me, beauty has more to do with facial structure/symmetry than skin tone.

"Alec Wek should be our Nicole Kidman"-Tonya

Tonya, I'd agree with that comment if we were speaking of Africans living in Africa. In America, obviously, Black folks will ALWAYS be a wide range of hues. Beyounce, although not as dark as Alec, will never look in the mirror and see a white face. BTW, Beyounce doesn't look white or hispanic without makeup. Jessica Simpson looks white without makeup. Pamela Anderson looks white without makeup.

And, yes, I do think Beyounce is more attractive than most "authentic" Europeans (and Africans)--her fashion sense SUCKS, but her body, skin tone and perfectly symmetrical face are something stunning!

I find it interesting that you equate the level of a Black man's intelligence and maturity by the skin tone of his mate.

While I'm not saying it's fair, I think it's wishful thinking to suggest that the average man wouldn't choose Beyounce over most other Black women. Men choose women based on body shape (the more hour-glass, the better) as well as age, as both are subconscious indicators of thriving, reproductive organs. And, a symmetrical face is also very important--the potential for the female to produce attractive offspring. Beyounce possesses all three of these qualities. Therefore, regardless of skin tone, men would desire her moreso than women who don't possess all three. She wouldn't be "too white", she'd be (by nature) damn near perfect. And, truth be told, everyday females (across the board), myself included, don't have all three qualities. That's life.








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Africanqueen
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 04:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)



Moonsign said: "Alec Wek should be our Nicole Kidman"-Tonya

Tonya, I'd agree with that comment if we were speaking of Africans living in Africa.

I say: Moonsign,

And Nicole Kidman is Australian not American....

Moonsign said:In America, obviously, Black folks will ALWAYS be a wide range of hues.


I say: Moonsign,

And what a shame that is for black people to be the wide range of hues.


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Africanqueen
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 04:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moonsign,

If we're going to be catagorized as black people no matter where in the world we live, we might as well be saying that both ladies, Alek and Beyonce are not different. They're both black. And so when Tonya talks about Wek in comparison to Kidman, she does not have to prefer to Africans living in Africa. Because we're obviously not talking about Australians living in Australia when we talk about Kidman, get me?
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 04:53 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moonsigns said:

Alec Wek should be our Nicole Kidman"-Tonya

"Tonya, I'd agree with that comment if we were speaking of Africans living in Africa"

Tonya Says:

I'll AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT IF YOU'LL AGREE TO SEND NICHOLE KIDMAN'S UGLY, PALE, ROTTEN LIVER, DOG SMELLEN, ASS BACK TO EUROPE!!!

Also, your cute Moonsigns, but please don't think I'm going to fall for your pretending to know more about BLACK MEN than me. You gotta come better than that - sis - I'm good at picking my street fights.


Tonya
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 05:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AQ, I'm a slow typer, so I didn't see your comments until after I posted mine.

I see I wasted my time - but good lookin out.

Tonya
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Renata
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 06:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Africans also come in a wide range of colors. There are many Cameroonians here in Atlanta who are many different colors. I've even met a couple of them who had red hair. South African, Liberian, Nigerian, Cameroonian, Cote' D'Ivoirians (sp?), and Senegalese all look just as different from each other as we Americans do...which is why they fit in so well with us.

One thing I've noticed with Africans, many of them seem to dislike Nigerians. And some of the Nigerians that I've met, try to pass as Liberian, Ghanian, and Gambian. Why is that?

(as you can tell, I don't know much about Nigerian politics or whatever it is....please enlighten me.)
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 06:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nigeria is the wealthiest, most powerful country in WEST AFRICA.

It is also the most corrupt in African history.

Also---

West Africans are notorious "skin bleachers" and often DYE their hair.

Of all the Africans---the "Hip hop culture" and Black American internalization of Eurocentric standards affect West Africans the worst, because they are Blood Relative PARENT of the Black Americans and copy everything the AAs do.

I used to NOT LIKE Nigerians until very recently. Long story.

I'm not too fond of Somalis and Ethiopians either, because their societies are so colorstruck and vain-glorious. They don't like White People, but they don't like "Negro" (the West Africans) either.

I don't usually like South Africa either. Too "niggerish" in thinking; slave mentality.




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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 06:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also Renata----it may not be the country, but the TRIBE of the person that people don't like.

Some tribes are enemies.

The major Nigerian tribes are Yoruban, Igbo and Ekoi.

The countries you mention have entirely different tribes...Hausa, Wolof, Mandingo, Ashanti, Nbele.

The Fulani are big in Nigeria and the countries you mention.

___________

I love "Congolese", South Sudanese, Kenyans, Senegalese, Liberians, Ghanians.

"Some" Ethiopians...and Nigerians.

I LOVE the people of MALI, but especially their women.

(My children's father is a Pure blood Garifuna from CENTRAL AMERICA, Belize----the Garifuna originally came from MALI).

I have deep sexual desire for NEGRO men (West Africans).

Not to keen on Nilotic, East African, North African men (my own region).





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Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 06:56 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya: --SOUNDS GOOD FOLKS - but please - it's cyberspace---YOU CAN KEEP IT REAL.--


Tonya, we're ALL "keeping it real". We just don't do it like you. We may be all black here but we're not your frickin' clones!:p

Your obviously agitated.Take a nice, long nap and come back when you've calmed down. (jeez.)
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 07:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think Beyonce is GORGEOUS!! I love her face, body.

Not the outrageous hair and her attempts to look like another race---but she is very beautiful to me.

When it comes to very light skinned women---Beyonce and Halle Berry have the type of beauty I can relate to. Jill Scott is downright West African looking!!

Of course--like Tonya--I do feel that women like Sheryl Lee Ralph, Lauryn Hill and Rokia Taore are more beautiful.

But that's because they're more African, more representative of Black people's beauty.

I see light skinned women as being PART OTHER.







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Moonsigns
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 09:31 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AfricanQueen,

Your point would be valid....if America didn't have the history it does.
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 09:55 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

I'm not "pretending" to know more about Black men than you. What I presented to you regarding men, in this case men who happen to be Black, IS based in science (youth, body face and symmetrical facial structure). It has not ONE thing to do with race/color.
On another note, I find it hysterical that you'd want to pick a fight--a "street fight" at that that--over how complicated and unique you think/suggest Black men are. All men want to fed, sexed and have a relaxed place to call home/and to rest. If you want to fight about it, go find some other white woman--one who is stupid enough to believe that is worth fighting about.
But, hey, let me know when you do come across her--I love to watch boxing! *wink*

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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 02:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roxie --

I've been hitting the gym these last couple of days, so - you were right - I was suffering from lack of sleep/rest.

Sorry Boo, hope ya still love me!

Moonsigns, you said:

"While I'm not saying it's fair, I think it's wishful thinking to suggest that the average man wouldn't choose Beyounce over most other Black women. Men choose women based on body shape (the more hour-glass, the better) as well as age, as both are subconscious indicators of thriving, reproductive organs. And, a symmetrical face is also very important--the potential for the female to produce attractive offspring. Beyounce possesses all three of these qualities. Therefore, regardless of skin tone, men would desire her moreso than women who don't possess all three. She wouldn't be "too white", she'd be (by nature) damn near perfect. And, truth be told, everyday females (across the board), myself included, don't have all three qualities. That's life."

No, Moonsigns, the average man is respectable, god fearing, hard working and responsible -- it's apparent they're not like the kind of men you're used to, so try looking at it this way:

How many white men would choose Britney Spears over Princess Dianna, were she alive?

Out of the few that would choose Britney over Dianna, think about what kind of men they must be?

Now, how many black men would choose Beyounce ( a white looking woman who fashes her near naked body in public) over Sheryl Lee Ralph (A Queen).

Out of the few that would choose Beyounce over Sheryl, think about what kind of men they must be.

Get my point(s)???

Like good (AVERAGE) white men - good (AVERAGE) black men are NOT the ignorant sex craved violent animals the media make them out to be. Like white men - they're human, they love, they care, they're emotional, and they're searching for someone who feels the same way; therefore - like most white men - they prefer to LOVE Queens and Princesses much more than SEXING whores, hoochies and half naked golddiggers...

That's (PARTLY) why they (average black men) would choose Sheryl over Beyounce.

And as I said before, we're focusing on the color-struck black men now because, unlike the the past, the media has made their images just as dangerous and influential as all the the other ignorant, violent, gun toting, images of black men.

All --

I'm not saying I think Beyounce, Vanessa Williams, and Ahanti are not beautiful or are unattractive, I'm saying, COMPARED TO AUTHENTIC EUROPEAN BEAUTIES, they are indeed watered-down and unattractive -- which is why we'd rather represent ourselves with our own unique authentic beauties.

Tonya





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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 02:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, Moonsigns, forgive me if I confused you -- I said "I'm good at picking my street fights", which is a saracstic way of saying that I'm not going to fight with you over something so petty.

I'll try to keep my street lingo to a minimum since you obviously can't hang....ooops I did it again, lol....

Tonya
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Kola_boof
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 02:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, it all sounds good Tonya, but I think you'd better get to having some babies, chal.

Seriously.

Because one thing I notice in Black America is that those sistas with the most knowledge and the best ideas about how to save our people----are the ones not producing children who can implement and secure these ideals.

Moon has tons of kids who think just like her and her husband.

MOST BLACK MEN procreate with the lightest female they can get---even when that's chocolate instead of blue black.

This can't change until Black women realize the POWER SOURCE and how to destroy it---which is through creating a MASS of children who refute White Supremacy. MOST black children, both here and abroad, embrace white supremacy, because it's "American".

We need conscious black mothers to produce babies and to plant womanism along with blackness---otherwise, you just get Rasta boys who love black people as long as they're not black and female.












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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 02:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And to set things straight -- Im not talking about Beyouce vs. most black or white women, because I know that most women (black, white or other) are not perfect looking or physically beautiful -- that's a fact. Having said that, it's important to point out that the ones who are young, perfect looking and authenticly beautiful (black or white) have all of the "three qualities" Beyounce has, and in most cases, plus some.

Tonya
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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 02:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hear you, Kola.
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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 03:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola?

"MOST BLACK MEN procreate with the lightest female they can get---even when that's chocolate instead of blue black."

I know this has always been the case, but isn't it true that the more time passes and the more influence (e.g. the media) is thrown their way, more and more black men become that way...

Or...

Are we already at the point where they're virtually all that way?

I almost don't want you to answer that question, LMBAO!

Tonya

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Moonsigns
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 04:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

I totally disagree with you regarding the qualities of "average men". 70% of Black children are born to single mothers--fathered by MEN. 60% of married MEN cheat. Women, YOUNG women, are the fastest growing group of people that are infected with HIV--mostly by sex with MEN. Such unfortunate and high stats aren't the reflection of men who, I'd say, are respectable, god fearing, hard working and responsible.

I still disagree with you regarding what "average men" want. I think WM would choose Brittany over Diana. And, if they didn't, they'd still seek out the Brittany and Beyounce types for their affairs and other freakish desires--because average men are just not what you think they are. If they were our culture wouldn't be in decaying as it is.

"No, Moonsigns, the average man is respectable, god fearing, hard working and responsible--it's apparent they're not like the kind of men you're used to."-Tonya

What a stupid, ignorant, and naive thing to write, Tonya. After over a decade of being married, I've seen the good, bad and ugly in my own relationship/marriage as well as other women I know (most of which are married (or divorced) with children. Watching life unfold around me (in the lives of women I know) has been (and is) humbling--and I've had my own share of humbling experiences. All in all, women (in general) have to watch their back. If you haven't learned that by this point in your life, I feel real sorry for you. Don't let wishful thinking make you delusional.


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Kola
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 04:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

a number of factors SHAPE black children's view of themselves---the media is a major one.

I really wish you would get Marita's Golden book "Don't Play In the Sun" and read it.

Because it shows how black mothers have "accidentally" HELPED the media to destroy their children---always.

Black men want to be what America tells them a real man is. Because they're Americans.

And the rest of the world wants to be like America.

And America HATES "black people"--which is why it encourages them to change into something else, to dilute themselves and breed themselves out, and women like Moonsigns are the White Cells that make it possible.

She claims her children are "black", because the society gives her no choice right now, but the day will come when everyone will be forced to see that her children are not black.









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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 06:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moonsigns:

Later in your post you said: "What a stupid, ignorant, and naive thing to write, Tonya."

You were mostly refering to the fact that, "60% of married MEN cheat."

Me:

It depends on how you see/look at it, Moonie. Many people view men like Jesse Jackson, Strom Thurmond, and Thomas Jefferson as god fearing, respectable, responsible, and hard working honorable men.

moonsigns

"Watching life unfold around me (in the lives of women I know) has been (and is) humbling--and I've had my own share of humbling experiences."

Me:

That proves my point -- it depends on how you see/look at it.

Moonsigns:

"I still disagree with you regarding what "average men" want. I think WM would choose Brittany over Diana. And, if they didn't, they'd still seek out the Brittany and Beyounce types for their affairs and other freakish desires--"

Me:

I already said that average white/black men only want to SEX/FUCK those whores. That was one of my point(s), remember?

Moonsigns:

"...because average men are just not what you think they are."

Again, that was one of my points, so that's exactly what I think/thought they are/were -- re-read my post.

Kola's right -- you are simple.

Tonya
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 08:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

I wasn't referring to the 60% of married men that cheat when I wrote how stupid, ignorant, and naive your comment was. I was referring to the backhanded way you suggested that I don't know respectable, god fearing, hardworking and responsible men.

"No, Moonsigns, the average man is respectable, god fearing, hardworking and responsible--it's apparent they're not like the kind of men you're used to."-TONYA

Re-read what you wrote.

Regarding how you said the average white/black men only want to sex/f*** "those whores"--it actually proves my point--they will always (utlimately) choose what they are naturally drawn to based on science.

MOONSIGNS wrote:
"because average men are just not what you think they are."

TONYA wrote:
"Again, that was one of my points, so that's exactly what I think/though they are/were."

No, that was never your point. You made a blanket statment that "average men" are "respectable, god fearing, hardworking, and responsible" and implied they are men I'm (apparently) not used to--and they are men who would choose "A Queen" (i.e. Cheryl over Beyounce).

After the fact, you wrote that men like Jesse Jackson and Thomas Jefferson are "average men" who possess the qualities you mentioned. If you happen to consider those men "average" by your definition, I can say this, you're right, it is all about perception.

Call me simple. I call you delusional.



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kool
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 10:23 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LMAO....Moon....

You beat her hands down...IN MY EYES
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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 10:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moonsigns:

I wasn't referring to the 60% of married men that cheat when I wrote how stupid, ignorant, and naive your comment was. I was referring to the backhanded way you suggested that I don't know respectable, god fearing, hardworking and responsible men.

Me -- Moonsigns here's your comments:

What a stupid, ignorant, and naive thing to write, Tonya. After over a decade of being married, I've seen the good, bad and ugly in my own relationship/marriage as well as other women I know (most of which are married (or divorced) with children. Watching life unfold around me (in the lives of women I know) has been (and is) humbling--and I've had my own share of humbling experiences. All in all, women (in general) have to watch their back. If you haven't learned that by this point in your life, I feel real sorry for you. Don't let wishful thinking make you delusional.

Were in this paragraph are you complaining about my "backhanded suggestions" and where in this paragraph do you bitch or plead your case about knowing responsible, respectable, hard working, god fearing men? The only thing you talked about was the fact that you're a married woman who's in a sorry ass relationship and know a lot of married/divorced women who are/were also in sorry ass relationships. Then you imply that you know what you're talking about because of all the sorry shit you've whtnesse/experienced and lastly, *You* claim to feel *SORRY* for *ME* and my *wishful thinking*.

Also - when you start your post by talking about married men who cheats and then end it by bitchin/complaining about your marriage and the marriages of all the sorry ass women you know - how the hell else am I suppose to take it?


Moonsigns:

After the fact, you wrote that men like Jesse Jackson and Thomas Jefferson are "average men" who possess the qualities you mentioned. If you happen to consider those men "average" by your definition, I can say this, you're right, it is all about perception.

Me:

I never once said they we're average because that would be absurd -- these are extraordinary men -- one's a former president, one's a former senator and one is a very influential civil rights leader, so I would never consider any of them average. I simply was disputing your apparent assumption that responsible, respectable, god fearing, and hard working men don't cheat and like I said, It depends on how you look at it.

Moonsigns:

No, that was never your point. You made a blanket statment that "average men" are "respectable, god fearing, hardworking, and responsible" and implied they are men I'm (apparently) not used to--and they are men who would choose "A Queen" (i.e. Cheryl over Beyounce).

Me -- read a portion of what I wrote:

Like white men - they're human, they love, they care, they're emotional, and they're searching for someone who feels the same way; therefore - like most white men - they prefer to LOVE Queens and Princesses much more than SEXING whores, hoochies and half naked golddiggers...

Notice the last line: "...they prefer to LOVE Queens and Princesses much more than SEXING whores, hoochies and half naked golddiggers..."

Sexing means Fucking. They prefer to love Queens (good/average women) much more than sexing (Fucking) whores... Can't get no clearer than that - Moonie.

Moonsign:

Regarding how you said the average white/black men only want to sex/f*** "those whores"--it actually proves my point--they will always (utlimately) choose what they are naturally drawn to based on science.

Me:

What kind of science you into? Voodoo science? Ooooh Shit -- your name is "MOOOOONSIGNS" ain't it....LMBAO....on the flo.....can't get up...

Get the fuck out of here, MOONIE!

AIN'T FALLIN FOR THE VOODOO!!!!

Tonya










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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 11:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And furthermore, you NEVER complained about my backhandedness nor did you acknowledge knowing responsible, respectable, hard working and god fearing men throughout your ENTIRE post. So don't give me that shit about me taking you the wrong way.

Tonya
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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 11:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kool -- you need to shut the fuck up if you're a black man -- I spent most of the time arguing on your behalf, and believe me, that shit was hard as a mutha fucker to do -- I had to embellish a whole lot of shit -- make wine out of water.

So if you're a black man, you need to stop!

Tonya



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Blkamericanking
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 07:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think it's white women like Moonsigns who wants to keep black men and black women from being together. Moonsigns is probably fat, white trash. White women just don't seem to realize that black men are only with white women because they can get away with a bunch of BS with white women, that black women wouldn't dare put up with.
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Tonya
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 04:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blackamericanking - you are so loved!
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Deebaby
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 08:48 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nicole Kidman - no comment (she ain't worth one)

___

I think HALLE is cute, not the "raving beauty" she's media-made out to be.
___

I don't think ASHANTI is particularly attractive, but she got her little cute shape going on and is sexy in her videos.
____

I think Vanessa Williams is pretty, although it appears she may be missing the "Black don't Crack" factor...*s*
but she's still pretty.
___

ALEK is presented to us as a beautiful Black woman by the white media...

NO, wait,

she's more readily referred to as "EXOTIC"

- as the white media is hardpressed to refer to Black/African woman as pretty or beautiful.

The "pretty" and "beautiful" labels are reserved for white women and less than a handful of Black woman who are what they call "fair-complexioned" and who have "sharp" features.

Alek and Iman and Naomi Campbell are EXOTIC.

Dat mean white men wanna fuck 'em, right?
(or watch their wives fuck 'em.)


The media would have us believe that a Naomi Campbell stands out amongst Black women?
And who's that other Black model I've seen wearing a short afro? What's her name?
Hell, she and Naomi (sans the hours of make-up and hair weaving) look like the average Black high-school girl population.

So why ain't all the home gurls in the magazines and television commercials? On the big screen?

More importantly, why do we accept that shit and allow the media to tell us who's pleasing to the eye?

These are the few Black woman that white folk "okay-ed", so Black folk go ahead on and put them in their Black magazines.
___


BTW,

BEYONCE -

yall back up offa B

I ain't gay, but...

das a bad bytch.

(Kola, we just agree son some things...*s*)

I, too, think Beyonce is gorgeous.

pretty, sexy, can sing and dance her ass off. Her live performances are upbeat, intense, colorful, well-choreographed.
She presents herself fabulously.

Also, in person, without all the TV make-up and those dreadful weaves...Beyonce's a pretty girl with a lively and warm spirit.

She DOES have the "fly girl entertainment complexion connection", but she's not exactly the Euro-standard of pretty Black.
(i.e., she'd be thinner, lighter, etc.
more like a Halle, who I think pales (pun intended) in comparison to Beyonce.


and

my girl Angela Bassett kicks ass!

All these young girls should be paying attention to how she keeps herself and her body together.

Besides being TOPS at her acting game --the Denzel equivalent, can play any role, transform into anybody--

she IS beautiful.

Beautiful skin, eyes, smile, physique

Have we ever heard the media refer to Angela as beautiful?

I don't recall...

Hell, not even Black folk do because the media DICTATES TO US who's beautiful, even amongst ourselves.

And we buy it - that beautiful/pretty/sexy Black woman are few and far between.

The media will never tell us, will continue to do all it can to DIS-suade us and, it seems, we'll never never figure out for ourselves that beauty amongst us is NOT the exception, it's the RULE.


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Deebaby
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 09:14 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, what happened to my other post?

Anyway,

CORRECTION

should say:

Kola, we just agree on SOME things (not son things)



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Moonsigns
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 10:25 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

I know you have shared that you are childless, however, if you truly possessed any relational skills/experience, you wouldn't be as ignornat as you are regarding relationships--especially long-term, marital relationships.

When I commented on how I've witnessed the good, bad and ugly in my marriage as well as other women's marriages, I find it ironic how you RAN with the "bad and ugly". You quickly jumped to conclusions/assumptions, never once considering that for every woman, the "bad and ugly" does not always equate to a cheating spouse or absent father. Silly rabbit. So, see, I wasn't bytchin' and complainin' about marriage (or other women's marriages), just sharing the realities of life and serious relationship--not just have a coke, phuck and a smile kind *wink, wink*--sharing how a woman must be mindful and humble about what men she considers to be God fearing, respectable, hard working and responsible.
Again, I find it so ironic how you never once considered the good. I wonder why? Don't bother to answer, I already know why. And, all the shyt was backhanded. You know it and so do I.

Let's go back to the first post.
MOONSIGNS:
"While I'm not saying it's fair, I think it's wishful thinking to suggest that the average man wouldn't choose Beyounce over most other Black women.
(The rest of the paragraph discusses the science as to why)

TONYA's reply:
No, Moonsigns, the average man is god fearing, respectable, hard working, and responsible--it's apparent they're not the kind of men you're used to, so try looking at it this way:"

In the next couple posts, you gave names of men (Jesse Jackson....Thomas Jefferson) who are considered to have qualities of "average men"--never disputing that they AREN'T average. In the following posts, you now say these men aren't average, they're now "extradinary"--LOL--Make up your mind, Tonya.

You write that "average men"--God fearing, respectable, hard working and responsible men-- would rather love "Queens and Princesses" (Cheryl) than sex hoochies, golddiggers (etc.) (Beyounce)--and I say you're still wrong. Men like this, though they hold "position" and are (generally) wealthy, aren't God fearing, respectable, hard working and responsible men. They're lying cheats who are self-serving. They love (Haha) the "queens and princesses" for show and sex the "whores" (Haha) because they, based on science, will ALWAYS, always go back to what they are drawn to. And, that doesn't mean the "whores" are really whores--they have the youth, shapely body and beatifully structured face that they are BIOLOGICALLY drawn to. That's the SCIECNE behind it, Tonya, not my username for this site. Me and my username have nothing to do with the discssion/debate at hand. Come better than that or don't come at all.


Have a super, super day--I'll be back later to play :-)








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Tonya
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 08:52 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moonsigns--

First, we need to define what constitutes “the average man”. The problem isn’t that I’m incorrect, nor is it that you are incorrect -- it’s that we’re arguing about two different perspectives, which makes it hard to see which one of us is more accurate. I believe the discrepancy is due to your not knowing/recalling any of the type of men I’m defining. I can try to refrain from that theory as much as possible since it seems to ruffle your feathers, but it’s going to be hard, because it really is the main reason for our disagreement. For example, had you been aware of this particular class of men, you would’ve noticed the discrepancy after reading my “Get My Point(s)” post. It plainly points out where we differ. Coincidentally, after reading some of what you’ve said since then, I not only understand where we differ, I understand why. I’ll try to explain.

When you use the word “average” regarding men, you are more so speaking in terms of numbers; for example, out of a group of ten people, nine of them may prefer to have a green salad instead of an oven baked ham. That means the majority (9 out of 10) probably prefers green salads. But what if the group is one where the overwhelming majority are vegetarians? It would make a lot of sense for most of them to choose the salad over the ham. Given that example, it’s clear to see that your definition of “the average man” could be the result of your being primarily exposed to the men you define as those who PREFER whores. In other words, you know too many whoremongers. If this is the case, your perception/definition of “the average man” is probably tainted by your constant exposure those kind of men.

My definition, however, is not based on numbers -- it’s based on everyday (black) people. Since these people usually go unnoticed, they're not always asked about their opinions on mainstream issues. For this reason, it would not be easy for some people to determine whether the majority of them prefer the salad or the ham. I, on the other hand, would have a much clearer assessment of that since I am an every day (black) person, myself. Who/what I am and my constant exposure to evey day (black) people, has allowed me to gain a very unique and accurate perception of this sub-culture. Of course, this position doesn’t give me the ability to present anything as hardcore as numbers - that would require a survey of some sort - but it does give me the capability to define average (every day)black people more accurately than a white woman, for example. So when I say that the average (black) man is responsible, hard working, god fearing, and respectable, it’s because I share a life with him, a community, and a pain like no other -- I love him, I care for him, I know him. When he gets home from working eight, ten, or twelve hour days, he grabs a cold drink, watches television, or plays video games until dinner is done. He may even decide to get his woman involved by throwing on a classic Motown CD - then he'll try mercilessly to steal her heart by singing his tired, hopeless, drawn-out remake of an old Aretha Franklin, Smokey Robinson, or Marvin Gay song. He’s not in bars/nightclubs looking for hoochies - he isn’t with his friends gambling - and he ain’t up all night yelling at his baby mamma-- he’s getting on my last dayum nerve, thinking he can convince me that ANY one of Kevin Garnett’s moves is even close to being as impressive as Vince Carter’s historic slam dunk, LMBAO!!! But No, he’s not perfect, especially when he tries to pretend he’s not a heathen by begging me to lie to his momma -- telling her that his ass was in church every Sunday, knowing damn well his sinnin behind was at home. And no, he is definitely not perfect when those eyes get to roving where they don’t belong, but as long he keeps proving the world wrong and as long as he gives me reason to believe that those eyes and that heart belongs to me -- "damn near perfect" and that crocked little smile will always be good enough for me. That’s my definition of the average (black) man -- he‘s not a thug, not a dealer, not a hustler, a pimp, or a playah. He’s hard working, god fearing, respectable, responsible, loving, caring -- he's average.

Obviously, I can't say that I’m not aware of the kind of men you refer to, in fact, many of my current and childhood friends are like them, but aside from knowing those type of men, I usually find myself being surrounded by those who fit my definition of the average (black) man. That's why I believe that the majority of men are like that. Again, even though our definitions differ, we are definitely both correct. But when it comes to which one of is more accurate, that depends largely on what shapes our two very different perspectives.

Now, to your last post---

Moonsigns said:

When I commented on how I've witnessed the good, bad and ugly in my marriage as well as other women's marriages, I find it ironic how you RAN with the "bad and ugly"... I find it so ironic how you never once considered the good. I wonder why?

Me:

I know you told me not to answer, but this one was too easy and it could end up being beneficial to you as well: Here’s a few dictionary definitions of the word “ugly”---

angry: characterized by anger or hostility
an ugly mood

potentially violent: threatening or involving violence
Things were turning ugly.

ill-mannered: discourteous or rude

Me:

In EVERY relationship there is the good and the bad, but when it starts getting ugly -- it’s no longer a relationship, sweetie. If you didn’t mean it that way, you shouldn’t have said it that way -- if it was a Freudian slip, I encourage you to look into it -- but if your relationship/marriage is anywhere near how you described it, it ain't just ugly, it's sorry, and it ain't right.

Moonsigns said:

…if you truly possessed any relational skills/experience, you wouldn't be as ignornat as you are regarding relationships--especially long-term, marital relationships.

Me:

Yes, I'm ignorant to what you described and, in many ways, I wish to remain that way.

Moonsigns said:


In the next couple posts, you gave names of men (Jesse Jackson....Thomas Jefferson) who are considered to have qualities of "average men"--never disputing that they AREN'T average.

Me:

I don’t have to DISPUTE the fact that they are not average, because I NEVER SAID THEY WERE, to begin with. I’ll say it again: I simply was disputing your apparent assumption that responsible, respectable, god fearing, hard working men don't cheat, aaannnddd, I was trying to get you to understand that it depends on how you (or anyone) look at it. I ,personally, am not a fan of any of those men, but there are millions of blacks and many more whites who would strongly disagree.

Moonsigns said:

You write that "average men"--God fearing, respectable, hard working and responsible men-- would rather love "Queens and Princesses" (Cheryl) than sex hoochies, golddiggers (etc.) (Beyounce)--and I say you're still wrong. Men like this, though they hold "position" and are (generally) wealthy, aren't God fearing, respectable, hard working and responsible men. They're lying cheats who are self-serving. They love (Haha) the "queens and princesses" for show and sex the "whores" (Haha) because they, based on science, will ALWAYS, always go back to what they are drawn to. And, that doesn't mean the "whores" are really whores--they have the youth, shapely body and beatifully structured face that they are BIOLOGICALLY drawn to. That's the SCIECNE behind it, Tonya, not my username for this site. Me and my username have nothing to do with the discssion/debate at hand. Come better than that or don't come at all.

Me:

First of all, who are you talking about when you say “Men like this, though they hold "position" and are (generally) wealthy, aren't God fearing, respectable, hard working and responsible men. They're lying cheats who are self-serving.”?

Because if you are referring to men like, Jesse Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, and Strom Thurmond, then I’ve finally found someone who is more dense than I am...

I NEVER SAID THEY WERE AVERAGE MEN.

Secondly, based on your nutty ass “science”, men are destined to end up with any/every whore who decides to swallow it, while being hosed down in the back of the neighborhood gas station. That’s not logic. If it were, we’d have a whole lot of married women on this board who are pissed off at her no-good, low-down, cheatin, wanna fuck/sex Paris/Britney/Jessica/Beyounce, self-hating, color-struck, retard of a man . But as it stands, we only have you. So that proves that your “science” is bullshit.

Lastly, your out-look on men suggests that either you’re watching too much MTV, or you associate with too many whores and whore sexin men. I can’t think of no other reason why you would believe that most men are whore lovers -- not sexers, hit and runners, or “I‘m confused so um just gone marry the ho!” -- but true and dedicated lovers...don't get it... If your world is filled with those type of men, then your in the wrong world, period. Normally I would end this post by saying something snide and probably a bit cut-throat, but I find a lot of what you’re saying disturbing and cause for concern, so Ill end it by saying…

Stay Well…

Tonya


















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Moonsigns
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 01:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

The phrase, "The good, the bad and the ugly" is used when describing both the good and bad of anything that pertains to life. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not that ignorant. So, you can put to sleep all the technical bullshyt. Just another backhanded attempt to suggest I'm not only with a cheater, but a violent abuser. *yawn*

READ any scientific material regarding what attracts human males to human females and that will better help you understand the point I've tried to convey.


TONYA WROTE:
"If your world is filled with those type of men, then your in the wrong world, period."

MOONSIGNS"
What I provided were stats of human, male, behavior--men living in the United States. Considering we both live in th same country (the same "world"), I'd say all women have to equally be concerned (and have humility) regarding such a grim reality. Now, if you think your so untouchable and that my life must be so horrible simply based on the merit I brought those stats into the discussion at hand, I'll remain steadfast in belief that you're delusional.


TONYA WROTE:
"Normally I would end this post by saying something snide and proably a bit cut-throat"...

Ummmm. It ain't that serious--sorry you think it is. But, hey, if you have to cut loose, type till your fingers bleed. It's your wasted time.





Like I give a shyt.


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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 06:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, fuck you, bitch!

You know what -- You're right, I wasted too much time on you, but I thought that was going to be the last time discussing this topic with you and I wanted to end it on a peaceable level -- but you fucked up, you stank ass whore.

Don't get mad at me because you married a color-struck whoremonger.

Ain't my fault, bitch!

Maybe you shouldn't be such a slut and a whore.

Besides, you need to be stepping to his ass. Whats all that shit you were talking about how "we women need to stick together"??? I sat there and tried to help you out and this is how you repay me???

Ok. bitch -- I got your number!

See if I try to help your sorry ass out anymore!

I wish you and your whoremonger the best of luck!

Tonya
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 07:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

How boring.

*yawn*









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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 09:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't get mad at me because you married a color-struck whoremonger.

Your problems are of your own makings.

Ain't my fault.

Maybe if you weren't a whore, you wouldn't attract whoremongers.

I wish you and your whoremonger the best of luck!

Tonya
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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 09:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Better now, I hope so because you really need to get it.

Tonya
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 10:02 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, Tonya. You sound as crazy as Kola. How does that saying go?!!!!.....Birds of a feather.....

Umm..... Yeah. That's it.


*teehee*

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Tonya
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatever...

Now that you got my point(s), I'll meet you on another thread. But keep in mind, Moonie, every time you try to throw your hatred on me/my people, you're going to get reminded about what your problems are really about.

Watch your mouth.

Tonya
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 12:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

The point you've made to me is crystal clear. Your logic is irrational and your emotions are simply out of control. Unfortunately, both are caused by an overactive imagination.

Such a sad thing.



LMAO!
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Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 08:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please Moonsigns. Why on earth would *my* emotions be involved? Nothing we discussed revealed anything about me; and furthermore, I could care less about your perspective, your lifestyle, or any of what you angrily divulged.
All of which, by the way, left nothing to the imagination. Although I did say that there's cause for concern, I never once said that I was concerned, so the only thing that is out of control is your misguided ego.

You Said:

The point you've made to me is crystal clear.

I Say:

Then you understand.

Tonya
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Moonsigns
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 03:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MOONSIGNS wrote:
"The point you've made to me is crystal clear. Your logic is irrational and your emoitons are simply out of control. Unfortunately, both are caused by an overaactive imagination."


TONYA wrote:
"Then you understand."


MOONSIGNS:
Yes, more than ever.




Btw, tell Kola I said 'hi'--please don't forget!!!!



LMphatWAO!














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Tonya
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 06:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...The recycling of victoriously and lucidly negated garbage... How dim....

...Well, I realize that it's senseless to keep digging when it's apparent you've made your point, AND, you ended up on top.... I'm used to it, but still, I'll sashay a bit in triumph and gracefully take a bow --

Then I'll meet you on another thread...

LMBAO!!!

Tonya
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Aglae
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 10:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you don't think Halle Berry looks black you should have seen her before she had the nose job.
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 01:08 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An African professor compared his skin color to a black bucket and asked the class which is black, his skin or the bucket and the class replied the bucket is. In his case, the people often referred to as black are not black, lol. In his case, Halle is not black and all the brownish skin colored people are not black. And his definition of white is not white people, but the color white. Just thought I would mention this, lol..
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Africanqueen
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Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 01:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

Have you come up with a name for the baby yet? I hope you're doing well :-). If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to call me.

-nyibol
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Aaron Sailor
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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 05:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,
I feel so sorry for you and the millions of other negros out their with this white supremacist stantard of beauty. If you think that Beyonce and Ashanti is unattractive and you think that Paris(man in a dress) Hilton is beautiful then you are seriously suffering from the lilly white complex. I think that it is sad when black people like you cannot look in the mirror and see yourselves as beautiful because you let the racist white media corrupt your standard of beauty. I think you need to learn to love yourself.
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